Nietzschian anarchist?

[Kropotesta]

I have encountered a "Nietzschian anarchist" who believes that a anarchist society will give the suitable surroundings for true leaders to rise and take control. bollocks I know but is this an actual idea?
Plus what was Nietzsche's ideas and viewpoints? thanks.

[AGITprop]

I have encountered a "Nietzschian anarchist" who believes that a anarchist society will give the suitable surroundings for true leaders to rise and take control. bollocks I know but is this an actual idea?
Plus what was Nietzsche's ideas and viewpoints? thanks.

im not sure exactly what nietzche believed, but he was like a proto-fascist if im not mistaken.

[Demogorgon]

Nietzche's influence on popular culture means that all sorts of strange dieas associated with him have taken root. They should all be taken with a pinch of salt.

[Winter]

I have encountered a "Nietzschian anarchist" who believes that a anarchist society will give the suitable surroundings for true leaders to rise and take control. bollocks I know but is this an actual idea?
Plus what was Nietzsche's ideas and viewpoints? thanks.

lol, sounds like survival of the fittest. So basically we should live in a primitive barbarism where the strongest will rise to power? Interesting. Sounds like if this was a true idea of his he valued de-evolution.

[Dimentio]

Fascists liked Nietzsche, but Nietzsche never talked about politics. Yes, he was an individualist and he despised mass-movements (amongst them nationalists).

Nietzsche's philosophy in short was that the Übermensch rather than a race was a person who did not make up her judgement on the opinions of others, but on her own will, and that she should live for her own sake.

[Kropotesta]

so they are effectively a social darwinist?
funny thing is, they are hardly a type of person that would thrive under a survival of the fittest scenario

[temp918273]

Nihilist anarchists have a long history of ridiculous ideas, but this one is rather odd. I wouldn't pin this "Nietzschian anarchist" as an 'anarchist' but a social darwinist who'd like to see some kind of year zero.

Sounds to me as if the person is advocating a return to some sort of barbarism as another poster above me stated.

[Kropotesta]

yeah i said they were a social darwinist but then they got upset haha. I don't think this person has a very good grasp of anarchism anyways

[Everyday Anarchy]

Nihilist anarchists have a long history of ridiculous ideas, but this one is rather odd.As far as I know, nihilists despise Nietzche. He worked quite a bit on conquering nihilism and how it is detrimental to society. He often described Christianity as a form of nihilism in his works against Christianity.
im not sure exactly what nietzche believed, but he was like a proto-fascist if im not mistaken.Actually, the whole Nietzche-Fascism link came after his death. His fascist sister (I think it was) distorted his works and the meanings to support the rise of Nazism.

As for this "Nietzchean Anarchist," it's a load of bull. He is certainly not an anarchist in any sense of the word. Social Darwinism is right on spot in describing this person.
Sounds like they favor a total collapse of the system so that new, strong leaders can emerge.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Second, many silly, silly things have been attributed to Nietzsche after he died. This whole "apologist for fascism" and "proto Nazi" business is nonsense. For one, Nietzsche, as a diehard individualist, despised mass movements of all kinds, whether religious, cultural, or political (as one poster already mentioned.)

Additionally, while Nietzsche did indeed believe that some people could become better than others, this had absolutely nothing to do with their race, ethnicity, culture, or various other factors. The "Ubermensche" (a somewhat overemphasized aspect of his thought, I believe) were better than the slavish humans who had no concept of individual thought or critical thought, but the important thing was that anyone could become an Ubermensche.

This, clearly, was in sharp contrast with Hitler and the Nazis, who believed that the German people were the Ubermenshe, and as such had carte blanche to do whatever the hell they wanted. In fact, in Nietzsche's brief life, he criticized people for anti-Semitism. His ***** of a sister, who actually was a fascist, perverted his writings into travesty.

Nietzsche despised Judeo Christian morality, and had admiration for the ancient Greeks. He basically believed that strength should be praised, and weakness overcome (which stands in contrast to the belief that the "meek shall inherit the Earth", so to speak.)

I'm an individualist, but I also don't buy all of what Nietzsche is saying, as I am socialist as well. However, I do think that he makes certain valid points that need to be analyzed. Anarchists have a history, in general, of taking Nietzsche into account in their writings: Emma Goldman was a fan, for example.

However, like I said, I don't think there really is such a thing as a "Nietzschean anarchist".

[apathy maybe]

Personally, in my brief encounters with Nietzsche I didn't find anything particularly anarchistic, or even very interesting. (Well, actually I love the quote about the abyss.)

And I certainly didn't find anything fascistic (which is a link, as pointed out, made by his sister).


I have encountered a "Nietzschian anarchist" who believes that a anarchist society will give the suitable surroundings for true leaders to rise and take control. bollocks I know but is this an actual idea?Well, if such a thing did happen, it would stop being an anarchist society. If they support such a thing, then they aren't an anarchist.

[Kropotesta]

their claim to being an anarchist as they advocate a anarchist society as, they think, appartently it would lead to "true leaders" being produced.

[Black Dagger]

How do they envision the 'true leaders' taking control? What will they do? Re-establish authority? A new class system? A new state?

None of that is compatible with anarchism.

Anarchists aren't merely people who want to create anarchy - anarchism a political theory tied to very specific criticisms of hierarchy and authority - if this person thinks that the 'true leaders' should reestablish either of these things then they cannot be an anarchist.

[MrT]

im not sure exactly what nietzche believed, but he was like a proto-fascist if im not mistaken.

I'm not sure fascist is the right word. There does seem to be traces of fascism or authoritarianism within his work. For instance, in his 'Beyond good and evil,' aphorism 61, he talks about his ideal philosopher,

'this philosopher, in his efforts to improve education and breeding, will make use of religions just as he makes use of the political and economic circumstances of his time. The influence that can be exerted with the help of religion is an influence for selecting and breeding.'

More significantly, 'to the vast majority who exist to serve and be generally useful and mustexist only to that end, religion offers an inestimable contentment with their own situation and nature... There is perhaps nothing so admirable about Christianity and Buddhism as their skill in showing even the lowliest people how piety can place them within an illusory higher order of things and thus enable them to remain content with the real order, withing which they certainly live a harsh (and this harshness is exactly what's needed!) life.'

This method of controlling the majority is a means of supporting the strongest, and distancing them, or sectioning them off from what Nietzsche regards as the more inferior, who, if left to their own devices, would corrupt the great with their 'slave morality.' Nietzsche uses the case of Pascal to demonstrate this potentially corruptive influence of herd morality and all the things that go with it.
Seems slightly fascist, as well as Orwellian and Machiavellian to me..

[Holden Caulfield]

Nietzsche was NOT a fascist, the nazis did use some quotes of his work to make political points but they were taken the wrong way and out of context,

Nietzsches work is obviously socialist, he may not be as radical as we often are but he was socialist, he often speaks of socialist principles in his works either directly or through metaphor,

[MrT]

Additionally, while Nietzsche did indeed believe that some people could become better than others, this had absolutely nothing to do with their race, ethnicity, culture, or various other factors. The "Ubermensche" (a somewhat overemphasized aspect of his thought, I believe) were better than the slavish humans who had no concept of individual thought or critical thought, but the important thing was that anyone could become an Ubermensche.

I point you to aphorism 264 in his 'Beyond Good and Evil,' 'It is simply impossible that a person would not have his parents' and forefathers' qualities and preferances in his body-whatever appearences may say to the contrary. This is a problem of race.'

[MrT]

Nietzsche was NOT a fascist, the nazis did use some quotes of his work to make political points but they were taken the wrong way and out of context,

Nietzsches work is obviously socialist, he may not be as radical as we often are but he was socialist, he often speaks of socialist principles in his works either directly or through metaphor,

Care to offer some evidence for that claim?

[Cryotank Screams]

Nietzsche was NOT a fascist, the nazis did use some quotes of his work to make political points but they were taken the wrong way and out of context,

They also should have read The Case of Wagner: A Musicians' Problem.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I point you to aphorism 264 in his 'Beyond Good and Evil,' 'It is simply impossible that a person would not have his parents' and forefathers' qualities and preferances in his body-whatever appearences may say to the contrary. This is a problem of race.'

This quote seems to be more about evolution than anything. I'm not exactly sure how literally to take the word "race"; I believe he spoke of the Ubermensche as a race as well, but they weren't a race in any actual sense of the word.

I've never really anything of his that has come across as racist or fascistic. But hey, I could be wrong; the only work of his that I've really slogged through all the way was Thus Spoke Zarathustra.

[Black-Star]

As for this "Nietzchean Anarchist," it's a load of bull. He is certainly not an anarchist in any sense of the word. Social Darwinism is right on spot in describing this person.
Sounds like they favor a total collapse of the system so that new, strong leaders can emerge.

I hope your not implying that darwinism propagates racism, as this is a common misconception that i found common amongst people of the left. Much of Darwins writings have been used as a platform by racists as an excuse to explain race hate as "survival of the fittest." (The fittest being the race that outlasts the others, which they believe to be the white race). Most social darwinist ideas were formed by Herbert spencer (a racist) who based his ideas loosely on Charles Darwins theory of natural selection. Darwin himself didnt avocate such ideas himself. Obviously this Nietzchean Anarchist is concerned with bourgeoisie individualism and egotism rather than anything constructive.

[Everyday Anarchy]

I hope your not implying that darwinism propagates racism, as this is a common misconception that i found common amongst people of the left. Much of Darwins writings have been used as a platform by racists as an excuse to explain race hate as "survival of the fittest." (The fittest being the race that outlasts the others, which they believe to be the white race). Most social darwinist ideas were formed by Herbert spencer (a racist) who based his ideas loosely on Charles Darwins theory of natural selection. Darwin himself didnt avocate such ideas himself. Obviously this Nietzchean Anarchist is concerned with bourgeoisie individualism and egotism rather than anything constructive.I wasn't implying anything about racism. Also, Social Darwinism is hardly connected to Charles Darwin himself. I meant it as a highly individualist or "might is right" type ideology.

[Black-Star]

haha good, im glad that was cleared up, i've had no end of arguments with so called leftists claiming "Charles Darwins theory of Social Darwinism is racist"
Despite the fact it has nothing to do with Charles Darwin at all