Gun Control

[Imperial Power]

The communist country is so weak in public support that to maintain power they do not allow their citizens to own guns. With such a sorry state affairs in communist countries it's not suprising they do everyhting possible to prevent the people, which they are supposed to represent, from rising up. Just another form of oppresion used to maintain control in an unjest political system. It's interesting that no former members of a communist country are on the board. To bad you can't ask them how the liked it.

[peaccenicked]

look comrade if the majority people want guns they will get them even if they have to loot army stores no matter who the government is.

[Moskitto]

Britain doesn't allow it's subjects to own guns, Japan doesn't allow it's citizens to own guns. Right to bear arms being freedom is an American concept, think universally.

Do you actually know anyone who lived under communism? Because I do, he likes wearing his East German army hat and mentioned flying back to see his aunt during the 70s, They knew about the loch ness monster even, Then he just came straight back over here.

(Edited by Moskitto at 12:48 am on Feb. 14, 2002)

[Jurhael]

Communists can't have a violent revoltion WITHOUT GUNS, IP. They wouldn't try to get rid of something that could HELP them!

Christ...

[PunkRawker677]

The gun control topic has already been dicussed. but, ill say again.

Do you want everyone running around with guns?
Does that make the world safer?

I would certainly feel better knowing the ppl lurking around the streets DID NOT have guns..

and as peaccenicked said.. if someone really wants the guns, they will get them. Che didn't have an unlimited amount of ammo or guns, so he looted military bases.

[Xvall]

IN 1983 HANDGUNS KILLED -

35 people in Japan,
8 in Great Britain
27 in Switzerland
6 in Canada
7 in Sweeden
10 in Austria
and 9,014 in the United States of America...

Think about it...

- Drake Dracoli

[Nateddi]

LOL, the crime rate in michigan is almost 2 times higher than the crime rate in all of canada!

[Reuben]

Actually in cuba tyhy have distributed weapons to factories and universities in case of a U.S. invasion.You have obviously forgottwn that when the U.S. invaded the bay of pigs, the local civilian population was armed, and they chose to defend the revolution.

For some reason IP hasn't got back to us on this argument. I wonder why?

he does seem very good at picking and choosing which topics he responds to and which points he choses to reply to.

[Imperial Power]

There is no doubt that if everyone citizen in Cuba was allowed to own guns there would be a revolution. There is no doubt that if every citizen owned guns in North Korea there would be a revolution. It is simple fact that the people are oppresed and held down by their government. Some of you seem to think that by owning a gun you can carry with you to the grocery store. Unless you have a permit for a concealed weapon that is not going to happen. peace you then admit that the communist government is currently oppresing the people and keepign them out of power?

[Nateddi]

But if you intend to kill people, you will carry it to the grocery store regardless of a permit. If you will do harm with a gun, why get a permit for it.

[Imperial Power]

AS long as you have law abiding citzens that doesn't happen. The majority of Americans own guns and its such a small percentage that are criminals. The guns used in crime are usually not even registered.

[peaccenicked]

If millions are regisrered how many will fall into wrong hands.
Washington to Washington - Join the Crusade!

Why We're Doing This

Every day, 12 children die from gunshot wounds. Each day there is no action on this issue, we lose 12 more children. It is the horror of events like Columbine that grab the news headlines, but these daily deaths are even more commonplace than a dramatic school shooting-they are happening in everyone's backyard.

Gun Deaths Among Youth:


4,223 young people ages 0-19 were killed by gunfire - one every two hours, nearly 12 every day in the U.S. in 1997.
2,580 were murdered by gunfire.
1,262 committed suicide using a gun-more than three every day.
306 died from an unintentional or "accidental" shooting.
630 young people killed by guns were under the age 15.
191 young people killed by guns were under the age 10.
84 young people were under the age 5.

[source for all of the above: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the National Center for Health Statistics]

American children under 15 are 12 times more likely to die from gunfire than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. [source: Centers for Disease Control. Rates of homicide, suicide, and firearm-related death among children-26 industrialized countires. MMWR 46 (5):101-105. 1997.]

Gun homicide is the fourth leading cause of death for young people 10-14 years of age. [source: National Center for Health Statistics 1997 data.]

Gun homicide is the second leading cause of death for young people 15-24. [source: National Center for Health Statistics 1997 data.]

Total Gun Deaths:

There were a total of 32,436 people killed by guns in the U.S. in 1997. Of these:

17,566 were gun suicides
13,522 were gun homicides
981 were unintentional or "accidental" shootings
367 were shooting deaths of undetermined intent

[source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the National Center for Health Statistics]

In 1997, firearm injuries were the second leading cause of injury death for all ages and for young people aged 15-24. Motor vehicle injuries were the leading cause of injury death for all ages and for you young people 15-24 years of age in 1997. [source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. National Vital Statistics Report, 47 (19),June 30, 1999:table 19]

The risk of suicide or homicide is twice as high for individuals with a family history of registered handgun purchase, than for those without such a history. [source: Cummings, P. et al. The Association between the purchase of a handgun and homicide or suicide. AJPH, 87(6) June 1997:974-978.]

Suicide is nearly 5 times more likely to occur in a household with a gun than in a household without a gun. [source: Kellermann, A.L. et al. Suicide in the home in relation to gun ownership. N Engl J Med, 327(7) Aug. 12, 1992:467-472.]

The presence of a gun in the home triples the risk of homicide in the home. [source: Kellermann, A.L. et al. Gun ownership as a risk factor for homicide in the home. N Engl J Med 329 (15) October 7, 1993: 1084-1091.]

Guns were used in approximately 7 out of every 10 murders in the U.S. in 1997. Handguns were used in 53% of all murders and in 78% of all murders committed with a firearm. [source: Federal Bureau of Investigation. Crime in the United States, 1997. Washington, DC: Department of Justice. p. 20.]

Americans own nearly 200 million guns, 65 million of which are handguns. [source: Cook, P.L. and Ludwig, L. Guns in America: national survey on private ownership and use of firearms. Research in Brief. National Institute of Justice, May 1997.] One-quarter of adults in the United States own a gun and only about one in six Americans (16%) own a handgun. That means that five out of six Americans do not own a handgun. [source: Diaz, T. Making a Killing, The Business of Guns in America. New York: the New Press, 1999.]

Please write and send your tax deductible Contribution to:
MMM, WA. STATE
6619 - 132nd Ave. NE, PMB 138
Kirkland, WA. 98033

For more information on the national Million Mom March,
please go to http://www.millionmommarch.com.

[Imperial Power]

Peace the point I am making is that in communist countries if the general population owned guns they would rebel. As for unregistered guns they go all over the world. Arms trafficking is major business.

[peaccenicked]

Are they not all dupes like you then?
If not Stalinism does not create dupes then.
The majority are not brainwashed.
It is only you that is a dupe for the minority power in the US?

[El Che]

quote from moskito
Britain doesn't allow it's subjects to own guns, Japan doesn't allow it's citizens to own guns. Right to bear arms being freedom is an American concept, think universally.

You realise of course that u infact asking a tipical yankee to think universally... LOL nice joke.

[Imperial Power]

You lost me there Peace. What minority party is it you think I represent?

[peaccenicked]

You have bush beside you there and you have not been at all critical. I think you said you trusted him.
That at least makes you a sycophant.
Your endless NEWSPEAK of mainstream repulican
blab makes you a dupe.
IN summary if you look at it logically you have the outlook of a toadying gullible Sancho pancho.

[Moskitto]

There's loads of strange typically British concepts as to what freedom is as well. In Britain, freedom seems to be freedom not to be given a government issue ID card or freedom to have the picture of an unelected head of state on our money.

[Supermodel]

Fear the government that fears your guns.....

Your dear gun-totin' friend, Supermodel.....

[I Will Deny You]

Many guns used for crime are not registered. Many other guns are registered, they're just not registered by the criminal who uses them. That's because many guns are stolen from law-abiding citizens by criminals. If guns were needed for protection so badly, you'd think that small guns would be incredibly by the law-abiding citizens in Britain. (Are you going to suggest that one of our greatest allies, a capitalist country to boot, is oppressing its citizens?) Gun control works. There are hundreds of unsolved murders from where I'm sitting but next to no homicides in Britain. The majority of countries whose governments I imagine you'd approve of are siding with the communist countries who you're criticizing on this one.

As you said yourself, arms trafficking is a major business. You've got your average Joe in a communist country, he hasn't got much access to guns. But the rebel groups in almost every communist country do have access to guns. So the people who want to overthrow communist governments have got guns and the everyday citizens do not.

[Jurhael]

Which is why it's important to HAVE armed citizens.

Most people who use guns are law abiding. And there have been many instances in which crimes have been prevented BECAUSE of gun use.

I'm no gun fanatic and gun fanatics are the only people I have a problem with, but I don't believe that eliminating the second ammendmant will do much either.

ANYTHING can be weapon in the wrong hands.



(Edited by Jurhael at 1:43 am on Feb. 15, 2002)

[Vladimir Ulianov]

What is a REVOLUTION ofr you, Imperial Power? everyone killing?

[Imperial Power]

Simple Vlad

A revolution is a change of government brought about by violence.

[Guest]

Can't a political revolution be defined as merely the transfer of power. That doesn't have to be violent does it. Hence chile 1970 we allende was voted in. He embarked on the building of socialism from capitalism without resorting to violence, instead he used the electoral process. Isn't that still a revolution?

[TheDerminator]

Never noticed that Allende kicked out international BORG economy. Need to tell me when that one happened.
We are not all romantic revolutinaries and conspiracy theorist revolutionaries. More than a few members of the Community believe that where there is the ballot-box, it will be our means of getting ridding the BORGS. Come the time of the revolution! Yep, it will be a revolutionary transformation of society alright!

There seems more logic in your thought than that possessed by our incumbent BORGS. Maybe U should join, they desperately require some intellectual leadership.....

Be afraid, be very afraid...

Resistance is Futile!

May the Force with U!

derminated

[Guest]

Derminator, you really need to let go of your orgasms that result from your own constant usage of the term BORGS that you use in all your posts to highlight that you created it. This need to show off something that is your and be conceited is childish similarly with your ending remarks. They are not funny derminator.
I dont know why you are so afraid of the beourgeoisie or why you feel the need to call everybody a BORG. Obviously you are a working class hero that is exploited by the capitalists. You need to wake up and realise that slander will not help the "cause of revolution" that will end the beourgeoisie. You are becoming paranoid. Chill out

Derminated lol

[guerrillaradio]

Guest - true about Derminator. IP - man has no divine right to own a gun y'know. Just like many of the Americans (admittedly not all) I have met in my time on this earth, you seem to think that the whole world is just like America. Of course, this is partly true, thanks to your constant cultural imperialism, but some countries have managed to sustain a small grain of individuality.

Enough US-bashing, onto the point. America has about the loosest gun laws in Western society. You've seen the stats on gun-related homicides posted earlier on. Put two and two together and you might see a possible reason why guns aren't abundant in most international countries, not just the ones America dislikes....

[Moskitto]

In Japan there is no hunting or target shooting, guns are absolutely illegal.

In Britain handguns are illegal except for sport, but rifles are allowed with a licence. Some other guns such as sub-machine guns, pump action shotguns are totally illegal.

Police rarely carry guns as well and only in the last few years have police been armed with anything more than a truncheon.

The murder rate in Britain is extremely low and the numbers of non-politically motivated murders are even lower. Most murders are done by knifes as well, people say we're closer together so it's easier to stab than shoot.

[Imperial Power]

guerilla- Why does "man not have a divine right to own a gun"?

[Capitalist]

England and Japan may ban the right to bear arms.

I will agree that the right to bear arms is minor when compared to the right to free speech, or free religion, or free media.

I don't see Japan and England banning these essential rights, although they may or may not ban the right to bear arms.

Cuba, China, and other communist nations ban the right to bear arms for one main reason: - to prevent counter-revolution (democratic revolution).

One can not revolt against a government that has taken away the rights of people.

Even Gahndi had the right to protest in South Africa and India for Indian Civil Rights.

Civil Disobedience can not work in a Communist State that bans all rights with Brutal, Unmerciful Force.

Banning the right to bear arms - prevents the people from rising up against their oppressive military/government.

[Moskitto]

You don't seem to know much about Britain of the British Empire.


Even Gahndi had the right to protest in South Africa and India for Indian Civil Rights.

The British government banned everyone from having meetings of more than 3 people, call that democratic?

Colnel Dyer - "They've had their warning, Fire!"

Next second 200 people die. Look up the Amritsar Massecre.


or free media.

You can't criticise the monarchy in British newspapers, radio or TV.

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from Moskitto on 8:29 pm on Mar. 19, 2002
You can't criticise the monarchy in British newspapers, radio or TV.

Is that true?? Jesus Christ...fuck that, I'm going on TV to diss the Queen!!

Capitalist - you are right about free speech (obviously). However, that was not what we were debating.

Regan - why SHOULD man have a divine right to own a instrument to designed kill or wound then?? The reasons against it seem perfectly obvious to me, too obvious to state (although I will do if you continue your current lobotomous phase...)

[Moskitto]

Yes it's true. You can't discuss the Monarchy in parliament either.

Also technically i'm commiting treason by reading what you just said.