The Confederate Flag is not an American Flag

[Capitalist]

I live in Texas and Louisiana.

I am a Southerner.

I love the South.

However I do HATE the Confederate Flag. Yeah, I thought it was cool on the "Dukes of Hazzard's General Lee" - but now that I'm older and understand the true meaning of that Anti-American flag - I don't like it one bit.

The flag represents a country (or ban of countries) that desired to seperate from the USA. Had the Confederacy won the war, The USA would have truly been screwed. The true rebels were the Union Army. They rebeled against slavery and helped advance the USA into a new Technological/Capitalistic Way of life.

The only defense - "It's our heritage"

That is bullshit!

You don't see Germans waving NAZI SWASTIKA Flags saying "It's are heritage!"

I agree it is and will always be a part of American History - however it should not be an honored part of history. I find it embarrasing when I see people around me displaying this flag.

Another defense "Slavery existed under the American Flag too"

This may be true, but the USA, unlike the CSA (Confederate Staes of America) as evolved. The CSA never evolved because it was killed in 1865 - and therfore still represents that era.

Anyway - I'd like to know what some of you right wingers think on this issue.

For Me:

The COnfederate Flag = Symbol of American Division

[libereco]

I'm not American (sorry for posting in here) but I appreciate that you distant yourself from what happened under that flag.
However I want to comment on a few things.
First being that the Union did not really fight to stop slavery....i mean it sounds great and all, but they just didn't. They were okay with the south having slaves after all, they just didn't want it to spread back to the north.

And another thing is the parrallel you drew to the NAZIs.
What you need to realize is that while germans (most at least) distance themselves from the NAZIs, they still ackowledge that those crimes were commited by their ancestors...by their grandparents and parents.
And you took those states back in the USA after all, eh.
And minds there didn't change from one day to another.

[Sasafrás]

Well, I'm a leftie but a southerner as well and I'm not necessarily a fan of the Con. Flag but I don't hate it. My US History teacher made a good point that if the Confederacy had actually remained an independent nation, it would have eventually failed because they had nothing but cotton and a little livestock. There was no industry whatsoever and everyone was stupid practically. After the Confederacy failed, its leaders would go, on their knees, begging the Union leaders to take the Confederacy back.
I was not too hip on idea of removing the little Confederate flag from the corner of the Mississippi flag. Taking away a Confederate flag would in no way take away the racism from people's hearts, so what does removing the flag actually prove? But, I still wouldn't mind if it were removed from the MS flag and the GA (my birth state) flag as well.. At least the symbol would be absent.

[Moskitto]

I'm not American either so I'm sorry for posting as well.

It's quite a good looking flag, but what it repressented was bad. Abe Lincoln was the best American president in my opinion for the emancipation proclaimation.

I was once camping when I was much younger and I saw a load to people who were gavered round a barbecue and there was a confederate flag. Then my brother mentioned something about the confereate heritage or something and how it's really big. And my dad said that the confederate heritage is evil and based on racism.

[Sasafrás]

The Emancipation Proclamation, though it did have a VERY significant effect (or is it affect) on slavery, did not free all slaves. The EP only freed slaves in states that were in rebellion against the Union, so, slaves in the slave states that were a part of the Union (Missouri, Kentucky, Delaware, and Maryland) did not immediately gain liberation.

..Peace & Love..

[Capitalist]

Jesus Christ, excuse my spelling errors on my post - I wrote like a 3rd grader.

I was just joking when I said Americans only - however I must admit that I am surprised that Europeans seem to know our history very well too.

The bars and stripes is a beautiful flag - like the swastika, the hammer & sickle, and even Che Guevara's image it seems to draw your attention - hypnotize you subconciously. However do not be fooled - one must understand the full picture of what these symbols actually symbolize and not just romanticize them.

The CSA reminds me of most 3rd world/communistic countries. Their economy was totally based on Agriculture. Their economy was doomed from the start. In fact their economy resembles a totally farm based economy - the same economy encouraged by Che Guevara and Fidel Castro. They failed to realize that you need diversity in an economy.

As for President Lincoln - let me remind everyone that he was the USA's first Republican President.

Ironic, The Confederates considered themselves rebels - yet I think that rebellion was based totally on ignorance, inefficiency, and oppression - similar to the Cuban Revolution.

[Imperial Power]

A few things about The Civil War:

1) The war started over economics and nothing more.
The north was taking advantage of the south by passing bills in congress to make the south weaker. The south did not agree but didn't have a majority in the house or senate.

2) Great generals such as Robert E. Lee and "Stonewall" Jackson did not even have slaves but felt their homeland was being invaded so they fought for the South.

3) It's also interesting that more casualties occured in The Civil War than all the other American wars since added together.

[Capitalist]

Slavery was definitely responsible for the Civil War.

Indirectly Responsible - Yet Responsible

When REPUBLICAN President, Abe Lincoln, was elected President - he vowed to prohibit anymore slave states from entering the Union - thereby creating future unbalance in the senate.

I agree with Imperial Power that this was an economic issue - however the southern economy was based on slave labor and therfore slavery was the underlying cause for the Civil War.

I agree that for the most part, it was a different time. Perhaps, many slaves were treated with some respect - like a good old dog, and most slaves were not whipped are treated so harshly like in the movies, some slaves lived better than the common white man. Some may have enjoyed their life of slavery.

Now does that mean that most slaves were treated horribly?

Yes.

Anyone without freedom is treated horribly - these people were treated like cattle. It was totally unjustifiable.

They had no freedom of speech

No freedom of Assembly

No freedom to Vote

No freedom to education

No freedom to move

Families Seperated.

We must never forget the crimes of slavery.

The Confederate Flag represents this American Division and Slavery.

[rebel with a cause]

Well, IP putting our wing divisions aside, and just simply talking about the civil war casualties, you have to take into consideration medical practices of that time and the fact that when a casualty did occur, it was always an American.

[pce]

"As for President Lincoln - let me remind everyone that he was the USA's first Republican President. "
-Capitalist

that doesn't mean anything. at that time, the whole republican platform was based on ending slavery and/or uniting the north and south. once slavery was stopped and the country united, the republicans saw that they didn't have a platform anymore. so they adopted the whole supporting big business deal and the trickle down theory, etc. so in that respect, the republicans sold out (this, among other reasons, is why most blacks are democrats today) the republican of today is nothing like "the USA's first republican"

[Capitalist]

Republicans have always supported Less Federal Government Control, except on the issue of Abortion (which can not be argued because both the baby and the woman have rights to the uterus - this is the only political issue that is completey grey in my opinion).

Republicans were against slavery

against taxes

against gun control

against regulation

Their platform has never changed - just the issues.

The Democratic Party is definitely communist, and for MORE government control.

Supported Slavery

Support Bigger Taxes

Support Gun Control

Support more regulation, welfare, and government handouts.

They use fear, hatred, reverse-racism & sexism in every issue.

Personally I do not like Political Parties because they tend to prohibit Republic and Democratic Government - however the Republican Party is definitely the FAR better than the Democratic Party if you prefer freedom over regulations and slavery.

[Moskitto]

The American Civil War was the first modern war. Europeans tend to be ignorant in thinking it was the first world war. But the American civil war was the first major war to employ mass production techniques, machine guns, and armoured battleships.

Annother thing about the war is it shows how much socially advanced the Americans were compared to the Europeans. Europe was poised to recognise the Confederacy, an economy, like capitalist said which was based on Slavery. Also at the end of the war the Union just accepted the surrunder and made a fair and just peace. 50 years later in Europe the same thing didn't happen.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Capitalist on 10:02 pm on Feb. 15, 2002
however the Republican Party is definitely the FAR better than the Democratic Party if you prefer freedom over regulations and slavery.Make that: If you prefer Strom Thurmond and freedom over regulations and slavery.

You say that the Republican Party has stayed the same and you mentioned prejudice plenty of times, so I've got to ask you, if they started out as the anti-slavery party and now they're Strom Thurmond's money-funneller of choice, don't you think they've changed just a wee bit? But I do agree with your point that political parties aren't all that great. (The Democratic Party isn't communist, though.) And by the way, Mr. Anti-Prejudice, did it ever occur to you that plenty of established figures on the left who were the first Che Guevara admirers (the brilliant Abbie Hoffman, for example) got their start in the anti-segregation movement in the South?

Like you, I'm anti-slavery. I hope that you prefer Hoffman over Thurmond just like I do.

By the way, Lee only fought for the Confederacy because Virginia joined it. When Virginia was still in the Union, he planned to fight for them.

(Edited by I Will Deny You at 10:24 pm on Feb. 15, 2002)

[Xvall]

Lee did have slaves..
Funny thing though was that he freed his before Grant did. Abraham Lincon had slaves before he was a president as well....

- Drake Dracoli

[Supermodel]

Capitalist, I am totally with you on this one....OOOps I'm not american but I have lived here for almost 20 years.

We go to S.Carolina for vacation almost every year and I do take exception to their prominent use of the confederate flag.

No most of the time I am completely agaisnt re-writing history, book-burning, symbol banning and everything. But I can only imagine what looking at that flag does to continue to diminish the feelings of those whose ancestors were slaves. We might reconsider our loyaly to S Carolina for beach time. (I like Miami netter anyway).

And Capitalist, my 3rd grader can spell better than you (kidding!!!)

Rebel with a cause.....LOL!!! Quick thinking!!

[I Will Deny You]

Just go to Virginia Beach! It's disgustingly tacky, but if you're there with kids and you don't stay too long, it's really fun.

I don't remember seeing any Confederate Flags there. I can only imagine a Confederate boogie board . . . if they sold those, I'd buy one just because it's so awful.