Che Guevara = Raging Machine

[Capitalist]

The ruthless commander.

According to Regis Debray (Bolivian Companion of Guevara) - Che immediately ordered the execution of a 15 year old boy without trial for stealing food from his regiment.

"I can't be a friend with anyone who doesn't share my beliefs" - Che Guevara

Assigned the post of Cuban State Prosecutor - excercising his power to condemn approx. 600 people to death - including former comrads-in-arms who refused to abandon their democratic beliefs.

In 1960 he invented Cuba's first "Corrective work camp" (we would call it a forced labor camp)

He was the architect behind the Cuban Youth (We would call it Hitler Youth or better yet Fidel Youth).

Che Guevara was a Maoist Communist. Admirer of Lenin and Stalin - The same communist responsible for invading and exterminating Tibet. He ordered the execution of Trotskyites in Cuba. Trotskyites and other communists refused him aid in Bolivia.

As minister of the Cuban Economy and head of the Central Bank - Guevara imposed the Soviet Model on Cuba. No notion of economics - he ruined Cuba's economy. Though claiming to despise money, he lived in one of the wealthiest, private areas of Havanna (much like the Castro communist party members do today).

In the Congo, his ally in arms - Marxist Laurent Kabila - later to become self-appointed president of the Democratic Republic of Congo and who never hesitated to massacre opposing african civillians.

Not a single Bolivian peasant joined Che Guevara's Guerilla force in Bolivia.

Che Guevara was noted as praising the "extremely useful hatred that turns men into effective, violent, merciless, and cold killing machine"

Che Guevara was not an open and warm Cuban - but an Argentina Invader - A machine full of rage.

Che Guevara = The Rage and The Machine.

[CheGuevara]

Rage is great. Far better than being a weak little wet pussy.

[PunkRawker677]

read che guevara's bolivian Diaries. MANY bolivian peasants joined him, and many also supported him but for different reasons could not fight along side with him. I DO NOT believe che guevara was any sort of hitler, and you are just using certain examples to your own advantage. In the 1940's, USA, "Labor Camps" where set up in many many prisons and the prisoner's worked.. i guess you could also compare the US with Hitler and the Nazis too.. could you not?

(Edited by PunkRawker677 at 5:36 am on Feb. 9, 2002)

[Capitalist]

NOT ONE BOLIVIAN PEASANT ever joined Che Guevara's Revolution in Bolivia.

Not One.

The USA had concentration camps for Japanese Americans. These camps were very unjust - however they were paradise when comparing them to the labor camps in Totalarian Regimes like Nazi Germany, Communist Cuba, Soviet Union, Communist China, etc.

I know a Japanese American that grew up in one of these Japanese American Concentration camps. He is the wealthiest most capitalistic American I know. He was just a child when he grew up in the camps - said his happiest mermories were growing up in that camp. Today he lives in a neighborhood called the Country Club of Louisiana (the most wealthiest Neighborhood in Baton Rouge). Every 6 months he trades in his Mercedes for a new one - probably makes about $100,000 a month. He would be the first to tell you that the USA is the greatest country to ever exist. He has no regrets growing up in an American Concentration Camp. Didn't bother him one bit.

Now you try finding a labor camp

[poncho]

"The USA had concentration camps for Japanese Americans. These camps were very unjust - however they were paradise when comparing them to the labor camps in Totalarian Regimes like Nazi Germany, Communist Cuba, Soviet Union, Communist China, etc"--Capitalist

Ive been to Cuba about fifty times over the past couple of years, Ive yet to see labour camps. Yet American companies fill factories with small children making shoes for Nike!!!!!

[FSLNguerrillero]

Japanese Capitalist_00: "I'm glad to have grown up in a concentration camp, from there are my fondest of memories! Being sent away for my ethnicity, hated by so many, and forced to live in a place unknown! Oh the fun! The adventures I had!" I'm sure he can say that now, considering he has more money than he knows what to do with. The green nicely mutes out the bad memories...the soft coutch puts worries to sleep...the TV spoon feeds more blind truths. "Is the stock market down again! Poo! Hey look, what are those poor kids doing working in a...oh, beer commerical!"

[Capitalist]

Poncho, why don't you quit lying.

You have never been to Cuba.

50 times in the past couple years - yeah whatever.

[poncho]

Obviously you have not or else you would be crushed to learn every piece done by an American is the lie. I started in 96. just counted the stamps in my passport only 40 stamps. Its so nice to be able to travel places Americans cannot, Wonder why that is? I find it humorous that someone can make labour camp comments without actually seeing them! Believe me if you want. I'm not the one arguing to return a sovereign state into a slave camp for American companies...

[FSLNguerrillero]

Oh yes, and by the way, Che was known as a strict disciplinarian. He did not accept half-ass jobs or people that took advantage of what little that could be provided for his comrades. If a soldier was lazy, after Che got to him, he'd make sure not to make that mistake twice. You live with threats of diseases like leishmania (if that's how you spell it), little or no food, and constant fear of attack. I bet you'd want the guy on duty to be awake, and that no one took too much rations for themsleves.

There is a story about how, when fighting in the countryside, Fidel and Che caught a man who had been terrorizing the country-side with a group of bandits. They would rape, kill, and steal from poor towns. The head man was executed. Che, to teach the others a lesson, tied them to a tree and blindfolded them. Machine gun rounds were shot into the air, and the bandits, as soon as they had found out they were safe, changed and joined the cause.

I, of course, have not experienced guerrilla warfare, but know so many that have, during the time of the Sandinistas and a man who was a former member of the Batista army.

When the revoultion was done in Cuba, Che did schedule many shootings. Alot of these men were officers who, once the revoultion had ended, were indulging in the Casinos, brotels, and other mafia run institutions. And Che knew that when the United States saw that the revolution had triumphed in Cuba, it would try to freeze all Cuban assets in the U.S. Even though Che was by no means a PHD in economics, he ordered the conversion of all cuban gold in Fort Knox and in other U.S. Locations to be sold immediately and turned into currency and tranferred to Cuba.

Che had his ideals, he wanted freedom for a people from tyranny, lies, and exploitation. Didn't the fledgling clonies of the 1700's in the U.S want the same? And isn't just a coincidence that they had to shed blood too? And kill British officers and officials? Even parade them though the street tarred and feathered, and if you know anything about biology, tar is not good for you, no sir.

So you ask, was Che full of rage? Yes. A rage that had built up from his days working with lepers and watching bolivian miners slave away. A rage that would soon flare up and signal the entire world, a wake up call. The world was not OK. Slavery still existed. It was easy to say that capitalism brought prosperity, but freedom in it had a price tag. Now, was he a machine? If some who works tirelessly to promote TRUE freedom, justice, and equality is defined as a machine, then call him one if you want. Che was a revolutionary, a thinker, a doctor, a father, a soldier...but most of all, he was a man who had a mind that reached farther than four closed walls and a bed to sleep in...A man who cared.

[Xvall]

What makes you think he has not been to Cuba? He could have very well been to Cuba. In fact, I'm sure every communist in here could be allowed in to Cuba if they really tried. The youth communist party has even made sorts of 'field trips' to meet cuban children at many times.

- Drake Dracoli

[poncho]

I'm Canadian so I'm free to go. I'am a capitalist but that is not what America practices when it enters third world country's and "helps" with establishing a "democratic" government. Cuba does have problems but having been there many times and seeing for myself the otherside of the story, you really do see how America and the criminals in Miami are blowing things way out of proportion or flat out lying.... I'll admit some things in Cuba are a little hard to accept but they are not as bad as people suggest and I'm sick of people saying otherwise. The saddest day in history will occurr if America is once again master of Cuba.

[Supermodel]

Che sounds like a sweetie pie compared to my boss.

[PunkRawker677]

Why do u not believe him. Im only 19 and ive been to Cuba 4 times, and i live in the U.$. And i never saw a concentration camp and no one in my family has ever heard of such a thing. if you have a CREDIBLE source, post it. otherwise, shut up.

[poncho]

Guess my Brother never attended the University of Cienfuegos either?

[pogo]

Quote: from Capitalist on 9:11 pm on Feb. 8, 2002
...He was just a child when he grew up in the camps - said his happiest mermories were growing up in that camp.

Ya, I have a jewish friend who says his grandfather "loved those darn concentration camps in germany." He got to lose weight and meet interesting people. The american had to drag him out cause he didnt want to leave.... (that was all sarcasm)


Today he lives in a neighborhood called the Country Club of Louisiana (the most wealthiest Neighborhood in Baton Rouge). Every 6 months he trades in his Mercedes for a new one - probably makes about $100,000 a month. He would be the first to tell you that the USA is the greatest country to ever exist. He has no regrets growing up in an American Concentration Camp. Didn't bother him one bit.

You know, that is a truely great story. It allmost makes me want to be thrown in a camp that i cant leave by a government who wont even allow me to be a citizen, while all my possesions and my home are being taken from me in the outside world im not allowed to be in. I may end up like your japanese friend.

[Forever capitalism]

Guevara executed 550 people. Is that your hero?

[Imperial Power]

Poncho

How can you blame Nike for sweat shops? Are the countries where they exist not at fault. I believe it was Reagon Lives who explained that Nike simply hires a company to set up production. Working conditions in these countries are not the reslt of Nike but the country they are in.

[peaccenicked]

Exposing Sweatshops
Perhaps the apparel industry more than any other typifies "race to the bottom" of wages and working conditions triggered by economic globalization. Workers around the world-- from New York and L.A. to Bangkok, Saipan and San Salvador-- are experiencing the proliferation of sweatshop conditions.



What is a sweatshop?
A sweatshop is a workplace where workers are subject to:

extreme exploitation, including the absence of a living wage or benefits

poor working conditions, such as health and safety hazards

arbitrary discipline, such as physical and psychological abuse.

In Los Angeles, nearly 70% of immigrant garment workers receive below minimum wage. In several Central American countries, women workers are often forced to undergo pregnancy testing or take contraception. In many Asian countries, workers making shoes are exposed to dangerous chemicals. Sweatshops also exist in other manufacturing industries, such as toys, electronics and agriculture.

The prevalence of global sweatshops has also ignited an anti-sweatshop movement in the US and Europe. This issue includes ongoing coverage of sweatshops and the movement to hold manufacturers accountable.



CorpWatch Takes on Nike
In November, 1997, CorpWatch (which was then known as the Transnational Resource & Action Center, TRAC) released a secret, internal Nike document which had been leaked to us. The Ernst & Young labor and environmental audit of a Nike facility in Vietnam, along with CorpWatch Research Associate Dara O'Rourke's independent assessment and photos from inside the factory, made front page news in The New York Times.

The media attention spawned by CorpWatch bolstered the excellent work of a variety of organizations striving to hold Nike accountable and to improve working conditions in garment and shoe factories globally. Our release of the Ernst & Young report significantly increased the pressure on Nike to improve conditions in its overseas factories. As the Multinational Monitor editorialized, "for a whole year, Nike denied that its contractors in Asia abused and mistreated workers. The company said that the information was being sent out by fringe activists on the Internet....With the leak of an Ernst & Young report, the fringe became mainstream."

Student organizers demanding that universities doing business with Nike hold the company to higher standards kept Nike's labor practices in the spotlight. Meanwhile, faced with the increasing clout of activist groups, falling stock prices and weak sales, Nike announced major concessions to its critics in May, 1998.

Nike's pledge to end child labor, follow U.S. occupational health and safety standards, and allow non-governmental organizations to participate in the monitoring of its Asian factories is an important step forward. Nike has finally admitted to the public that the conditions in its factories need to be drastically improved. This was a first step which will hopefully began a process to transform these conditions. However, ongoing problems in Nike factories around the world continue to raise serious questions detailed in some of the material in this section.

We hope that the information CorpWatch continues to provide will strengthen ongoing efforts to hold not only Nike, but all garment and shoe manufacturers, accountable to principles of human rights and environmental justice.

Nikki Bas, Director Sweatshop Watch, Board Member CorpWatch

[Capitalist]

I will admit the USA is guilty of crimes (Native American Extermination, African Slavery, Supporting Corrupt Democracies to prevent Communist Control).

However - that does not excuse the fact that the Che Guevara and Fidel Castro (Communist) ideology is corrupt.

Nor does the crimes of USA prove that ALL Capitalism is evil. Most Capitalistic/Democratic Societies are very sucessful (For everyone).

The USA as evolved into a very compassionate country. The USA of Today is not the same USA of Yesterday. We are a country of evolution - that is evolving for the better everyday.

Again Communists try to win arguements by failing to recognize that their own ideaology is full of holes and leads to shit. That communist Cuba, Fidel Castro, and Che Guevara represent love and revolution.

The facts are clear - Your ideaology is CLASS GENOCIDE. Communism leads to corruption and poverty and keeps the masses ignorant and captive inside walls and islands.

The people under Communism are not free. The Communist leaders (tyrants) tend to be the same Capitalists that the you communists are disgusted by.

Communist Tyrants = Dictators = Slave Owners

Complaining about the USA does not prove your point about the Human Rights in Cuba or China.

[peaccenicked]

Capitalist did not know you had an attention span disorder
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...rum=22&topic=41 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=41)


(Edited by peaccenicked at 11:37 pm on Feb. 12, 2002)

[Moskitto]

I don't actually now think that capitalist is the most annoying person on the forum. Argueing with capitalist is far more productive than argueing with someone who claims to know so much about god and religious matters yet doesn't seem to realise that the whole idea of religion is faith (that's why they're called faiths.) And will not accept that this is the idea of religion.

[Capitalist]

No offense, Peacenicked

But I have a very short attention span when it comes to reading your replies.

They are VERY Long and Boring.

A good communicator is short and to the point.

[Forever capitalism]

good point, peacenicked probably just types inane drivel but so much of it that nobody reads and assumes is correct. Let's limit responses people, you know like communism where opinions are suppressed? Something like that exactly for brevaty's sake

[peaccenicked]

you are boring
I dont read what i say
You can't argue against what I say
so you come up with lame subjective excuses,
that promote your own ignorance.
The point is Capitalist and Forever Capitalism are trying to prove metaphorically a dog is a cat and when they hear someone spending some time prove that they are.they go apeshit and try to shut him up in Macarthyite republican fashion and then pluck ' freedom of speech' from their arses. In the faith that they must be right because they are comfortable with the misery on this planet caused by capitalism.

(Edited by peaccenicked at 1:03 pm on Feb. 13, 2002)


(Edited by peaccenicked at 1:05 pm on Feb. 13, 2002)