Stalin,

[Thine Stalin]

I'm new to this Mesage board, friend showed me it, but I've be a communist since I was 6 and all the forums that I find are filled with obnoxious right wing capitalist, pro-christian republicans, so I figure to give you a try..
Stalin has always been deep interest of mine, I consider him the finest leader in all history but it seems even communists shun him for his mass executions and work camps. Why? Was he not the first true powerful communist leader? Lenin spent almost all of his short reign putting down minor rebellions, and tying up lose ends while stalin transformed soviet russia from a backwards farm society into one of the leading industrial nations, he formed the first collective farming system, he defeated hitler, not the allies as they would have us believe. Stalin was also the most powerful man ever, screw the president, he must answer to congress, stalin had control of 1/6 of the world at one point, but I babbled enough, tell me what you think of him

[peaccenicked]

personally I agree with Trotsky
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/wo...37-st2/sf11.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1937-st2/sf11.htm)

[Thine Stalin]

Trotsky and his followers devoted their lives to the corruption of Stalin's regieme, they often planted bombs and killed important leaders, which were then blamed on stalin, Trotsky is the real reason why the soviet dream was not brought to reality sooner by stalin, He took what was of Lenins plan as his own and bastardized it..


During the period from the October Revolution to 1922, Trotsky, already a member of the Bolshevik Party, managed to make two "grand" sorties against Lenin and his Party: in 1918 -- on the question of the Brest Peace; and in 1921 -- on

page 886

the trade-union question. Both those sorties ended in Trotsky being defeated. Why? Perhaps Stalin's rudeness was to blame here? But at that time Stalin was not yet the secretary of the Central Committee. The secretarial posts were then occupied by notorious Trotskyists. So what has Stalin's rudeness got to do with it?

Later, Trotsky made a number of fresh sorties against the Party (1923, 1924, 1926, 1927) and each sortie ended in Trotsky suffering a fresh defeat.

Is it not obvious from all this that Trotsky's fight against the Leninist Party has deep, far-reaching historical roots? Is it not obvious from this that the struggle the Party is now waging against Trotskyism is a continuation of the struggle that the Party, headed by Lenin, waged from 1904 onwards?

Is it not obvious from all this that the attempts of the Trotskyists to replace Leninism by Trotskyism are the chief cause of the failure and bankruptcy of the entire line of the opposition?

Our Party was born and grew up in the storm of revolutionary battles. It is not a party that grew up in a period of peaceful development. For that very reason it is rich in revolutionary traditions and does not make a fetish of its leaders. At one time Plekhanov was the most popular man in the Party. More than that, he was the founder of the Party, and his popularity was incomparably greater than that of Trotsky or Zinoviev. Nevertheless, in spite of that, the Party turned away from Plekhanov as soon as he began to depart from Marxism and go over to opportunism. Is it surprising, then, that people who are not so "great," people like Trotsky and Zinoviev, found themselves at the tail of the Party after they began to depart from Leninism?

[peaccenicked]

personally I tend to egree with Ticktin on these issues.
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/...fheben/auf3.htm (http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/aut_html/Aufheben/auf3.htm)

[Moskitto]

I don't like Stalin but some of what you say makes sense. Stalin is the focal point of the 20th century because he ties the russian revolution and WW1 with WW2 and Hitler and the Cold War.

But Stalin being most powerful man ever? I'd disagree, Mao ruled over more people than Stalin (about 1/4) of the world and isn't it power over people which makes you really powerful?

Annother thing, the 50 million Stalin death toll is dodgy. Statistically, Stalin would have killed about 1/3 of the population of the USSR. Which would have been quite hard to cover up. 20 million is more likely.

[Capitalist]

Che Guevara loved Stalin & Mao

All Trotskyites were enemeies of Che Guevara. Many Trotskyites were executed in Cuba and the Trotskyites refused to help Che Guevara in Bolivia.

Personally I don't see a difference.

Communist = Stalin = Trotsky = Anarchist = Pol Pot = Mao = Fidel Castro = Dictatorship Regimes

They are all the same

[Moskitto]

cough, Rosa Luxemburg, cough

[HardcoreCommie]

dude, what did rosa luxembourg do. She hardly held power for 2 weeks. People don't ignore rosa luxembourg because they don't like her, they ignore her cause she didn't do shit.

[Moskitto]

That wasn't my point. Rosa Luxemburg didn't hold power full stop.

If you say all communists were the same you ignore Rosa Luxemburg because there are total idealogical differences between people like Pol Pot and Rosa Luxemburg.

We could ignore everyone who didn't have power. Let's ignore Adam Smith, Mhatma Ghandi, Martin Luther King...