Nambla

[The New Left]

Well, since I'm really bored, I thought I'd ask about NAMBLA or North American Man Boy Love Association. What would this group look like after a revoluton? I'm kinda scared to hear the answer, cause I don't know what I'll get.



P.S. I have no affiliation with NAMBLA or what it represents, ewwwwwwwwwwww.

[Dimentio]

Well, since I'm really bored, I thought I'd ask about NAMBLA or North American Man Boy Love Association. What would this group look like after a revoluton? I'm kinda scared to hear the answer, cause I don't know what I'll get.



P.S. I have no affiliation with NAMBLA or what it represents, ewwwwwwwwwwww.

No matter how much we despise, fear and even hate the phenomena of pedophilia, I do not believe that we should repress pedophiles as human beings, but just prevent them to realise their carnal passions.

NAMBLA should be allowed to exist. I think the general public always will prohibit pedophilia from emerging as an accepted custom, at least within our culture (in some historical and present cultures pedophilia has been accepted though).

[The New Left]

I should have asked a better question instead.

After a revolution how would we treat pedophiles? Would we allow their version of "free love"?

[Jimmie Higgins]

I honestly don't know what workers should/would do with active or violent pedophiles in the short term after a revolution.

In the long term, I think that a society where sex isn't a power-relation between people and there is really "free-love", then a lot of things like rape and aggressive pedophilia will practically vanish. These kinds of sexual-abuses are symptoms of sick class-societies. In class-societies, "authorities" (teachers, priests, adults) can use their position to pressure people socially beneath them. Additionally, individuals who feel victimized or powerless in the general society sometimes use sex to abuse others in a twisted attempt to make themselves feel more powerful.

Also when church hierarchies are gone, that'll cut down about 80% of child molestations. :P

[Jimmie Higgins]

I should have asked a better question instead.

After a revolution how would we treat pedophiles? Would we allow their version of "free love"?

Without hierarchy teaching children to blindly obey adults and without economic motives for a younger person to exchange sex with an older person for financial stability (sugar-daddies) I suppose if a teenage really mutually wanted to have a sexual relationship with an older person I wouldn't really have a problem with that. I think it would be pretty rare though. I think modern pedophilia is really a result of modern bourgeois ideology. It's a myth about young women and young boys who are simply sex objects and naive and submissive - it's a myth or power-fantasy just like the racist fantasies of submissive Asian women or sexually skilled French women.

[jake williams]

I think it's an extremely difficult and complex question/set of questions.

The immediate complexity which arises is that we're talking about many different things, whose differences outweigh the category, to put it one way. You just can't, as is often done, lump a 19-year-old making out with a 17-year-old in with an adult having penetrative sex with a toddler stepchild with a hockey coach having masturbatory fantasies in private about players on their team. They're just all almost completely unrelated.

We have to look at, well really all sorts of sexual activities. We have to find out what they consist of, and their effects, positive and negative. If we decide, as with some I think we certainly should, that some categories of sexual activity are unacceptable, than we have to find ways to act to prevent them, and if they occur, try to counteract the harm, something I think we can have a lot of success if we're intelligent. To some extent it will require large scale psycho-social changes, though there seems to be this delusion that all problems in society are because of private ownership of capital, and that's just complete nonsense. For its own reasons it should be abolished, and if and when it is it will help give us tools to solve other problems, but there are other problems that to an important degree stand alone.

I think it's probably obvious, though, that crucifying people is an unproductive way to solve any problems for people hurt by harmful sexual activity. Moreover, note that I said activities, and for this context I don't really consider private fantasies to be activities, or at least if they are they're a special case. It may be that private fantasies of certain kinds generate their own issues, intentional or no, but we should never declare thoughtcrime and we'll have to step quite carefully and consciously around this. I do think that there are probably some people are mostly or exclusively sexually attracted to children, by the nature of sexual attraction involuntarily, and these people should be sympathized with and helped, rather than treated as tentacles of Satan deliberately plotting to harm people, because I really believe that virtually no one in the world actually wants to be demonic.

[which doctor]

I should have asked a better question instead.

After a revolution how would we treat pedophiles? Would we allow their version of "free love"?
The problem with their version of free love is that it isn't "free." Due the the differences in age and emotionally maturity the relationship is not one of equals. Although I think we need to vastly overhaul our sex crime and age of consent laws, pedophilc behavior should be discouraged.

[coda]

<<The problem with their version of free love is that it isn't "free." Due the the differences in age and emotionally maturity the relationship is not one of equals. Although I think we need to vastly overhaul our sex crime and age of consent laws, pedophilc behavior should be discouraged.>>

good reply, FOB... I'm with you.

[jake williams]

The problem with their version of free love is that it isn't "free." Due the the differences in age and emotionally maturity the relationship is not one of equals. Although I think we need to vastly overhaul our sex crime and age of consent laws, pedophilc behavior should be discouraged.
I by and large agree, but as I've said elsewhere, we have to be conscious that if we're at all honest it means combating other power-difference relationships inasmuch as they're analogous.

[NoGodsNoMasters]

The problem with their version of free love is that it isn't "free." Due the the differences in age and emotionally maturity the relationship is not one of equals. Although I think we need to vastly overhaul our sex crime and age of consent laws, pedophilc behavior should be discouraged.

I agree 100% with this. Pedophilic sex can NEVER be condoned because of the inherent power imbalance between adult and child. This is one of the few crimes that I will take an absolutist stand on. I assert that child rape is wrong under any circumstances.

[jake williams]

I agree 100% with this. Pedophilic sex can NEVER be condoned because of the inherent power imbalance between adult and child. This is one of the few crimes that I will take an absolutist stand on. I assert that child rape is wrong under any circumstances.
If you're going to be absolutist about it, you have to define absolutist conditions. I mean, first off, what defines an "adult" and what defines a "child"?

[Redmau5]

If you're going to be absolutist about it, you have to define absolutist conditions. I mean, first off, what defines an "adult" and what defines a "child"?

Well as you point out, it is hard to define. But it's clear there is a substantial difference between an 18 year old man (legal adult) and a 15 year old girl (legal child) having sex and a 40 year old man having sex with a nine year old. The latter, in my opinion, is a pretty clear cut example of something which is wrong and shouldn't be tolerated.

The main issue, as you've said, is who determines when a child becomes an adult? People mature at different ages both physically and emotionally, so it is a grey area. I would imagine that in any future communist society, cases which fall into such a grey area would be dealt with on a case by case basis by the community.

[NoGodsNoMasters]

If you're going to be absolutist about it, you have to define absolutist conditions. I mean, first off, what defines an "adult" and what defines a "child"?

Ok. In the strictest sense I think the difference between adult and child is in physical development. We are biological organisms which undergo a change from puberty to adulthood. A person who has not been through puberty should not have sex with a person who has. This is the portion that I will be absolutist about.

The 13-16 year old age range is much more debatable and depends upon the culture in question. There are almost no instances of sanctioned sexual relations between very young children and adults.

[Dros]

I think this depends on your definition of pedophile and on what the age of consent is.

I think that, post revolution, the "age of consent" (if such a thing still existed in any codified way) would be lowered so some who are currently pedophiles would not be ("legally" (if we can speak of "laws")) so any more.

However, yes. There would be a need to protect young children from sexual predation.

[zufolek]

I agree with many of the thoughts in this thread, and I'll add a few of my own.

Many people do despise, fear, and hate pedophilia, but I think that most of the people who have such negative feelings toward pedophilia do so because they have been trained by the media.

The media are using nearly every technique of propagandization in these issues to persuade people to think a certain way. They use emotive and loaded words. They call fifteen-year-olds "children." Consensual sex in a loving relationship, they call "rape." I cannot list every technique here.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

The very same people want you to believe that Che Guevara was a terrorist and that buying more stuff is the key to happiness. You shouldn't believe anything they say. In fact, you'd be well advised to believe the opposite of what the big media want you to believe in most matters.

Like TNL, I have no affiliation with NAMBLA, but I have been interested in the organization since childhood, and I have actually known some Minor Attracted Adults. They really do not support rape or abuse, only consensual acts. They support youth rights, while people who want power over kids do not. Conservative leaders, for instance, certainly do not support youth rights, because they want everyone to grow up feeling powerless, in order to acclimate us to being their slaves.

Like NGNM, I assert that child rape is wrong under any circumstances. But freedom and love are not rape. Nay, they are utter opposites.

I must again pose the critical question for the more stubborn comrades: Can you decide for a young person that he or she shouldn't ultimately have the right to consent to sexual activities with whomever he or she chooses? Could you have decided for me? You cannot liberate kids from themselves.


Drop the leash.