How would, or how does a socialist society deal with gangs?

[BIG BROTHER]

And I'm asking about a socialist society, because I imagine that in the final stage, meaning communism gangs wouldn't exist, but lets say for know that a country has a revolution and becomes socialist. How would they deal with gangs, and the "gang" culture?

and by "gang" in case there's some other meaning, i mean group of young people that are dedicated to crime, fithing other gangs, etc.

p.s. I'm not some dumb right wing guy, I know that there are caused in great part by poverty.

[jake williams]

I think you're completely delusional if you think communism, like the good, fully-formed kind of communism we could all agree on, would completely eliminate crime. It would help, and it would make it easier to deal with, but it wouldn't eliminate it. We'd have to find ways to deal with.

Truth is we don't totally know what to do. Law enforcement doesn't seem to really bother listening to criminologists who get how much of a failure the current system is, but even if it did the field is fairly limited still. A lot needs to be changed about how we understand this class of problems.

I still think though, and don't think there should be much doubt about this - if you're posing a danger to others, you should be detained, not in a secret prison and not maltreated and not until your 5 years are up, but just, as long as you're wanting to attack other people, you're not given that capacity.

[BIG BROTHER]

I think you're completely delusional if you think communism, like the good, fully-formed kind of communism we could all agree on, would completely eliminate crime. It would help, and it would make it easier to deal with, but it wouldn't eliminate it. We'd have to find ways to deal with.
.

True, I guess I exagerated.

But anyways there seems to be no oficial way of dealing with this in a communist society. Does anybody care to propose a better justice system?

[Digitalism]

well, the way they dealt back home in USSR times..is they sent Arnold all the way to America, and make sure he's caught and brought back home. Maybe sent to labor camp after. hahah..

i don't know, but I felt like making a joke about this.

[R_P_A_S]

I mean you said it your self. Poverty. most gang members end up in gangs and that life style because of where they grew up. there's little money, poor schooling, scarce jobs and in most cases poor family planing. All this are problems that capitalism causes. for the most part.

I would imagine that under socialism young people would be giving more opportunity. for one education would be universal so they would be encouraged to get a profession and helped out along the way. And just think in a society where our priorities are to develop people and not money, we will focus more on the youth and social programs to lift people out of poverty and live with dignity.

[Dros]

I think you're completely delusional if you think communism, like the good, fully-formed kind of communism we could all agree on, would completely eliminate crime. It would help, and it would make it easier to deal with, but it wouldn't eliminate it. We'd have to find ways to deal with.

That's true. But it would eliminate gang violence because the roots of gang violence (poverty produced from commodity exchange). In the absence of a material basis for gangs (capitalism) gangs will go away.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

I suppose violence-seekers who find the boxing and martial arts venue less appealing may form gangs, in which case you break up the members and re-educate them.

As you can tell I don't buy the whole bullshit about "abolishing prisons." Detainment is sometimes necessary. Now fixing prisons is another matter.

[jake williams]

As you can tell I don't buy the whole bullshit about "abolishing prisons." Detainment is sometimes necessary. Now fixing prisons is another matter.
I do agree with this general line of thinking. I think we should have mechanisms to detain people who would otherwise harm others. This is an extremely tricky issue though and it has to be dealt with carefully and consciously.

[Raúl Duke]

As you can tell I don't buy the whole bullshit about "abolishing prisons." Detainment is sometimes necessary. Now fixing prisons is another matter.

That contradicts your sig:

While there is a lower class I am in it; while there is a criminal element I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

[NoGodsNoMasters]

I mean you said it your self. Poverty. most gang members end up in gangs and that life style because of where they grew up. there's little money, poor schooling, scarce jobs and in most cases poor family planing. All this are problems that capitalism causes. for the most part.

I would imagine that under socialism young people would be giving more opportunity. for one education would be universal so they would be encouraged to get a profession and helped out along the way. And just think in a society where our priorities are to develop people and not money, we will focus more on the youth and social programs to lift people out of poverty and live with dignity.

Gangs spring up from conditions of poverty, oppression, and anomie. If people are given a decent living they will not have to resort to crime for money or social life.

No society will ever be "rid" of crime. As much as I hate to admit it there are some people who are simply bad apples. I don't buy the argument that every criminal is made. Granted most crime stems from economic causes but there will always be some who simply exercise their free will and choose the path of crime.

[Dros]

I suppose violence-seekers who find the boxing and martial arts venue less appealing may form gangs, in which case you break up the members and re-educate them.

That is not a gang. A gang is an endeavor for profit. It relies on commodity exchange. In Communism, it will be impossible to have a gang.

I don't see any material basis for your "violence seekers" theory. It also implies that people who join gangs are just violent individuals seeking a way to continue their violent behavior instead of recognizing that gang members are driven to gang life out of a need to survive in a very harsh environment.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

That is not a gang. A gang is an endeavor for profit. It relies on commodity exchange. In Communism, it will be impossible to have a gang.That is your take. I am referring to the conditions set up in the original post: dedicated to crime, fithing other gangs, etc.

That contradicts your sig: While there is a lower class I am in it; while there is a criminal element I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.Nonsense. Nowhere did I refuse to relate myself to the perils of men seen as "lesser individuals." There will never be "complete freedom." Complete freedom implies ability to do whatever you want without consequence, and that is contradictory to a functional society. I would go even further and state most sane individuals wouldn't want "total freedom."

I'm waiting for someone to convince me of a workable alternative to DETENTION. I'll happily accept an alternative with open arms. As of right now, what I'm hearing is the same old tune about communism/anarchism drastically reducing violence. REDUCING violence and completely eliminating it are not the same. The silence on part of prison abolitionists is quite telling.

[BIG BROTHER]

That is not a gang. A gang is an endeavor for profit. It relies on commodity exchange. In Communism, it will be impossible to have a gang.

I don't see any material basis for your "violence seekers" theory. It also implies that people who join gangs are just violent individuals seeking a way to continue their violent behavior instead of recognizing that gang members are driven to gang life out of a need to survive in a very harsh environment.

True, its a way of surviving their extreme poverty, if it was just because they want to fight they could still do boxing and all that stuff in their current capitalist society.

[BuyOurEverything]

Obviously, gangs thrive in poverty, but more specifically, gangs exist to make money through the black market. Every serious gang deals in drugs, protection rackets, gambling, smuggling, etc. People tend to focus more on the symptoms or causes of this, ie. poverty and violence but not on what gangs actually are. It's not even really a matter of poor, disenfranchised youth looking for a place to fit in, or about innately violent people lashing out. Gangs are businesses, pure and simple. Once you legalize drugs, abolish borders, and provide a basic level of security, gangs will disappear.

[AGITprop]

Obviously, gangs thrive in poverty, but more specifically, gangs exist to make money through the black market. Every serious gang deals in drugs, protection rackets, gambling, smuggling, etc. People tend to focus more on the symptoms or causes of this, ie. poverty and violence but not on what gangs actually are. It's not even really a matter of poor, disenfranchised youth looking for a place to fit in, or about innately violent people lashing out. Gangs are businesses, pure and simple. Once you legalize drugs, abolish borders, and provide a basic level of security, gangs will disappear.

exactly. gangs (the serious ones anyway) are not created for pure enjoyment but to make some sort of return. This is a perfect analysis BuyOurEverything

[jake williams]

It's worth considering that it's almost certain any sort of "socialist" society would obtain violent political opposition, and not just from the capitalists. You could say it's workers, or whomever, fighting against their own self-interest, but we can't say they absolutely won't exist anywhere. It'll exist. There's always opposition.

[BIG BROTHER]

By the way, does anybody know if there are gangs in Cuba? or at least large and serious gangs?

[Dros]

That is your take. I am referring to the conditions set up in the original post: dedicated to crime, fithing other gangs, etc.

What crime?

Do you mean that some kind of "fight club" could exist? Sure. Although I doubt it for numerous reasons.

That is not what the word "gang" means in any real sense.

[fmlnleft]

I mean you said it your self. Poverty. most gang members end up in gangs and that life style because of where they grew up. there's little money, poor schooling, scarce jobs and in most cases poor family planing. All this are problems that capitalism causes. for the most part.

I would imagine that under socialism young people would be giving more opportunity. for one education would be universal so they would be encouraged to get a profession and helped out along the way. And just think in a society where our priorities are to develop people and not money, we will focus more on the youth and social programs to lift people out of poverty and live with dignity.

You got a point. But a lot of gangsters actually like that type of lifestyles. They are sometimes in it not just for the money, but for the lifestyle. They can like the "power".

[Faux Real]

You got a point. But a lot of gangsters actually like that type of lifestyles. They are sometimes in it not just for the money, but for the lifestyle. They can like the "power".
That's because they have no other foreseeable alternative.

[Dros]

You got a point. But a lot of gangsters actually like that type of lifestyles. They are sometimes in it not just for the money, but for the lifestyle. They can like the "power".

grow up

[BuyOurEverything]

It's worth considering that it's almost certain any sort of "socialist" society would obtain violent political opposition, and not just from the capitalists. You could say it's workers, or whomever, fighting against their own self-interest, but we can't say they absolutely won't exist anywhere. It'll exist. There's always opposition.I don't really see it. How many even relatively stable societies, have violent political gangs? You saw it a bit in the 1970s in the western industrialized countries, but that was in a period of crisis. While not ruling out isolated incidents, I have trouble believing that in a socialist society there would be more political violence than now. And seeing how getting blown up by a radical bomb throwing anarchist on the streets in Canada is just slightly below getting hit by a falling satellite on my list of fears, I don't see political violence being an issue under socialism. Barring, of course, counterrevolutionary actions.


By the way, does anybody know if there are gangs in Cuba? or at least large and serious gangs?There are. Who do you think imports and distributes the drugs? I actually had rum with a drug dealer when I was in Cuba. As long as you have a profitable black market, you will by necessity have gangs. That said, I don't think that they're a big problem, although I admittedly haven't really looked into it that much.

You got a point. But a lot of gangsters actually like that type of lifestyles. They are sometimes in it not just for the money, but for the lifestyle. They can like the "power".Unfortunately, real gangs aren't as cool as 50 cent would make them out to be. Which is why you don't see middle class kids pick up and move to the inner city to sling crack on a whim. Because that's what being a gangster is: working class. And the shit end of working class. Sure, a culture and a mythology builds up around it, but for the vast majority of people in it, it's just work. The only people who think gang culture is cool are people who don't know what it is.

[Self Defense]

Yeah it's been said a few times in the thread but gangs exist for the sole purposes of making money and protecting a piece of turf because gang members crave ownership among others who have it while they were not born privileged families/areas.