Shooting up Universities in America

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Why are there so many shooting sprees in America?

It's actually unbelievable

[JazzRemington]

He wore black (including a black beanie). It was Valentine's Day.

Do the math...

[abbielives!]

are their not shootings in britain?

[which doctor]

I know some people who go to NIU.

[Atrus]

are their not shootings in britain?

Not really; theres one or two memorable ones, but nothing like on the scale of the USA, and the entire country hears about them + its really uncommon etc.

[BIG BROTHER]

I've always thought that live in the US is very stressfull.

[Zurdito]

alienation + guns=shooting sprees?:confused:

[Cencus]

From what I've read Canada has as many guns per head as the U.S.A., so gun availability alone can be ruled out, what is it that's going on in the U.S. thats leading to this? I really have no idea.

In U.K. there have only been 2 gun sprees in my lifetime that I remember anyway, Hungerford & Dunblane. Niether were student on student.

[Morpheus]

I graduated from NIU. First, it should be noted that it's males who are doing all the shooting, so gender clearly plays a major role. I think it's the combination of several factors:

1. American males are socialized to be violent
2. America is the heart of the evil empire. If you're going to have a society that bombs the crap out of other countries then you're going to have a society where lots of people believe violence is okay.
3. The capitalist class is extremely dominant in the U.S. and class consciousness & class struggle and been almost completely crushed. This leads to a situation where many people are extremely alienated and stressed.
4. The lack of a large radical movement means random shootings is one of the only outlets for the discontented.
5. Social connections in the US are breaking down, due to longer working hours. Studies show Americans on average have fewer friends and spend less time with them as compared to 20 years ago.

Combine all factors together = bang!

[RedDawn]

You also forgot the fact that mental health is vastly underfunded. We don't try to catch these problems early.

Furthermore, there is no people's army. Average people aren't trained to fight and campuses are almost always "gun free zones" which means everyone on them is unarmed.

Cho Seung-Hui and others talk mostly about class issues, it is often a rebellion against the image of class, such as Abercrombie and Fitch and Skyy vodka.

[Raúl Duke]

Maybe its some sort of "narodnik" like period for the US that happens right before the big-ass crisis?

I think this phenomena can be looked in many ways.

[manic expression]

I graduated from NIU. First, it should be noted that it's males who are doing all the shooting, so gender clearly plays a major role. I think it's the combination of several factors:

1. American males are socialized to be violent
2. America is the heart of the evil empire. If you're going to have a society that bombs the crap out of other countries then you're going to have a society where lots of people believe violence is okay.
3. The capitalist class is extremely dominant in the U.S. and class consciousness & class struggle and been almost completely crushed. This leads to a situation where many people are extremely alienated and stressed.
4. The lack of a large radical movement means random shootings is one of the only outlets for the discontented.
5. Social connections in the US are breaking down, due to longer working hours. Studies show Americans on average have fewer friends and spend less time with them as compared to 20 years ago.

Combine all factors together = bang!

That doesn't fly. One of the first and most shocking school shootings in the US was done by a female. She opened fire on elementary school kids in San Diego (IIRC) back in the 60's. "Socialization of males" does not cause this stuff.

Secondly, violence in American society doesn't cut it, either. Plenty of countries have just as much violence as the US. Furthermore, violence is not an entity unto itself, it is caused by different things. For instance, riots in French suburbs are sparked by VASTLY different conditions than shootings in American suburbs. The respective causes are completely different. Lastly, have you ever been in an American school? Usually, violence is not tolerated whatsoever (anyone who fights, even in self-defense, is punished), which IMO is a problem. If you let kids fight stuff out once in awhile, the problem gets resolved instead of being perpetuated through petty social behavior.

If you ask me, the most common thread throughout school shootings is just the environment that school creates. Kids get isolated and have to endure constant humiliation in multiple forms. American kids, especially in the suburbs, have very, very few outlets for frustration, which causes people to snap and go crazy (aka "going postal"). It's hard to define the nature of the difficulties of growing up in suburbia, but a lot of kids lose sight of their worth and humanity in the mess of it.

Anyway, it's likely that there is no common cause...these things can be triggered by a wide variety of problems, some of which I probably can't even begin to comprehend.

[w0lf]

The guy was mentally ill and not taking meds..

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

The guy was mentally ill and not taking meds..

thats really stating the obvious.

[Guerrilla22]

It's often difficult and frustrating for people who are mentally ill to actually get help, this is true of college kids as well. Many college kids go without insurance due to the fact that they get kicked of their parents insurance plans one they reach a certain age, that is if they were ever on an isurance plan at all.

Universities offer supposive low cost health insurance plans, which are usually underwritten by some corporation, however these plans usually cost around a grand to enroll in and often are insufficient. Colleges also offer some prescription assistance, however the process is complex, takes forever to iniciate and still leaves the student with a considerable cost, which most college kids simply cannot afford, therefore quite a few people go without necessary medication as a result.

To boot, universities in the US have been increasingly centered around making and profit, not the best interest of their students. Many schools try to create cirriculums that will keep students in school for 5 or more years on purpose to squeeze as much money from students as possible.

I'm not defending shooting rampages, I'm simply saying that there are factors that contribute to shooting rampages, which are being ignored, as the shooters are always portrayed as "crazy assholes who just wanted attention."

[Qwerty Dvorak]

The guy was mentally ill and not taking meds..
I'm sure we have people here in Ireland who are mentally ill and don't take meds. Why don't we have people shooting up schools on a regular basis?

[Dimentio]

I graduated from NIU. First, it should be noted that it's males who are doing all the shooting, so gender clearly plays a major role. I think it's the combination of several factors:

1. American males are socialized to be violent
2. America is the heart of the evil empire. If you're going to have a society that bombs the crap out of other countries then you're going to have a society where lots of people believe violence is okay.
3. The capitalist class is extremely dominant in the U.S. and class consciousness & class struggle and been almost completely crushed. This leads to a situation where many people are extremely alienated and stressed.
4. The lack of a large radical movement means random shootings is one of the only outlets for the discontented.
5. Social connections in the US are breaking down, due to longer working hours. Studies show Americans on average have fewer friends and spend less time with them as compared to 20 years ago.

Combine all factors together = bang!

Really, only males (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POl4vFp-5os)?

[JazzRemington]

WHy people just suddenly snap and go on killing sprees is complicated because individual psychology is very complex and intricate. There are hundreds of thousands of things that influence us every day, many of which we aren't aware of. Psychotic out bursts such as shooting up a school are mostly the result of a series of events that only serve to reinforce and promote such behavior. Of course something could be physically wrong with the brain (chemical imbalance, damage parts of the brain, etc.).

If you really want to figure out why this person shot up NIU, you should look at his personal, academic, family, and medical history as well as perform a good autopsy that examines the brain, and analyze the social conditions of this person (including the general society he lived in in general and that of his various environments he lived in). It's difficult and time consuming, to be sure, so maybe this is why people are just prone to saying "well, he's just crazy," which doesn't help anyone.

[rouchambeau]

He wore black (including a black beanie). It was Valentine's Day.

Do the math...

You mean he was an anarchist?

[Neutrino]

America has a larger population and more guns than most other countries, so shooting sprees will occur at a greater rate. I don't think people are more or less despondent and homicidal in the US than they are in Canada, the UK, etc.

[Robespierre2.0]

It's the school environment in the USA that causes this. Honestly, I think you'd need to go to school in the U.S. to understand.
No, we don't do backbreaking labor or anything like that, but it truly is mentally taxing for people. When you have kids that grow up socially awkward, the pressure of schoolwork combined with the lack of friends is a deadly combination.

Luckily, I grew out of that phase and ended up quite the jolly proletarian without killing anyone, but I can emphasize with kids like that.

[ellipsis]

I dunno apparently in february of this year alone there have been 7 shootings in which 3 people or more have died. I am a gun enthusiast and a former disgruntled student myself, but my fantasies stayed just that, fantasies. i am at a lost to explain this recent rash of shootings. Some on the right as well as myself argue that maybe college students need to be able to carry guns on campus. maybe thats not the answer, just a thought. I hope that it is a sign of the downfall of society and the collapse of this "great" nation.

[careyprice31]

It's the school environment in the USA that causes this. Honestly, I think you'd need to go to school in the U.S. to understand.
No, we don't do backbreaking labor or anything like that, but it truly is mentally taxing for people. When you have kids that grow up socially awkward, the pressure of schoolwork combined with the lack of friends is a deadly combination.

Luckily, I grew out of that phase and ended up quite the jolly proletarian without killing anyone, but I can emphasize with kids like that.

I can vouch for that.

I never killed anyone but came extremely close to it. Honestly, the school environment is DANGEROUS here in North America.

If I ever have kids they will be home schooled.

Society causes this.

[Zurdito]

I never killed anyone but came extremely close to it. Honestly, the school environment is DANGEROUS here in North America.


could you expand please? not because I disagree I am just curious, I've given the topic some consideration many times but never really known any north americans who I can ask.

[Neutrino]

I never killed anyone but came extremely close to it. Honestly, the school environment is DANGEROUS here in North America.


Ummm. ok...

Do you think it's better elsewhere?

[Herman]

Ummm. ok...

Do you think it's better elsewhere?

Come to Europe. There are less shootings here.

[Neutrino]

True. But I was talking about school environment.

[Dimentio]

Come to Europe. There are less shootings here.

Look at the movie (http://rstvideo.com/2007/11/07/jokela-high-school-massacre-fortsattning/)

[Robespierre2.0]

The problem is a result of a combination of things:
1. Pop culture is incredibly pervasive- At home on TV, you are bombarded constantly with advertisements that basically say that if you buy their product, you will instantly become popular. Problem is, it never works, but people keep falling for it. Sensationalist TV Shows and Movies show attractive young people fucking constantly- Kids who see this get this feeling that 'Everyone else is having so much more sex than me, there must be something wrong with me'- This develops into self-destructive delusions.
2. The atmosphere in general is one of authoritarianism and 'groupthink' to borrow a psychology term. Now, I'm not an anarchist, but I do have problems with schools and workplaces being run in an unnecessarily authoritarian manner.
3. Schools seem to be more interested in churning out fresh young workers than actually helping young people become mature, healthy adults. Students who struggle in class or with friends often get the feeling that they're 'hopeless'- a self-defeating pattern of thought.
4. A lot of the kids who actually are 'popular' or 'influential' among their peers are indifferent to the less fortunate around them. Also, these people might read Ayn Rand and become assholes.

[bobroberts]

4. A lot of the kids who actually are 'popular' or 'influential' among their peers are indifferent to the less fortunate around them. Also, these people might read Ayn Rand and become assholes.

AKA sociopaths.

Another factor is that shooting up a school and ending your life is a surefire way to get attention and infamy.

Anti-depression medications are a wildcard, as they can cause a lot of people to become mentally unstable, whether they take them regularly or if they quit using them cold turkey. In my experience, these drugs are proscribed like they are candy. The reason is because you can't just stop using them, so the drug companies hand out free samples to every doctor they can bribe, and those doctors hand them out to anybody who says they feel depressed. It can take months to ween yourself off them, and all sorts of horrible side effects occur if you don't.

[careyprice31]

could you expand please? not because I disagree I am just curious, I've given the topic some consideration many times but never really known any north americans who I can ask.

because our society is made up of classes not just economic capitalist vs the workers ones but social classes as well. and it fosters the concept of us vs them. Inevidably people take the notion that being them means not like us, meaning not as good as us, lower than. us. This makes it easier to justify persecuting them. In our society violence and dominance are more accepted in society, competition more valued. The social needs of people are drastically under valued and of far less imprtance despite evidence to the contrary . In the schools I went to nothing was ever done about any of it and I had no allies. The combination can form springs inside people that coil tightly. and in some persecuted people, that spring can uncoil when pushed to the breaking point with incredible force.

[Kropotesta]

because our society is made up of classes not just economic capitalist vs the workers ones but social classes as well. and it fosters the concept of us vs them. Inevidably people take the notion that being them means not like us, meaning not as good as us, lower than. us. This makes it easier to justify persecuting them. In our society violence and dominance are more accepted in society, competition more valued. The social needs of people are drastically under valued and of far less imprtance despite evidence to the contrary . In the schools I went to nothing was ever done about any of it and I had no allies. The combination can form springs inside people that coil tightly. and in some persecuted people, that spring can uncoil when pushed to the breaking point with incredible force.
I don't see how what you say here is different from any other school run in a capitalist society

[careyprice31]

it isnt really much different