peaccenicked
28th January 2002, 21:27
It is become quite clear to me what the crux of our dispute is all about.
Your fundamental premis is that Capitalism does not exploit workers.ie Libertarianism
My fundamental premis is that capitalism exploits workers ie marxism.
One of us is clearly mistaken.
Now you seem to think that your premis is undeniable.
If so all you will be able to do is declare this ad infinitum.
Before I die of boredom is there any point to this?
Here is your thesis
"Far from being exploiters, the true function of capitalists and businessmen "... is to raise the productivity, and thus the real wages, of manual labor by means of creating, coordinating, and improving the efficiency of the division of labor."2 By continuously improving the efficiency of labor, capitalists and businessmen are responsible for raising wages and creating employment which serve to raise the standard of living of everyone. Furthermore, by funding research and capital investments, corporations and capitalists make possible all of the modern day conveniences, from laser surgery to orchestra halls, that most people take for granted every day. In fact, since capitalists make available so much life-saving and labor-saving technology to so many people, they should be regarded as some of mankind's greatest benefactors. A few capitalists and businessmen have done more to help mankind live a more enjoyable life (indeed, most people would not even be alive today if it weren't for capitalists) than all of the humanitarians, social workers, and clergy men combined. If one considers human life a value, then they should regard capitalists as one of its greatest promoters. (If Mother Theresa really wanted to help people, she should try and accumulate enough capital to start a factory in a poor nation and employ thousands of people who would not have jobs without her.) "
Firstly,Far from being exploiters, the true function of capitalists and businessmen "... is to raise the productivity, and thus the real wages, of manual labor by means of creating, coordinating, and improving the efficiency of the division of labor."
Here you deny the primacy of the profit motive. Do you really believe that the capitalists first priority is workers wages.
Is this an argument for the abolition of trade unions?
What you are saying is a con.
Are you still claiming to be honest.
you are saying trust the capitalist he will take care of you. You want the capitalist to become the State.
we want neither state nor capitalist. We want independence from both. Thus our individualism out ranks yours on all levels. Leave us alone.
secondly, "A few capitalists and businessmen have done more to help mankind live a more enjoyable life (indeed, most people would not even be alive today if it weren't for capitalists) than all of the humanitarians, social workers, and clergy men combined." I take it you don't mean this as blasphemy but you have just rubbished christianity. Capitalists and inventors are two different species. They do not always exploit their inventions for money, that is usually left to some charlatan with dough.
So we have all to be grateful for the goods available in shops and not to humanitarians who waste their time helping people instead of making money.
We are supposed to believe that the trickle down theory works. The gap between rich and poor is getting
wider.
Who are you trying to fool? yourself
because you have no chance of convincing most of the human race and certainly not socialists and those who have taken part in negotations with the profit mad employers who we would trust no more than we trust it's hand glove puppets like you who deny the fundammental reality of exploitation.
(Edited by peaccenicked at 11:24 pm on Jan. 28, 2002)
Your fundamental premis is that Capitalism does not exploit workers.ie Libertarianism
My fundamental premis is that capitalism exploits workers ie marxism.
One of us is clearly mistaken.
Now you seem to think that your premis is undeniable.
If so all you will be able to do is declare this ad infinitum.
Before I die of boredom is there any point to this?
Here is your thesis
"Far from being exploiters, the true function of capitalists and businessmen "... is to raise the productivity, and thus the real wages, of manual labor by means of creating, coordinating, and improving the efficiency of the division of labor."2 By continuously improving the efficiency of labor, capitalists and businessmen are responsible for raising wages and creating employment which serve to raise the standard of living of everyone. Furthermore, by funding research and capital investments, corporations and capitalists make possible all of the modern day conveniences, from laser surgery to orchestra halls, that most people take for granted every day. In fact, since capitalists make available so much life-saving and labor-saving technology to so many people, they should be regarded as some of mankind's greatest benefactors. A few capitalists and businessmen have done more to help mankind live a more enjoyable life (indeed, most people would not even be alive today if it weren't for capitalists) than all of the humanitarians, social workers, and clergy men combined. If one considers human life a value, then they should regard capitalists as one of its greatest promoters. (If Mother Theresa really wanted to help people, she should try and accumulate enough capital to start a factory in a poor nation and employ thousands of people who would not have jobs without her.) "
Firstly,Far from being exploiters, the true function of capitalists and businessmen "... is to raise the productivity, and thus the real wages, of manual labor by means of creating, coordinating, and improving the efficiency of the division of labor."
Here you deny the primacy of the profit motive. Do you really believe that the capitalists first priority is workers wages.
Is this an argument for the abolition of trade unions?
What you are saying is a con.
Are you still claiming to be honest.
you are saying trust the capitalist he will take care of you. You want the capitalist to become the State.
we want neither state nor capitalist. We want independence from both. Thus our individualism out ranks yours on all levels. Leave us alone.
secondly, "A few capitalists and businessmen have done more to help mankind live a more enjoyable life (indeed, most people would not even be alive today if it weren't for capitalists) than all of the humanitarians, social workers, and clergy men combined." I take it you don't mean this as blasphemy but you have just rubbished christianity. Capitalists and inventors are two different species. They do not always exploit their inventions for money, that is usually left to some charlatan with dough.
So we have all to be grateful for the goods available in shops and not to humanitarians who waste their time helping people instead of making money.
We are supposed to believe that the trickle down theory works. The gap between rich and poor is getting
wider.
Who are you trying to fool? yourself
because you have no chance of convincing most of the human race and certainly not socialists and those who have taken part in negotations with the profit mad employers who we would trust no more than we trust it's hand glove puppets like you who deny the fundammental reality of exploitation.
(Edited by peaccenicked at 11:24 pm on Jan. 28, 2002)