Castro, McCain spar over Cuban torture in Vietnam

[RedStarOverChina]

HAVANA (Reuters) - Ailing Cuban leader Fidel Castro took on front-running U.S. Republican presidential candidate John McCain on Monday, accusing him of lying about Cubans torturing American prisoners of war in Vietnam.
At a campaign stop in Miami last month, the Arizona senator told anti-Castro exiles that American POWs held with him in Hanoi were tortured by "a couple of Cubans."
"His accusation against the Cuban revolutionaries ... are completely unethical," Castro wrote in an article published by the ruling Communist Party newspaper Granma.
"The commandments of the religion you practice prohibit lying," he said of McCain, who was raised an Episcopalian and calls himself a Christian.
McCain, a Navy pilot when he was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967, says he was tortured by his Vietnamese captors over more than five years in captivity. Cuba and North Vietnam were Cold War allies of the Soviet Union at the time.
McCain has vowed to keep up decades-old U.S. pressure for political change in Cuba's one-party state. That has included a travel ban and trade and financial sanctions enforced a few years after Castro's 1959 revolution on the Caribbean island, which lies just 90 miles from the U.S. coast.
Castro's criticism brought a sharp retort from McCain as he campaigned in Annapolis, Maryland.
"For me to respond to Fidel Castro, who has oppressed and repressed his people and who is one of the most brutal dictators on Earth, for me to dignify any comments he might make is certainly beneath me," he said at a press conference.
"It's a matter of record and you can ask several of the POWs who had direct contact with some, some thug that came to Hanoi with an underling assistant."
In Miami on January 25, McCain had said: "There's a person I want you to help me find when Cuba is free, and that's that Cuban that came to the prison camps of North Vietnam and tortured and killed my friends. We'll get him and bring him to justice, too."
Castro, in Monday's article "The republican candidate," said he ordered the translation of McCain's 1999 book "Faith of My Fathers" into Spanish and rejected its account of a Cuban nicknamed "Fidel" who could "torture a prisoner until death."
Castro, 81, has not appeared in public since emergency stomach surgery forced him to hand over power to his brother Raul more than 18 months ago. But he has kept himself in the minds of Cubans with a prolific flow of articles.
Castro visited North Vietnam in 1973 to show his support for the communist-led country in the midst of its war with the United States. Cuba provided doctors and military engineers who took part in the widening of the Ho Chi Minh Trail.
Castro said the Vietnam War ended in a disastrous withdrawal by the United States.
"All they achieved was a candidate for the Republican Party 41 years later," he wrote.
(Reporting by Anthony Boadle and Andy Sullivan in Annapolis; Editing by John O'Callaghan)


What I'm really interested in knowing is, how many innocent Vietnamese did McCain kill?

According to Wikipedia,

In Spring 1967, Forrestal was assigned to join Operation Rolling Thunder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rolling_Thunder), the bombing campaign against North Vietnam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Vietnam) during the Vietnam War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War).[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccain#_note-dmr-mccain)[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccain#_note-mccain-185) The alpha strikes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_strike) flown from Forrestal were against specific, pre-selected infrastructure targets such as arms depots, factories, and bridges...McCain's first five attack missions over North Vietnam went without incident.

[RedStarOverChina]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080211/pl_nm/cuba_castro_mccain_dc

Here's the link.

[Red October]

Well, is there any evidence that Cuban interrogators were in Vietnam? A book I read on Che made reference to Cubans in his guerrilla band who had also fought as combat troops in Vietnam, so to what extent were Cuban soldiers involved?

But about McCain, the bombing raids against North Vietnamese Cities killed countless thousands of people just so they could "bomb the commies back to the stone age". McCain is a warmongering bastard.

[Dominicana_1965]

The complete reflection:


Prensa Latina issues below reflections by the Cuban president:
REFLECTIONS BY THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF:
THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE
(PART ONE)
These reflections are self-explanatory.
In that already famous Super Tuesday, a day of the week when a number of States of the Union were selecting the candidate of their choice for the presidency of the United States from among a group of contenders, one of the likely candidates to replace George W. Bush was John McCain. Due to of his pre-packaged hero image, and his alliance with strong contenders such as Rudy Giuliani, the former governor of the state of New York, other candidates had already gladly endorsed him. The intense propaganda of social, economic and political factors having great significance in his country, and his personal style had turned him into the frontrunner. Only the extreme Republican right represented by Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee, in disagreement with some insignificant McCain concessions, was still offering some resistance on February 5th. Subsequently, Romney would also withdraw in favor of McCain. Huckabee is still in the contest.
On the other hand, the struggle for the Democratic Party candidate is much tougher. Even though we are dealing, as usual, with an active part of the enfranchised population that tends to be a minority, we are already hearing all kinds of opinions and speculations about the consequences of the final outcome of the electoral battle for the country and the world, if mankind escapes the warmongering adventures of Bush.
It is not up to me to talk about the history of a candidate for the Presidency of the United States. I have never done so, and perhaps I would never have. Why should I be doing it at this time?
McCain has said that some of his comrades were tortured by Cuban agents in Vietnam. His advocates and publicity experts tend to emphasize that McCain himself suffered such torture at the hands of the Cubans.
I hope that the U.S. people will understand that I consider it my obligation to enter into a detailed analysis of this Republican candidate and to respond to him. I shall do so on the basis of ethical considerations.
The McCain file shows that he was a prisoner of war in Vietnam from October 26, 1967.
As he tells it himself, he was 31 years old at the time and flying his 23rd bombing mission. His plane, an A-4E Skyhawk was shot down over Hanoi by an anti-aircraft missile. Because of the hit, he lost control and ejected over Truc Bach Lake, in the middle of the city, suffering fractures in both arms and one knee. A patriotic crowd, seeing an aggressor come down, gave him a hostile reception. McCain himself says he was relieved at that moment to see the arrival of an army squad.
The bombing of Vietnam, begun in 1965, shocked international opinion, very sensitized to air attacks by the superpower against a small third world country which had been turned into a French colony, thousands of miles away from distant Europe. The Vietnamese people fought against Japanese occupation forces during World War II and, when that war ended, France once again took control. Ho Chi Minh, the modest leader who was much loved by all, and Nguyen Giap, his military commander, were internationally admired figures. The famous French Foreign Legion had been defeated. In trying to avoid that, the aggressor powers were at the point of using a nuclear weapon at Din Bin Phu.
The noble "anamitas", as José Marti affectionately called them, holders of millenary culture and values were portrayed, to U.S. public opinion, as a barbarian people unworthy of existence. In terms of suspense and commercial advertising, nobody can compete with the American specialists. The specialty was used unrestrictedly in the case of the POWs, and particularly in the case of McCain.
Going along with that, McCain later said that the fact that his father was an Admiral and commanded the U.S. forces in the Pacific led the Vietnamese Resistance to offer him early liberation if he would admit that he had committed war crimes; he refused, arguing that the Military Code provides that prisoners be liberated in the order they were captured, and that meant five years of prison, beatings and torture in a prison area the Americans called the "Hanoi Hilton."
The final pull out from Vietnam was disastrous. An army which was half a million strong, trained and armed to the teeth, could not hold back the thrust of the Vietnamese patriots. Saigon, the colonial capital, today called Ho Chi Minh City, was embarrassingly abandoned by the occupation forces and their accomplices, some of them holding to helicopters. The United States lost more than 50 thousand of their precious sons and daughters, not counting those that were wounded. They had spent 500 billion dollars in that war without taxes, always distasteful in their own right. Nixon unilaterally revoked the commitments of Bretton Woods setting the foundations of today's financial crisis. Their only achievement was a Republican Presidential candidate 41 years later.
McCain, one of the many U.S. pilots shot down and wounded in the declared, or undeclared, wars of their country, was decorated with the Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross, Bronze Star Medal and the Purple Heart.
A TV movie based on his memoirs of the experiences as a POW was broadcast on Memorial Day of 2005 and he became famous for videos and speeches on the subject.
The worst statement he made regarding our country was that Cuban interrogators had been regularly torturing American prisoners.
As a reaction to McCain's incredible words, I became interested in the matter. I wanted to know where such a strange legend had come from. I asked that someone find information on the attribution. I was informed that there was a highly promoted book which was the basis for the movie. This was written by McCain and Mark Salter, his Senate administrative advisor, who continues to work and write with him. I asked for it to be translated. This was done, as on other occasions, very quickly by qualified staff. The title of the book: Faith of My Fathers, 349 pages, published in 1999.
His accusation against internationalist Cuban revolutionaries --using the nickname Fidel to identify one of them who was capable of "torturing a prisoner to death"-- is totally lacking in any ethics.
Allow me to remind you, Mr. McCain: The commandments of your religion forbid you from lying. Your years in prison and the wounds you received as a result of your attacks on Hanoi do not excuse you from the moral duty of truth.
Some facts must be brought to your attention. In Cuba, we had a rebellion against a despot who was put into power by the United States on March 10, 1952, imposed on the Cuban people, when you were just about to turn 16 years old, and the Republican government of a celebrated soldier, Dwight D. Eisenhower -who indeed was the first one to speak of the industrial-military complex- immediately recognized and supported that government. I was a bit older than you; I would have my 26 birthday that August, the same month when you were born. Eisenhower had not yet completed his presidential term that had begun in the 1950's, some years after he became famous for the allied landing in the north of France, with the support of 10 thousand planes and the most powerful naval force known up to that time.
It was a war, formally declared by the powers fighting Hitler. The Nazis had launched a pre-emptive attack, without warning and without any prior declaration of war. A new style of producing great slaughters was imposed on mankind.
In 1945, two bombs of roughly 20 kilotons each were used against the civilian populations of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I once visited the first of those cities.
In the 1950's, the government of the United States came to build such nuclear attack weapons. One of them, the MR17, came to weigh 19.05 tons and measured 7.49 meters; it would be carried in their bombers and would unleash an explosion of 20 megatons, equivalent to a thousand bombs like the one that was dropped over the first of those two cities on August 6, 1945. It is a fact that would infuriate Einstein who, in the midst of his contradictions, would often express regret about the weapon that, without meaning to, he helped to manufacture, with his scientific theories and discoveries.
When the Revolution triumphs in Cuba on January 1st, 1959, almost 15 years after the explosion of the first nuclear weapons, and we proclaim an Agrarian Reform Act based on the principle of national sovereignty, consecrated by the blood of millions of combatants who died in that war, the United States response was a program of illegal deeds and terrorist attacks against the Cuban people, signed by the President of the United States himself, Dwight D. Eisenhower.
The attack on the Bay of Pigs followed the exact instructions of the President of the United States and the invaders were escorted by U.S. naval units, including an aircraft carrier. The first air assault with U.S. B-26 planes flying out of secret bases was a pre-emptive attack using Cuban markings on the planes so that world opinion would see this as a revolt by our national air force.
You accuse Cuban revolutionaries of being torturers. I seriously urge you to find a single one of the more than a thousand prisoners captured during the Bay of Pigs fighting who had been tortured. I was there, not in some protected position at a distant general command post. I personally captured a number of prisoners with the help of some assistants; I walked in front of armed squads who were still lying under cover of the forest's vegetation, paralyzed by the presence of the Chief of the Revolution. I'm sorry that I have to mention this because it might appear to be boasting, and that is something I honestly detest.
The prisoners were citizens born in Cuba organized by a powerful foreign power to fight against their own people.
You have admitted that you are in favor of the death penalty for very serious crimes. What would have you done if faced by such acts? How many would you have sentenced for that treason? In Cuba, we tried several of the invaders who, under Batista's orders, had previously committed horrendous crimes against Cuban revolutionaries.
I visited the mass of Bay of Pigs prisoners, --that is how you call the Girón Beach invasion-- on more than one occasion, and I talked with them. I like to find out man's motives. They showed surprise and expressed their acknowledgement of the personal respect with which they were treated.
You should know that while we were negotiating their liberation in exchange for compensation by food and medicines for children, the U.S. government was organizing plans to assassinate me. There is a record of this in what was written by people taking part in the negotiation process.
I shall not go into detail about the long list of hundreds of assassination attempts on me. None of this is made up. It has been stated in official documents circulated by the U.S. government.
What ethics underlie such deeds, vehemently defended by you as a matter of principles?
I shall attempt to delve deeper into those matters.
Fidel Castro Ruz
February 10, 2008.
Time: 6:35 p.m.


Source:

http://plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={5F81996F-9D4F-4ECD-9AA1-A2348D5AFAB8})&language=EN

[FireFry]

He was never tortured, just left in isolation. Like a permanent 4 year time out. Some people can survive like that, other people just go shill and old. See the Great Escape if you wanna know what I mean.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Was McCain insinuating that a country must be held accountable for all unethical actions that it ever carries out throughout its history? Because that would be pretty fuckin hypocritical.

[erupt]

Has anyone heard the story of how he became a POW? Someone had told me that McCain was drowning and three Vietcong were watching him. One saved him claiming he can't let another man die outside of combat. He, obviously, became a POW.

Here's where the story gets sickening. The person who told me this also said so many years later, McCain called the person who saved him a "gook." How ungrateful, racist, and disgusting can you get?

Now, either way McCain's no good, but if this story is true, it just goes to show you how "no good" he really is.

[Sky]

This allegation must be some sort of sarcasm coming from a a bloodthirsty war monger like McCain. It's interesting to point out that McCain was arrested by the Vietnamese after he had been on his 23rd mission of dropping bombs on Vietnamese peasants. This mass murdering, bloodthirsty piece of excretement should've been hanged long ago.

[RedStarOverChina]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3d/Vietcapturejm01.jpg

According to this photograph, there are many people involved in rescuing/capturing McCain. McCain was unconscious.

[erupt]

According to this photograph, there are many people involved in rescuing/capturing McCain. McCain was unconscious.
Ahh, thanks for the enlightenment. Still, though, the point of my story is given none-the-less.

[Labor Shall Rule]

They look like boat people. Where did you get that picture?

McCain was shot down during the Rolling Thunder campaign, where they indiscriminately bombed Hanoi and other densely populated areas.

[Sky]

They look like boat people. Where did you get that picture?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-071009mccain-photogallery,1,7476046.photogallery?coll=chi_news_ politics_util&ctrack=2&cset=true

[RedStarOverChina]

^I think you have to log in for the one above.

I got the picture from Wikipedia's John McCain entry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vietcapturejm01.jpg

[SouthernBelle82]

He truly is. He wants to stay in Iraq another 100 years! :scared:


Well, is there any evidence that Cuban interrogators were in Vietnam? A book I read on Che made reference to Cubans in his guerrilla band who had also fought as combat troops in Vietnam, so to what extent were Cuban soldiers involved?

But about McCain, the bombing raids against North Vietnamese Cities killed countless thousands of people just so they could "bomb the commies back to the stone age". McCain is a warmongering bastard.

[BIG BROTHER]

Yes thanks for the picture too Redstaroverchina, McCain is a hypocrate who acording to his own ethics should be killed. And also, if he claims to be a christian why did he serve in vietnam?

[SouthernBelle82]

I have heard this as well. I've also heard some reports where he told what they wanted and others where he gave false information. I'm not sure what to think about it. I'm just shocked he is for more war after being through all that. You'd think it'd be opposite.


He was never tortured, just left in isolation. Like a permanent 4 year time out. Some people can survive like that, other people just go shill and old. See the Great Escape if you wanna know what I mean.

[erupt]

I'm just shocked he is for more war after being through all that. You'd think it'd be opposite.
He's trying to appeal to the gung-ho, "kill-the-'A-rab'" mentality that many Americans have so he's selected over the other Republican candidates. There's a sad, sad mentality in suburban (and even more so rural) America that being Muslim means your an Islamic terrorist.

[SouthernBelle82]

It wouldn't surprise me. He also apparently has a really bad temper. I listen to the Stephanie Miller show and one guy on there used to work in rightwing radio (he's a producer) and used to live in Arizona and confirmed McCain having a bad temper. This seems to go along with it.


Has anyone heard the story of how he became a POW? Someone had told me that McCain was drowning and three Vietcong were watching him. One saved him claiming he can't let another man die outside of combat. He, obviously, became a POW.

Here's where the story gets sickening. The person who told me this also said so many years later, McCain called the person who saved him a "gook." How ungrateful, racist, and disgusting can you get?

Now, either way McCain's no good, but if this story is true, it just goes to show you how "no good" he really is.

[SouthernBelle82]

Exactly. Jesus preaches to love your enemies and to turn the cheek. These Christian's war mongering make me as a Christian sick to my stomach.


Yes thanks for the picture too Redstaroverchina, McCain is a hypocrate who acording to his own ethics should be killed. And also, if he claims to be a christian why did he serve in vietnam?

[SouthernBelle82]

Sad but true. However I saw this report of a mosque in a town here in TN that got bombed by white nationalists and the response however has been encouraging from the community. However I don't want to hijack the thread so I'll leave with the link. Link- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBVxcpH5D48


He's trying to appeal to the gung-ho, "kill-the-'A-rab'" mentality that many Americans have so he's selected over the other Republican candidates. There's a sad, sad mentality in suburban (and even more so rural) America that being Muslim means your an Islamic terrorist.

[RedStarOverChina]

Also from Wikipedia:


McCain openly used the term "gook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gook)", in reference to his Vietnamese torturers during the Vietnam War, even since his return as a POW.[45] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccain#_note-usnwr73) During the 2000 presidential campaign, he repeatedly refused to apologize for his continued use of the term, stating that he reserved its reference only to his captors.[247] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccain#_note-140) Late in the primary season, with growing criticism from the Asian American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_American) community in the politically important state of California, McCain reversed his position, and vowed to no longer use the term in public.[248] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccain#_note-141). Most Vietnamese Americans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_Americans), who are mostly refugees from the Communist government, did not find his terminology offensive, and overwhelmingly supported him.[249] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccain#_note-142)[250] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccain#_note-143)[251] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccain#_note-144)


During a campaign appearance in Murrells Inlet, South Carolina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murrells_Inlet%2C_South_Carolina) on April 18 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_18), 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007), McCain was asked a question about possible military action against Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran). He responded by singing “Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran” to the melody of the Beach Boys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beach_Boys)' song "Barbara Ann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Ann)", reminiscent of a 1980 parody by Vince Vance & The Valiants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Vance_%26_The_Valiants).[253] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccain#_note-146) When later confronted about the matter, McCain stated, "My response is lighten up, and get a life." Asked whether the joke he made was insensitive, McCain retorted, "Insensitive to what? The Iranians?"[254] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccain#_note-147)

[erupt]

Sad but true. However I saw this report of a mosque in a town here in TN that got bombed by white nationalists and the response however has been encouraging from the community.
This doesn't mean that they don't feel some sort of animosity towards Muslims. Many of the white Catholics I come across use the words "terrorist" and "Muslim" hand-in-hand. Ignorant. At least that community near where you live isn't completely racist.

[metalero]

But aren't U.S. soldiers torturing prisoners in a land stolen from Cuba? How everything relate nowdays...

[erupt]

But aren't U.S. soldiers torturing prisoners in a land stolen from Cuba? How everything relate nowdays...
I believe that Cuba, after the Spanish American War, "agreed" to let America have Guantanamo Bay as a naval base. That was right during America's heightened interest in imperialism. And yes, they are torturing prisoners.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The imperialists took Guantanamo through the Cuban-American Treaty, which was a part of the Platt Amendment (which also stated that the U.S. imperialists could interfere in Cuba anytime they wanted) that they forced on Cuba.

That treaty violates international law... but of course the imperialists ignore international law when they can't use it to their own advantage.

Coincidentally, the Cuban-American Treaty specifically said the U.S. would us Guantanamo for "coaling and naval purposes only, and for no other purpose."