Socialism & Capitalism should work together

[Capitalist]

Schooling, Health Care, Transportation, etc.

Capitalized Socialism is needed to provide for these items! Anything that everyone should have a natural born right to - should be provided by Capitilized Socialism.

Socialisitic Tax Money given to Capitalists to provide human and community needs!

Example - Schools:

"OUR AMERICAN SCHOOLS ARE NOT FOR SALE!"
(If our American public schools were for sale, do you really think anyone would buy them anyway?)

America's "NEEDY" public school system is the perfect example of Communism and the Far-Left at work in America.

-Students are poorly educated and lack discipline
-Poorly trained teachers are allowed to teach
-Many school buildings are falling apart
-On national average, public schools are more expensive to operate than private schools
-Many public schools are dangerous havens where delinquents rule the system and bully other students

What is the solution?

Answer: Privatization, Vouchers, and Testing

The far left has turned these efficient words "PRIVATIZATION", "VOUCHERS", "TESTING", "COMPETITION", "CAPITALISM" into fearsome words through their ingenious propaganda geared for the ignorant and racist public. Many communists and far-left extremists have NO concept of economics. They view the word "Capital" and "Privatization" as evil words.

"BUT NEEDY PUBLIC SCHOOLS NEED MORE FUNDING!"
(No, needy schools need to be ELIMINATED - FUNDING SHOULD GO TO THE PEOPLE, NOT THE SCHOOLS!)

Under the Voucher Plan, Title I funds, which are supposed to aid public schools, would be given as vouchers to ALL parents to send their students to private schools. Title I money would cover tuition to most reasonably priced private institutions and allow parents to choose the schools they want to send their children to. On national average, most public schools are more expensive to operate than private schools. Private schools, unlike public schools, do not have an endless supply of tax money to throw away. Private schools MUST provide a good education within a limited budget or go out of business. Like public schools, most private schools accept all students of different race and income levels. The Voucher Program would eliminate the tuition barrier that prevent poor students from attending private schools.

The Voucher Program would allow ALL children, not just wealthy children, to attend private/efficient schooling. If parents have a CHOICE OF WHERE to EDUCATE their child, why would they choose to send there children to a "NEEDY" school that is crumbling, has large class sizes, poorly paid and trained teachers, low test scores, and outdated resources? The answer is obvious. No parent in their right mind would choose such a school for their child, nor should be forced to by left-wing forces. Only schools that provide a quality education would survive under the Voucher Program. Under the current public school system, low-income parents have NO CHOICE but to send their child to the public school that their child is designated for by the state or county government - Government choice, not parents' choice. Privatization would enable parents and students to have choices.

[RedCeltic]

"OUR AMERICAN SCHOOLS ARE NOT FOR SALE!"
(If our American public schools were for sale, do you really think anyone would buy them anyway?)

America's "NEEDY" public school system is the perfect example of Communism and the Far-Left at work in America.

-Students are poorly educated and lack discipline
-Poorly trained teachers are allowed to teach
-Many school buildings are falling apart
-On national average, public schools are more expensive to operate than private schools
-Many public schools are dangerous havens where delinquents rule the system and bully other students

What is the solution?

Answer: Privatization, Vouchers, and Testing


The American school system is a joke because of states rights and the way it is funded. It is funny how Bush is fooling the right by saying that the bill he passes will give less Govt. control when in fact it will bring more.

The american school sytem is far from a communist one.
it is not run by the federal govt. as it shoud be, and does not provide equal opertunity of quality education for all.

The reason being? Funding! Long Island New York where I live, as schools among the top in the nation... along with schools in California.

What do the areas in these two states that have top level schools have in common?

They pay the highest level of property tax. Public schools are funded by property tax, therefore the more tax paid the better the schools are...

Menwhile poorer states, and distrects have less efective schools because the property tax/value is much lower. Florida is an example of this.

What to do? Put the public school system in the hands of the federal Govt. and not independant states.

[peaccenicked]

Socialisitic Tax Money given to Capitalists to provide human and community needs!


I have to apoligize to 'capitalist', I thought very much that he was not the sincere article, I thought he was a mere bully that had nowhere else to go and all the time he was a veritable right wing republican who believes that public money should be given to the capitalists to run everything for the good of the community.
Now I can see his motives are honest, pure and decent.
It is a real pity that the profit motive interferes with all
his plans.
Say I have a billion pounds and I own your school. Say
I have made a few bad investments here and there.
Say I lost most of it on a very bad run on the Euro. Say
my only way out was putting up your fees and asking for more public money, or if not you would close the school down or send you home for not having the government paying your fee. How do you stop capitalists blackmailing the state and putting your future in jepoardy?

[HardcoreCommie]

This is a basic economic principle, if you read Adam smith's W.O.N. he says the same thing about public facilities.
It's a fallacy to call it socialized capitalis, or the reverse. It's like saying that the New Deal is socialistic, hardly the case, it's basic keynsian economics. Capitalism is not ideological, it is pragmatic.
It is that quality of UN-ideology that socialism should try to duplicate. I don't know exactly how, perhaps by replacing profit's value with that of the aggragate good.

[Capitalist]

Adam Smith.

He was a smart Capitalist.

You Communist need to read more Adam Smith instead of Karl Marx.

My point being is that Private Industry can be used to provide Socialistic Needs.

[libereco]

Quote: from Capitalist on 12:14 am on Jan. 18, 2002
Adam Smith.

He was a smart Capitalist.

You Communist need to read more Adam Smith instead of Karl Marx.

My point being is that Private Industry can be used to provide Socialistic Needs.

even Adam Smith realized (and wrote) that if the Capitalists were let loose, and if they could do whatever they want, they would exploit the poor and so on.

too bad i don't have a quote here :/ I read quotes by him stating that though.

[peaccenicked]

Chomsky on Adam Smith

Wage labor in the United States, wage labor in the mid-19th century was considered not very different from chattel slavery. That goes way back into the classical liberal tradition, I should point out, so servants were not really considered people because they were working for somebody else. Abraham Lincoln, for example, it was his position. It was northern workers, that was sort of their banner in the civil war. The Republican Party, it was its official platform, you can even read about it in New York Times editorials. It's by no means an exotic doctrine; it makes a lot of sense. And it has very deep roots in the enlightenment and way back.

The same is true of inequality. I mean you go back to the origins of western political thought, and I literally mean the origins, Aristotle's Politics, it's based on the assumption that a democratic system cannot survive, cannot exist, except under conditions of relative equality. He gives good reasons for this. Nothing novel or exotic about this.

The same assumption was made by people like Adam Smith. If you read Adam Smith carefully and he was pre-capitalist, remember, and I believe, anticapitalist in spirit, but if you look at his argument for markets, it was a kind of a nuanced argument, he wasn't all that much in favor of them, contrary to what's claimed. But when you look at the argument for markets, it was based on a principle: the principle was that under conditions of perfect liberty, markets ought to lead to perfect equality; under somewhat impaired liberty, they'll lead to, somewhat, a degree of inequality. And equality was taken as an obvious desideratum, you know, a good thing. He wasn't thinking about democracies, he was thinking in other terms.

These are important ideas. They have to be revived, I think, brought back into our mode of thinking, our cultural tradition, the focus of our activism and the planning for how to change things. And it's no simple business. It wasn't easy to get rid of kings, either

[vox]

I haven't seen a capitalist get Smith right yet, which amuses me greatly. Capitalists are even more fun to laugh at than Nazis, because they are so sincere!!! Hee! Brings a tear to the eye, it does. That they've not a clue about Smith only sweetens the icing on the cake.

However, I came to talk about schools.

Capitalist wrote:

"America's "NEEDY" public school system is the perfect example of Communism and the Far-Left at work in America."

I can't be the only one who realizes how completely ludicrous that statement is, right? After all, since schools are locally run, Capitalist has presented us with a conspiracy of Communists and other Leftists somehow secretly controlling the schools! It's beyond bizarre!

In reality, something with which capis are not, apparently, too familiar, the school system has followed the path of all other social programs as the US lurched to the right. Welfare is a shambles, Social Security has had more limitations placed upon its use, and schools have followed suit. Far from being a Left-wing failure, it was only when the US was further to the Left that things were good in the public school system. Indeed, the schools are an example of capitalist class stratification, a very observable example.

Capitalist states:

"The far left has turned these efficient words..."

To which I must ask, what's an "efficient" word?

"Many communists and far-left extremists have NO concept of economics."

That's odd, I say that very same thing about right-wing capis, the difference being I back up what I say. You, on the other hand, make broad, Limbaughesque statements and expect people to agree. It doesn't work that way, Capitalist, not at all. For example, you propose vouchers, but no one, not one of your right-wing allies, has proposed a voucher system that would cover everyone. Indeed, if that were the case, why have vouchers at all? Why not just allocate more funds for schools? Perhaps cutting corporate welfare, always a bigger beast than welfare for the poor, could free up a few billiion dollars. But that would mean holding the rich accountable, and we can't have that, can we?

Facts is facts, as they say, and the fact is that public schools have worked for years and years and years. It wasn't the schools that failed, but the distribution of wealth in society. As the income gap increased, so did the welath gap, and now we're left in our present situation, brought to us exclusively by the capitalist class and its lackeys.

vox

[RedCeltic]

In the United States, a common right wing tactic to sabatoge social programs is to starve them out... then when they fall apart they reply, "See... they don't work... I told ya so!" You don't have to do away with programs, just cut funding of them and sit back and watch them fall apart. What's even more sickening are the people that believe this nonsence.

(Edited by RedCeltic at 10:16 pm on Jan. 19, 2002)

[Hayduke]

I talked with a canadian bout her moving to americ.a...she wants to get her children out there just because of the schools....she says that the education is so bad.......that they learn things 3 years later or some then in Canada......

[aek]

You mean that capitalism and socialism should work together like they do in Vietnam and China? A form of "market socialism" is ridiculous. It is just a totalitarian form of capitalism. China has betrayed the revolution and so has Vietnam. Ask the people in Vietnam how well they enjoy market socialism. Poverty and hardship are their companions, more so then the capitalists themselves!

[bleed3r]

american public schools ALREADY are for sale in a sense. proctor and gamble science series? channel 1? the idea of a captive audience of students being forced to watch nike advertisements and do homework in accordance with material which has been corporatized sounds an awful like "sold" to me...

"Clear-cutting removes trees to make new habitats for wildlife... It opens the forest floor to sunshine... Thus stimulating growth..." -- Jello Biafra on Corporate ownership of scholar curriculum

[Xvall]

Channel One? That reminds me!

" Stand up students,
It's time for the two minute Hate. "

(Edited by Drake Dracoli at 5:45 am on Feb. 3, 2002)