My Comrade *Capitalist*

[Knigel Humdrum]

Have you ever been to Cuba?

or know many Cubans?

[Capitalist]

I refuse to go to Cuba because Tourist dollars are used to make Castro's Military bigger and stronger and Tourist dollars do very little to help the people.

I am half Cuban and half Irish - 100% American (or United States)

I know many Cubans.

All the older Cubans I know that lived during Castro's Revolution - supported the Revolution and celebrated that True Democracy was finally coming to Cuba.

Fidel Castro promissed Democracy.

Many escaped soon after the Revolution, when things started going communist. My mother and my immediate family included.

I know many Cubans that stayed behind and ignored my grandfather's warning. They all came over in 1980 - 1981 during the Mariel Boat Lift.

I know other Cubans that escaped in early 1990 - One defected in Canada during a sporting event/expo that her Cuban roller skating team was participating in and she escaped across the northern border into the United States. Another defected in Mexico when a Cuban Navy ship docked in the Mexican Harbor. He just walked off the ship - found some relative contacts in Mexico and escaped into the United States from the southern border.

Most of the Cubans that left Cuba during the early years of the Revolution (before it became communist) strongly desire to return.

Most of the Cubans that left Cuba during the 80's and 90's have no desire - whatsoever to return - or ever return - even if the island should become Democratic.

Basically a people divided.

Those trapped on the brainwashed, ignorant, poor island.

& Those free living outside Cuba with no place to call home.

[peaccenicked]

Does True Democracy mean to you the rght to get rich
at other peoples expense, or the right to be a hoodlum.
It is only your media who says cubans are brain washed.
so aint you the one that's brainwashed. Did you lose anyone at the bay of pigs, please try not take your grief out on us.

[Capitalist]

Democracy is the right to elect your leaders.

Democracy allows for anyone (over a certain age) to run for certain political offices - no matter what their opinion, race, sex, handicap, or class.

Democracy has nothing to with Capitalism.

However like Capitalism it creates an atmosphere of competition - in which only the best leaders should be elected (although in reality it is the leader with the best propaganda or political party)

Cuba is not a democracy - Fidel Castro is a self appointed president. Only the communist party is allowed to run for elections.

Cuba is a brainwashed society.

Education is governemnt controlled - children are taken away from their parents at a certain age and sent to communist boarding schools.

The Press & Media is governemnt controlled

Television & Radio is governemnt controlled

There are CDR (Defense for the Revolution Police) offices on every corner to keep an eye on any suspicious activity that may be "Counter-Revolutionary" - basically like Nazi Gestapo Agencies on every corner.

There is no freedom of speech

no freedom to bear arms

no freedom to assemble

no freedom of press.

Remember that Pink Floyd song.

"Your just another brick in the wall"

"We don't need no education"

- it all refers to communistic/fascist brainwashing.

[libereco]

Quote: from Capitalist on 8:08 pm on Jan. 16, 2002
Democracy is the right to elect your leaders.

Democracy allows for anyone (over a certain age) to run for certain political offices - no matter what their opinion, race, sex, handicap, or class.

Democracy has nothing to with Capitalism.

However like Capitalism it creates an atmosphere of competition - in which only the best leaders should be elected (although in reality it is the leader with the best propaganda or political party)

[...]

Remember that Pink Floyd song.

"Your just another brick in the wall"

"We don't need no education"

- it all refers to communistic/fascist brainwashing.

1. You arn't talking about Democracy in general. What you're talking about is representative democracy wich is actually a very weak form of democracy.

Democracy doesn't mean "the right to elect a leader" it simply means "Rule of the people", the people, not some rich guy who got into office because he was best at lying and had most money in his back.

2. Also that Pink Floyd song (wich i really like) is called The Wall (Part 2).

and of course it deals with the topics you stated, because thats what was most relevant at those times.
But if you think about the lines "we don't need no education, we don't need no thought control" and then think about the way the Corporate Media is shaping peoples minds (for example in America) maybe you can make a connection.

[peaccenicked]

I think your attention towards cuba needs to be put in context.
This will do.
http://members.aol.com/bblum6/democ.htm

Although you have some valid criticisms
we can see a democratic record better than virtually the whole of south america. States supported by America.
I think you will find that the average cuban is more alert to what is really going on in the world than the average american, if polls were done.
I think I would prefer Fidel s 'brainwashing' speeches. to Gore and Bush constant brainwashing lies. If these
are the best leaders, competition can produce . Well. are you trying to argue against competition.
here is another website that might give you an insight into recent changes in Cuba
http://www.dfn.org/focus/cuba/roque-website.htm



(Edited by peaccenicked at 8:59 pm on Jan. 16, 2002)


(Edited by peaccenicked at 9:20 pm on Jan. 16, 2002)

[PYROMANIAC]

The illegal, unjustifyable trade embargo doesn't help matters...................

[Knigel Humdrum]

Quote: from Capitalist on 8:08 pm on Jan. 16, 2002
Democracy is the right to elect your leaders.

Democracy allows for anyone (over a certain age) to run for certain political offices - no matter what their opinion, race, sex, handicap, or class.

Democracy has nothing to with Capitalism.

***Cuba is More democratic then the US***

However like Capitalism it creates an atmosphere of competition - in which only the best leaders should be elected (although in reality it is the leader with the best propaganda or political party)

Cuba is not a democracy - Fidel Castro is a self appointed president. Only the communist party is allowed to run for elections.

***No he needs to be ratified by the people, last vot got between 94-98% in his favor***

Cuba is a brainwashed society.

***Actually they aren't, I think we see who is from the brainwashed society***

Education is governemnt controlled - children are taken away from their parents at a certain age and sent to communist boarding schools.

***Your point? What is wrong with these schools? Why do the Cubans not find anything wrong with these schools? They have a reason for it and I agree with it.***

The Press & Media is governemnt controlled

***Yes but they also play American movies and many other things, yet also have to compete with Radio and TV Marti illegally cast by the US which incites people to Murder, Riot and Kill. There are also many parties funded by the US. They seem to have competition to me don't you think?***

Television & Radio is governemnt controlled

***Your acting like America doesn't control it's Media***

There are CDR (Defense for the Revolution Police) offices on every corner to keep an eye on any suspicious activity that may be "Counter-Revolutionary" - basically like Nazi Gestapo Agencies on every corner.

There is no freedom of speech

no freedom to bear arms

no freedom to assemble

***Your first statement counters the others, The CDRs are nieborhood assemballies for the people so that they cqan form a better democracy. No one is there to keep an eye on people, they are there to communicate and see what needs to be done. I've been in many of them and saw roads be built, but no mysterious missing people. It's funny living in a rual Cuban community for a year and I never witnessed any acts of atrosity, it's pretty hard to not notice these things huh? There is no Gestappo in Cuba they're Called doctors and Teachers. You should really go and find out for yourself instead of spouting of ignorant things that you really have no idea about besides your own hatred, but I know you won't listen because you have your mind set and you betrayed the revolution for capitalism and a new nice and shiney VCR. The reason why the people got split is because the others we're to attached to personal posessions rather then actual people. If you want material objects over people why be part of society anyways?***

no freedom of press.

Remember that Pink Floyd song.

"Your just another brick in the wall"

"We don't need no education"

***Your a stone in the wall and you need an education***

- it all refers to communistic/fascist brainwashing.



Sorry I just have to say that this is bullshit. I've seen the contary to almost every statement here.

[Guest]

Cuba is a Stalinist country with many flaws. It is almost as bad as the USSR was. I only support true Marxism.

[peaccenicked]

That answer is too simplistic. The word Stalinist is banded about like a label to not think about what is really going on. Firstly marxist cannot neglect the embargo or be indifferent to the welfare state in Cuba which as much as any other countries has to be defended. Marxist dont support the closing down of schools and hospitals which the dominant world force of neo liberalism is trying to push in the market place.
marxists dont run scared of democratic questions but
I look at Nicuagria at the same time I criticise cuba.
The US blackmails the people into not voting for ortega.