Chavez threatens to halt oil sales to US

[Die Neue Zeit]

Chavez threatens to halt oil sales to US (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080210/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_us_exxon)




By SANDRA SIERRA, Associated Press WriterSun Feb 10, 6:23 PM ET

President Hugo Chavez on Sunday threatened to cut off oil sales to the United States in an "economic war" if Exxon Mobil Corp. wins court judgments to seize billions of dollars in Venezuelan assets.

Exxon Mobil has gone after the assets of state oil company Petroleos de Venezuela SA in U.S., British and Dutch courts as it challenges the nationalization of a multibillion dollar oil project by Chavez's government.

A British court has issued an injunction "freezing" as much as $12 billion in assets.

"If you end up freezing (Venezuelan assets) and it harms us, we're going to harm you," Chavez said during his weekly radio and television program, "Hello, President." "Do you know how? We aren't going to send oil to the United States. Take note, Mr. Bush, Mr. Danger."

Chavez has repeatedly threatened to cut off oil shipments to the United States, which is Venezuela's No. 1 client, if Washington tries to oust him. Chavez's warnings on Sunday appeared to extend that threat to attempts by oil companies to challenge his government's nationalization drive through lawsuits.

"I speak to the U.S. empire, because that's the master: continue and you will see that we won't sent one drop of oil to the empire of the United States," Chavez said Sunday.

"The outlaws of Exxon Mobil will never again rob us," Chavez said, accusing the Irving, Texas-based oil company of acting in concert with Washington.

Exxon Mobil spokeswoman Margaret Ross said the company had no comment. A U.S. Embassy spokeswoman in Caracas did not return a call.

Venezuela accounted for about 12 percent of U.S. crude oil imports in November, the latest figures available from the U.S. Energy Department. The 1.23 million barrels a day from Venezuela makes that country the U.S.'s fourth-biggest oil importer behind Canada, Saudi Arabia and Mexico.

Venezuelan Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez has argued that court orders won by Exxon Mobil have "no effect" on the state oil company PDVSA and are merely "transitory measures" while Venezuela presents its case in courts in New York and London.

Exxon Mobil is also taking its claims to international arbitration, disputing the terms it was granted under Chavez's nationalization last year of four heavy oil projects in the Orinoco River basin, one of the world's richest oil deposits.

Other major oil companies including U.S.-based Chevron Corp., France's Total, Britain's BP PLC, and Norway's StatoilHydro ASA have negotiated deals with Venezuela to continue on as minority partners in the Orinoco oil project.

ConocoPhillips and Exxon Mobil, however, balked at the tougher terms and have been in compensation talks with PDVSA.



So OIers (and RevLefters who post frequently here), what's your take on this expression of Venezuelan sovereignty against "judicial terrorism"?

[Individuality]

He can do what he wants. Just buy it somewhere else. The joys of the market place.

[pusher robot]

If he doesn't want to sell, that is his prerogative. We will either have to make him a better offer or seek another seller.

Just the opposite would be true as well. If we decided not buy any of his oil, that is our choice and he would have to make us a better offer or seek another seller.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ Except that the number of "accommodating" sellers worldwide is shrinking. :glare:

Why can't you or your government learn to make better offers (political reconciliation, cessation of PR assaults on Citgo, apologies for backing the 2002 coup attempt, acknowledgement that the "censorship" of blatantly treasonous media elements is fair game instead of abusing the "free speech" mantra, etc.), as replacement oil partners have (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/09/AR2008020901326.html?hpid=sec-world)?

Likewise, there are other, more accommodating buyers out there.

[pusher robot]

I do not make any of those policies, so asking me why I do or do not do any of those things is rather silly. I can only hypothesize that those who do make those policies have other goals in mind than only low gas prices.

[Holden Caulfield]

He can do what he wants. Just buy it somewhere else. The joys of the market place.

ha,
has anybody got knowledge of the united fruit company, this is how they would all act if they had the chance

[Bright Banana Beard]

ha,
has anybody got knowledge of the united fruit company, this is how they would all act if they had the chance

Too bad my grandparent's farm land in Honduras was taken by that company.

[pusher robot]

It looks like this may be intended more for domestic consumption than anything to be taken seriously by the United States. I found out the following information:

Although Venezuela still is a significant oil supplier to the U.S. its relative importance has been decreasing during the last 5 years, going from second to fourth place among U.S. import sources. This is due to the loss of production capacity of the Venezuelan oil industry, a decline brought about by the politicization of the state-owned petroleum company under Chavez. Not only has production capacity declined but also half of the Venezuelan oil exports to the U.S. can only be refined in the United States due to its physical properties. This means that Chavez cannot easily sell this oil to alternative clients such as China or India. For this to be possible these countries would have to build refineries capable of processing Venezuelan oil, something that would take at least three to four years to accomplish, even if they started today.

In parallel with this lack of flexibility Venezuela is facing a decline in its international monetary reserves since Chavez keeps raiding them. These monetary reserves only represent some six to seven months of imports at the current level since Venezuela is now importing close to $40 billion per year, mostly in food. Therefore, an interruption of oil income derived from the cut off of oil supplies to the United States would most probably cause the Chavez’s regime to collapse in less than a year as the result of internal protests, no outside intervention required.

[Individuality]

It looks like this may be intended more for domestic consumption than anything to be taken seriously by the United States. I found out the following information:

Although Venezuela still is a significant oil supplier to the U.S. its relative importance has been decreasing during the last 5 years, going from second to fourth place among U.S. import sources. This is due to the loss of production capacity of the Venezuelan oil industry, a decline brought about by the politicization of the state-owned petroleum company under Chavez. Not only has production capacity declined but also half of the Venezuelan oil exports to the U.S. can only be refined in the United States due to its physical properties. This means that Chavez cannot easily sell this oil to alternative clients such as China or India. For this to be possible these countries would have to build refineries capable of processing Venezuelan oil, something that would take at least three to four years to accomplish, even if they started today.

In parallel with this lack of flexibility Venezuela is facing a decline in its international monetary reserves since Chavez keeps raiding them. These monetary reserves only represent some six to seven months of imports at the current level since Venezuela is now importing close to $40 billion per year, mostly in food. Therefore, an interruption of oil income derived from the cut off of oil supplies to the United States would most probably cause the Chavez’s regime to collapse in less than a year as the result of internal protests, no outside intervention required.
There's really no point in explaining things to them. You see, Chavez is a communist and everything he does good is the greatness of communism. Anything bad or wrong, is because he's not a communist. There's never been a communist country.

I suspect the standards of their "communist society" would hold these flawed standards where some people are just more equal than others.

[Dean]

There's really no point in explaining things to them. You see, Chavez is a communist and everything he does good is the greatness of communism. Anything bad or wrong, is because he's not a communist. There's never been a communist country.

I suspect the standards of their "communist society" would hold these flawed standards where some people are just more equal than others.

Not only do you know nothing of our viewpoints, but you are also completely ignorant of the viewpoints of people like Pusher Robot. I suggest you either stop flaming or leave, because it should be clear to you that people like PR get along fine with us, more or less, despite having such different views, and I doubt you'll find a friend in him any more than you will in any of us.

[Individuality]

Who did I flame?

Should I follow the guiding light of Jazzy boy and call you a fucking idiot and a ****?

You tell me.

[pusher robot]

Who did I flame?

Should I follow the guiding light of Jazzy boy and call you a fucking idiot and a ****?

You tell me.

You're posting just for the sake of being a jerk. You should only post if you have something interesting or insightful to say, and then, if people don't want to talk about it, drop it...until some other argument, when you can use that nonresponse in your favor.

[Individuality]

You should only post if you have something interesting or insightful to say
My post was just as insightful as the person that replied to it.

[Zurdito]

If he doesn't want to sell, that is his prerogative. We will either have to make him a better offer or seek another seller.

Just the opposite would be true as well. If we decided not buy any of his oil, that is our choice and he would have to make us a better offer or seek another seller.

See, that's why I think you are more idealistic than any communist. This doesn't happen in reality. It's just a textbook theory. In reality, powerful blocs like the US, Russia and the EU are constantly threatening, destabilizing and even ovethrowing regimes which "don't want to sell". So what's your answer to this problem? Who will "enforce" the free market?

[Individuality]

So what's your answer to this problem? Who will "enforce" the free market?No one needs to enforce the free market. When America threatens people, they're stepping into market and stepping on people's property rights. It's as simple as that. America doesn't own the oil in Chavezland. America isn't owed oil. America isn't entitled to oil. America just needs to learn to fuck off.

[pusher robot]

See, that's why I think you are more idealistic than any communist. This doesn't happen in reality. It's just a textbook theory. In reality, powerful blocs like the US, Russia and the EU are constantly threatening, destabilizing and even ovethrowing regimes which "don't want to sell". So what's your answer to this problem? Who will "enforce" the free market?


First of all, Russia and the EU would fall into the "seller" category themselves. Second of all, the sole oil-producing country we took military action against - Iraq - didn't sell to us not because they refused to sell, but because we refused to buy. Let's not forget that.

As to who will "enforce" the free market - the international sphere of relations is in most respects a total anarchy, and as such, enforcement problems of all kind exist. This has less to do with capitalism than the fact that there is no one world order. The best you can hope for is voluntary collective-action organizations, like the UN or the WTO or OPEC. Within an ordered society, enforcement is no less difficult than criminal law enforcement - actually, far easier, since the "victims" tend to be highly motivated to expose wrongdoing.

[Dr Mindbender]

He can do what he wants. Just buy it somewhere else. The joys of the market place.
Doesnt Venezuela produce something like 1/7 of all US oil imports?

This is partly why they are afraid to forcibly dispose Chavez.

[TC]

Doesnt Venezuela produce something like 1/7 of all US oil imports?

This is partly why they are afraid to forcibly dispose Chavez.

I was curious so I checked:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

its more like 1/8th but still...given that its the fourth largest exporter to the US it would be hard to replace.

[RNK]

I don't understand why Chavez continues to give them oil and has for the past 8 years. One could almost call it hypocritical that as he's been trumpetting against US imperialism all this time he hasn't done much at all to curtail the billions of dollars of the US empire's much needed fuel.


Second of all, the sole oil-producing country we took military action against - Iraq - didn't sell to us not because they refused to sell, but because we refused to buy. Let's not forget that.

Let's also not forget the Oil for Food program. You didn't want to buy it -- atleast not at market value. You wanted to cripple the Iraqi economy and barter for it at disaster prices for the basic necessities of life.


Within an ordered society, enforcement is no less difficult than criminal law enforcement - actually, far easier, since the "victims" tend to be highly motivated to expose wrongdoing.

Except when those holding the reigns are also those committing the crimes. It's hard to crack down on the crimes of oil companies when the President has a deep history in the oil market (and undoubtedly will for some time after his presidency is over).

[ironguy]

well, i see this with mixed feelings.

the good

- well, it will encourage the USA to go more green. fund research for renewable energy.


- It makes Bush look like an Arse so the republicans look bad also.

- encourages the USA to take a more progressive step into being apart of world politics.

- Shows how not all big business is good.

The bad

- well, crap... higher gas prices

- less food on the table

- more struggling families

- more money out of the paycheck

- Harder times

- more economic depression

- well... this kinda sucks all around...

[Die Neue Zeit]

Well, it has started:

Venezuela halts oil supplies to Exxon Mobil (http://www.guardian.co.uk/feedarticle?id=7304675)

[Bright Banana Beard]

Well, it has started:

Venezuela halts oil supplies to Exxon Mobil (http://www.guardian.co.uk/feedarticle?id=7304675)

I have to laugh some hard because many "economic expert" in bourgeois media say it is very unlikely and they been proven wrong. What the bad news is that the media will not say why they been wrong but how it will effect us.

[Feslin]

I think he shouldn't be in control of that oil in the first place.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

For all you non-US cappies out there, would you support this move on the grounds that it would narrow Venezuela's target market considerably and thus it could possibly cause the price of oil going from Venezuela to non-US countries to fall?

[pusher robot]

For all you non-US cappies out there, would you support this move on the grounds that it would narrow Venezuela's target market considerably and thus it could possibly cause the price of oil going from Venezuela to non-US countries to fall?

That would only be the case if the oil not being sold to Exxon is being sold to someone else. I have no evidence that such is the case. For all we know, he is not able to.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

I think he shouldn't be in control of that oil in the first place.
Why, are you an opponent of democracy?

[Loknar]

My guess is this wont be permanent; Chavez has to know that losing 50% of his oil export economy would be a disaster. Even if we loose 1/8 of our oil imports, it isnt something we cant deal with; it merely means we raise oil prices and the oil companies get richer.

Chavez does need to be careful though; if Exxon refuses to buy the oil again, where will he turn to? In fact, I would argue that if America wanted to, they could force Venezuela into a recession if not outright economic collapse. Chavez can try but I dont think China and India could replace our business (though I could be wrong).