All Capitalists [Archive]

vox

20th January 2002, 04:01

See how easy that was, imperialist? Now I'll show you why you're wrong, just like in that other thread.

See, Jesus (and you said a Christian god, so that's Jesus) didn't talk about freedom. In fact, he spoke of submission--submission to the will of god, right? After all, he is said to have said:

"Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven[/i]."

Not my will or your will, but god's will, which isn't about freedom at all but loving god. And where did he say the Kingdom of Heaven exists? In you. In your heart. It is a direct commandment to make manifest the will of the lord on earth, no?

Verily, and I've spoken of this before on this board, Jesus sets up a dichotomy between the material world and the spiritual world. "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." (Matt. 22-21)

But you think you know better, eh? You proclaim, in your vanity, that the lord would bless a creation of man. And through the other side of your mouth you profess to be a Xtian? By what forked tongue do you speak?

Suddenly, rather than mankind being grateful for the lord's creation, you have the lord blessing man's creation? And if that wasn't enough, you claim that the lord blesses a capitalist nation, when your lord himself said, "Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Here Jesus himself derides the vanity of riches. And further, "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal. But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

And yet you persist with your proclamation and the lord would bless a country that honors all that Jesus found foul? A country that murders civilians and calls it peace? A country that does not forgive her enemies but slaughters them? A country that trains killers to shed the blood of the lord's children?

Sounds like you better have another look at your religion, boy. Unless you're like most people, and treat your "religion" like a superstition, calling on god like crossing your fingers.

vox

Imperial Power

20th January 2002, 04:09

MJM I am a student and work at a part time job. I've always been interested in politics and I recently read a biography about Che. I admire Che's ability to lead and his desire to help people but I dont agree with his ideology. I studied Das Kapital for further reading and then I read about the capitalistic Ideal. That is how came to become a capitalist.

vox

20th January 2002, 04:32

Yep, that's what I thought... How tiresome these pseudo-intellectual capitalist lackeys truly are. This one can't even get his own religion straight, let alone economics.

Typical. And now, boring.

vox

Imperial Power

20th January 2002, 07:42

Vox where do you feel my economics is wrong? I've simple stated 100 years of accepted economic theory. My religion is Lutheran I've got that straight. You dont seem to understand Christianity. The majority of Americans are excellent people. I suppose your an Atheist. No one goes to church anymore; but as soon as they start having hard times thats where they run. Im bored of you as well. You have not proved me wrong only danced around the subject in the typical fashion of a communist.

peaccenicked

20th January 2002, 13:39

They only people dancing round any subject are you and capitalist. You say you don't put yourself on any pedestal but your answer to 8,300,000 people unemployed was that the middle class are better off
in America than anywhere in the world. you say that capitalism works because America is rich when what you mean is that you are rich. You answer to the millions of super exploited people of Arica is be happy with the crumbs of medical help you get. You say you live in a democracy where well over half the population do'nt vote because they are dissallusioned with bipartisan
positions on almost everything. They know it is a two
party state all but in name were all other parties are marginalised and demonised by the media , if not harassed by the State. You came on this site saying we communist believe in a fairy tale world. You live in one mate.

RedCeltic

20th January 2002, 15:33

What makes you think Vox is an Athiest? (I think he is but that's besides the point...)

Do you think everyone in the US is either a Christian or an ex Christian? I said it before... the Unitied States is NOT a Christian nation, and I'm sick of them pushing their religion on everyone else as if it is.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with Christians at all, but I do wish they would keep their beliefs to themselves. I don't walk around saying, "Goddess Bless America"... "May the Gods be with you child.." etc...

And... what do you think the fastest growing religion is in America right now? .... it's Islam!

Wicca is probobly close behind....

And, what on earth makes you think more people would be turned onto a religion because of 9/11? If anything I think more people are looking at it saying how can any God let this happen?

(Edited by RedCeltic at 10:34 am on Jan. 20, 2002)

TheGranma

20th January 2002, 16:45

On the subject on religion...
Jesus was spreading socialist beliefs anyway "blessed are the poor, woe to the rich" and the stories of making the rich share their wealth with the poor etc.

I find the God bless America thing funny when the supposed "son of God" was scolding the rich for poor treatment of the poor.

Imperial Power

20th January 2002, 18:09

I'll say it again the gerneralized idea of all capitalists oppresing the poor is left wing propaganda. What percent of the US do you think works for corporations and they themselves support oppresing the third world. Americans don't want to hurt anyone. Some of us are against are own corporations that oppress people. Many people for instance don't buy Nike shoes or products.

peaccenicked

20th January 2002, 19:42

All Americans are not capitalists . Who on this site has ever claimed that. Can you read? Most people who work for corporations are the very ones oppressed by them.
Top shareholders and excutive management are skimming big profits at almost everybody elses expense.
if you are going to argue that the generalised idea of all
capitalists oppressing the poor is left wing propaganda.
Let's start with financial markets. listen to the mullti billionaire Soros. How does it sound to you? Try take your blinkers off.
'Soros, who has also devoted much of his huge fortune to philanthropic ventures in eastern Europe, was in Stockholm to take part in a seminar on globalisation.

At the seminar Soros launched a proposal for the International Monetary Fund to create funds with the backing of its member states. Richer members would donate their shares to aid projects which would be allocated by an independent board.

"Financial markets are amoral because morality simply doesn't get into it. But a society can't exist without morality and cooperation. That is why we have to do this," he said.

Reuters not a leftwing source.
if morality does nt get into it.what are we supposed to believe that the poor must depend on the charity of the rich.

'The dictatorship of the World bank' and
'democracy' seem to square a circle in your head.
And whats all this about boycotting oppressors. You say people in America do that. Yeh I think we knew that. nike etc
Don't you aprove. You say that imperialism is only partly oppressive. Its only bad eggs.
We have trouble defining our words.
Imperialism=the super exploitation of rich nations of poor ones.
here's the dictionary, which definition do you support
im·pe·ri·al·ism [im pree lìzzm ] noun

1. belief in empire-building: the policy of extending the rule or influence of a country over other countries or colonies

2. domination by an empire: the political, military, or economic domination of one country over another

3. takeover and domination: the extension of power or authority over others in the interests of domination

By all of these definitions are you not a racist who believes innately in the superiority of your own country.
Try to be honest.

(Edited by peaccenicked at 9:09 pm on Jan. 20, 2002)

(Edited by peaccenicked at 9:38 pm on Jan. 20, 2002)

Moskitto

20th January 2002, 19:47

Islam is the fasted growing religion in the world. Despite what people have turned it into, it is in many ways far more liberal than Christianity. Although with both religions it depends on how you interpret it.

Also Islam is more about devotion to God not just believing that only your religion can save you.

peaccenicked

20th January 2002, 20:33

my mistake.

(Edited by peaccenicked at 9:35 pm on Jan. 20, 2002)

Imperial Power

22nd January 2002, 02:05

peace I'm wondering when I claimed all Americans are capitalists?

according webster's new world dictionary

Imperial: having supreme authority

peaccenicked

22nd January 2002, 14:38

Your language is sometimes confusing.
'Americans dont want to hurt anyone'
in the context of the debate it reads
to me
capitalists dont want to hurt anybody.
Are you here defending imperialism or the word 'imperial' which you use next to the word 'power'
It looks like you are being intellectually dishonest.

(Edited by peaccenicked at 3:40 pm on Jan. 22, 2002)

Imperial Power

22nd January 2002, 21:19

Quote: from peaccenicked on 3:38 pm on Jan. 22, 2002
Your language is sometimes confusing.
'Americans dont want to hurt anyone'
in the context of the debate it reads
to me
capitalists dont want to hurt anybody.
Are you here defending imperialism or the word 'imperial' which you use next to the word 'power'
It looks like you are being intellectually dishonest.

(Edited by peaccenicked at 3:40 pm on Jan. 22, 2002)

Reading those last few sentence several times succesfuly gave me a headache. By Imperial I mean supreme authoritative power. As in the United States is the strongest country in the world. Do you undersand?

peaccenicked

22nd January 2002, 22:12

Yes.
What does that prove. The roman empire collapsed.
When rome was the strongest city state.

Dreadnaht1

23rd January 2002, 01:48

Redceltic: "I personally find "God Bless America" to be offensive... the United States isn't a Christian Nation. "

What are you on crack!? The nation of U$A has been one with religion and state mixed since it's founding. It was founded on American genocide and supposedly this genocide was in the name of this God fellow. So already we have that. And when was the last time you thought a Buddhist or God forbid (ironically) an Islamic would ever take office.

IN THIS NATION YOU MUST BE CHRISTIAN TO A.)GET INTO US CONGRESS AND B.)BE VOTED INTO OFFICE AS PRESIDENT.

I do believe the term that would best fit this nation is "Fuck the ammendmants." I mean why do we have a constitution if a high ranking official can simply over rank it. Oh wait, I know. We have it so the richies can pay a judge to put some innocent person in jail. Makes logical sense.

-Dread

Oh, yes, Imperial Power, I highly suggest you change your quote. How about something like: "God Save America." It's far more accurate then the previous one.

Imperial Power

23rd January 2002, 04:04

Peace I was defining my name for you. Just to help you understand. Dread take out any American currency look on the back and tell me what you see.

peaccenicked

23rd January 2002, 22:28

You are telling me what I see but i have been telling you what you are avoiding. but now I see Reagan Lives is doing your dirty work for you. Did you dig this guy up for the occaision . I am kind of touched. if not in the head. However, seriously he is trying to cover up the huge discrepency in wealth distribution in the world.
Are you trying to convince Soros he is wrong.
remember
Financial markets "there is no morality in it" Soros
Why did Soros the mullti billionaire say that.
or did the left make that up.
Is it some big left wing conspiracy to tamper with your mind and sucker you into our 'brainwashing ' program for middle class republicans.

reagan lives

23rd January 2002, 23:09

Right on, peacenick. It's the vast right wing conspiracy at work once again. Nobody is trying to cover up a huge discrepancy in wealth. I am simply trying to show you that it is not capitalism that causes this, but rather the lack thereof.

And, by the way, I suggest that you take a critical reading course. Or maybe get yourself the dictionary that I suggested in another thread. Look up the difference between "amoral" and "immoral." I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Moskitto

23rd January 2002, 23:54

I have no huge problems with your level of right wingness Reagan Lives.

What I hate is the far right, white supremacists like Matt Hale who I am going to kill if I ever see him in person.

Dreadnaht1

24th January 2002, 00:07

Moskitto, I suggest running him down with your car. I dream about running down cappy's all the time. So many...so high gas prices...

-Dread

Moskitto

24th January 2002, 00:22

I don't have a car though.

I'll just hope that someone sees him and pushed him into a river.

Then there's me with my canoe.

hmmm.

Hit-Hit-Hit-Hit-Hit-Hit-Drive-Drive-Drive-Full weight on front of boat.

Mr Hale breaks his neck and drowns.

Imperial Power

24th January 2002, 04:41

Yes, Reagon is a special operative of the vast right wing conspiracy. Peace I should have know you would see through my simple minded plot to over throw the leftest support of this web site. Reagon set your decoder watch for alpha tengo zulu romeo. All is lost.

HardcoreCommie

24th January 2002, 04:54

Peace should take note that far from being a operative dug up by IP, Reagan has been a member of this forum since sept. of last year. Far longer than IP.

peaccenicked

24th January 2002, 16:18

Then it was just a coincidence. Not being a conspiracy theorist I will admit I am wrong on this one.
but to Capitalism not causing the wealth discrepency is denying the very nature of the beast. What are you saying capitalism only exists in the U$A and everyone else needs it to become rich.
Is this the extremely shallow point you are trying to make. You don't seem to have any clear ideas whatsoever.
Soros says their is no morality in finance capitalism
and Reaganlives says by implication that he is talking about amoral indifference. No morality whatsoever means it lacks any morality. Read english not what you want read it as. There is none so blind than those who will not see.
Do you want to read Soros 's critique of capitalism. He has it in a book form. I ll get the title if you are really interested in the truth.

reagan lives

24th January 2002, 19:09

Ho hum.

If there is no morality in a system, nothing in that system can be immoral. Follow your own advice and don't impose your own crackpot ideas on the words of others. I suggest, peacenick, that along with the critical reading course I recommended earlier, you enroll yourself in basic philosophy, economics, and international politics classes. A rhetoric class might not hurt either.

peaccenicked

24th January 2002, 20:07

Talking about twisting the meaning of words
using double negatives and spouting dreary bombast.
You would n't know rhetoric if it hit you in the face.

(Edited by peaccenicked at 9:08 pm on Jan. 24, 2002)

Dreadnaht1

24th January 2002, 23:08

Reagen is correct though. In the American Capitalist Machine we cannot simply say something is immoral since the entire system was built on immorality and has no such thing as morality. Therefore, if the rarest of occassions should come along we could say that that is moral. I'm quite doubtful such an event will ever take place in this system.

-Dread

reagan lives

25th January 2002, 00:59

Argh.

You people must know the difference between "amoral" and "immoral." I know you know what immoral means. However, if you're dealing with a system that has no "morals" (and we'll use the MWC definition: "of or relating to the principles of right or wrong in behavior"), no action can be classified as "moral" or "immoral." Since there are no higher conceptions of "right" or "wrong" in economics, nothing in economics can be considered moral or immoral. In other words, there are no morals in economics. Capitalism is an economic system. There are no morals in capitalism. This does NOT mean that capitalism is immoral. Understand?

vox

25th January 2002, 07:38

Reagan wrote:

"Since there are no higher conceptions of "right" or "wrong" in economics, nothing in economics can be considered moral or immoral. In other words, there are no morals in economics. Capitalism is an economic system. There are no morals in capitalism. This does NOT mean that capitalism is immoral. Understand?"

Yeah, I understand your simplistic and sophomoric philosophizing.

Like all capitalist apologists, your entire argument is terribly flawed, for you rely upon the illusion that the economy is beyond our control. Rather than admitting upfront that WE control the economy, you suggest that market forces are natural laws, like gravity, and we can't do anything about them. It's only with this presupposition that your "amoral economy" argument makes sense.

Of course, you are wrong.

Human beings construct the ecnomic system, it is not placed there from above or below. We make it, and we can change it, as has happened in the past. I'm afraid that, once again, you need a reality check, reagan.

Your argument is quite daft, and falls apart upon the realization that economics is subject to us, not the other way around. Perhaps you could use a bit more schooling yourself, eh?

vox

Dreadnaht1

26th January 2002, 04:04

Nicely stated.

vox

2nd February 2002, 10:33

And once again, Reagan Lies spreads his filth, but is nowhere to be found when challenged. Truly, Reagan and imperialist are not adverseries, but simple, and simple-minded, trolls, seeking attention on the Internet.

How very pathetic of them.

vox

Imperial Power

2nd February 2002, 17:54

Wa! Wa! Wa!

Vox is having a temper tantrum.

You sound like the troll here vox.

ArgueEverything

2nd February 2002, 18:17

not really, no.

Jurhael

2nd February 2002, 19:35

Vox a troll? BWHAHAHAAHAH!!!

Projecting much, IP?

Jibbs

2nd February 2002, 23:14

Wasn't Che communist? So I assume this is a board based of a communist ideals. On the avatars you have Lenin, well he was just a dictator, how did he "help the people"? He killed mass amounts of his own people, he wasn't a communist. Put Franco while your at it.

(Edited by Jibbs at 12:16 am on Feb. 3, 2002)

peaccenicked

3rd February 2002, 00:11

First of all Che was a communist.
When Lenin came to power the socialists had a majority in both parliaments. There was a little matter of 21 invading armies when power was given as a temporary measure to the Bolsheviks.
Lenin is accused of the death of 300 Kulaks near his final days in which he suffered a brain tumor.
I think he may have been misunderstood, as historically the man had a humanistic streak and more than any single person stopped world war one.
Otherwise, you are just being flippant.

Dreadnaht1

4th February 2002, 03:09

Possibly, the under-informed is confused with Stalin. Lenin saved people, as history shows. Che saved people, as history shows. Stalin just took power and killed a shit-load of people, as history shows.

-Dread

vox

4th February 2002, 08:55

No tantrum here, imperialist. I'm just having giggles pointing out that the capitalist sympathizers never have anything to say when truly challenged. Now, if you have an argument, make it, or shut your silly hole.

vox

Xvall

5th February 2002, 02:32

Quote: from Imperial Power on 4:10 am on Jan. 20, 2002
I believe God would bless a country that defends freedom and is full of good people.

Hahaha! Full of good people!? I don't think so, seeing as we arrest more people per year than any other country in the world. If I recall, this country seems to be full of the worst people. It has just about the highest rate for gang activities, and barely ANYONE here give a damn about each other. I don't think that ANY god would bless a piece of stolen land.

- Drake Dracoli

Xvall

5th February 2002, 02:38

Quote: from Imperial Power on 10:19 pm on Jan. 22, 2002
As in the United States is the strongest country in the world.

Possibly so.. But I guarentee you that if a couple of countries like Russia and China decided to go and attack America that you would most definitely loose.

- Drake Dracoli

Dreadnaht1

6th February 2002, 03:32

Actually, Cuba is the strongest nation in the world. Considering the fact that this nation has a huge fucking military but no integrity amongst it's people, cause they're just a big heard of sheep.

-Dread

Red Star

6th February 2002, 05:21

(Edited by Red Star at 6:22 am on Feb. 6, 2002)

Imperial Power

6th February 2002, 05:23

Drake I didn't know you were a military anaylist. I'd have to say your wrong though. The US is still light years ahead of both in weapons technology. Perhaps you didn't know this but Bush has increased military funding to greater then it was in 1980 during the height of the Cold War. And are you fogetting NATO and the United Nations as well?

Dreadnaht1

8th February 2002, 02:35

NATO? You mean Nationalist Americans Taking Over? Nothing like a mindless bunch of 'elite' right-wingers.

And what the hell is their to improve upon in the ways of weapons? A gun is a gun, you can't really better something that shoots shrapnel in a controlled area at 4x the speed of sound. The U$A is advancing their weapons to a point where every soldier will have the capability to destroy a small nation. Not very smart people.

-Dread

Imperial Power

8th February 2002, 20:56

Dread I'm sorry but rifle technology lead warfare in the 20th century. There are ways you can " really better something that shoots shrapnel in a controlled area at 4x the speed of sound” There advancing their weapon to the point were each soldier is an s effective as possible. In heard figures that 1 US soldiers fire power is equivalent to 10 taliban.

peaccenicked

8th February 2002, 21:10

IP boasting of military superiority.
Is that because your boast of "superior" reasoning has fell flat on its face

Imperial Power

8th February 2002, 21:16

Nothing is wrong whit my reasoning, or capitalism. It's based off facts and results, the socialist idea is based off untested theory and denying human tendancy.

peaccenicked

8th February 2002, 21:38

What I really like about America is the poineering spirit.
Its ability to overcome insurmountable barriers. To bodly go were no human has gone before.
Since when was capitalism based on facts.
Its based on pillage looting, gangsterism, prostitution,
and political con artists, sociopaths, and coporate greed and power. The facts can go to hell for all these people care. It is not about untested theory but how to stop the world from becoming a garbage can on the verge of self destruction. What kind of cosy little pillow do you hide your head under.