Republican Senators dine with Fidel Castro

[Capitalist]

Senators Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island, and Arlen Specter, of Pennsylvania, said that President Fidel Castro told them he was interested in cooperating with the United States in drug interdiction efforts and the war on terrorism.

These are REPUBLICAN Senators doing this!

Republican senators meeting with Fidel Castro!

This is bullshit !!! - smells like an opening to begin another slave labor country for USA.

Watch out China! - here comes Cuba!

"Made in Cuba"

looks like another flood of cheap communist bullshit goods made with good old fashion communist cheap/slave labor will be making it's way to USA soon!

[Mclaren]

I though that the U.S. wanted to crack open the lungs of the chinese and fill it up with Marlbro cigrates?

[Moskitto]

For the 4th time, Fair Trade orange juice which is distributed by Traidcraft is grown in Cuba.

If its fairtrade it cannot be produced by slaves, Don't you get it?

here's the website if you still don't understand. http://www.traidcraft.co.uk/juice/index.html otherwise please stop speaking crap.

Anyway, The nice book Mclaren got me (Thanks to him) lists the top ten for workers excluding unpaid workers and China is the top with 750,000,000 workers. Which isn't the overwhelmingly huge amount of slaves that you perseve China to be.

[Capitalist]

FAIR TRADE MY FAT ASS!

If you grow 100 oranges and the government takes 90 of them and leaves you the remaining 10 oranges - do you call that a fair trade?

Fairtrade should be called Fidel's Capitalism.

If Cuban Farmers meet the government quota, the remaining oranges can be sold for profit. In other words farmers now have self-incentive to grow these oranges unlike before when the government would take all 100 oranges not just 90. Of course why grow a 100 oranges if the government takes all 100 - why not grow 0 oranges - either way the farmer was left with 0 oranges. But now if the farmer grows 90 oranges - any extra oranges the farmer can keep for himself and sell for money. Fidel has finally - after many years allowed some Capitalism on the island.

The reason:

Capitalism WORKS!

[Moskitto]

OK LETS GET 1 THING STRAIGHT.

If you think that Traidcraft is using false advertising then why don't you sue them? That's a good American response. It's clearly false advertising.

I think you'll find that they know A hell of a lot more about it than you do And guess what? It is fairly traded, If it wasn't fairly traded then guess what? They wouldn't be allowed to sell it. It's called marketing laws, you can't sell something claiming it's something that it isn't, therefore Fairtrade Orange juice is grown in Cuba. Unless you want a court case which you will lose.

Where are your sources showing the crap you post? I've given you examples of Orange Juice which has been traded fairly. You haven't shown anything. Why don't you use sources, you look more credible.

[Capitalist]

Cuba has been falsely advertising since 1959.

The oranges are grown in Cuba (I never said they were not).

Fidel Castro (Cuban Government) takes the bulk of the oranges from the farmer.

The oranges are then sold to fairtrade.

The money from selling the oranges goes to Castro and his military.

[Moskitto]

It's not Cuba who's advertising it's Traidcraft and the Fairtrade Labelling Organization.

And like I said, It's violating the law so why don't you display you facts to trading standards and they'll do something about it. I'll find you their website for you.

You're theory seems long fetched for a major organization not to notice but Trading standards should be able to sort out your concerns.

remember http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk is the address. You'll probably be able to complain there.

[HardcoreCommie]

You know we spend so much of our breath making the case that communism has never existed. That the states of the eastern block, China, North Korea and Cuba, were not really communist but rather state capitalist, fascist, etc.

Why then do you spend any breath supporting Castro's Cuba. There is no excuse for such hypocracy. Pragmatically it can't be justified as the crimes of Castroism marginilize marxism. Ideologically we should stick to our guns and withdraw our moral support from a state which epitomizes, in its state capitalism, what we fight against.

Those of you that continue to support Castro's Cuba should simply realize that you are defining socialism/marxism/communism as a totalitarian and oppressive ideology.

[Capitalist]

Very Well Said.

This has got to be the first communist I actually respect.

[Moskitto]

I don't actually support Cuba. I'd just like him to stop saying crap about everyone being slaves when there is evidence to the contrary.

It's probably about as good as this dump. urgh Tony Blair. well the only real difference is that here we think we've got democracy and we don't but in Cuba everyone knows they haven't got democracy.

[Capitalist]

You know nothing about the hardships in other countries.

You think communism is the answer.

It is the problem.

[Moskitto]

You don't understand anything do you.

I've been to other countries. Americans in general haven't. 90% of you don't even have a passport, 75% haven't even left your own state.

The problem with America is that they don't see that the rest of the world doesn't see them as normal.

Have you ever seen someone so poor that they try and sell you rocks that they've just picked up? Did you know that if you're white and you go to any country outside North America and Europe, you'd be hassled so much? Because your rich, and a Capitalist

Did you know that 1 person dies every 3.4 seconds while there's food mountains of stuff that can't be sold. It's called Capitalism. It's not your duty to have social responsibilities, only to look after shareholders.

Did you know that because it's uneconomical (Uncapitalist) to slaughter a whole herd of cattle 50,000 people might die in the UK?

Face it, the bottom is falling out of the world coffee and cocoa markets. Do you see prices going down? Do you know what that means? Corporations get more revenue, farmers loose out. Does this system sound good to you?

[Capitalist]

Blah - Blah - Blah

Everything you complain about is due to a LACK of Capitalism.

How is Capitalism responsible?

I live in the United States - we do not travel out of the United States very often because it is such a large nation. Unlike Europe - made up of several different small and divided countries. I don't need a passport to go across the Texas-Louisiana Border. That may explain the difference.

Our countries (or states) are United - which is why we are so much stronger than you over there in Europe.

As for myself - I have been to Mexico and Europe. Mexico's problems are due to corrupt politicians. American Capitalism is taking the poverty out of Mexico.

[CommieBastard]

Actually, the Cuban democratic system is more democratic than that in the UK...

*shrugs*
anyway, i suppose even moskitto sometimes falls into the trap of beleiving the capitalist biased media *sighs*

and omg, i have just seen this latest post by capitalist and i think im going to puke...

since the fuck when did the strength of nations matter? since fucking fascism is when. you are displaying here crude politik, rabble rousing, and worst of all neo-nazi beleifs.
As for mexico being improved by capitalism...
a while ago the US invested in a scheme to invest enourmas quantities of green paper into south american coiuntries to discourage them from communism by improving their societies.
over 20 years of reforms carried out by the USA on capitalist infrastructure etc, only one country met it's goals, and that country was the single country which the USA hadnt funded, thats right, Cuba.

and great dismissive powers, really tackling the issue in order to throw it out there, with you blah blah blah...
the drone in my ears make me truly quite deppressed, really, it does....

[Moskitto]

Look capitalist, this is how it works.

You've got a choice, You want to sell a product for £10.00, Do you pay someone £0.20 or pay someone £5.00 for the same work? Go on which do you do?

Capitalism is designed to make money. If you pay them £0.20 you make more profit, yes £4.80 more than if you paid them £5.00.

As Mr Birling said (If you can use Animal Farm I can use an Inspector Calls.) "That's the way to do business, bring prices up, put labour costs down."

Now with you worker who's being paid £0.20 for the work he does. He has to buy some food for himself and his family. Because he's only being paid £0.20 he cannot buy as much as the £5.00 worker.

Now let's move onto food properly, A loaf of bread costs £0.39. This means that your worker has to make 2 of the product to get food for himself. However he's got a family, The average family size in Africa is 6 children. This means that you're worker has to 16 products before he can feed his family. Meanwhile our nice business has a nice £156.80 profit. He can now buy himself many loaves of bread to feed his family of 1 child, They can now gorge themselves while slowly their hearts begin to be blocked up by all the butter they're speading on those nice thick sliced loaves.

Now this African who can't possibly produce 16 products, can't feed his family. Now he has some daughters, so they can start work as say prostitutes. They can go around and get money for sleeping with people Now say he's got 3 daughters, Each of them can charge say £0.80 a night because people are so poor their rates can't be too high. Under this arrangement, both daughters will get AIDS, die and the family will no longer have the extra amount of income.



It's simple economics, In a system based on accumulation of wealth, You buy at the cheapest prices possible and sell at the most expensive prices possible. If it's too expensive to slaughter a whole herd of cows, then you won't do it, If it's cheaper to burn F+M infected carcases than bury them, then you'll burn them. Simple? Read Rand or Freidman's books about what the responsibilities of businesses are and remember his most famous quote.

"The only social responsibility for businesses is to make a profit for their shareholders."

My brother came accross one of these types. You know the "social security systems are oppressive" nut. He just told him a few simple words, "Tell it to the Old, Tell it to the Poor, Tell that to the Homeless, Go on I dare you to."

[HardcoreCommie]

but you're assuming that someone works for .2 pounds instead of for 5 pounds. The other party has a say in the exchange.

Now why can't the african produce 16 loaves. It's because he doesn't have the technology to do so. The reason he doesn't have the technology is because he doesn't have capitalism.

It's necessary to have capitalism to produce wealth what good is communism if in the end equitable distribution will be applied to a pitance. You need to have a lot in order to share it.

[Kez]

The reason y the african cant buy technology is because the capitalist is sucking every last penny outta the poor african, hence the african cant develop and COMPETE against the imperialist capitalist, therefore by squeezing every penny outta the african, the capitalist get loadsa money, the african meanwhile cant stand on his own 2 feet, to get technology and stop being exploited by the glablising motherfucking imperialist capitalists.

comrade kamo

[Moskitto]

You're partly right there. I should have been a bit more specific instead of using the word "product."

But it is true that there are many people in Africa who earn less than what I spent today (Well not me because I didn't spend anything today). But your like average Joe on holiday.

[Imperial Power]

Africa is like it is because so many of them have lived the same for 3 thousand years. I don't know why they didn't try to gain more technology. And to quote from Che Guevara himself he said the congo soldiers were lazy and afraid to fight. Not to say they're all like that but maybe they prefer a simpler life style. Preserving their culture I suppose.

[Moskitto]

I heard one theory why Africa isn't as developed as the rest of the world.

The rest of the world (particularly europe) was more crowded so there was more competition.

But then again in the north in Egypt they were very advanced until they were conquered by various people. But that's probably more locational like the main reason why western europe has generally been richer than eastern europe, Because Western Europe was next to the sea and had a wide area it could trade with whereas the east was trapped between the west and siberia.

[MJM]

I'd say a few thousand years of raiding and kiddnapping the population would be a large factor in why africa is how it is.

[Son of Scargill]

"When the white man came~he had the bible and we had the land~they said"Let us pray"~when we opened our eyes~we had the bible and theyhad the land"

Archbishop Tutu



Texas~Louisiana?what the diferrence is their some great cultural divide we don t know about?

[Mclaren]

Africa is being helped and anway so countries are ok and some are not. Its called the green revloution the get to incrase fodd production so they can make more food sell it and then put the money back into the farm

[Mclaren]

Don't african have low value products so they canonly get not very much money for it I know that its unfair that they get the materils and that we then turn it into things. Any way hasen't the desire to make more ooh I'm sorry EVIL MONEY is some people opion leand them to supply lots of new inventiones and technology e.g. china and other LEDCS coutries.

[I Will Deny You]

It's accepted among all economists that no matter what you do, the economy will never stay the same. It will always go up and down a little bit due to factors outside man's control.

The same can be said about the skin color of the most "advanced" race. It was black, then it was olive, then yellow, then brown, then white . . .

And Imperial Power, to say that many Africans have lived the same way for 3,000 years is incredibly ignorant. I don't know if you're racist or uninformed or just trying to piss us off, but if you learn some African history you'll learn about how the entire continent has changed so much. While the first civilizations were developing in the Middle East and the Egyptians were setting the standards for today's civilization (even David Horowitz's *****, Richard Poe, wrote a book on it) the Master Race was practically throwing their poo at each other. Plenty of Greek and Roman generals who led expeditions in the area have written about it.

Who knows? Maybe in 3,000 years, the world will have been conquered by black folk and the descendants of most of the people who post here will be working in sweatshops for .25 an hour, or maybe AIDS will kill off almost all of the Africans.

[Knigel Humdrum]

I support Cuba

Also when you look at Cuban election you'll see that they actually have a better Democracy then America

[MJM]

I will deny you - Regarding AIDS.
I saw on discovery that some african women are genetically immune to AIDS.These woman were prostitutes and very high risk yet didn't get HIV or AIDS.
They were all related so I don't know how far reaching the immunity in Africa will turn out to be,very interesting none the less.

[Guest1]

They had the virus, it just wasn't possible for it to activate. Somehow, it was prevented from doing anything.

[MJM]

Weren't the white blood cells killing it when it attacked the body-something about the genetics of the white blood cells?
I'm sure they were immune, I'm probably wrong though it was late at night about 2 weeks ago.

[Moskitto]

I saw on tommorows world something like that.

There's 2 people in the west who are like that, One of them is a Writer from Norfolk and the other is a gay man from LA.

The gay man from LA what happens is the virus instead of going into the cell and replacing the nucleus, it just sort of bounces off.

[Edelweiss]

#Moderation Mode



Moved here (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=2)

[Dreadnaht1]

Capitalist, you seem to be the type who enjoys a good flight. Now go fly over Havana dropping anti-Castro leaflets and get your ass blown off. I, and the surrounding spectators as well as Castro himself would have a jolly laugh.

::Laughs Heartily::

-Dread