Further Profiteering of Football(Soccer)

[Coggeh]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11678_3117424,00.html

Premiership teams have voted to have extra game in the premiership in a different country mainly Asia ones as part " of the globalization of sport"

Disgusting .

[Wanted Man]

What's the point of that? As if English clubs aren't scheduled a lot already. Having to play 39 league matches with no winter recess, as well as the FA Cup, League Cup or even European football... damn! The Dutch premier league is comparatively easier, with 34 matches and only one cup, although the Dutch FA did introduce retarded "playoffs" for European football a couple of years ago. Because of those, games are played on Christmas, and go on until April for those teams unfortunate enough to have to play playoffs. Imagine if Ajax and Feyenoord finish 2nd and 3rd, they have to play two more games against each other. That just completely devaluates the "classic" that is Ajax vs Feyenoord.

[Zurdito]

Why is it disgusting?

[spartan]

Why is it disgusting?

Its disgusting because it is for the sole purpose of making more money for the clubs involved in this, its owners and whichever TV network gets to host it (Most probably Murdochs Sky) and all of this is at the expense of the fans!

It will also lead to a widening seperation, both financially and in terms of a teams skill (Seeing how the best players usually cost the most, making the richer clubs only able to afford them and their superior services), between teams who consistently finish in the top half of the league (Who will profit from these extra matches) and teams who finish in the bottom half of the league.

I personally think that to many games are being played ATM, and that it should be cut down to just one game a week (Every Saturday) and that would be including cup matches.

Cup competitions shouldnt have two legs or replays, it should just be one match which, if it is a draw after 90 minutes, should have extra time and penalties to decide the winner of the match there and then.

You see how many players have been dying recently, and it would be stupid not to connect the very hard training and playing schedule that these players have, with this worrying rise in on-field deaths of many Football players.

[Zurdito]

Its disgusting because it is for the sole purpose of making more money for the clubs involved in this, its owners and whichever TV network gets to host it (Most probably Murdochs Sky) and all of this is at the expense of the fans!

how is it at the expense of the fans? no less games are played in England, and this way people in Asia get to see Premiership football.


It will also lead to a widening seperation, both financially and in terms of a teams skill (Seeing how the best players usually cost the most, making the richer clubs only able to afford them and their superior services), between teams who consistently finish in the top half of the league (Who will profit from these extra matches) and teams who finish in the bottom half of the league.

Probably everyone will profit. The seperation is a shame but it's already happened. Chelsea, Man Utd Arsenal and Liverpool are in a different financial league to everyone else. This won't make that much difference, if any.



I personally think that to many games are being played ATM, and that it should be cut down to just one game a week (Every Saturday) and that would be including cup matches.


my dad says that, because he wants the players rested for internationals so England can win matches.




You see how many players have been dying recently, and it would be stupid not to connect the very hard training and playing schedule that these players have, with this worrying rise in on-field deaths of many Football players.


they can go get jobs in Tesco's if they don't like it. Plenty of people would take their place. :p

Also, here's my idea about dealing with the gap between the clubs: do what happened in Argentina: two championships per season of 19 games. In Argentina plenty of small clubs win the league. However if yout ake the season as a whole (38 games) River and Boca would have won every one for the last ten years or so. In Britain, I bet a lot of teams like Villa, Everton, Man City, Bolton etc. who have had good half seasons over recent years, would have been in with a real chance if they only had to keep it up for 19 games. They'd have put their entire effort into those 19 games, whle the big clubs, worried by Europe etc., wouldn't be able too. We'd see much mor einteresting tournaments that way. Playing the best 19 games of your life is possible for a smaller club, over 38 they have no chance.

[Coggeh]

The point is their going to be playing an English league game in ASIA , its idiotic , its their mainly just so they can make money their are going to be no real fans at that game just a bunch neutrals going for a day out , this also means one team will play another 3 times , what happens if arsenal get chelsea and man utd get wigan , a tad unfair . It makes no sense to do this their just copying the NFL its a sad excuse to make more profit .

[Zurdito]

The point is their going to be playing an English league game in ASIA , its idiotic , its their mainly just so they can make money their are going to be no real fans at that game just a bunch neutrals going for a day out ,

that's so internationalist of you:rolleyes:

seriosuly, the Premiership is a business, complaining about this is like complaining about McDonalds introducing a new meal deal.

And yes, I did grow up in a football loving family, so don't tell me how I "don't understand" ;)

[Global_Justice]

its nothing to do with being nationalist/internationalist. i support tottenham and its bad enough theres constant rumours we might leave tottenham and play at wembley or whatever, but playing league games the other side of the world? its crazy. its a working class game and since the premier league was invented its changed so much, and this is just too far and is turning it into some sort of travelling circus. the gap between the prem and the football league will become even more enormous, its already bad enough with clubs facing liquidation. and on top of that it removes the equality of fixtures, the point is that every1 plays every1 else twice. and the fact they will fix the fixture draw so the top teams wont play each other sums it all up, how can they possibly suggest fixing the fixture list to favor bigger teams?

[Holden Caulfield]

Zurdito it is wrong as they are doing it to exploit more people not to let more people see good football, they are just creating new markets and luring people to spend money chasing the bright lights,

football at its best is local, i support my local team and follow bigger clubs on TV, so should people in asia

no this is not a very international attitude but in a way it is more so as it promotes everywhere to increase its own game and its own social and cultural customs with this and not push ours upon them

[Brady]

Zurdito it is wrong as they are doing it to exploit more people not to let more people see good football, they are just creating new markets and luring people to spend money chasing the bright lights,

football at its best is local, i support my local team and follow bigger clubs on TV, so should people in asia

no this is no a very international attitude but in a way it is more so as it promotes everywhere to increase its own game and its own social and cultural customs with this not push ours upon them

Exactly. A lot of people in the other continents have already said they dont want the Premiership teams to come over as it will undermine their own domestic leagues which are trying to take root.

[spartan]

Here is an article on this matter by Marina Hyde of the Guardian newspaper:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2255105,00.html

Its a great read and some of the comments left by people at the bottom are well worth the read as well.

Does anyone find it a bit suspicious that the Premier League suddenly wants to start playing games outside of Britain, to attract foreign markets, just as the western world is heading for a major economic recession?

Anyway if Football ends up fucking itself into the grave with all this foreign adventure shit, then at least i still have Rugby:)

[Devrim]

i support tottenham and its bad enough
Yes, I can understand that comment.
Devrim

[Global_Justice]

haha

[RedAnarchist]

If they go ahead with this, what will happen if a team gets relegated because they lose their extra match?

If you showed a footballer from 100, 50 or maybe even 25 years ago what football is like nowadays, it would probably be alien to them.

[Vanguard1917]

There's nothing 'disgusting' about this. The globalisation of the Premiership is far better the alternative: its parochialization.



I personally think that to many games are being played ATM, and that it should be cut down to just one game a week (Every Saturday) and that would be including cup matches.

Cup competitions shouldnt have two legs or replays, it should just be one match which, if it is a draw after 90 minutes, should have extra time and penalties to decide the winner of the match there and then.

You see how many players have been dying recently, and it would be stupid not to connect the very hard training and playing schedule that these players have, with this worrying rise in on-field deaths of many Football players.


Lol. Is this a serious point?

[Vanguard1917]

If you showed a footballer from 100, 50 or maybe even 25 years ago what football is like nowadays, it would probably be alien to them.

Most likely. On the positive side, the quality of the play itself would seem infinitely higher. For example, long gone are the days, even in England, when teams could win top prizes by just employing the vulgar long-ball tactic.

What's changed for the worse is the terrace culture, with herds of police and stewards watching over us and telling us how we can and cannot support our clubs, whether we can or cannot stand up, and whether or not the songs we sing and the banners we put up are adequately PC.

[Wanted Man]

What's changed for the worse is the terrace culture, with herds of police and stewards watching over us and telling us how we can and cannot support our clubs, whether we can or cannot stand up, and whether or not the songs we sing and the banners we put up are adequately PC.
I agree. It's unique British cultural heritage to sing about how it's better to be a Paki than a Jew. :rolleyes:

[Zurdito]

I agree. It's unique British cultural heritage to sing about how it's better to be a Paki than a Jew. :rolleyes:

It's a complicated question.

The days of Heysel and Hillsboroguh, or of terraces being home to NF paper sellers, ar enot something I would be nostalgic for.

However, I go to matches in Argentina, and they are jsut more fun than in England. Call me a romantic or whatever, but the English football experience these days seems Americanised and castrated.

I'm not endorsing macho values here. And yes I am being subjective, fair enough. But I still get the feeling that English high level football games these days are dystopian, you are boomed at by speakers, there are huge screens shoving corporate messages or bland "news" down your throat, and there is no space for supporters to express their own grass-roots culture. And surely if that culture is macho and racist, then it is up to society to challenge thoseproblems, not up to the state and the clubs to simply force a manufactured, top-down "family atmosphere" on everyone, whilst the violence inherent in capitalist society is simply forced out of the grounds and into other avenues, like pubs and town centres.

[redarmyfaction38]

I agree. It's unique British cultural heritage to sing about how it's better to be a Paki than a Jew. :rolleyes:
you miss the point! football has been "gentrified", the ordinary working class football supporter is reduced to paying rupert murdoch for the privilege of watching his team on telly whilst the middle and upper classes wgho have no real loyalty towards the local team are the only ones who can afford a match ticket.
the result of this shift of the fan base has seen clubs go into administration, working class supporters of football clubs see themselves as part of the club, the middle and upper classes see the football club as entertainment and desert their "chosen team" the moment it fails to live up to their wishes.
this might not seem like a political comment, but it is a reflection of the differences in expectations between the working class, who stay loyal to their friends and football teams regardless and the attitudes of the middle and upper classes who are only interested in "success".
asa for your comment about the apparent "racism" of the average football fan, how come both watford and plymouth argyle supporters reduced a nigerian immigrant to tears with their protest against his expulsion from this country?
if you live in football world, you will recognise that football fans will say anything to put an opponent off and reduce his ability to perform, its called gamesmanship.

[Wanted Man]

Edit: in response to Zurdito

For sure, the English situation is different from here. Football here has (officially) been very a-politicized for a long time, although Nazi groups are always on the lookout for football supporters to recruit. And surely, there are some differences: recently, a club here banned supporters who beat their drums too loudly. But "Ulster Volunteer Force" banners are a different matter entirely. I do not want to identify with such people as "we" just because they also support their club, and I don't care what gets shoved down their throat. Of course, optimally, they should be fought from within the supporters, and obviously by rival clubs of an opposite orientation.

In this society, however, football clubs are always influenced by the corporate world, and by all its values. The things are interconnected. If you only take away the racist fans, you are indeed left with a bland family-friendly atmosphere. If you only take away state interference, all kinds of scum can use the supporters as a recruitment ground. Only the overthrow of capitalism can change things on the long term. I disagree with the social conservatism that Vanguard1917 uses to oppose state interference, because he seems to consider only "traditions" that stand in a vacuum somewhere outside of society.

[Wanted Man]

To redarmyfaction38: I actually agree with most of your post. But what do you think of Premier League games in other countries? Sounds like a perfect example of "gentrification" to me. You know who's going to profit from that sort of thing, right?

And I don't think that the average football fan is racist. But Vanguard's post was just typical libertarian rhetoric: that the football ground exists in a vacuum, and that outside forces (such as the state) should not encroach on it. Of course, other interests are not that nice. Nazis will continue to try to recruit, for example. VG's argument is just typical right-wing whining about "PC". If you accept that nobody should be allowed to influence what people sing, and what they write on their banners, then that also means a concession to people who will do everything to take advantage of that.

[spartan]

There's nothing 'disgusting' about this. The globalisation of the Premiership is far better the alternative: its parochialization.

Dont be ridiculous.

Having Football split into regions is common sense as the world has different climates, which effect playing styles of teams (Brazilians, who live in a warm climate, play a completely different style of Football to the British who live in a cold climate), and makes the game in their own regions more efficient and successful.

Globalisation of the Premiership would make travelling to games much longer, more difficult to organize and wrought with more danger (Munich air crash 50 years ago).

All this talk of the playing of Premiership games in foreign countries is the club owners and media network executives way of attracting a new market, as the country that the Premiership is currently played in, Britain, is, along with the rest of the western world, facing a huge economic recession (So they want to cut their losses here so that they can make more money in the developing countries in Asia such as China and India).

All this attraction of foreign markets shows that the owners of clubs and the media dont give a shit about a club, its fans and history, all they care about is the money that they can potentially make from them all.

Its like someone, on the article that i linked to, said: A team would play in clown outfits against another team in French maid outfits as long as they were given the excessive amount of money that they all get.

[Vanguard1917]

asa for your comment about the apparent "racism" of the average football fan, how come both watford and plymouth argyle supporters reduced a nigerian immigrant to tears with their protest against his expulsion from this country?

Well pointed out. There's this old widespread middle class prejudice that white working class people would all go out to bash 'pakis' if it wasn't for the bourgeois state restraining them.


I disagree with the social conservatism that Vanguard1917 uses to oppose state interference, because he seems to consider only "traditions" that stand in a vacuum somewhere outside of society.

What are you talking about?

[Wanted Man]

Well spartan, I didn't think that I would ever agree with you on something football-related. ;)

Looking back, it actually seems that VG17 is taking two positions at the same time. What he is in favour for is actually both globalization (extra Premier League match abroad) and parochialization (against "PC" interference from the outside) simultaneously! Who needs bourgeois ideologists when you can get a guy like this??? :laugh:

[Vanguard1917]

Looking back, it actually seems that VG17 is taking two positions at the same time. What he is in favour for is actually both globalization (extra Premier League match abroad) and parochialization (against "PC" interference from the outside) simultaneously! Who needs bourgeois ideologists when you can get a guy like this??? :laugh:

:confused: Those sentences make no sense to me at all.

But anyway... Who needs Maggie Thatcher when you have so-called 'Marxists' calling for greater policing of football stadiums?

That's what is truly 'disgusting'.

[Wanted Man]

Where did I call for greater policing of football stadiums? :-/

[Vanguard1917]

So you don't believe that the state should interfere into football stadiums?

Because, usually, greater state interference into football stadiums = more pigs in football stadiums.

[Comrade_Scott]

cant belive that keane said it was good, isnt he mr prawn sandwiches man..... my how the times change

[Zurdito]

Edit: in response to Zurdito

For sure, the English situation is different from here. Football here has (officially) been very a-politicized for a long time, although Nazi groups are always on the lookout for football supporters to recruit. And surely, there are some differences: recently, a club here banned supporters who beat their drums too loudly. But "Ulster Volunteer Force" banners are a different matter entirely. I do not want to identify with such people as "we" just because they also support their club, and I don't care what gets shoved down their throat. Of course, optimally, they should be fought from within the supporters, and obviously by rival clubs of an opposite orientation.

In this society, however, football clubs are always influenced by the corporate world, and by all its values. The things are interconnected. If you only take away the racist fans, you are indeed left with a bland family-friendly atmosphere. If you only take away state interference, all kinds of scum can use the supporters as a recruitment ground. Only the overthrow of capitalism can change things on the long term. I disagree with the social conservatism that Vanguard1917 uses to oppose state interference, because he seems to consider only "traditions" that stand in a vacuum somewhere outside of society.

yes that's a good analysis.

on a wider political point, I'm against calling on the state to fight fascism. But I am in favour of supporters calling on clubs to ban any racist chanting, flags etc.