Permanently leaving the United States

[MoonCheese]

How should I go about cutting all ties with the USA forever? I had the misfortune to be born in the USA to parents with only American citizenship, etc. I hate almost everything about it. I want to be able to leave forever and never have to come back, I want it to be as if I was never American, and I want to destroy my worthless US citizenship. I don't really care about where anymore although I prefer Europe. I'm in my 3rd year at a university going for a computer science degree.

[BIG BROTHER]

Nah comrade, you should keep it. I know you want to make a statement but you should keep it. And as long as this world doesn't end sooner or later there will be a revolution in the USA when it's working class and the immigrants unite.

[MoonCheese]

Why should I do that?

I hate American culture, for instance I listen almost exclusively to European music. The USA is too Christian (in the sense of fundamentalists everywhere), too rural, too hot, etc.

[R_P_A_S]

I'm the opposite of you. my green card expires in 3 years... and I'm not sure if I want to become a U.S. citizen. And I don't think they let you renew it? This is a decision I soon will have to make.

[Zurdito]

your US citizenship could come in useful one day if, for militant purposes, you need to get into the US easily, or whatever. Maybe your party will need to send people there, and you will be the only American member, and none of the others can get in due to being commies. To destroy your passport would be short-term emotionalism, individualistic, and of no use to anyone. keep it, you may one day be able to use it to help the cause.

[BIG BROTHER]

Yes listen to Zurdito, a lot of us, and that includes me have to face the drawbacks of not having a citizenship here.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I'm the opposite of you. my green card expires in 3 years... and I'm not sure if I want to become a U.S. citizen. And I don't think they let you renew it? This is a decision I soon will have to make.

You can renew your green card.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Oh, and for the original poster, the U.S. doesn't recognize the renouncing of one's citizenship. If they ever need you in your capacity as a 'citizen' they believe the have the right to use you as such forever.

[KappaDelta]

Yeah, the US does allow renouncing your citizenship. It's just fucking hard, because you've got to do it in front of a US Consul, a meeting with whom would be hard enough to get for a legitimate reason he or she cared about. The easiest way to get a US citizenship hypothetically denied or destroyed would be to join the French Foreign Legion. Since you cannot (hypothetically) be a member of a military or governmental organization outside of the United States and retain citizenship, the point is moot and you don't have to do the paperwork.
A link: http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

[R_P_A_S]

You can renew your green card.

i mean.. i heard you can. but at the same time they probably also have a chance to deny me. and that would fucking suck.

[MarxSchmarx]

I'm in my 3rd year at a university going for a computer science degree.

Finish your schooling first, then look into this. In the mean time, focus on getting that American degree. It is very handy.


I had the misfortune to be born in the USA to parents with only American citizenship, etc.

Depending on your ancestry, you may have claims to, if not citizenship, the right to permanent residence. The most obvious case is Israel if you are Jewish, but lesser known examples apply to ethnic Finns and ethnic Chinese:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return

I've also heard of similar laws in West Africa but the case is not so clear.

[jaffe]

How should I go about cutting all ties with the USA forever? I had the misfortune to be born in the USA to parents with only American citizenship, etc. I hate almost everything about it. I want to be able to leave forever and never have to come back, I want it to be as if I was never American, and I want to destroy my worthless US citizenship. I don't really care about where anymore although I prefer Europe. I'm in my 3rd year at a university going for a computer science degree.

You're in university?:scared:

Nah, European culture isn't really beter as American culture. It's for most the part the same. And if you're leaving because you listen 'European' music and think it's too hot. Well...

[More Fire for the People]

Hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
That's why we call it a struggle
You're supposed to sweat
So keep marching 'til your feet split open

[Genosse Kotze]

Ok, there are several possibilities you could explore. First, if you're a Jew, then it should be no problem to get Israeli citizenship (although, that's just as bad as being an American if you ask me). However, lot's of countries offer citizenship to people, whose families left their country generations ago. My family came to the US from Italy in the 20's and all I had to do to get an Italien passport was show up at the embassy and produce some documents proving my grandpa was Italian. I think Germany has a simlar law for people of German ancestry, but you should check out the laws for the country your parents came from to see what can be done.

To relinquish your US citizenship all you have to do it go into the US embassy in a foreign country and tell em that you don't want to be an American anymore and bring some documents along (you can do this with as much theatrics as you like. Ex: wiping your ass with your US passport). Some countries don't allow you to have duel citizenship, so relinquishing your american citizenship would be required.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Again, the U.S. government doesn't recognize the renouncing of your citizenship if they have some use for you in your capacity as a citizen. For example, if you try to avoid paying taxes to the U.S. while living in another country by renouncing your citizenship, it won't work, legally speaking. The U.S. government will still hold you accountable and take legal action against you if you don't pay.

One thing renouncing your citizenship will do for you is eliminate your limited rights to bare arms. Federal law prohibits the sale of firearms to people who have renounced their U.S. citizenship.

[RedDawn]

I agree with Zurdito.

There are many activists / artists who get denied entry to the United States for being "communists." It is great if you want to move to another country and build the revolution there, but it is critically important to build the revolution in First World countries, otherwise smaller Third World countries will be crushed if they have a revolution. It is more politically useful to retain your US citizenship, even if you do move abroad.

I live in Seattle, it is very urbane, you can spout of whatever bullshit you want and no one gets offended, the weather is temperate and overcast year round, I go to clubs with predominantly European music regularly, it is the 2nd most unchurched state in the nation. There are many great cities in the US.

[Dros]

Finish school. Become fluent in a foreign language (or move to Britain if you can tolerate their food:p:tongue_smilie:). Then, go there. Live there. Get a job there. Marry a girl/boy there. Get your citizenship there. Have children (if you like 'em) there. And never come back.

I'd like to do something along those lines to some extent. Although I do like the Northeast and California. I'd like to live part time in France or Germany, part time in India or Japan, and part time in the US. But that is rather unlikely...

[LethargicAnarchist]

I'm new to this forum, found it after searching Google for "How to leave the US permanently".
I really, really would like to leave here because of the political climate, the economic climate and utter hopelessness of the possibility of affecting any real change here without being arrested. The Tea Party assholes & Fundamentalist Christians have successfully screamed loud enough to derail the attention of the media, & have brainwashed their sheep into believing anything Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sara Palin & Bill O'Reilly tell them.
I want to withdraw what little money I have left in my IRA,, take the the tools of my trade & go live & work anonymously someplace where the weather suits my clothes.
How realistic is this? Can the US come looking for you if you default on your debts & taxes, but never return? Can an American realistically live & work in another country permanently without that country's authorities deporting him?

[worldrambler]

I have thought about this much myself. As much as I am not nationalist, we as humans many times still feel a bond to the place where we come from, so in that regard maybe I'm just over nostalgic. However, in non-sentimental terms, I hate what the US is becoming. We are supposed to be in the age of enlightenment, in the age of reason, the age of science and technology, yet we still have to contend with idiots who claim the earth is less than 10,000 years old and a man named Noah really put all the species of earth on a boat and rode out a world wide flood. Those same people who will vehemently spew hate against anyone who doesn't see eye to eye with their deluded religions and small minded ideologies. Sad. After 4 years in the military I can say that I have about had my fill. Let's look objectively though, if all reds leave, then those fascists have won. I for one have made the decision that I will never give up my American citizenship, even though I once contemplated it; for the very simple reason that I want to be able to fight for an America that I can be proud of. I want first of all to get a college education, which I will begin this summer after I am discharged from the Navy, and then I want to use that degree to help make America a better place. In my honest opinion, I think you should stay and fight. But if being surrounded by brain-washed idiots just gets too much for you, then by all means leave. It's your decision, but you should remember what we are fighting for.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I'm not a huge "che" fan, but I remember reading Jerry Rubin's* book where he described going to Cuba with a bunch of student radicals and being entranced by Che's romantic stories of armed struggle. When the speech was over, all the American radicals ran up to him and said: "We envy your struggle so much we want to join you and march with you and fight imperialism!" Rubin said that Che replied: "Why, I envey you because you are in the belly of the beast and your struggle can strike the heart of imperialism".

So I say, stay and organize where you are. You can't escape capitalism so you may as well use everything at your disposal right now to organize your fellow students or co-workers.

Besides, with the internet it's not hard to get European music.:lol:



*a notorious bullshitter, so who knows if it's a true anecdote, but it works here.

[The Idler]

If you can get dual citizenship then don't burn your bridges with the US. It sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Like any country the US contains a variety of communities and you can pick and choose what culture you consume. Have you ever travelled outside the US before? Have you even travelled within the US? If you still want to leave, but can't physically leave, then stay and organize.

[worldrambler]

If you can get dual citizenship then don't burn your bridges with the US. It sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Like any country the US contains a variety of communities and you can pick and choose what culture you consume. Have you ever travelled outside the US before? Have you even travelled within the US? If you still want to leave, but can't physically leave, then stay and organize.
If I am wrong, feel free to correct me, but I think that the only way you can be a dual citizen in the US is if you were born one. My daughter, for example was born a Japanese-American dual citizen, but I cannot become one. If you accept another nation's citizenship, you are effectively renouncing your American citizenship.

[The Idler]

If I am wrong, feel free to correct me, but I think that the only way you can be a dual citizen in the US is if you were born one. My daughter, for example was born a Japanese-American dual citizen, but I cannot become one. If you accept another nation's citizenship, you are effectively renouncing your American citizenship.
I still think abandoning American citizenship for the reasons given would be a rash and foolish idea.

[Klaatu]

I am opting to stay right here in the US. I am going to stay here and fight against (a) the criminal capitalist thief
(b) the religion fundamentalist dolt (c) the libertarian liar and any other right-wing fanatical ideologue...

Someone has to stay here and fight. This is my country too. These fools will not overtake my freedom and rights.

[LethargicAnarchist]

Hey, Enviro-
I'm still working up to the boiling point which makes me want to fight. I'm non-confrontational, but I can only be pushed so far.
Idler-Thanks for your insight. Yes, I've traveled outside the US, but still have a lot to see. The best place I've been is Costa Rica, but I feel like buying a boat & taking off for a remote beach in Cuba & just kind of disappear..

[Klaatu]

Hey, Enviro-
I'm still working up to the boiling point which makes me want to fight. I'm non-confrontational, but I can only be pushed so far.
Idler-Thanks for your insight. Yes, I've traveled outside the US, but still have a lot to see. The best place I've been is Costa Rica, but I feel like buying a boat & taking off for a remote beach in Cuba & just kind of disappear..
Thank you. You are an important ally no matter where you live. Keep up your anger at the system, I always say.
Because complacency has never changed the world for the better, only for the worse. American contentness
has led to this present economic crisis. We had not been watching the real crooks on Wall Street, we got sidetracked
watching some guy in the Middle East. As it turns out, who do you think was worse? In terms of disaster, I mean.

[RED DAVE]

Move to New York. It's a foreign country compared to the rest of the United States. And we have the best pizza in the world!

RED DAVE

[S.Artesian]

Check out the European Union. I believe if you have a grandparent from an EU country [maybe 2, not sure] you are entitled to claim citizenship in the country.

[S.Artesian]

But BTW, having lived in Manhattan for 33 years, I agree with Red Dave- NYC only safe place to live in the US because it is different than the rest of the US. The difference however is fading fast-- ever since Koch's program of making NYC a safe place for Greenwich, Ct. to shop.

[worldrambler]

I still think abandoning American citizenship for the reasons given would be a rash and foolish idea.
And I completely agree. What better way to work against international imperialist capitalism from within. America, for better or worse affects the world in monumental ways. Therefore, to stay in America and work for change, is effectively to work for change in the world. Stay in America, we need all the reds we can get.

[worldrambler]

I am opting to stay right here in the US. I am going to stay here and fight against (a) the criminal capitalist thief
(b) the religion fundamentalist dolt (c) the libertarian liar and any other right-wing fanatical ideologue...

Someone has to stay here and fight. This is my country too. These fools will not overtake my freedom and rights.
I am with you 100% on this sentiment. We must reclaim America for the people.

[Q]

Check out the European Union. I believe if you have a grandparent from an EU country [maybe 2, not sure] you are entitled to claim citizenship in the country.
Immigration laws have had some standardisation efforts in the last few years, but there are still big differences per EU memberstate. Anyway, we're not that much of an improvement.

[Devrim]

There are many activists / artists who get denied entry to the United States for being "communists."

Not just people for being communists either, it is becoming increasingly difficult for people from the so-called third-world to get into the West. I can't imagine anything much stupider than voluntarily giving up a US passport. I am sure that most people in this country would react in utter disbelief. Move abroad if you want, live your life, but don't give up something that may one day be very useful to you.

Devrim

[Mindtoaster]

Theres absolutely no point in trying to give up citizenship, especially due to fleeting sentimentality. It could come in use someday.

That said, I completely understand your need to emigrate, I feel the same everyday and have been doing my best to try and flee the country myself. Unfortunately, I'm born and raised in the south, and unless you have a ton of money, it is very hard to escape. I couldn't get into a university outside of the south-east that I could afford, even with my good grades. So in my efforts to leave the country, I haven't even been able to escape the bible belt. Right now I'm just trying to do some travelling out of country, and hoping I can find someway to afford grad school out of country, and then desperately try to marry for citizenship.

I suppose I could just shoot for moving up north, but I've hated every yankee I have ever met. They're a really rude lot! ;)

Alternatively, I could try Cali or the like, but it's reaaaallly expensive and from what I've heard everyone there is a ultra-elitist liberal lifestylist :p

[Pawn Power]

There should be a pamphlet for people like this: "So You're Giving Up on the Struggle and Skipping Out of the County..." :lol:

For real though. The fight is inside the belly of the beast for us who happen to live here.

[MarxSchmarx]

If I am wrong, feel free to correct me, but I think that the only way you can be a dual citizen in the US is if you were born one. My daughter, for example was born a Japanese-American dual citizen, but I cannot become one. If you accept another nation's citizenship, you are effectively renouncing your American citizenship.

No that is mistaken. Under American law you have to become naturaliized a foreign citizen with the specific intention of relenquishing american citizenship.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

Some countries like I believe South Korea do require relinquishing whatever your previous citizenship was to become a national of their country. So if you became a citizen of one of those countries you have to sign a form saying you will renounce your other country's citizenship. Then you are subject to losing your US citizenship but it is still not quite a done a deal until you go through a few more hurdles. But for countries that do not require abandoning your previous citizenship as a prerequisite for naturalization, such as many Eastern European countries, you are fine to be naturalized and retain american passport.

[Morgenstern]

I am with you 100% on this sentiment. We must reclaim America for the people.

You cannot reclaim something that was never claimed in the first place. We must make the United States a place for the people.