Afghanistan

[spartan]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2252640,00.html

Thoughts?

This is yet again another great article from the Guardian newspaper.

Some (Emphasis on the word "Some") of the comments at the bottom are a good read as well.

The article doesnt shy away from the real reasons and reality of why this western occupation of Afghanistan is failing, and the true nature of who is actually in control and pulls all of the strings, as it were.

After reading this article, the Afghan "government" is starting to remind me of the US backed South Vietnam in the later stages of the Vietnam war.

All we have to do now is to just wait for the "breaking news" moment when it is announced that President Karzai has been "assassinated" by a "suicide bomber".

I mean how dare he critiscise those honourable soldiers giving all the Afghani people "freedoms" that they have never had before:rolleyes:

[jake williams]

Afghanistan is a terrifying dump. I genuinely don't know what to do about it or its people.

[spartan]

Afghanistan is a terrifying dump. I genuinely don't know what to do about it or its people.

The trouble with the main Afghani resistance groups (Al Qaeda and Taliban) is that they advocate Feudalism and a primitivist model of society (They openly declared that they want society to go back to the time of the prophet Muhammad).

Add to that their reactionary beliefs on homosexuals and women, and they even make the system that the western Imperialists aim to set up appear progressive in comparison to their model.

I dont support the Imperialists in Afghanistan, but i certainly dont support the main resistance to that Imperialism in Afghanistan either.

I personally hate it when people support resistance for resistances sake.

The fact is the model of society proposed by the Taliban, would be worse for the Afghani people.

Thats not to say that the Imperialist model would be any better, but at least it involves modernization and socially Liberal attitudes towards oppressed minorities in society (Both of which are seriously lacking in this region of the world right now).

Are there any progressive (i.e. advocating progressive ideas as part of their resistance) resistance groups in Afghanistan ATM?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The current conditions are the result of the U.S./Chinese/Saudi/Pakistani-backed counterrevolution in Afghanistan.

See: Afghanistan’s Saur Revolution of 1978, and the U.S.-backed counterrevolution (http://freepeoplesmovement.org/ry/rys7a.html)

[Faux Real]

What became the Taliban and al-Qaeda were followers of US policy to carry out control of Afghanistan. They were products of American imperialism and only later on became the opposition. There are no intrinsic elements in the region that create "fundamentalism", it's always been the outside forces of Western powers. You should have noticed by now from looking at Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan that this happens because the US has collaborated with the "fundamentalists" in order to wipe out the more secular and nationalist forces.

That said, the situation looks grim in Afghanistan. For true progressive forces to reappear, the occupation must come to an end. For the occupation to end, these "reactionaries" will have to wear the occupiers down financially and militarily. Otherwise, it's just the classic battle portrayed in the popular media as fanatics versus civilization-bringers.

[Sleeping Dog]

CompañeroDeLibertad,

Interesting article I intend to read it more in depth but I must get it in a text format the black background and white pica cause me too much eye strain. :blushing:

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Copy and paste it all to notepad.

[Holden Caulfield]

The trouble with the main Afghani resistance groups (Al Qaeda and Taliban) is that they advocate Feudalism and a primitivist model of society (They openly declared that they want society to go back to the time of the prophet Muhammad).


i read somewhere (probs the guardian actually) that these groups we stopping steet vendors from selling things like beer as it wasnt like that in Mohammads time, and scaring women to wear traditional attire as they did in Mohammads time,

to any deviants from this line they drove round in their Toyota wagon and shot them with an AK-47, i dont think i need to start explaining how fucked up their world view is

[Nakidana]

...and they even make the system that the western Imperialists aim to set up appear progressive in comparison to their model.

Here we go again. :rolleyes:

Afghanistan needs no help from people who identify it and its people as a "terrifying dump". Just GTFO.

[spartan]

Here we go again. :rolleyes:

Afghanistan needs no help from people who identify it and its people as a "terrifying dump". Just GTFO.

I didnt say that i personally thought that the Imperialist model was better than the Talibans Primitivist Feudal model.

I just said that the Talibans Primitivist Feudal model makes the Imperialists model look progressive when compared with theirs.

Seeing how you like to defend the Taliban, and their fucked up reactionary ideology, why dont you go join them as they stone a woman to death for wearing "immodest" clothing?

[jake williams]

Here we go again. :rolleyes:

Afghanistan needs no help from people who identify it and its people as a "terrifying dump". Just GTFO.
In large part I do have genuine concern for its people, and don't know what can be done for them, obviously the only sensible thing to do would be to find some way for them to help themselves, but I just don't know how.

Partly I'm genuinely worried about it though. While it's not the whole simple story of Jihad coming to get us because they hate our freedoms, the Taleban is not exactly a bunch of docile pacifists either, and this isn't just a Western bias - I think secularist Pakistanis legitimately have something to worry about from al-Qaeda and the like.

[Labor Shall Rule]

i read somewhere (probs the guardian actually) that these groups we stopping steet vendors from selling things like beer as it wasnt like that in Mohammads time, and scaring women to wear traditional attire as they did in Mohammads time,

to any deviants from this line they drove round in their Toyota wagon and shot them with an AK-47, i dont think i need to start explaining how fucked up their world view is

They support the formation of an Islamic Republic, but that doesn't mean they want to 'go back in time'. There is no Afghani urban proletariat, so it would be historically progressive for the Taliban to arm the small farmers against the ruling elite of landowners, renters, and the tiny comrador bourgeois.

[Dros]

Here we go again. :rolleyes:

Afghanistan needs no help from people who identify it and its people as a "terrifying dump". Just GTFO.

Yeah. Really? Are you serious? I second the afforementioned motion.

[spartan]

There is no Afghani urban proletariat, so it would be historically progressive for the Taliban to arm the small farmers against the ruling elite of landowners, renters, and the tiny comrador bourgeois.

But what do they want to replace the landowners with?

They want to replace them with a religious Feudal Theocracy which wont bring about the material conditions neccessary for Socialism.

So essentially the Taleban are going "back in time" as it were.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Of course, what else did you expect? They are a warlord grouping.

And of course, there is a working class in Afghanistan (albeit a small one). Otherwise, who would run Coca-Cola's $25 Million Production Plant (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,213292,00.html) there?

[Zurdito]

The trouble with the main Afghani resistance groups (Al Qaeda and Taliban) is that they advocate Feudalism and a primitivist model of society (They openly declared that they want society to go back to the time of the prophet Muhammad).

So in other words they are no different to when the USA backed them against the USSR.


Add to that their reactionary beliefs on homosexuals and women, and they even make the system that the western Imperialists aim to set up appear progressive in comparison to their model.

Spartan, the imperialists don't want to set up a political system, they want to impose certain economic conditions which the Taliban were not complying with, such as co-operating in the building of pipelines in the region and stepping up gas exports, as well as hosting permanent US military presence in the region.

The imperialists plans have in the past only impoverished the region and the country. They may say that they plan for a liberal demcoracy but in practice they have never brought this to Central Asia or the Middle East. I think then that instead of looking at what they say we should look at what they do, and the effects of their actions. US and British imperialism especially in the region has dirctly resulted in some of the most repressive and reactionary governments those people have known. Never ever forget that the Taliban was strongly supported by the USA to overthrow a relatively "modern" state and send the country back to the Stone Age. This is where imperialism has led Afghanistan. Those same interests now can't move the country forward.


I dont support the Imperialists in Afghanistan, but i certainly dont support the main resistance to that Imperialism in Afghanistan either.

I personally hate it when people support resistance for resistances sake.

The fact is the model of society proposed by the Taliban, would be worse for the Afghani people.

What do you think Afghans should do when under occupation from a foreign power?

They aren't resisting for resistances sake. And the resistance is not synonymous with the "Taliban", you seem to have fallen for propaganda. The Taliban is only part of the resistance.

If there is danger of a real social revolution, the imperialists will switch back to supporting the Taliban like they did before. therefore the best way to weaken reactionaries like the Taliban is to drive out the reactionary effects of imperialism from the region.

The Taliban have been forced to lean ont he masses for support against the imperialists - clearly they would rather not. This is why we need to keep pushing against imperialism and move the resistance forward to one for real social change. Only this way will there be enough momentum to take on the Taliban and sweep them aside when they try to cut a deal with the imperialists. We need to show to the Afghan masses that the only real liberation can be acheived through socialism, through a social revolution. Right now the Afghan people want to resist occupation, naturally seeing as those imperialist are murdering them and raping them and looting their resources and have previously imposed a decade of Taliban rule on them, but the trouble is that this resistance is led by conservative forces who have reached a compromise with the mass movement, a temporary unstable compromise.

This is why we have to urge the masses into that mass resistance in order to break it from its corrupt leadership which has a tendency to come to deals with imperialism in order to protect its own priveliges.