Pardon undocumented Immigrants? Where do you stand?

[NICKHILL80]

I seem to have this argument with some friends and family. The direction some have taking is block all the borders. Don't let anyone in, they get in shoot because you never know what kind of threat they might bring. I've gotten
"well if there willing to work and do the time and make an honest decent living for themselves then all for it"!


I've heard just find them all, get rid of them empty our prisons and throw them back to their countries, I find that to be easier said then done. To be honest you don't think there going to try and find another way to get back?

My views on it are kind of scattered, but for the young children who are in the school systems actually looking to make something of themselves and getting good grades and want to be here should be here. I think it's a sad day in the world when I hear people say "I don't care how they are, they don't belong here" ya well what makes it ok for you to here? we have more issues dealing with the people who are from this country. Enough with the seperation people.

[cyu]

I would phrase my argument in terms of freedom: I believe people should have the right to live anywhere they want because I believe in freedom. Anyone that does not believe in this right is against freedom.

Since convervatives love to claim they support freedom, this would hopefully rattle them a bit.

I don't see a difference between someone going from Mexico to the U.S. and someone going from Texas to New York. Do people in New York pass laws against "illegal immigration" from Texas? Of course not. If a Mexican is assaulting people, then treat them the same way as a Texan that's assaulting people. If a Mexican is not assaulting people, then treat them the same way as a Texan that's not assaulting people.

The other complaint I hear from anti-immigrant groups is that immigrants are taking away their jobs. My counter-argument for that is that if the immigrants are willing to work and contribute to the economy, that's a good thing. The fact that their contribution is hurting non-immigrants points to a problem with how the economy is structured. The solution is to fix the economic system, not limit the freedom of movement.

[Raúl Duke]

No body is illegal to me. All that dichotomy is false. It's harder and probably more expensive to get in legally. I bet the legal immigration process of today would have restricted access to most of the European immigrants to America back from the 19th century.

Immigrants are used as scapegoats through anti-immigrant rationales, etc, so that the capitalists can evade this issue: Capitalists only care for cheap labor so to gain maximum profit. Also, all this anti-immigrant stuff is just racism/xenophobia since most immigrants come from non-(Western) European backgrounds.

[BobKKKindle$]

Specifically, in the case of American, it is possible to advance a historical argument: the USA is comprised of land that was stolen from the area's original inhabitants (the native americans and those of indigenous latin american origin) such that it is wrong to deny them the right to move freely in their homeland.

[Pawn Power]

No body is illegal to me.

That doesn't really matter since you are not a nation-state of legal body. sorry. :(


It's harder and probably more expensive to get in legally. Often impossible. I knew people who couldn't get tourist or education visas to enter the country no less residency. Of course they were from South America.



I bet the legal immigration process of today would have restricted access to most of the European immigrants to America back from the 19th century.


Maybe. But emigration was restricted back then to an extent and later into the early 20th century depending on the country. Quotas from differnt countries or region often determined the number of immigrants let in, habitually the "whiter" the counter the large the quota.

[Raúl Duke]

That doesn't really matter since you are not a nation-state of legal body. sorry.

lol

The United Federation of Johnnystan!


Quotas from differnt countries or region often determined the number of immigrants let in, habitually the "whiter" the counter the large the quota.

I've actually heard about that. They restricted Asians and Eastern Europeans. I've heard it was because of racist research that "proved" them "stupider" than Western White Europeans.

[black magick hustla]

Anyone who is against the full amnesty of "undocumented immigrants" can't call himself a communist. workers have no country!

[Labor Shall Rule]

In dealing with your family members that advocate deportation, first ask them why. They come here and are willing to work -- 92% of all undocumented males are currently employed, and unauthorized workers only make up to 2% of the whole labor force, which means their work is mostly temporary, and not 'crowding' up the low-wage job market, as anti-immigrant commentators would like them to believe.

They do the time to make an honest living, but are fucked over most of the time. They don't even receive welfare, considering that most of the deductions from their paycheck goes into a 'Special Earnings File' that is expropriated by bureaucrats.

I don't think this argument would work on your parents (or whoever is arguing to you in your family about immigration), but it should apply to you if you associate yourself with communist theory in general -- we are internationalists. Just because someone was born behind a different arbitrary line on a map -- which was determined through imperialist conquest and the carve-up of land by unfair treaties -- that they should have less rights, or are any less of humans. That is why we say, "no human is illegal," because we don't stand behind borders, we stand behind humanity, especially for humans that risk their lives on long journeys in an attempt to climb above the pit of poverty and dearth.

[Sky]

I see no reason to change the status quo. Historical precedent has established that the right of Mexicans to migrate freely into that part of their country occupied by Washington is inviolable. Peoples from Mexico and Central America should be allowed to migrate unmolested, but should not be legalized, as this would weaken the workers' movement. The current police terror against undocumented migrants, including deportation, must cease. If we were to legalize undocumented migrants, then it would be doubtful that events like those on May Day 2006 would have been possible. Instead of calling for amnesty, the progressive workers' movement instead need to combat the hateful propaganda of the right-wing agitating for the ethnic cleansing of Mexicans and the construction of a wall along the southern border. Undocumented migrants need to be discontented, for this will prove helpful in the imminent overthrow of the bourgeois dictatorship.

[black magick hustla]

I see no reason to change the status quo. Historical precedent has established that the right of Mexicans to migrate freely into that part of their country occupied by Washington is inviolable. Peoples from Mexico and Central America should be allowed to migrate unmolested, but should not be legalized, as this would weaken the workers' movement. The current police terror against undocumented migrants, including deportation, must cease. If we were to legalize undocumented migrants, then it would be doubtful that events like those on May Day 2006 would have been possible. Instead of calling for amnesty, the progressive workers' movement instead need to combat the hateful propaganda of the right-wing agitating for the ethnic cleansing of Mexicans and the construction of a wall along the southern border. Undocumented migrants need to be discontented, for this will prove helpful in the imminent overthrow of the bourgeois dictatorship.

This is silly thinking, and this shows how the whole mentality of "workers as plastic soldiers" is prevalent in the radical left.

By your logic, there should be no labor laws, imperialism shouldnt stop, and there should be a nuclear holocaust because it "polarizes" people.

[Labor Shall Rule]

This is silly thinking, and this shows how the whole mentality of "workers as plastic soldiers" is prevalent in the radical left.

By your logic, there should be no labor laws, imperialism shouldnt stop, and there should be a nuclear holocaust because it "polarizes" people.

Yes!

The "status quo," by the way, is forcing migrant workers to cross rapid rivers, remote mountainous areas, and the sweltering heat of the Arizona Desert.

[Comrade Rage]

I think his argument has a lot of merit. Nobody joins radical causes when everything is going ok, there has to be some element of injustice around, because otherwise their would be NO rationale for change.

People have to get pissed off over something.

[black magick hustla]

I think his argument has a lot of merit. Nobody joins radical causes when everything is going ok, there has to be some element of injustice around, because otherwise their would be NO rationale for change.

People have to get pissed off over something.


you people sound like fucking narodniks and I am ashamed of calling myself a communist because of all of you.

Communism is about the emancipation of humanity, if there isnt injustices, there isnt nothing to emancipate, then it means you shouldnt be a communist in the first place.

Right now in my area there is a housing crisis. Winter is coming and to some people it is a matter of life and death. The government shouldnt declare a moratorium because it is better for them to suffer to open themselves to radical ideas?

[Jimmie Higgins]

you people sound like fucking narodniks and I am ashamed of calling myself a communist because of all of you.

Communism is about the emancipation of humanity, if there isnt injustices, there isnt nothing to emancipate, then it means you shouldnt be a communist in the first place.

Right now in my area there is a housing crisis. Winter is coming and to some people it is a matter of life and death. The government shouldnt declare a moratorium because it is better for them to suffer to open themselves to radical ideas?

I agree. There's the the pessimistic and wrong-headed idea that keeps popping up which suggests that people are content with a status quo in which they are oppressed and exploited.

First off, historically people don't fight back when things get to a certain point of bad or their anger rises to a certain point. In the US during the depression, people didn't fight back and have sit-down strikes and factory occupations when the depression was at its worst. People fought-back when they realized that it was a winning strategy and when they had the confidence to do so. In order to get to this point there had to be revolutionary organizations and militant unions that could build up a core of people and show how class-based action could beat back the bosses.

Second, it's a passive belief to say that worker's won't fight back until things get to a certain point. If that was true, why be a radical? If workers can organize a revolution when they reach a certain level of anger as if some switch was flipped in their heads, then why should we lean anything? Why should we seek to find out how our strikes and rebellions win? I think we need radicals in order for the working class to learn lessons from its history and action and learn strategy and how to win; that's the only real difference between a working class revolutionary and other workers.

The working class will fight back not because things are bad - because things are always bad for workers to a lesser or greater degree in capitalism. Workers will fight back when they realize that they have the power to run society for themselves and on their terms.

[Sleeping Dog]

Since you theoretical proletariats are as much out of step with reality as Senor Bush. My wife and myself (both forced into lowering wages) and hence worrying about our own daughter's future - would like to extend a single fingered salute to you!

[Luís Henrique]

So some people believe that those who were not born in the United States have no right to live in the United States.

Where do these people stand on the fact that McDonald's, Exxon, or Ford, do business abroad? Do they think the same rule should be used, ie, that those companies should be shut in Nigeria, Argentina, or Pakistan?

Luís Henrique

[Wanted Man]

you people sound like fucking narodniks and I am ashamed of calling myself a communist because of all of you.
QFT. This is carbon copy Nechayev (http://www.uoregon.edu/~kimball/Nqv.catechism.thm.htm). Particularly:


22. The Society has no aim other than the complete liberation and happiness of the narod -- i.e., of the people who live by manual labor. Convinced that their emancipation and the achievement of this happiness can only come about as a result of an all-destroying popular revolt, the Society will use all its resources and energy toward increasing and intensifying the evils and miseries of the people until at last their patience is exhausted and they are driven to a general uprising.

Funny that people who consider themselves anti-revisionist marxist-leninists are using the exact same arguments of the old "barracks communism", as Marx called it. Lenin himself saw that the individual terrorism propagated by the nihilist movement (which held the same values: work to intensify the suffering and exploitation of the masses, so that they will rise up) would not lead to a revolution.

[MT5678]

Yeah, I agree with Luis Henrique. The real immigrants who are inimical monstrosities who cause crime, poverty, and destruction ARE THE CORPORATIONS. BUt they cross all the borders that they want. So why shouldn't workers cross?

Incidentally, we would like it if the corporations could just stay put and die off, but the workers could still go anywhere they pleased. Why? Its a matter of motive. Workers just look for jobs. Corporations look to exploit people and make cash.

What should we do with the undocumenteds? LEGALIZE THEM ALL. Then, they an gain remotely humane wages and services (like medicine + legal stuff), and begin to organize on a grand scale without fear of deportation.

The Undocumenteds will be on the frontline of our struggle against the bourgeois.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Since you theoretical proletariats are as much out of step with reality as Senor Bush. My wife and myself (both forced into lowering wages) and hence worrying about our own daughter's future - would like to extend a single fingered salute to you!What are you talking about? Immigrants caused your wages to be lowered? Capitalism causing people to compete to the bottom for jobs is the reason our wages are lowered - if immigrants had the same rights, then they could fight alongside you or your wife for better wages for everyone. Business uses divide and rule to keep us in line - solidarity is what is needed to fight back.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The communist position:


Contrary to sell-out union tops that condemn immigrant workers for “bringing down wages” and “taking jobs” from native-born workers, the Party fights for full equality for all immigrant workers -- by demanding full citizenship for all immigrants everywhere, to raise them up to the level of native-born workers -- so that the bosses cannot rely on them for cheap labor, to replace striking workers, etc.

The Party points out that capitalism is international -- that capitalists take their businesses anywhere in the world they want to go, crossing all borders without any “passports” -- while working people are restricted to certain geographic areas marked by artificial borders. The Party constantly raises the question, “Why is capital free while workers remain enchained?”

[Winter]

I think his argument has a lot of merit. Nobody joins radical causes when everything is going ok, there has to be some element of injustice around, because otherwise their would be NO rationale for change.

People have to get pissed off over something.


Immigrants from Mexico must be pissed off at there government to be fleeing, so perhaps a revolution can be built up in Mexico? There are tons of downtrodden workers there, they feel helpless so they flee. Is there any organization using this to spread class consciousness south of the border? Just a thought.

[Winter]

What are you talking about? Immigrants caused your wages to be lowered? Capitalism causing people to compete to the bottom for jobs is the reason our wages are lowered - if immigrants had the same rights, then they could fight alongside you or your wife for better wages for everyone. Business uses divide and rule to keep us in line - solidarity is what is needed to fight back.

Indeed. The immigrants are one of the most scapegoated people ever.

Corporations want working class vs. working class. If we would unite we would start conjuring up devious communist plans.

[SouthernBelle82]

Whatever happened to the phrase "give us your tired, poor..." etc? Everyone should have a chance to become a citizen if that's what they want to do and how they believe they can better their lives.

[Raúl Duke]

My wife and myself (both forced into lowering wages)
What are you talking about? Immigrants caused your wages to be lowered? While he is difficult to understand...

If that is the case let me remind people, that capitalists will always look for cheap labor, inside their borders or outside (offshore outsourcing).

Getting rid of them (i.e. deporting) is not going to provide more job security.


Contrary to sell-out union tops that condemn immigrant workers for “bringing down wages” and “taking jobs” from native-born workers, the Party fights for full equality for all immigrant workers -- by demanding full citizenship for all immigrants everywhere, to raise them up to the level of native-born workers -- so that the bosses cannot rely on them for cheap labor, to replace striking workers, etc.

The Party points out that capitalism is international -- that capitalists take their businesses anywhere in the world they want to go, crossing all borders without any “passports” -- while working people are restricted to certain geographic areas marked by artificial borders. The Party constantly raises the question, “Why is capital free while workers remain enchained?”I agree. :thumbup1:

[Forward Union]

Immigrants from Mexico must be pissed off at there government to be fleeing, so perhaps a revolution can be built up in Mexico? There are tons of downtrodden workers there, they feel helpless so they flee. Is there any organization using this to spread class consciousness south of the border? Just a thought.

Maybe you've lived under a rock for quite a while, but there was a mass uprising in February last year. The Entire city of Oaxaca was liberated and run autonomously. Then we have the Zapatista controlled territories in Chiapas.

And In my experiences in Mexico there is a massive level of class-concioussness. I saw a blacksmiths with a paintingof Durruti on the wall, and a ford factory draped in red and black banners, just in one day while I was walkign about.

Everewhere there are revolutionary posters...

[black magick hustla]

Maybe you've lived under a rock for quite a while, but there was a mass uprising in February last year. The Entire city of Oaxaca was liberated and run autonomously. Then we have the Zapatista controlled territories in Chiapas.

And In my experiences in Mexico there is a massive level of class-concioussness. I saw a blacksmiths with a paintingof Durruti on the wall, and a ford factory draped in red and black banners, just in one day while I was walkign about.

Everewhere there are revolutionary posters...

the country is very divided. maybe if you live in the center or the south

[Sleeping Dog]

What are you talking about? Immigrants caused your wages to be lowered? Capitalism causing people to compete to the bottom for jobs is the reason our wages are lowered - if immigrants had the same rights, then they could fight alongside you or your wife for better wages for everyone. Business uses divide and rule to keep us in line - solidarity is what is needed to fight back.But they're not pal! They are currently aiding and abetting corporate Union Busting and Class Warfare. Let them go back and elect someone other than a Fox look alike.

[MT5678]

Funny, you would think that if immigrants were collaborating with the rich guys, they would have bargained for things such as access to legal and medical services and a remotely decent wage to pay off the rent and compensate for remittance money to Mexico. Oh yeah, and they might have bargained for better protection in the meatpacking plants, perhaps a more humane processing rate...

Your hypothesis doesn't have your intended effect. The only true thing you have said is that illegal immigrants are kind of a lumpenproletariat, which all of us knew already.

Elect somebody? You know who we are! Marxists never use elections to win, only to agitate. Anarchists don't care about the whole thing. If a radical wins an election, he has already sold out the workers, and will at most become a Social Democrat.

[Labor Shall Rule]

But they're not pal! They are currently aiding and abetting corporate Union Busting and Class Warfare. Let them go back and elect someone other than a Fox look alike.

Name one moment where immigrants were used as strike-breakers.

Whose fault is it when health care insurance is slashed into pieces, when pensions are scrapped, and when wages are lowered? Who is truly “hurting” us? It is the capitalist that dictates the erosion or outright dismantlement of gains made over a course of years, not the people that are also searching for pensions, wages, and medical aid. Where is the logic in saying that the workers that are being exploited are at fault?

Mass unemployment can cause a lowering of wages in the sense that it increases the supply of labor in ratio to the demand, but you aren't saying that they are anti-working class? All arguments for immigration controls always have a racial, pro-corporate line to them, because it keeps migrant workers in a super-exploited position that excludes them from the democratic rights and social-benefits that are inherent to citizenship. You really need to ask yourself: which side on your on?

[Jimmie Higgins]

Name one moment where immigrants were used as strike-breakers.

Whose fault is it when health care insurance is slashed into pieces, when pensions are scrapped, and when wages are lowered? Who is truly “hurting” us? It is the capitalist that dictates the erosion or outright dismantlement of gains made over a course of years, not the people that are also searching for pensions, wages, and medical aid. Where is the logic in saying that the workers that are being exploited are at fault?

Mass unemployment can cause a lowering of wages in the sense that it increases the supply of labor in ratio to the demand, but you aren't saying that they are anti-working class? All arguments for immigration controls always have a racial, pro-corporate line to them, because it keeps migrant workers in a super-exploited position that excludes them from the democratic rights and social-benefits that are inherent to citizenship. You really need to ask yourself: which side on your on?

I agree. However, although I don't know if immigrants have been used as strike-breakers, it is a possibility. But that is precisely the reason the left should argue with unionists and workers in general that the best thing for all workers is to have no separate sets of laws.

If immigrants are "illegal" and can't join unions or fight for their rights out of fear of deportation, then they can be used by the bosses to lower wages and to act as strikebreakers. If they have the same rights, then why would they work for lower wages when they can join the union and stand in solidarity and EVERY WORKER BENEFITS.

Any worker who blames immigrants is a fool to the bosses and hasn't learned any lessons from the history of US labor. The bosses used blacks as strikebreakers when US unions wouldn't admit blacks and this hurt the union movement. Now they use immigrants and workers over the border for the same things.

An injury to one is an injury to all.

[black magick hustla]

But they're not pal! They are currently aiding and abetting corporate Union Busting and Class Warfare. Let them go back and elect someone other than a Fox look alike.

you are not a communist, or an "anarcho-syndicalist", you are a stupid liberal.

They are not "aiding" anyone, they are not the ones that hire or fire workers. Communists understand that the full amnesty helps class struggle in as much as they cannot be hired as cheap "illegal" labor to bust unions.

To be honest, I think you are a troll.

[YSR]

But they're not pal! They are currently aiding and abetting corporate Union Busting and Class Warfare. Let them go back and elect someone other than a Fox look alike.

This is absolutely anti-worker and crazy!

Why are "they" (notice the other-ing going on here, eh?) allegedly lowering your wages and busting unions? Because they are illegal! Who made them illegal? The bosses and their laws! Who is lowering wages and conditions? The bosses and their laws! Amnesty is such an important idea for precisely this reason.

As to them "going home," that's crap. Migration is a moment of class struggle. The act of flight indicates the subjectivity and decision-making power of proletarians. Understanding that migration is an act of resistance is critical to building a truly internationalist movement.

[Sleeping Dog]

It does not matter if undocumented workers have not entered into "formal agreements with those who "own the means of production". They're willingness to preform work for less than the prevailing wage hurts all workers.

Ad hominem tirades do not change the fact that I work for a living (Mommy and Daddy) aren't paying my way. Your "solitary rhetoric" is merely the "pie in the sky of long aired preachers".

I no longer work in a factory but as a truck driver I see the NAFTA Mexican truck scams developing.

[Forward Union]

the country is very divided. maybe if you live in the center or the south

Hence we have La otra Campana...

[Forward Union]

It does not matter if undocumented workers have not entered into "formal agreements with those who "own the means of production". They're willingness to preform work for less than the prevailing wage hurts all workers.

Agreed, but whos to blame for that? I mean, the working for less that the minimum wage is literally the best decision they can make. Therefore they should be praised for doign the best they can with a shit situation. Me and you both bknow that the only way to make our sitations better, is by working with the immigrant community, not against it.

The problem is with capitalist economics that firstly cause mass immigration, and secondly make it an unhealthy thing.

[Dros]

Pardon?

What crime did they commit exactly?

[BIG BROTHER]

Pardon?

What crime did they commit exactly?

True, looking for a better life isn't a crime.

And plus the reason why most of us immigrate to the US is because our contries are poor, largely in part by the US's imperialist actions and their explotation of our countries.

Workers from all nations should unite, and that's final!

[black magick hustla]

It does not matter if undocumented workers have not entered into "formal agreements with those who "own the means of production". They're willingness to preform work for less than the prevailing wage hurts all workers.

Ad hominem tirades do not change the fact that I work for a living (Mommy and Daddy) aren't paying my way. Your "solitary rhetoric" is merely the "pie in the sky of long aired preachers".

I no longer work in a factory but as a truck driver I see the NAFTA Mexican truck scams developing.

lol so what is your solution, patrol the borders? Encourage the state to thwart on them? If we are "speaking" about pie on the sky, then what is your realistic alternative? Do you think it is equally realistic to give everyone full amnesty, and therefore make it impossible for bosses to hire illegal scabs to bust unions, of to just throw every illegal out of the country?

you dont know my class background. I will tell you this, there are many working class communists that are worse off than you that don't spout stupid shit like you do.

[Jimmie Higgins]

It does not matter if undocumented workers have not entered into "formal agreements with those who "own the means of production". They're willingness to preform work for less than the prevailing wage hurts all workers.

Ad hominem tirades do not change the fact that I work for a living (Mommy and Daddy) aren't paying my way. Your "solitary rhetoric" is merely the "pie in the sky of long aired preachers".

I no longer work in a factory but as a truck driver I see the NAFTA Mexican truck scams developing.

I work for a living too - at a hotel where half the staff are from other countries and the other half of your politics is all the shit I see that they have to go through if they're legal or not. So don't pull that "I'm a worker" crap because I am too and just don't talk about solidarity, I fight for solidarity in my union.

It dosn't matter if they're immigrants from Mexico, Oakie migrants from Oklahoma or blacks from the south moving into urban areas for jobs - none of these groups were responsible for lower the wages of other workers. But all these groups got the blame for it and had laws passed against them and got hassled by the police and now the immigration authorities.

The lessons of the labor movement in the US, is if you don't unite everyone, then those that are left out are going to make strikes loose. The problem isn't the immigrant, it's the laws making the law treat him different than other workers. If an illegal immigrant who was working here, then they wouldn't accept lower wages and together all workers could fight for improvements rather than fight with each other for lower and lower ammounts of tablescraps.

[Sleeping Dog]

Right I'm suppose to tighten my belt and genuflect before someone who might be worse off financially then myself It's getting close to 2:00 AM. I must leave now to fire up a truck (I use to be a machinist).

Burn those that hire undocumented workers and then they'd not be sending all that money back to President Vincent Fox's economy.

[Faux Real]

Sleeping Dog, Vicente Fox hasn't been president for two years now.

I hear those immigrant workers are historically and linguistically coherent compared to some ultranationalist psudoanarchists. :glare:

[YSR]

They're willingness to preform work for less than the prevailing wage hurts all workers.

Why do they work for less than prevailing wage? Because U.S. imperialism forces their countries to pay them less.

Migrants are resisting imperialism with their bodies.


Ad hominem tirades do not change the fact that I work for a living (Mommy and Daddy) aren't paying my way.

Boy, are you trying to be ironic?

[cyu]

Right I'm suppose to tighten my belt and genuflect before someone who might be worse off financially then myself It's getting close to 2:00 AM. I must leave now to fire up a truck (I use to be a machinist).

Burn those that hire undocumented workers and then they'd not be sending all that money back to President Vincent Fox's economy.

Uh no, you don't genuflect before immigrants. You get the immigrant to help you both stop genuflecting to the capitalists.

Here's the deal. Let's say the capitalist class is 1%, but owns 95% of the wealth. What's left is 99% of the population, citizens and immigrants, fighting over the remaining 5%. That just sounds plain stupid to me. You're doing exactly what the capitalists want you to do. Too focused on fighting eachother that you don't notice them.

[RNK]

The only reason immigration is an issue is because of the fact that the first world exploits and oppresses the third, because 1st world capital extracts all of the resources and profit and commodities from the 3rd world and is the sole benefactor of all the 3rd world's ability to create capital.

Fact of the matter is, they have every right to be here -- this is where the surplus value of their labour and their resources end up, so why not?

[BIG BROTHER]

A revolution in the united states won't happen until we the workers stop figthing, trying to make us immigrants the excuse for the capitalist failure.

[Sleeping Dog]

I'll fondly bear that in mind while dumpster dinning. Of course all that can cut it (up-right and Twixt the Traffic Lanes (without family sedans stuck in the grill)) welcome to work along side me!

It's 2:00 PM I must go to bed now!

[MarxSchmarx]

the USA is comprised of land that was stolen from the area's original inhabitants (the native americans and those of indigenous latin american origin) such that it is wrong to deny them the right to move freely in their homeland.

To which the xenophobe replies ...

"Yes, and the original inhabitants have regretted letting the immigrants in ever since.":laugh: