Anti Fascist Rally - Dublin, Ireland. January 30th.

[1968]

''Anti-Fascism and Anti-Racism Rally

Where: Meet at the Spire, O'Connell St
When: January 30th
Time: 5.30PM

To mark the 75th anniversary of Hitler's rise to power in 1933, Socialist Youth is organising a rally to highlight the vicious brutality of the Nazi regime in smashing and suppressing the trade union organisations, left-wing parties and ethnic, religious and sexual minorities in the 1930s and 1940s but also to address the issues of racism, sexism and homophobia today as well as the threat of fascism in a number of countries. The rally will be addressed by a number of anti-fascism and anti-racism campaigners.''

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Though, i'm not involved or a member of Socialist Youth. This is a relatively important event, as it will be the first explicit anti fascist/racist demo in Dublin for some time.


I urge, all anti- racists and anti-fascists in Dublin to attened.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Ah sure why not

[PRC-UTE]

there is an active anti-fascist movement in Ireland, and they continually take on the fash in the pubs and stands. what's the point of a SY rally?

[BOZG]

there is an active anti-fascist movement in Ireland, and they continually take on the fash in the pubs and stands. what's the point of a SY rally?

There is not an active fascist movement in Ireland so I can't see how there can be an active anti-fascist movement. Fair play to AFA, they have done some good stuff when all 4 of the Celtic Wolves show their faces every now and then but to say that there's an ongoing anti-fascist movement is a huge overstatement and I'm sure they'd agree with that. The 60th Anniversary was a relatively significant event in Dublin and we decided to try and hold something similar again, in the context of the relative growth of fascist groups and parties in Europe and the issue of racism in Ireland, particularly as it is no doubt something which the right-wing parties will begin to whip up in the coming months and years with the world economy looking quite weak.

[Batman]

There is not an active fascist movement in Ireland

Thanks to the efforts of AFA and active anti-fascist Republicans.

[1968]

There is neither an ''active'' anti fascist or fascist movement in Ireland.

Though i may have reservations about this demo, kudos for SY for calling it and i hope to see a large group of militant anti fascists there.

[BOZG]

Thanks to the efforts of AFA and active anti-fascist Republicans.

Not really. Fascism does not just appear because there are fascists here. Fascism only develops under certain conditions, conditions which don't currently exist in Ireland because of the economic boom. A fascist organisation calling itself the NSRUS attempted to make headway in Ireland a number of years ago but "AFA and anti-fascist Republicans" never had any dealings with them. They pulled out because they couldn't find an echo for their ideas in Ireland and that's something they even admitted themselves.

Even if the conditions for fascism existed in Ireland, you'd be completely incorrect to claim that it's only been because of "AFA and anti-fascist Republicans". The broad left, including other organisations and campaigners has been involved in anti-fascist work over the years when fascist organisation or individuals have attempted to distribute material or organise.

[Batman]

Semantics.

[BOZG]

What's semantics?

[RedDawn]

there is an active anti-fascist movement in Ireland, and they continually take on the fash in the pubs and stands. what's the point of a SY rally?

AFA and other anarchist orgs can't act as a substitute of the working-class. We don't need heroes, we need working class power. Otherwise, its just fashionistas fighting the fash.

The point is to show that there are real economic issues to worry about and alternatives to a right-ward turn. The kickbacks Ahern has been taking from his capitalist buddies have sown huge bubbles in the Irish economy, tie that into the subprime loan meltdown over here in the US that Europe has been investing in and you are in for a rough ride.

Workers around the world are going to have their belts tighten, so we have to provide an alternative vision. When people get sick of Ahern and co., some will turn towards nationalism and want to blame immigrants.

Agitating for socialism will act as windfall to prevent people from moving towards fascism. It is necessary.

[PRC-UTE]

AFA and other anarchist orgs can't act as a substitute of the working-class. We don't need heroes, we need working class power. Otherwise, its just fashionistas fighting the fash.

The point is to show that there are real economic issues to worry about and alternatives to a right-ward turn. The kickbacks Ahern has been taking from his capitalist buddies have sown huge bubbles in the Irish economy, tie that into the subprime loan meltdown over here in the US that Europe has been investing in and you are in for a rough ride.

Workers around the world are going to have their belts tighten, so we have to provide an alternative vision. When people get sick of Ahern and co., some will turn towards nationalism and want to blame immigrants.

Agitating for socialism will act as windfall to prevent people from moving towards fascism. It is necessary.


all you have done here is avoided the issue at hand with vague propagandistic statements and truisims.

Erm, we don't argue that a handful can defeat fascism, we argue that they can be prevented or stunted from developing by stopping them now. I know from experience and the experiences of my close comrades out there bashing the fash and making it impossible for them to organise that dneying them a platform for organising is necessary. It's a bit farcical to hold a rally when an active anti-fascist movement exists (just because some aren't aware of it doesn't change that fact). It smacks of opportunism and sectarianism.

[PRC-UTE]

There is not an active fascist movement in Ireland so I can't see how there can be an active anti-fascist movement. Fair play to AFA, they have done some good stuff when all 4 of the Celtic Wolves show their faces every now and then but to say that there's an ongoing anti-fascist movement is a huge overstatement and I'm sure they'd agree with that. The 60th Anniversary was a relatively significant event in Dublin and we decided to try and hold something similar again, in the context of the relative growth of fascist groups and parties in Europe and the issue of racism in Ireland, particularly as it is no doubt something which the right-wing parties will begin to whip up in the coming months and years with the world economy looking quite weak.

There is an active anti-fascist movement, note that I did not call it a mass movement or exagerate its size, only that an active movement has existed and continued to drive fascists from wherever they show their faces. I agree the movement should be expanded to face down the far more dangerous threat of attacks on immigrants, etc. from the mainstream parties (which we've also been active on...) but to create a new front group is just a joke.

The left republicans, republican socialists and ex-Red Action members the SY and anarcho-university types charactarise as 'nationalist' are the ones behind it, and that's why rather than engage with it the SY are creating their own organisation, when they've done sfa up to this point re fascism in Ireland.

[RedDawn]

all you have done here is avoided the issue at hand with vague propagandistic statements and truisims.

Erm, we don't argue that a handful can defeat fascism, we argue that they can be prevented or stunted from developing by stopping them now. I know from experience and the experiences of my close comrades out there bashing the fash and making it impossible for them to organise that dneying them a platform for organising is necessary. It's a bit farcical to hold a rally when an active anti-fascist movement exists (just because some aren't aware of it doesn't change that fact). It smacks of opportunism and sectarianism.

The point is to have the working class as a whole oppose fascism, until it is obvious it is in their class interests to be anti-fascist.

Its great that your comrades have been doing antifa work, but it needs to get bigger, with more people involved.

It is hardly sectarian or opportunistic, we don't oppose your right to have an anti-fascist organization. Rather, we are perfectly willing to hold a united front, just as Trotsky called for. There is nothing wrong with linking up with working-class republicans to fight fascism. But we just have to be clear that those are your politics and these are ours.

[BOZG]

There is an active anti-fascist movement, note that I did not call it a mass movement or exagerate its size, only that an active movement has existed and continued to drive fascists from wherever they show their faces. I agree the movement should be expanded to face down the far more dangerous threat of attacks on immigrants, etc. from the mainstream parties (which we've also been active on...) but to create a new front group is just a joke.

The left republicans, republican socialists and ex-Red Action members the SY and anarcho-university types charactarise as 'nationalist' are the ones behind it, and that's why rather than engage with it the SY are creating their own organisation, when they've done sfa up to this point re fascism in Ireland.

We've been involved in anti-fascist activity for decades, collaborating with other groups and campaigners. What gives left-republicans and the like the god given right to be the only anti-fascist activists? Who ordained them? Socialist Party members, anarchists, SWPers and others were involved in anti-fascist work before AFA even came into existence in Ireland. Maybe we should ordain ourselves except we're not sectarian enough to do so like you apparently are.

Secondly, AFA have been involved in anti-fascist work, yes but have they bothered to contact anyone else about these activities? No. So it's very hard for other groups and organisations to work along side them when they don't bother to involve other organisations. I understand that for secrecy, they don't want to announce fascist meetings to the world but there's nothing stopping them involving other organisations on a limited scale. The Fascists Out! campaign in the North was able to involve other people and groups quite effectively without resorting to total secrecy.

[BOZG]

Limerick AFA seem to have had no problem working with SY at all.

[PRC-UTE]

Secondly, AFA have been involved in anti-fascist work, yes but have they bothered to contact anyone else about these activities? No.

That's an odd criticism as AFA is made up of a mix of activists from varying political traditions to begin with.


Limerick AFA seem to have had no problem working with SY at all.

Didn't think they would. And to be fair, there are anarchists in AFA. I think you're misunderstanding me completely: my whole point was there is an established and active anti-fascist movement in Ireland, and it would be better to combine efforts.



What gives left-republicans and the like the god given right to be the only anti-fascist activists? Who ordained them? Socialist Party members, anarchists, SWPers and others were involved in anti-fascist work before AFA even came into existence in Ireland.

I never said left republicans have a god-given right to be anti-fascists over the rest of the workers movement, in fact I know anarchists in the anti-fash movement. I never denied that at all, I only questioned why there is a new movement being established by SY solely.

And Left/socialist Republicans were fighting fascism long before there were any anarchist organisations in Ireland, long before the CWI/SP existed. It's just funny as the lefties who call Republicans 'sectarian nationalists' tend to ignore that fact.
________

Anyway, good luck to those organising this, and I'd like to commend their hard work. I'll refrain from criticisms that could be seen by those outside the Left as detracting from their efforts.

[BOZG]

That's an odd criticism as AFA is made up of a mix of activists from varying political traditions to begin with.

Didn't think they would. And to be fair, there are anarchists in AFA. I think you're misunderstanding me completely: my whole point was there is an established and active anti-fascist movement in Ireland, and it would be better to combine efforts.

I never said left republicans have a god-given right to be anti-fascists over the rest of the workers movement, in fact I know anarchists in the anti-fash movement. I never denied that at all, I only questioned why there is a new movement being established by SY solely.

And Left/socialist Republicans were fighting fascism long before there were any anarchist organisations in Ireland, long before the CWI/SP existed. It's just funny as the lefties who call Republicans 'sectarian nationalists' tend to ignore that fact.
________

Anyway, good luck to those organising this, and I'd like to commend their hard work. I'll refrain from criticisms that could be seen by those outside the Left as detracting from their efforts.

Yes, I know there are any varying tendencies but that doesn't mean that they've "disseminated" activities to other organisations and tendencies. Their most recent actions, around the Celtic Wolves have been kept "secret" generally rather than calling for a broader mobilisation against their meetings.

Yes, I agree that a combined effort is of more value and that's why we've invited all anti-fascist campaigners to come along and discuss things and that includes AFA. They are welcome to come to the rally and meeting and discuss with us but that is entirely up to them. They also would have found an echo amongst other left groups if they'd raised the issue of the Celtic Wolves meeting but chose not to. In the past, they also criticised other left-groups about a picket outside a meeting that Jorg Haider was in for not joining in their attempt to rush the door but failed to point out that they didn't actually tell anyone else that they were planning to do it. This gives a certain impression of AFA ignoring other groups which makes it difficult to be involved in work with them if they're not that willing to involve other. Hopefully AFA will come along next Wednesday and we can look at what anti-fascist work can be done jointly. I would like nothing better than to see that.

You're also making an assumption about SY trying to start some new movement. Nowhere did I state that we were, either in this post or in my Indymedia announcement. I said that we wanted others to come along to discuss how we can discuss furthering anti-racism and anti-fascist work broadly and that includes AFA if they choose to come along. We've done work in Limerick with AFA down there with no issues and I'm sure that we've done work with AFA in the past both on anti-fascist/racist stuff as well as broader anti-capitalist work with members of AFA.

[1968]

I think this is a very interesting discussion but i don't think it should be continued online. From afar, it would like there is factions or rifts in irish anti-fascism. When in fact it, the opposite is the case.

If anything, this discussion should be continued in person over a pint or at a organised meeting.

[BOZG]

Or a punch up! :D

I think 1968 is right. Open forums are not always the best place for discussion.

[1968]

Few fash on Stormfront Ireland muttering about coming down to this demo.

As i've said before, its important all antifa (of all political persuasions) attend this demo. This wednesday.

[Dr Mindbender]

we need an antifa movement up north now that the BNP are planning to contest for stormont. If any northern comrades can help me build my new proposed group your contribution is much needed.

Read the link to my blog in my sig for more info.

[Batman]

The BNP have been threatening this for years 'ulster socialist' but why vote for the BNP when you can vote for the real thing, the DUP!?

[POUM]

What's DUP?

[Dr Mindbender]

The BNP have been threatening this for years 'ulster socialist' but why vote for the BNP when you can vote for the real thing, the DUP!?
Griffin himself came over and hosted a rally very close to where i live.

I think they mean it this time, and with the lack of credible oppostion against them, they stand a realistic chance of doing well.

Without coming across as defending the DUP, they may be theocratic bigots but they're certainly not fascists (albeit not far off) in the same sense as the BNP.


PS. Why the parenthesis (' ') when addressing me? Are you trying to insinuate a lack of consistency in my politics? I may be 'from Ulster' but it doesnt make me a unionist.

[Dr Mindbender]

What's DUP?

Democratic unionist party - A reactionary anti-catholic, anti-Irish unity, anti-worker fundamentalist presbyterian party led by white haired dinosaur Ian Paisley.

[Connolly]

I have more but im unsure whether those who attended would wish their face to be posted up.
It was organized by the Socialist Youth and there was a discussion/meeting in Wynnes Hotel afterwards, where a German comrade was invited over to speak.
The turn out for the Demonstration was good, but not as many turned out for the meeting afterwards.
Sorry for any IRSP bias also :P , the banner was displayed only for the photo shots.

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[Connolly]

There was no sign of those cowardly Irish Nazi's about.

Though Stormfront reports:


I saw it and took a few close-up photos from an advantage spot on the second storey of a particular building on O'Connell Street. I had a look at these photos afterwards. I think I see one or two guys who I've seen before at these kind of protests in other photos I took. Maybe I could upload their photo sometime to try to scare some sense into them? I'm sure they'll then stop supporting these kind of anti-irish demonstrations under the so called "anti-racist" propaganda.

Ha, the little fuck - better not have been of me.

[BOZG]

Was I talking to you outside Wynn's a couple of times?

[RedDawn]

Good stall, comrades.

[Connolly]

Was I talking to you outside Wynn's a couple of times?


You must have been yeah, were you one of those two lads? - one with a striped top and another with an olive green coat? :D

Ha, small world!

[BOZG]

Yeah, I was in the olive green with the long hair. :)

[Connolly]

Yeah, I was in the olive green with the long hair.


I thought you looked familiar alright, but I couldnt pinpoint it. I know now where I seen you, on your profile pic from the old revleft format. I also invited you as SP rep on 'Class Politics Ireland' forum (im mike). Whats the chances :rolleyes: :cool:

Hey, might see you again sometime. ;)

[Connolly]

Do you know if anyone will be writing up a report for indymedia about it? - did anyone else take photo's?

I wouldnt want to jump ahead of the SP in doing it.

[POUM]

haha you have the yugoslav national flag :))

how many people showed up?

[Connolly]

I would guess about 40 (not all there at once) at the demonstration, and up to 20 at the public meeting.