The Blac Bloc - opinions...

[abstractmentality]

i dont think i have seen a thread about the Blac Bloc (or Black Block, different spellings for different people), and i was wondering what people thought about this particular style of protesting.

i myself have been thinking about it for a while (since i went on one of a breakaway marche a few weeks back, pics can be seen in a recent thread of mine in this forum) and im still not sure what to make of all of it. i have been almost debating myself about this for some time.

hopefully some more people will have more in depth responses to this, although im not sure how many people actually come into this forum...

[MiNdGaMe]

Its an effective anarchist protest method

[abstractmentality]

Mindgame:
Im glad somebody answered me, but i was hoping for something a little more in depth.

i am well aware of the anarchist relation to it.

what makes me think though, however, is what the objective of Blac Bloc style protesting is. if it is to gain the support of the masses, then i dont think that it is a viable option, as the people doing simple civil disobedience in San Francisco are getting a lot of people to not like their actions, and the blac bloc is a bit more "in your face" then these sit downs at major intersections.

on the other hand, if the main objective is to energize and inspire a select few that decide to join in on their marches, then i say objective complete, as my experience did just that to me. i now see the ideas of protest in a much different light, which could not have been done through the blocked off walk style of protest i was previously accustomed to.

with that in mind, what is the main objective of the blac bloc style of protest and can this objective realistically be reached through the blac bloc style of protest?

ps. i recognize that "violence" in the eyes of a "blac bloc-er" can not be inflicted upon property, such as the breaking of a window, but rather something done to animals or people. this definition of violence used is most likely where the general public and the blac bloc do not communicate well on, giving the blac bloc a horrific look in the mass media.

[MiNdGaMe]

Its generally to center anarchists into one major group. The myth surrounding the black bloc is, when they appear at protests, "things are going to get violent and out of control" hence, anarchy is chaos etc... typical stereotyphes. As individual anarchists we can only archieve a minimum, as a group we can archieve much more.

[soulrise925]

the blac bloc is full of shit. keep ur eyes on www.thirdworldforum.org, there will be an article on the recent antiwar demonstrations and how they've all been fucked up.

[mentalbunny]

Excuse me for my ignorance but what is Blac Bloc?

Personally I reckon silent marches are the best, quite intimidating, means you're not a "rent-a-crowd" kinda person.

[abstractmentality]

mentalbunny:
This article (http://www.theexperiment.org/articles.php?news_id=967) is a short writing on some aspects of the blac bloc from the perspective of four blac bloc-ers.

for a more indepth reading, check out a site (http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/raisethefist/exit/reclaim.html) that was put up by and is part of the legal case against Sherman Martin Austin, the founder of Raisethefist.com (http://www.raisethefist.com)

[MiNdGaMe]

Sherman is a Genuis, Raise The Fist is an excellent source of information.

[Valkyrie]

Black Bloc tactic is similiar to The White-Overalls. When it's done right, it provides a front-line defense for protestors from police brutality. They WILL stand between the protesters and police and take the immediate brunt of gas and clubbing and whatever else. They also use a tactic called "unarresting" - hacksawing through handcuffs of protestors who have been arrested. So, basically, their first cause is civil disobedience in a direct-aggressive action sort of way. But, yes, you can be sure if there is a black bloc and a Starbucks nearby, a brick is gonna be hurled through their window.

I myself, would never do a black bloc, only for the reason that I would get totalled due to my slight size.... and would therefore be a huge detriment to what they are trying to do. And anyway, I don't like getting hemmed in at big protests... the one straggling behind picking daisies... that's me! Other than that, I fully support them. I don't think they cause the violence as much as try to prevent the violence that's unleashed upon the peaceful protesters who just happen to find themselves up front with no way to get out when the cops open-fire on them.

However, it could be argued that their very presence, provokes hostility and reaction in the police.

I like them though!

http://www.wombles.org.uk/
http://www.infoshop.org/blackbloc.html

[peaccenicked]

It is a matter of personal choice, anarchists should be defended against the police by all leftists and I am not fond of labels or hierarchies but I find a lot can be learned from Lenin who has been totally bastardised both left and right.

[abstractmentality]

Paris:
thank you for the links, they supplement what raisethefist has well.

i think that the black bloc issue is one that has been highly controversial, even within the hearts of anarchist, since its inception. from what i have experienced, they influenced me tremendously, but probably lost the people watching from a distance. weird dichotomy there.

check out the link i posted in mentalbunnys reply, the one signified by "a site," it also has some good information.

peaccenicked:
i completely agree that they need to be defended by all leftist. i know some hardcore authoritarians may disagree, but that is another discussion altogether.

(Edited by abstractmentality at 10:36 pm on Mar. 31, 2003)

[soulrise925]

i give the black bloc credit for upping the ante in the antiwar protests, but as anarchists i wonder what they hope to achieve by using the mass demonstrations as their main events where they hold direct action. im no anarchist but at the same time i would believe that their goal/purpose would be to further the struggle for revolution.

abstractmentality, your earlier question of if they are trying to gain the support of the masses or a "select few" is a good question. however, i think if you look at the objective situation i don't see how they accomplish either. we agree that they aren't capturing the imagination of the masses. at the same time, if they ARE capturing the imaginations of select few individuals what is it that these individuals go on to do? the black bloc as a collective doesn't seem to mobilize its numbers to continue doing work in their communities, etc. i'm rambling but by the way i see it, if the individuals who are inspired don't go to work at mobilizing for mass support, in the end they end up isolated and no closer to reaching the final goal of a revolution which will end the facism and authoratarian system of rule that they stand against. to simplify what im saying in a nutshell, without mass support it will go nowhere and they end up being no better than any other leftist ideologues who love to talk and hold on to their precious theories without putting them to practice because they couldn't match them with reality to save their lives.

***
abstractmentality, i just checked your profile and saw that one of your listed locations is davis, ca. do u go to school at uc davis?

(Edited by soulrise925 at 5:44 am on April 1, 2003)

[abstractmentality]

soulrise925:
i think that by definition the black bloc is a decentralized group. with that in mind, after their convergences at events, im not sure what they do when they go back home. im sure some of them work for justice through reforms, for the time being, and im sure some go home and site on their ass and do nothing. however, the ration of people doing something to sitting on their ass is probably relatively close to, if not higher on the do something side, then the general population at a protest. that is most probably due to their more radical politics then the democrats that come out to the marches.

as far as what the select few that they invigerate, they can do some stuff. although i am not the most active person on campus, you know some stuff that i do, and i am one of those people.

about the mass support thing:
i agree completely. since i think that they are alienating most other people by these tactics, i dont see these specific tactics causing any type of a revolution any time soon. the only way they could get mass support is if they were marching, and the police just started to beat them, and throw tear gas, etc, unprovoked, with a CNN, NBC, CBS, and FOXnews cameras all on them the entire time. if that were to happen, more people would feel sympathetic, but i doubt that they would get too many more people out to their break away marches. besides, i dont think any of those news stations would show that on national TV.

realistically, i dont think they can get the masses behind them, and without that, not much can happen.

[mentalbunny]

Thanks for the information, it was really useful. I'm as yet not entirley decided on the matter but I think I give them my support in most circumstances, it's the violence that worries me but it seems that it's always initiated by the Police so it's justified.

[abstractmentality]

mentalbunny:
im not sure if you read what i wrote earlier, but it is important to know that "violence" in the eyes of a "blac bloc-er" can not be inflicted upon property, such as the breaking of a window, but rather something done to animals or people. that aspect of the word violence is important to realize, and plays a heavy part in the black bloc thought.

[mentalbunny]

Thanks for the info again, I agree with that, even if the rest of society doesn't.

[CompadreGuerrillera]

I LOVE BLAC BLOCK!!!! I was there, it was awesome, and i didnt get arrested:) !!! I totally agree with the black bloc's going on, and i think there needs to be more!
ROCK ON SF!!
i dont care if there anarchists, anarchists are willing to ally with socialist groups and in fact, our org: the RCYB, is allied with BLACK FLAG, a local, large anarchist group that formed the splinter march a while back in SF, as long as they are wiling to co-operate, they can be, and should be considred comrades of the revolution

[Valkyrie]

Thanks AM.. RTF has a really tight put together site. I'll have to read through all the messages there when I get some time.

Just to note: anarchist tactical theory is as diverse as socialist theory.... there are insurrectionist anarchists as there are socialists who believe in armed-revolution. There is also a good deal of pacifist anarchists as well as anarchists varying between those two degrees. they can't really be lopped into one defining category. there are actually much more anarchists at protests working with the 'Food not Bombs' people than there are anarchists forming black blocs;

Are they reaching a broadbase? Well, In the respect that they work everyday with affinity groups and with their own groups and the everyday ground they cover in their constant activism and particularly on localized social problems shows that there not gonna go away any time soon or settle for anything less.







(Edited by Paris at 9:00 am on April 2, 2003)

[Talid]

They serve a very important function of standing between the protesters and the police. Most protesters come and are not willing to be arrested. They want their voices to be heard, but not if it means a night in jail. Just a few weeks ago, I was in DC. We have a small march that day. The cops trapped us in a few blocks. Most protesters were not willing to take action, and we lacked a presents of a black block. We had a few scattered anarchs, but not enough to break out. So we sat there for a few hours then got to march behind some police cars.

In the past, we have seen the anarchs in enough force to break through the police lines so the masses can follow. It happened in boston a few years back. A colum of about 40 in rows on 4 (ten rows deep) charged the police line and forced out into the street. The rest of the black block motivated the people into the street. They refused to leave until everyone arrested was free. They all marched out together.

Everyone has different levels of risk they are willing to take at protests. There needs to be some people who are willing to risk arrest and injury for the protection of the people and the continuation of the march.

Also, who else can you expect to come loaded down with sheilds and armor? We have started practicing some shield tactics for breaking cop lines that appear to be very effective around here. hit a weak part of the cops with 24 sheildsmen (4 per row). You can wedge it open no problem, they only stand one or two deep.