Neo-Nazi Russia?

[TheDifferenceEngine]

I don't know much about this issue but I've heard of nazi gangs in moscow and A party called "Nazbols" but I dont really know the details, can anyone help?

[Coggeh]

National Bolsheviks ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bolshevism

quote from stormfront "Nationalist Bolshevism is NOT based on race and blood but is based on Nationalistic Nationalism," found that funny .... :)

[Holden Caulfield]

these guys really are the intellectual elite,

there are also some 'real' (well as real as they can be) russian neo-nazis in Israel, as a reaction to the way the Israeli treat them apparently, so a load of Russian immigrants who got in through relative became neos.

so there are even more fascists in Israel now, i didnt think anymore could fit in

[TheDifferenceEngine]

quote from stormfront "Nationalist Bolshevism is NOT based on race and blood but is based on Nationalistic Nationalism," found that funny .... :)

Should'nt expect Facists to make sense.

How much Political Capital do the Nationalists hold in Russia?

[AntifaHooligan]

these guys really are the intellectual elite,

there are also some 'real' (well as real as they can be) russian neo-nazis in Israel, as a reaction to the way the Israeli treat them apparently, so a load of Russian immigrants who got in through relative became neos.

so there are even more fascists in Israel now, i didnt think anymore could fit in

You are thinking about Patrol 36, right? They are not really isrealians, they are just a bunch of german nazis who go to Israel just to beat up jews...

Still, many of the guys in Patrol 36 come from jewish families. Sick...

[Cmde. Slavyanski]

The nationalists don't have much power though, but as for the Nazbols, there are different factions. People call them Nazis but it is a little more complicated than that. Personally I think it is a collection of stupid fetishes rolled into one. What bothers me however is how Nazbols can be found at any major Communist rally, including the last 1 May rally I was at in Moscow.

[Winter]

I've noticed that Europe seems to have a much more larger population of fascists than America. Why do you think this is?

[Jimmie Higgins]

I've noticed that Europe seems to have a much more larger population of fascists than America. Why do you think this is?

The US ruling class doesn't need the extreme measures that fascists could deliver since the US ruling class has been able to keep left-wing dissent and strikes low by itself. So people like David Duke and Buchanan are ridiculed and marginalized even by the capitalist parties.

Economic problems and the disorder in the ruling class caused by the Iraq war, has opened the door though and you have people like the Minutemen and Ron Paul who are gaining footholds. With the left so weak and disorganized, I think if the economy tanks, there might be a resurgence of US fascism.

Also, in Europe there's social-democratic parties and left-wing parties who signed up for the neo-liberal program. Because they failed to provide a real alternative to neoliberalism, they have opened the door for Fascists like Le Pen to offer their "alternative" and people are dissillusioned enough by social-democrats to listen.

[Winter]

The US ruling class doesn't need the extreme measures that fascists could deliver since the US ruling class has been able to keep left-wing dissent and strikes low by itself. So people like David Duke and Buchanan are ridiculed and marginalized even by the capitalist parties.

Economic problems and the disorder in the ruling class caused by the Iraq war, has opened the door though and you have people like the Minutemen and Ron Paul who are gaining footholds. With the left so weak and disorganized, I think if the economy tanks, there might be a resurgence of US fascism.

Also, in Europe there's social-democratic parties and left-wing parties who signed up for the neo-liberal program. Because they failed to provide a real alternative to neoliberalism, they have opened the door for Fascists like Le Pen to offer their "alternative" and people are dissillusioned enough by social-democrats to listen.

You're totally right. I was just thinking about this issue the other day. When it comes to American media, being on the far left is a bad thing and is used to slander others whereas nobody ever throws the insult of being far to the right. Both republicans and democrats are so far to the right that nazis are not needed to enforce there bourgeoise power.

[Cmde. Slavyanski]

I've noticed that Europe seems to have a much more larger population of fascists than America. Why do you think this is?

For one thing- heritage, Europe, unlike the US, had actual Fascist parties that were successful at one time. Europe was also the birthplace of a lot of philosophical ideas that would become popular with Fascists, like Spengler, Evola, Schmitt, etc. Also one has to look at the conditions of the countries where Fascism became so successful. Germany and Italy were nations devastated by war, and their position and lack of a decent colonial empire limited their markets and resources, and they needed drastic measures to try to catch up to Britain and France in those departments.

In Eastern Europe, a major reason is the decades of anti-Stalin, anti-Communist propaganda beamed in from sources like Radio Free Europe. Because of the near-constant anti-Stalin rhetoric from the Kremlin since 1956, this propaganda had credibility. The US also used emigre communities for this propaganda campaign, most notably Poles and Ukrainians, but also Hungarians and Croatians. Aside from the Poles, these other countries had Fascist legacies. A sort of shift in the way the war was portrayed occurred, somewhat early in some cases, which went like so:

1. Increasingly, while the Germans would always be villains, Germans in the west could be portrayed positively on the Eastern Front. The acceptance of certain German officers' memoirs led to a sanitizing of the German record there. You could attack the SS at whim usually, but people wrote books about the Wehrmacht as though it waged a clean campaign in occupied Soviet territory- total nonsense in reality. Not only did they end up murdering close to 8 million civillans, among that number was the 1.5 million or so Jews killed by the Einsatzgruppen alone, which factors into the 6 million Holocaust figure for Jews(this figure does not include non-Jews).

For more information on this, check out this book: Myth of the Eastern Front
http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Eastern-Front-Nazi-Soviet-American/dp/0521712319/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200961628&sr=8-1

2. In line with this trend, was the CIA's work with emigre groups. It took them a couple decades, but they were able to get these groups to tone down most of their openly pro-Nazi, anti-Semitic conspiratorial propaganda in their publications. In return, a new trend developed where foreign volunteers from Eastern countries, like the Galician Ukrainians of the 14th SS, or the collaborating partisans of the UPA, could be portrayed as heroes fighting for freedom "Against Hitler and Stalin". The Nazis couldn't be glorified of course, but these groups could re-write their histories so as to pretend they were just fighting for freedom. Not that much unlike the Afghan mujahadeen or Contras. Croatian communities in the US would openly celebrate holidays for Ante Pavelic, Russian emigres had memorials for Vlassov, Ukrainian communities supported Stepan Bandera, and so on.

When the Union collapsed, these people gained instant credibility, and many of these new "democrats" tried to rehabilitate these "heroes" with the full blessing and support of the US and European Community countries. Thus it is no wonder that many youth, told that their nations were wrecked because of Communism(which inverts cause and effect), look at these heroes and in a very common sense way, start to take their real, original messages to heed, rather than the sanitized "against Hitler and Stalin" nonsense. Then they start booting up. Europe is trying to suppress this now- but there is simply no way they can. Their anti-Communist historiography and rampant decadence and capitalism are conflicting.

Attached to this is a photo I took on 1 May 2007, note the black,yellow, white Russian imperial banners in the crowd.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c35/jpslovjanski/smallrally2.jpg

[Die Neue Zeit]

You're totally right. I was just thinking about this issue the other day. When it comes to American media, being on the far left is a bad thing and is used to slander others whereas nobody ever throws the insult of being far to the right. Both republicans and democrats are so far to the right that nazis are not needed to enforce there bourgeoisie power.

I'll add one more reason, which isn't political at all: Most Americans are immigrants or descendants of immigrants, so the not-so-indigenous "whites" can't really say "America for whites" or the equivalent crap. In Europe, on the other hand, you hear calls of "Britain for Britons" (relative to immigrants from Eastern Europe), "France for the French" (relative to immigrants from northern Africa, particularly Algeria), "Russia for Russians" (relative to immigrants from Central Asia) etc. because of irrational prejudice and fear coming from minority elements of the indigenous population, which in turn forms the majority in their respective countries.