Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies

[Led Zeppelin]

Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies is a 1997 book by Jared Diamond, professor of geography and physiology at UCLA and graduate of The Roxbury Latin School. In 1998 it won a Pulitzer Prize and the Aventis Prize for Best Science Book. A documentary based on the book was broadcast on PBS in July 2005, produced by the National Geographic Society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

I bought this book and was wondering if anyone else here has read it and what their opinion of it is.

[Devrim]

I enjoyed it. There is nothing amazing there, but he argues his case well, and gives good examples, and anecdotes..
Devrim

[jake williams]

There were bits that were really interesting but bits that were at best annoying, at worst disturbing. If I remember correctly he really took for granted the idea that the West is wealthy and paradisical because we're full of Free Enterprise and Markets and all these things.

[Mujer Libre]

jammoe, I don't really remember those bits? Do you remember any specific examples?

It just seems a bit odd because Diamond always came across to me as somewhat leftish, and at the very least cautious about embracing capitalism etc. (I mean, look at Collapse)

But anyway, I quite enjoyed the book. As Devrim said, it's not terribly new work, but it's a good read and is useful as a source of information.

[Pawn Power]

Yeah, I thought it got worse the more you got into it..

most of my criticisms would come from his poor knowledge of archeology.

[jake williams]

It just seems a bit odd because Diamond always came across to me as somewhat leftish, and at the very least cautious about embracing capitalism etc. (I mean, look at Collapse)
Yeah it's interesting, I got that sort of "gut feeling" too. I think a big part of it is he's one of the few people in the world that isn't a huge racist, and that automatically sets him apart from the right, even the centre.


jammoe, I don't really remember those bits? Do you remember any specific examples?
I forget specific examples, I can dig up my copy later. I just remember something, near the end, in fact, it might even have been a special edition or something where he added an afterword, I forget exactly. The gist of it was his saying something like "People say 'the West is rich because of capitalism and free enterprise', but I'm interested in why they have capitalism and free enterprise", and it read like his automatic acceptance of the idea that capitalism and free enterprise led to wealth, rather than, you know, colonialist command economies and so forth.

[jake williams]

Ok, here, near the top of page 250 in my copy, in the "Necessity's Mother" chapter, you should find the page if you look up "capitalism" in the index:

... (4) Modern capitalism is, and the ancient Roman economy was not, organized in a way that made it potentially rewarding to invest capital in technological development. (5) The strong individualism of U.S. society allows successful inventors to keep earnings for themselves, whereas strong family ties in New Guinea ensure that someone who begins to earn money will be joined by a dozen relatives expecting to move in and be fed and supported.
...
All ten of these hypotheses are plausible. But none of them has any necessary association with geography. If patent rights, capitalism, and certain religions do promote technology, what selected for those factors in postmedieval Europe but not in contemporary China [sic - obviously China's model is working damn "well" by the standard indicators] or India...

[Tower of Bebel]

There some good hypotheses in this book, but like some already have said: some parts are very anoying. Not one of the books you really need to have if you are some sort of an amateur historian, on the other hand it is not total bullshit.

[ellipsis]

i saw the PBS version and was very underwhelmed and disappointed, although i did learn a thing or two.

[Mujer Libre]

Ok, here, near the top of page 250 in my copy, in the "Necessity's Mother" chapter, you should find the page if you look up "capitalism" in the index:
Cheers. I get what you mean. I do remember being frustrated with Diamond. So many good points, but he just... doesn't take the critique further.

Still, it's a good book for what it is, a refutation of racism from a scientific-historic perspective.