Man made global warming and climate change

[spartan]

Do you think that man made global warming and climate change could bring about the material conditions necessary for Socialism?

There is no doubt that man made global warming and climate change will have a catastrophic effect on the world, but the disasters it causes to various sectors of society (Food, industry, etc) will drive up prices and people will soon see the oppression that they experience when only rich people can afford to live comfortably and they cant.

[Vanguard1917]

1) Your hypothesis - that 'There is no doubt that man made global warming and climate change will have a catastrophic effect on the world' - is one which isn't backed up by facts. In reality, there is much doubt about how global warming will affect human societies.

2) There is no reason to assume that climate change will drive up the cost of food production. Capitalism can adapt quite straightforwardly to rises (and falls) in temperature. With modern agricultural methods and technology, food production today is less vulnerable to changes in climate than before.

[Dr Mindbender]

Do you think that man made global warming and climate change could bring about the material conditions necessary for Socialism?

.
yep, as long as that form of socialism provides water wings for all! :D

[Wilfred]

More the latter. Every change in nature effects our material surroundings (which is a most banal observation). What environmentalists do is sensationally overestimate problems, and grossly underestimate the ability of human beings to deal with the problems.
And of course idiots are known for ignoring evidence, sigh. The level of scientific knowledge here is really low. :-(
But if you would be so kind as to look up what will happen to the location and size of agricultural area's around the world?


I made no comment about the scientific claims of the documentary, since i am unqualified to do so. I do realise that the consensus among scientists is that global temperatures are rising somewhat and that human's may be contributing to it somewhat.
SOMEWHAT!!! What the fuck! The consensus is three degrees centigrade. Just read the latest ipcc rapport.
That is not somewhat and the timeperiod over which this will happen is unprecedented.

[LSD]

Do you think that man made global warming and climate change could bring about the material conditions necessary for Socialism?

No.

Although I suppose that in consert with other factors, a catastrophic environmental shift could precipitate capitalism's collapse; real political change typically requires political action. Crises can motivate that kind of acticity, but a rise in temperature is not going to weaken the rather strong pillars of the global economic superstructure.

Besides, capitalism's proven itself quite adept at dealing with physical emergencies. There's always money to be made amid the ruins, and when people are struggling to even survive, they're generally too busy to investigate alternative political models.

Which is why precious few revolutions have begun during epidemics. Orthodoxy is never strongest than when the masses are desperate for basic subsistance.

There's this strange myth on the left that the key to awakening the proletariat lies in misery; that if only the people were worse off, they'd be more likely to rise up.

And while there can be no doubt that naked exploitation has inspired most of the great revolutionary movements of the past, real revolutionary change can only come from a class on the ascendency. The workers have to be strong before they can be revolutionary, and strength does not come out of food shortages, it comes out of radical organization and political power.

People like to point to the nineteen-thirties as a high point for working class agitation, and for good reason. But what's often missed is that after the crash of 1929, the single biggest economic decline in world history was on October 19th, 1987.

The nineteen eighties witnessed some of the worst economic conditions in sixty years, both in Europe and the Americas. And yet the 1980s also represent one of the most politically conservative eras in recent memory, perhaps only rivaled by the crushing horror that was the 1950s.

It doesn't matter how miserable people get, if they have no other options they have no where else to turn. And, unlike the '30s, by the time the '80s rolled around, most workers didn't see a viable alternative to capitalism. And unfortunately, that's still mostly the case today.

Our most important responsibility is to show them they're wrong.