The Serpent

[Dimentio]

One question I have is if not the Serpent in "Genesis" could be seen as a revolutionary character for wanting to liberate the human being from the thralldom of a jealous god.

[Dr Mindbender]

certainly not in the marxist sense, since A) the story was fictional and B) there were no means of production in those days therefore it pre-dates capitalism.

[Faux Real]

Of course! Without having ever disobeyed God they would never have paved the way for knowledge about things other than what is fed to us, both by independently observing and examining the world around us independent from a Master and via the acts of "disobeyment" themselves, most rules being completely silly anyway.

God had Adam and Eve as his own little slaves or pets, coercing them up until the "forbidden fruit" incident. After eating the fruit, God regarded humans a threat with the manifestation of rebellion. He allowed them and their offspring to live, but at the cost of banishment from the "Garden" trying to keep his control on some by offering "paradise" if some humans still obeyed his every command.

So without the Serpent, in offering the advice to the being created in the likeness of God, we would still act and "think" like primitive animals (sad to say some people are still in that phase!:p).

Essentially he helped us become conscious beings, just as the Serpent did, like God himself.

Seems like we are still striving to build a replacement for heaven on earth. Only then would the revolution succeed!

[Dimentio]

The Serpent is similar to Prometheus, the Titan which gave mankind fire.

That is why I thought that NET;s symbol should be a serpent which bites its own tail.

[Zurdito]

certainly not in the marxist sense, since A) the story was fictional and B) there were no means of production in those days therefore it pre-dates capitalism.


Marx called Spartacus a revolutionary.

[Jazzratt]

That is why I thought that NET;s symbol should be a serpent which bites its own tail.

But the Ouroboros has it's own set of symbolic meanings which may not be entirely compatible with the NET (it's still an awesome symbol though).

As for the idea of the Serpent being some kind of "good guy" in the Bible, well Satanists have long used a similar reading - Lucifer loved the humans so much he wanted to give them the freedom that God had denied them. If one looks at it as purely allegorical it can be interesting, but ultimately I don't think relying on bronze age allegories helps the left, or its image.

[Dr Mindbender]

i think its ironic that progressive thinkers are nostalgic for such pre-renaissance nonsense.

[Jazzratt]

i think its ironic that progressive thinkers are nostalgic for such pre-renaissance nonsense.
Consider that a lot of leftists were born into, grew up in and ultimately operate within a society in which these folk tales are ubiquitous and it becomes a lot more understandable, although it doesn't really justify it.

[Dimentio]

Consider that a lot of leftists were born into, grew up in and ultimately operate within a society in which these folk tales are ubiquitous and it becomes a lot more understandable, although it doesn't really justify it.

A political project is 80% what it is not saying directly (aesthetics, looks, values) and 20% what it is directly saying, just like 80% of average communication is made by body language.

There is for example a difference between "the hammer'n'sickle" and a gray box as a symbol.

And try to create an uproar with the Teletubby song as marching anthem.

[Dr Mindbender]

A political project is 80% what it is not saying directly (aesthetics, looks, values) and 20% what it is directly saying, just like 80% of average communication is made by body language.

There is for example a difference between "the hammer'n'sickle" and a gray box as a symbol.

And try to create an uproar with the Teletubby song as marching anthem.

why is not possible to create new symbols without the pseudo religious undertones?

Is it simply for the sake of parody are we lacking so badly in creativity?

[Dimentio]

It is not religious undertones, but psychological undertones.

[RedAnarchist]

Is this why you chose Serpent as your username?

[Dimentio]

Why not?

[RedAnarchist]

I'm not saying you shouldn't have it as your username, just wondering if it was why you chose it as your username.

[Dimentio]

Don't remember ^^

[Demogorgon]

One question I have is if not the Serpent in "Genesis" could be seen as a revolutionary character for wanting to liberate the human being from the thralldom of a jealous god.

A lot of writers have certainly interpreted it that way, and that kind of thing crops up in fiction quite often, and some more esoteric religions see it that way.

As others have noted, the story is a fairly archytypal Prometheus style story. It is interesting the way these all crop up in very sililar forms throughout different cultures.

[MarxSchmarx]

OR

The serpent represents bourgeoisie!

The workers (Adam and Eve) basically did just fine by themselves before the Seprent came along, thank you very much.

But no. The serpent needed them for its own agenda, even though they didn't need the serpent. All the serpent could do was to tempt the workers to give up what was rightfully theirs in exchange for an illusory, a priori unattainable, state of bliss. The serpent screwed the workers over for all eternity, and history has been a struggle ever since to rid ourselves of this pernicious influence.