Question on left communism and the vanguard

[Die Neue Zeit]

Perhaps this is a coincidence for the Turkish comrades on this board, but isn't there a slight parallel between the left-communist position on the post-revolution vanguard party and the Turkish military?

According to the "communist left" position, the vanguard party would never be in a position of regular political power, yet would be ready to correct things whenever there are failings in the workers' government.

Thoughts?

[spartan]

According to the "communist left" position, the vanguard party would never be in a position of power, yet would be ready to correct things whenever there are failings in the workers' government.
How is "correcting things when they go wrong" not power or a position of power on the part of those doing the "correcting" of the "wrong things"?

You need to have power and also be in a position of power to correct things when they go wrong!

If anything this type of vanguard would be an invisible power behind the throne type of organization that would eventually, like all vanguards, become a seperate class that will act in its own class intrests (Alot like the Turkish military in Turkey).

It would be a "Socialist" Knights Templar :lol:

[kromando33]

As Lenin rightly pointed out, left communism is an infantile disorder.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ What a reductionist statement that doesn't address my question. :(

[Devrim]

Originally posted by Jacob [email protected] 31, 2007 10:59 pm
Perhaps this is a coincidence for the Turkish comrades on this board, but isn't there a slight parallel between the left-communist position on the post-revolution vanguard party and the Turkish military?


I think that it is a coincidence. The coincidence is that the two most prominent left communists who post on these boards are members of a Turkish organisation. Left communism though is not particularly strong in Turkey, nor does it have its stronest roots there.



According to the "communist left" position, the vanguard party would never be in a position of regular political power, yet would be ready to correct things whenever there are failings in the workers' government.

I think you have misunderstood what we are saying. Read the ICC on the period of transition (http://en.internationalism.org/pamphlets/transition).

Devrim

[spartan]

As Lenin rightly pointed out, left communism is an infantile disorder.
Why do you think that?

Is it because Mr Lenin and the party told you so?

[manic expression]

Spartan, you're about to needlessly drive another thread off-topic. I'll give one reply and then let you spout whatever you want.


How is "correcting things when they go wrong" not power or a position of power on the part of those doing the "correcting" of the "wrong things"?

You need to have power and also be in a position of power to correct things when they go wrong!

Power and authority is always needed in a society that has not abolished class. The bourgeoisie still exists in socialism, and so it is necessary to have a worker state as well as the repressive apparatus that comes with the state. The workers must defend their gains and further them through the use of the worker state.

However, the party is not synonymous with the state. The party serves to further the interests of the working class, but it does not always have complete power. It usually does in socialist societies, because the working class supports the vanguard.


If anything this type of vanguard would be an invisible power behind the throne type of organization that would eventually, like all vanguards, become a seperate class that will act in its own class intrests (Alot like the Turkish military in Turkey).The vanguard is not a separate class, by definition. The vanguard has never become its own class, by any study of history. The vanguard is the most politically advanced section of the working class. Period.


It would be a "Socialist" Knights Templar :lol:That makes no sense. Are you saying that members of the vanguard can't have sex? Are they part of the plotline in conspiracy-theory books and movies? Do they engage in a form of banking and are therefore targeted by the French Monarchy for their wealth? Joking aside, that comparison is absolutely ridiculous.

[FireFry]

That position is leninist and has nothing to do with the communist left