Antifa forum

[AntifaHooligan]

I think there should be an own antifa board. I mean an international and centralized one, where everyone who supports combating fascism physcially is welcome.

Anybody interested in helping out?

[Autonome-Antifa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 02:40 pm
I think there should be an own antifa board. I mean an international and centralized one, where everyone who supports combating fascism physcially is welcome.

Anybody interested in helping out?
I totally agree.

I can help you with the dutch part of it. :ph34r:

There was like a antifa-portal but it shut down. I dont know why but it happend.
Let me know when its gonna happen.

[Fietsketting]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 02:40 pm
I think there should be an own antifa board. I mean an international and centralized one, where everyone who supports combating fascism physcially is welcome.

Anybody interested in helping out?
Antifa Online? Antifa Worldwide?

Something like that? I like the idea but there should be alot of 'fieldwork' being done to attract the people who are familair and active in such groups.

Like having it send around on the AFA mailinglists for countries and a protocol to avoid exposure by hackers/police...

I am certain theres several more things but that jumps to mind first <_<

[An archist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 02:40 pm
I think there should be an own antifa board. I mean an international and centralized one, where everyone who supports combating fascism physcially is welcome.

Anybody interested in helping out?
If anything, we need less people on messageboards bragging about how many fash they fought (or looked dirty at) and more people on the streets and neighbourhoods organising against fascism.

[Death of a Nation]

http://www.oppforum.com. And it is all about organizing.

[Dr Mindbender]

ive got mixed feelings on this. Is it really productive to seperate anti-fascism from communism/socialism?

[lvleph]

I like the idea, but I don't think it would accomplish much accept keeping people informed. I guess that could be enough.

And btw to those I was planning some action with; I have canceled it due to lack of interest from enough people. The PMs aren't working so...

[Lenin II]

ive got mixed feelings on this. Is it really productive to seperate anti-fascism from communism/socialism?
The fact is that there a VAST number of working class people who would be the first to put on their steel-toed boots and head down to a BNP rally to bash some fash, but less so willing to cooperate with communism and socialism. Of course our ideas should be introduced whenever possible, but if they are close-minded about communism, they should at least be able to cooperate with us in our anti-fascist efforts. We have a common enemy, and though our immediate goals should be to seduce them with leftist ideas, an excellant way to symbollically unite with the working class is to first ally with them through anti-fascism efforts.

[AntifaHooligan]

I totally agree.

I can help you with the dutch part of it.

There was like a antifa-portal but it shut down. I dont know why but it happend.
Let me know when its gonna happen.

Im working on it right now. Its just called Autonom-Antifa, and you dont have to be radical or even leftist to join, just militant anti-fascist.

Havent found a decent domain for it yet though, but i think im gonna use .tk

Im gonna be working on it for a few weeks until i "open" it. If you are interested in helping out, you are welcome :)

[INDK]

ive got mixed feelings on this. Is it really productive to seperate anti-fascism from communism/socialism?

Well, I think that Anti-Fascism, though it is essential to class struggle and therefore intertwined with revolutionary leftism, you have to think of Anti-Fascism as productive for class struggle, not exactly the struggle for communism. There are definitely members of the working class that know the dangers Fascism imposes on them and would be happy to combat it, but would be not as easily persuaded to combat Capitalism with the same vigor; Anti-Fascism can be recognized as separate ideology, due to its compatibility with the working class as a whole, not simply the socialist movement as a whole. While if this forum started I would probably join purely to organize, but I will stress the importance of praxis; Anti-Fascist theory is sound and straightforward: Fascism is unhealthy for the people because it disregards the needs of people for the needs of State and national unity.

Moreover, Anti-Fascism as the main goal of the working class, especially with class-struggle organizations such as AntiFa, could open the Anti-Fascist proletariat to Socialist ways of thinking; and better unite the fighting with who the fighting are fighting for. I think separating Anti-Fascism as a theory in and of itself is healthy for the working class, certainly....

[AntifaHooligan]

ive got mixed feelings on this. Is it really productive to seperate anti-fascism from communism/socialism?

You dont HAVE to be socialist/communist to join this forum. The forum is open for all militant anti-fascists, even those who consider themselves as antifa and right-wing (some people actually do. Not many though, but some).

Anyway, who says anti-fascism HAS to be socialist?

[Dr Mindbender]

Lenin II and Antifa hooligan^^^,

i understand that its productive in the sense that it encourages people who wouldnt necessarilly agree with our ultimate objectives to engage with us, but you have to remember that fascism flourishes because of the failings of capitalism and the absence of a credible alternative. I used to be active in the ANL (a non-communist antifa organisation that went into obscurity) and our whole pretence was trying to sell anti-fascism to the general public without them believing we were acting as a socialist front. It was so frustrating because people had issues that the cappies werent dealing with but the fascists were and i felt totally helpless in my 'non-revolutionary' guise.

The most effective weapon against fascism is in my opinion, education and the presence of a revolutionary explanation and an alternative to the present status quo. The public arent as thick as some of us may think, lets give them some credit sometimes. People are disgruntled, angry and feel as if no-ones dealing with their problems. Its those problems we need to confront first before the boneheads do.

[Autonome-Antifa]

Im working on it right now. Its just called Autonom-Antifa, and you dont have to be radical or even leftist to join, just militant anti-fascist.

Havent found a decent domain for it yet though, but i think im gonna use .tk

Im gonna be working on it for a few weeks until i "open" it. If you are interested in helping out, you are welcome :)


www.antifa.tk (http://www.antifa.tk)
www.antifa.eu (http://www.antifa.eu)

[AntifaHooligan]

Im planning to make a "Feminism" forum at the board, but I am a bit sceptical.
Also, do you people think it should have a religion forum? I mean, it is an anti-fascist forum, but the religion forum could be the place to discuss fundamentalism, etc.

What do you think?

[Dr Mindbender]

i dont think all these 'single-issue' projects are helpful.

[INDK]

Agreed, you should keep it to Anti-Fascism, Anti-Fascist theory and Anti-Fascist practice, and I suppose a chit-chat and general political discussion forum.

[RaiseYourVoice]

Anyway, who says anti-fascism HAS to be socialist?
Everyone with a class based analyses of society.

right wingers promote sexism, racism, security states etc. themselves, how are they going to fight fashists?
Social Democrats also support wars, anti-worker positions etc.
Anti-Germans and other wacko groups do more bad then good with their "analyses" of society.

Effective anti-fashism can and will only come from the left. sure everyone can beat up a fasho, not everyone can put up idea against them, prevent them from spreading their ideology etc.
antifa is more then black clothes and a baseball bat. its media events, destributing flyers, info evening for the local population etc. etc.

[AntifaHooligan]

Everyone with a class based analyses of society.

right wingers promote sexism, racism, security states etc. themselves, how are they going to fight fashists?
Social Democrats also support wars, anti-worker positions etc.
Anti-Germans and other wacko groups do more bad then good with their "analyses" of society.

Effective anti-fashism can and will only come from the left. sure everyone can beat up a fasho, not everyone can put up idea against them, prevent them from spreading their ideology etc.
antifa is more then black clothes and a baseball bat. its media events, destributing flyers, info evening for the local population etc. etc.

"Not socialist" doesnt necisserily mean "right-wing" either... I know a lot of people who consider themselves as militant-antis, planning to get active, etc. but apart from that doesnt really care about politics.

Remember cable street, where thousands of ordinary citizens stood up against the fascists.

[Omi]

And RaiseYourVoice forgets the existance of anarchist anti-fascists. We have a lot of them in holland. More even than socialists, I think. At least the very active anti-fascists.

[kromando33]

Actually I don't think that patriarchal sexism, homophobia, racism etc are apart from class, in fact I think they reinforce each other and all come under the sphere of bourgeois classism.

[AntifaHooligan]

And RaiseYourVoice forgets the existance of anarchist anti-fascists. We have a lot of them in holland. More even than socialists, I think. At least the very active anti-fascists.

I would say anarchism is a sort of socialism.

[jaffe]

"Not socialist" doesnt necisserily mean "right-wing" either... I know a lot of people who consider themselves as militant-antis, planning to get active, etc. but apart from that doesnt really care about politics.

Remember cable street, where thousands of ordinary citizens stood up against the fascists.

they were jews or/and member of the communist party.

[Dr Mindbender]

I would say anarchism is a sort of socialism.
its also been argued that its a form of conservatism too (reduced state).

[RaiseYourVoice]

And RaiseYourVoice forgets the existance of anarchist anti-fascists. We have a lot of them in holland. More even than socialists, I think. At least the very active anti-fascists.
As mentioned already, i considered anarchists socialists. real anarchist engage in class war too after all

Ah yes and my right wing comment was about this:

even those who consider themselves as antifa and right-wing

as for people who hate nazis and generally have a humanist stance but arent into politics: there one should try to bind them to antifashist / anarchist / communist organisations, hating nazis at least in my experience turned out to be a good start to get interessted in politics. A forum though, were they brag about having beat up some random nazi does not help our movement in my opinion

[Autonome-Antifa]

And RaiseYourVoice forgets the existance of anarchist anti-fascists. We have a lot of them in holland. More even than socialists, I think. At least the very active anti-fascists.


Yes there are a lot of anarchist antifas in NL but it are also the most active ones. If more other groups will show there faces at antifa demos we can do much more and bigger things.

[Omi]

Yeah, that's what I meant. You simply put it better!:D


But one reason why that could be the case is because of the squatters movement, who also is mostly anarchist. (more than socialist, at least.) The squatters make up most of the radical anti-fascists I think.

[Autonome-Antifa]

Yeah, that's what I meant. You simply put it better!:D


But one reason why that could be the case is because of the squatters movement, who also is mostly anarchist. (more than socialist, at least.) The squatters make up most of the radical anti-fascists I think.


I agree but also there are more and more other thinking people between it. So i dont see a problem with it as long as we accept each other.

And i think there are some people to blame for it and that are two big organistations called International Socialists an DWARS. In de early days of AFA they would come to are demos and in that time we booked great succes with are demos. So i think they have to come more often to are demos so we have more people on the streets.

[An archist]

I agree but also there are more and more other thinking people between it. So i dont see a problem with it as long as we accept each other.

And i think there are some people to blame for it and that are two big organistations called International Socialists an DWARS. In de early days of AFA they would come to are demos and in that time we booked great succes with are demos. So i think they have to come more often to are demos so we have more people on the streets.
Have you tried sending mails to them to invite them openly?

[Omi]

I agree but also there are more and more other thinking people between it. So i dont see a problem with it as long as we accept each other.

And i think there are some people to blame for it and that are two big organistations called International Socialists an DWARS. In de early days of AFA they would come to are demos and in that time we booked great succes with are demos. So i think they have to come more often to are demos so we have more people on the streets.


Oh don't get me wrong, I consider myself anarchist as well, and I'm also active in the squatting movement:p.

And indeed, more support from other organisations would be very nice indeed. The more people in the streets the better. But one problem is a lot of the dutch leftists seem to dislike the IS for some reason. So much for solidarity...:rolleyes:


But let's just get back on topic, this totally isn't about an antifa forum anymore!

[POUM]

they were jews or/and member of the communist party.


Not really, at that time almost every communist party in europe was under Moscow rule. Stalin didn't want the communists at that time to instigate riots in Europe because of the Spanish Civil War and his agreements with Great Britain and France.

[jaffe]

It was against the BUF not against Brittain.

[Dr Mindbender]

in light of recent events in my local area, this forum idea has my FULL SUPPORT.

Fuck it, ANTIFA FOREVER!

[POUM]

It was against the BUF not against Brittain.

I never said that. What i meant was, CP was pretty inactive concerning the BUF march becuase Stalin didn't want the British authorities thinking that communist on the streets meant revolution, because USSR had pacts with France and GB

[jaffe]

The Labour, Communist and Trades Union movement responded with a campaign to "fight against fascism". The battle of Cable street showed that Mosely and his blackshirts that their brand of hate were not wanted. The battle is one of the most symbolic in working class history



http://www.britannia.com/travel/london/cockney/cable.html



The Battle of Cable Street or Cable Street Riot took place on Sunday October 4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_4), 1936 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936) in Cable Street (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_Street) in the East End of London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_End_of_London). It was a clash between the police (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Police_Service), overseeing a legal march by the British Union of Fascists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Union_of_Fascists) (led by Oswald Mosley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Mosley)) on one side, and anti-fascists including local Jewish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew), socialist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist), Irish and communist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism) groups on the other.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cable_Street

[POUM]

Yes, communist groups, but the Communist Party officialy was not at all vocal for it. In fact, on the day of the BUF march they wanted to do a separet march instead of stoping the rightwing one,just to avoid conflict and riots. So you see the point that on Cable street there were only jews and CP members is mistaken. There where all sorts of people from London, Jews,Labour,ILP,Communists,the Irish and various other antifascists.

[Gitfiddle Jim]

Are there any Antifa branches in northern England?

[jaffe]

Yes, communist groups, but the Communist Party officialy was not at all vocal for it. In fact, on the day of the BUF march they wanted to do a separet march instead of stoping the rightwing one,just to avoid conflict and riots. So you see the point that on Cable street there were only jews and CP members is mistaken. There where all sorts of people from London, Jews,Labour,ILP,Communists,the Irish and various other antifascists.

Yeah, but they weren't 'ordinary citizens' as someone pointed out in this thread. They were all well aware of the dangers that fascism posseses. That's because they were threatened by BUF for their political beliefs (commies, socialists, unionists) or for their ethnic roots (Jews, Irish).



Are there any Antifa branches in northern England?

http://www.antifa.org.uk/

contact them

[POUM]

So what's an ordinary citizen? A well-bred english Tori?

[jaffe]

off-topic;)

ordinary is a stupid word cause I think nobody is ordinary. But I hope you understand what I was saying.

or at least trying
sorry for my bad english.

[POUM]

i guess you meant threatened citizens came. but in case of fascism almost everybody is threteaned except the fascists themselves(this is debatable however) and the bourgeoisie which supports fascism when they need to surpress progressive movements, mostly leftist.

[jaffe]

yeah but the protesters were probably the most direct victims of the fascists.