A manifesto for the new generation?

[Rollo]

I was re-reading the communist manifesto out of extreme boredom earlier and I noticed it used a lot of 'out dated' words that I can see people who you may be trying to introduce to the idea of communism being confused by. Would it perhaps be a good idea to edit the current manifesto to use more modern terminologies and descriptions? I know I personally have never seen the term "Guild Master" outside of my year 8 history class.

[Led Zeppelin]

It's a good idea but depending on the ideology of the author it would probably be horribly biased.

Maybe there should be one version for every ideology, like a Maoist Communist Manifesto, a Hoxhaist Communist Manifesto, a Titoite Communist Manifesto etc.

:P

Anyway, I was skimming through Kautsky's works (out of curiosity...) and came across this one which seems interesting: To What Extent is the Communist Manifesto Obsolete? (http://www.marxists.org/archive/kautsky/1904/xx/manifesto.htm)

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 08:41 am
I was re-reading the communist manifesto out of extreme boredom earlier and I noticed it used a lot of 'out dated' words that I can see people who you may be trying to introduce to the idea of communism being confused by. Would it perhaps be a good idea to edit the current manifesto to use more modern terminologies and descriptions? I know I personally have never seen the term "Guild Master" outside of my year 8 history class.
first of all. where the hell ya been? you are my favorite revlefter!! and I do agree with this. I think many of us need to come together and make like.. "communist manifesto for dummies!"

[bootleg42]

I've been thinking this for the longest time.

It must be a manifesto that is simple to understand and at the same time it explains WELL what is to be done, that it does not say "we can achieve communism in 'x' years, etc" and stuff like that. It must be also be NON-DOGMATIC!!!!!!!

I'll repeat, NON-DOGMATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!

[manic expression]

The Communist Manifesto is among the most concise, persuasive, effective political writings of all time, and people want to re-write it?

[Marsella]

The Communist Manifesto is among the most concise, persuasive, effective political writings of all time, and people want to re-write it?

Yeah I agree. Its core message is still as potent but it is a bit outdated, especially in its references to the groups it supports.


A spectre is haunting Europe -- the spectre of communism. All the powers of old Europe have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: Pope and Tsar, Metternich and Guizot, French Radicals and German police-spies.

I doubt few have heard of Metternich or Guizot today. :P

And it is rather Eurocentric, although that is quite understandable in Marx's time.

And it is rather difficult to understand, especially if your English is poor and there are no translations. Would the average worker be able to understand it?

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 03:41 am
I know I personally have never seen the term "Guild Master" outside of my year 8 history class.
You must have never played an MMORPG.

[Raúl Duke]

Actually a recently re-read (2nd) the Manifesto and it became much much more understandable than the 1st time I read it.

I suppose when you been in this forum and reading RS2K, etc. for some time starts making sense.

[R_P_A_S]

Originally posted by manic [email protected] 28, 2007 12:33 pm
The Communist Manifesto is among the most concise, persuasive, effective political writings of all time, and people want to re-write it?
you are right! one shall not touch holly scripture! :P

[Tower of Bebel]

You can't have a problem with rewriting the manifesto. Some words are "outdated", some new events have occured, which means the manifesto can be rewritten but the original manifesto is far from obsolete.

The revleft amnifesto :) .

[Lenin II]

What words or phrases should be replaced? Are you talking about updating the language or merely replacing a few key phrases with ones more in connection with the times?

[kromando33]

If you get bored reading the manifesto then you must have a short attention span, seeing as the thing was made so educated people can understand it well.

[RaiseYourVoice]

The problem i see, is who would even bother reading that? we are not living in times where people jump at books to gain knowledge, not in times with a strong working class culture. we live in a times where most of the working class rather read some bullshit magazine like "bild" in germany, "the sun" in england etc. and watches crappy shows on tv. our main focus needs to be supporting workers to engage in real struggle more first.

Apart from that, there are many good new books around who explain capitalist development after marx. you just need to point those out to people

third and last, its kinda hard to rewrite the communist manifesto. it is written in the language and terms of the time it describes, how would you for example change "guild master" ? would you translate it to "boss"? that would distort the meaning of the term.
yes you probably heard the words in history class, thats because they describe history.

[kromando33]

The problem i see, is who would even bother reading that? we are not living in times where people jump at books to gain knowledge, not in times with a strong working class culture. we live in a times where most of the working class rather read some bullshit magazine like "bild" in germany, "the sun" in england etc. and watches crappy shows on tv. our main focus needs to be supporting workers to engage in real struggle more first.

Apart from that, there are many good new books around who explain capitalist development after marx. you just need to point those out to people

third and last, its kinda hard to rewrite the communist manifesto. it is written in the language and terms of the time it describes, how would you for example change "guild master" ? would you translate it to "boss"? that would distort the meaning of the term.
yes you probably heard the words in history class, thats because they describe history.
Wow, way to reject Marxism outright as 'out of date' when you probably haven't even read it, I read the manifesto last night and I can't think of anything more relevant to today, when he said 'guild master' he was referring to the feudal classes that were supplanted by the bourgeois, shows how much you were paying attention.

[Ismail]

I don't see how it's horribly outdated or anything either. I've read it recently, and it still seems relevant. The only real outdated thing is the language, and it isn't like it is written in extremely old English where words are like "SE CEORL WORULD, GEĀNLǢCAN!" and you only need to understand a few older words that aren't common anymore but are not unused. (hitherto and such)

[kromando33]

Actually I like that flowery 19th century English, the language and words of the manifesto is actually quite nice.

[Faux Real]

Wow, way to reject Marxism outright as 'out of date' when you probably haven't even read it, I read the manifesto last night and I can't think of anything more relevant to today, when he said 'guild master' he was referring to the feudal classes that were supplanted by the bourgeois, shows how much you were paying attention.
He never said it was out of date, he was pointing out that people today don't rely on books and most people are not avid readers outside of school for news and education. Do you believe todays average proletariat is looking up Karl Marx in their local library?

[Wanted Man]

Are we not attaching too much value to it? It surely has some relevance, even now, but it's not the first work that I would point someone to. It is simply an introductory pamphlet that Marx wrote for the conditions of 1848. Even as far as introductions go, I wouldn't tell a newbie to "read the manifesto". I'd sooner recommend anything that explains imperialism, globalisation and European neo-liberalism in simple terms, but uses a marxist analysis.

[Luís Henrique]

Bro, tHeir is a fuCkiN GhoSt fUcKin 'aUnTin FuckIn EwrOpe...

Luís Henrique

[Holden Caulfield]

If you get bored reading the manifesto then you must have a short attention span, seeing as the thing was made so educated people can understand it well.

thats a great point when the issues its covers are about the opressed (and often not as well read in general) proles,

if for any reason it was to be re-written it should be a 'for dummies' version that every literate person can easily read and understand,