Has the world revolution started ?

[peaccenicked]

The world banking system is collapsing (http://rense.com/general79/collapse.htm). What Greenspan is saying seems pretty ominous to the system as a whole. Defy that if you want but the damage that 'Reaganomics' does now look as though its finishing off the whole financial system as we know it.

Now again tell me if I am wrong here. Does not Lenin point to Marx in saying that one of the conditions of a revolutionary situation is that the ruling class cannot rule in the old way.

This is my starting point.

The other conditions for revolution are that the middle class starting to move over to the proletariat. Although this process could go futher large sections of the 'middle' class have been proletarianised since Marx's day, teachers in particular, much of the administrative and management strata have been unionised. It may be that the ideology of the massses remains bourgeoified, with the bread and circuses. Football and Soaps etc being the dominant crutches.

The primary condition for revolution being the misery of the mass of people leading to the absolute need for change.

There is a scene is 'Carry on up the Kyber' where the brits are being bombed by the natives, but still they sit around sipping tea with the stiff upper lips, as though nothing is going on. With war or genocide in the Middle east becoming ever more costly. How long can the system prop itself up, can we rely on the rising economies who are so dependent on the west for exports including capital? One wonders if we will just gaze at the TV till we cannot afford food anymore.

Yet I am only saing thing have just started, we aint seen nothing yet as the ball gets rolling. These are interesting times indeed

[Faux Real]

It certainly appears that the economic conditions for 'world' revolution to begin but the social consciousness among the majority of workers just isn't at that level, but it's certainly on the rise. I don't know how the US 2008 Presidential elections will affect the dynamics, but I doubt it will ease tensions between international capitalist forces and labor.

[Zurdito]

Not saying it invalidates your point entirely, but let's look at the homepage of your source:

http://www.rense.com/

UFO's, diesease outbreaks, and psychics? :huh:

I'd personally look at more serious analysts words on the banking system before basing my politics on an imminent collapse.

[Guest1]

We have entered a new era of wars, revolutions and counterrevolutions, that's certain. In some places, such as latin america, revolution is already on the agenda. Other places still have plenty of muck at the heads of the trade unions and labour parties to clear away before the class struggle can take a road filled with minor working class victories, let alone revolution.

But this economic crisis could be as serious as the crises of the early 20th century, or at the very least of the 70's, so that will have massive effects on the stability of capitalism and the reformist trade union and labour party leaderships.

And zurdito is right, that site is shit, even though we are likely facing a serious collapse.

Try this: Credit Crunch! (http://www.socialist.net/credit-crunch.htm)

[cyu]

The cynic in me says this is partly related to the American war with the Muslim world. In the past, leftists were enemy number one, so the American regime focused all its resources on fighting leftists, and they were fairly good at it too.

Now American resources are spread thin in Iraq and Afganistan, and looking towards Iran. The regime is less able to fight leftists or save itself from economic collapse.

I wouldn't underestimate them though. There are powerful financial institutions in private hands in the U.S. that won't go down easily. Even if they invested heavily in bad loans, I'm sure the Bush regime will devise some plan for the taxpayers to bail them out, so they can continue to fleece the American people in the future.

But the more enemies the juggernaut has, the more likely it will go down.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 20, 2007 10:36 am
And zurdito is right, that site is shit, even though we are likely facing a serious collapse.

Try this: Credit Crunch! (http://www.socialist.net/credit-crunch.htm)
Did your trotskyist party tell you that? ...They told me that to. And my dad, and my granded....

[peaccenicked]

Both articles could appear here (http://www.neravt.com/left/crisis.htm) and probably will. Mike Whitney is already on the list. Rense was only quick to publish it. I have very little dispute with some of the value of that website but it is not totally useless and deals with themes that the mainstream would not touch and such is both its strength and its weakness.
'shite' is too all embracing. IMO

The source in itself is unimportant and one has to watch the guru followers who only care about who says it and not what is said.
Even Lenin recognised that the truth was more important than Marxism (if given a choice). This is not to say Marxists have a monopoly on the truth. I have found 'truth' in very many obscure places. It is trap that sectarians can fall into, as they wait for the next word from the party leader.

The particular article "credit crunch" is pretty cautious in its predictions. When ficticious capital is been produced to a larger degrees than GDPs, we are deep trouble. I think the crisis in 1923 will be a baby one compared to the one coming down on us. Simply because there is only so far cheap labour can be squeezed and this is what is yet to be found out in Asian markets. The utter stupidity of capitalism in short term gain over long term consequence is game that cannot be played any more. Marx talked of the system only passing away after all its potentialities had been exhausted. Ultimately cheap labour has been pursued to its limit and the cost of that venture for the banks has reached proprtions that are now irredeemable.

As to consciousnss, it does not help that most of the left have avoided these issues or glossed over them. It is not a new party that is need primarily but an analysis of what is really going on that is not fearful of previous rash predictions made by Marxists. Consciousness of new found poverty is not mainstream news, but even this does not seem to be the focus of the left who seem to me more and more irrelevant to the crisis.


I believe we need organisations and poles of attraction to workers and others in struggle, looking at short term "solutions'' but pointing for the need for the Unions and the Labour parties to intervene in this global collapse which will bring about nothing but human misery. if we take the piecemeal approach of supporting every struggle in the hopes of gaining recruits, we ll be branded as cultist by the very people that in which we wish to nurture in the ways of solidarity.

The truth is starting to get very simple to explain. A Party must gain a reputation for a bold class analysis of the situation, fearless and welcome of criticism.
We need good analysis lomng before we need a new party.(sorry if I have went a bit over to the other thread but it is relevant). It seems to me the left does not move its position until some guru sees recruitment potential.

Recruitment should be based on theoretical struggle not creating clones.

[peaccenicked]

News update 20 Dec 2007

Britain's current account deficit hit a record high of 20 billion pounds in the third quarter, equivalent to 5.7 percent of GDP, official data showed on Thursday.
Reuterhttp://www.cnbc.com/id/22327651

[wes]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 06:07 pm
The cynic in me says this is partly related to the American war with the Muslim world. In the past, leftists were enemy number one, so the American regime focused all its resources on fighting leftists, and they were fairly good at it too.

Now American resources are spread thin in Iraq and Afganistan, and looking towards Iran. The regime is less able to fight leftists or save itself from economic collapse.

I wouldn't underestimate them though. There are powerful financial institutions in private hands in the U.S. that won't go down easily. Even if they invested heavily in bad loans, I'm sure the Bush regime will devise some plan for the taxpayers to bail them out, so they can continue to fleece the American people in the future.

But the more enemies the juggernaut has, the more likely it will go down.
there is no war aginst muslims or leftists the war is always aginst the working class.

[wes]

I would not worry about the oppurtunity of revolution being passed up. As the economic situation tightens and capital marches faster towards fascism and war the working class has responded with great resolve. It is in this coming struggle the working class vanguard will be created.

[peaccenicked]

The genocidal practices of the US and the UK along with other allies in the middle east are explained by the system of imperialism which has at its bedrock, financial capitalism, of course it is national in nature, but nations largely contain working classes. The left is largely outside of the equation, in that they have failed to lead the antiwar movement to any significant victories. That could be the power of the media, and infiltration by secret services or just same old sectarian politics pissing people off. Perhaps a mixture of all of these.

The main reason for the war was to create more room for finance capital to to have real resources at its hands to exploit all and sundry and create fear throughout the region.

In this they are failing. They are losing. Either Imperialism expands or it contracts and has to rely more on dead labour than living labour for its survival which is another root of ficticious capital.

[peaccenicked]

I would not worry about the oppurtunity of revolution being passed up. As the economic situation tightens and capital marches faster towards fascism and war the working class has responded with great resolve. It is in this coming struggle the working class vanguard will be created.


Thank you comrade for your optimism. I am sure that we shall win eventually but I am talking in the here and now. What I am saying here is that the recognised left is not up for the job for analysing the forthcoming crisis. There are some reasonably good articles but nothing that has understood the problems of today's society in any depth because we fear to make the mistakes Marx made in his over optimistic predictions. This malady has struck at the soul of Marxism and needs to be sorted.
We need to impress apon the public facts like this one. "In one case “just $10m of real, unlevered hedge fund money supports an $850m mortgage-backed deal.” Satyajit Das, expert in derivatives, told the Financial Times, “This means $1 of real money is being used to create $85 of mortgage lending—credit creation far beyond the wildest dreams of high-street bankers.”"
[url]http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/dec2007/rock-d21.shtml{/url]

Btw I dont support this website beyond using it for research purposes.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 07:54 am
The world banking system is collapsing (http://rense.com/general79/collapse.htm). What Greenspan is saying seems pretty ominous to the system as a whole. Defy that if you want but the damage that 'Reaganomics' does now look as though its finishing off the whole financial system as we know it.

Now again tell me if I am wrong here. Does not Lenin point to Marx in saying that one of the conditions of a revolutionary situation is that the ruling class cannot rule in the old way.

This is my starting point.

The other conditions for revolution are that the middle class starting to move over to the proletariat. Although this process could go futher large sections of the 'middle' class have been proletarianised since Marx's day, teachers in particular, much of the administrative and management strata have been unionised. It may be that the ideology of the massses remains bourgeoified, with the bread and circuses. Football and Soaps etc being the dominant crutches.

The primary condition for revolution being the misery of the mass of people leading to the absolute need for change.

There is a scene is 'Carry on up the Kyber' where the brits are being bombed by the natives, but still they sit around sipping tea with the stiff upper lips, as though nothing is going on. With war or genocide in the Middle east becoming ever more costly. How long can the system prop itself up, can we rely on the rising economies who are so dependent on the west for exports including capital? One wonders if we will just gaze at the TV till we cannot afford food anymore.

Yet I am only saing thing have just started, we aint seen nothing yet as the ball gets rolling. These are interesting times indeed
One is not surprised that the dollar will fall.

It is costing America $3.6 trillion to wage war on Afghanistan and Iraq.

Get set to watch $10 to $12 billion disappear.

Bush has decimated the American military.

Morgan Stanley lost $9.4 billion. China has bought a stake in the company.

America is in enormous debt.

Everything is going to hit the fan. It is just a matter of time.

Do not allow Bush and Cheney to attack Iran.

China has the money as America is broke.


marxist_god

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 09:48 am
Not saying it invalidates your point entirely, but let's look at the homepage of your source:

http://www.rense.com/

UFO's, diesease outbreaks, and psychics? :huh:

I'd personally look at more serious analysts words on the banking system before basing my politics on an imminent collapse.


The dollar will collapse http://www.dollarcollapse.com good page for uptodate news on the state of the US dollar

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 08:55 am
It certainly appears that the economic conditions for 'world' revolution to begin but the social consciousness among the majority of workers just isn't at that level, but it's certainly on the rise. I don't know how the US 2008 Presidential elections will affect the dynamics, but I doubt it will ease tensions between international capitalist forces and labor.
Capitalism is in its final stage as Marx and Engels predicted. The coming energy crisis will be the final nail in capitalism's coffin. The ride to socialism is going to be bumpy and rough. Buckle in, comrades!

marxist_god

[peaccenicked]

Northern Rock crisis deepens (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/dec2007/rock-d21.shtml). Perhaps this should be sticky.

[peaccenicked]

Just to let you know folks. More bad news for the pound (http://www.dailyfx.com/story/currency/gbp_fundamentals/British_Pound_Falls_to_Record_1198523281320.html?e ngine=rss&keyword=article)


The special relationship between the US and Britain has taken on a new significance. What will happen if the Chinese props up the US till it becomes too much of a burden but leaves Britain on its own. Look out for pro European propaganda in the tabloids.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 06:07 pm
The cynic in me says this is partly related to the American war with the Muslim world. In the past, leftists were enemy number one, so the American regime focused all its resources on fighting leftists, and they were fairly good at it too.

Now American resources are spread thin in Iraq and Afganistan, and looking towards Iran. The regime is less able to fight leftists or save itself from economic collapse.

I wouldn't underestimate them though. There are powerful financial institutions in private hands in the U.S. that won't go down easily. Even if they invested heavily in bad loans, I'm sure the Bush regime will devise some plan for the taxpayers to bail them out, so they can continue to fleece the American people in the future.

But the more enemies the juggernaut has, the more likely it will go down.

CYU: US-Imperialism is not fighting against the Muslim world. What i am trying to say is that US doesn't have a racist or religious war really, what US government wants is oil. And the reason US is anti-muslim is because muslims stand in their way of grabbing that oil. US-and zionist pals want to judize and zionize the muslim world, kill all the muslims in order to steal its oil, that's what USA wants oil and money, to steal, steal and steal.

USA is a "great nation" by stealing. US Imperialism is in the muslim world in order to steal its oil, that's what US-Imperialism wants, oil, gold, drugs and resources ($$$), that's what US-Government cares about. US government doesn't have any specific ideology, its ideology is stealing resources, like any professional thief, like Raffles

marxist_god

[peaccenicked]

more on the downturn, and I figure this article is too optimistic for capitalism.
The dwindingling dollar may be the next US national security threat (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22409728/)

[Psy]

The capitalists are facing the same crisis they were in 1929 and are looking for a way out of the crisis. That is the reason for the huge spike in US imperialism, 9/11 a modern Reistag fire, how 9/11 happened is not the point, the point is 9/11 like the Reistag fire is being used to justify rampant imperialism. Yet US imperialism is not enough to solve the crisis in the rate of profits for example this Christmas had very unimpressive growth.

Looking at history capitalist states might try to expand the war and we might soon see another world war as capitalist states try to salvage their economies with imperialism and still growing economies like China defending their economies also with imperialism.

[Noah]

One can also see the weakness of the dollar (and hence the weakness of the global economy) in the increasing price of gold.

1) Yes energy prices are rising
2) Yes geopolitical factors are involved

It doesn't add up, prices are rising much too quickly and prices have been rising for almost a decade now.

But those people with billions of dollars are shitting it, losing faith in the dollar and buying gold instead which is a bad sign for the global economy.

I can't predict whether a recession will result in some sort of revolution, personally I'd say there wasn't enough class conciousness in England but it is increasing imo...Furthermore, class conciousness increases in desperate times when the lower classes are exposed to their crappy positions...Who knows!

www.thebulliondesk.com is a good place to check precious metal prices.

[RedAnarchist]

So, what do people predict will happen over the next few months, years and decades?

[peaccenicked]

I think the main enemies of class consciousness are ignorance and fear. The ability of the ruling classes to rule in the old way becomes reduced as the crisis develops.
The weapon of fear becomes less powerful as the ruling classes look more vulnerable than all powerful.
The crisis will gradualy hit everyone, this will make the system more transparent.

The present subjective crisis of the working class will become increasing polarised towards an 'us versus them' environment. Opportunities will arise for the left to help bring the masses forward.

These conditions are hard to time, and initially will be evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Insurrection is an art. We need our side to develop and train our people in the art of politics.

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

its revolution time comrades! *shoots the nearest copper*

[Holden Caulfield]

i think that the cause of revolution could have been drastically helped if Nicolas Sarkozy hadn't won the french elections, as at that time the nation was becoming more polarised. It seemed apparent that demonstrations would occur in the support bases of the losers of the election, Segolene Royal's supports protestest could be manipulated by the nationalists as trouble amongst 'immigrant groups' to try to create boundaries amongst his oppositions. If Sarkozy had lost if his supporters (the wealthy, the nationalist, the ignorant) had protested, it could have pushed the people into the arms of the left and give French, and through osmosis, european left wing politics the kick up the arse it needs to get it away from the degeneration it finds itself in, rotting away in the centre ground

in France protests can quickly turn into
*shoot the nearest copper*

which highlights it being one of the places in Western Europe that could under-go a 'revolution' realistically

[peaccenicked]

There is realism and realism. The realism of now says ''nothing really changes''.
Not only is the revolution not noticed but denied, but it is clear to most analysts is that the US is falling into decline and that will impact the whole world.

How revolutionaries conduct themselves is important for if we were all to go to sleep and be 'realistic' eternally we would never have a revolution. What I have said is that things are going against the interests of finance capital.

This will give us opportunities to defend workers interests, and point to the fucked up systems inability to patch itself up as it will attempt time and time again.

Revolution is not on the cards today or tomorrow, it is hard to detect the rate of decline of capitalism. The good news is that is in decline. We need to notice that things are going badly for capitalism.

The situation is France is fickle, I believe the neo cons will suffer a reverse in fortunes as the rest of the world gradually ditches the dollar.

As for shooting coppers - That is not on the agenda. History has taught us to use peaceful means and the democratic processes left to us. Revolutions tend to attract disillusioned state officials we will have to be careful of them.

It is also possible that there is deeper periods of reaction and inactivity ahead.
The subjective factor lags objective conditions. It is not a matter of if but when capitalism exhausts its potential.

We are left as detectives for the revolution, ever deepening our understanding of the new era we are in.

[Holden Caulfield]

i was not instigating 'shooting coppers' i was just trying to show that in France as opposed to say England there is so much feeling that protests can spill over and that under proper and politically sound leadership the people of France could affect revolutionary changes, either through massive strike actions, or other non violent actions

i was using France as an example as due to the polarized nature of politics there, as opposed to England where main political parties are trapped on a small piece of centre ground,

[peaccenicked]

I apologize for my error, of implying blanqist techniques to you. France is indeed different from the bipartisan Anglo-american model. But not really talking about what is but what is developing. It is hard to believe that the deeply conservative milleu can move in anyway. However I maintain that if the system cant maintain the people, the people will not maintain the system...over a period of time. I believe that these present times are unprecedented with ongoing foreclosures on millions of homes in the air, and inflation ready to take off, with the dollar receding at an almighty pace.
Bourgeois ideologies have been maintained by the material conditions of relative comfort. A new militancy is pregnant.

[Zurdito]

Those attacks on the police in France weren't random attacks, the violent riot police were sent in to those kids suburbs to crush protests about the deaths of two young kids. of course they had a right to chase those thugs away from their protest.

[Psy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 07:32 pm
I apologize for my error, of implying blanqist techniques to you. France is indeed different from the bipartisan Anglo-american model. But not really talking about what is but what is developing. It is hard to believe that the deeply conservative milleu can move in anyway. However I maintain that if the system cant maintain the people, the people will not maintain the system...over a period of time. I believe that these present times are unprecedented with ongoing foreclosures on millions of homes in the air, and inflation ready to take off, with the dollar receding at an almighty pace.
Bourgeois ideologies have been maintained by the material conditions of relative comfort. A new militancy is pregnant.
It has precedent, the great depression. The capitalist class then used fascism to get workers back in line (before Hitler turned west the major capitalist powers backed Hitler). The US already is following in Nazi Germany's footsteps, 9/11 is being used like the Reistag fire as even before the economic crisis think tanks saw democracy as problem to the US empire that should be done away, they looked at Pinochet's Chile both as a economic model and one that also solves their problems of dissent.

If the capitalist class can't maintain its power through the capitalist system it will turn to the army crush dissent and allow for greater exploitation of the working class.

[Holden Caulfield]

i agree with psy so far as to say that the US will eventually have to resort to the power of its army to crush dissent,

two major steps towards changes could be the action in Cuba after the death of Fidel, and the progression of socialism in Latina america, mainly Mexico, what would the empire think about a socilist nation LITERALLY on their door step?

also the internet is a powerful tool to help proletarian culture catch up with our theory and to act in the way the propagnda efforts did during the spanish civil war, baghdad = gurnica? guantanamo = many spanish stadiums

[Vanguard1917]

No, the world revolution has not started - not by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, we're living in a period in which there is an almost unprecedented lack of resistance to the capitalist system. The working class has largely retreated from political life and it is yet to recover from the heavy defeats it suffered in the 1980s.

[Holden Caulfield]

hence the term EVENTUALLY,

[Psy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 08:12 pm
also the internet is a powerful tool to help proletarian culture catch up with our theory and to act in the way the propagnda efforts did during the spanish civil war, baghdad = gurnica? guantanamo = many spanish stadiums
Actually Fallujah=Gurnica as the US used white phosphorus (modern napalm) against the general population of Fallujah to punish them for aiding the insurgents.

[peaccenicked]

What is unprecedented is that the US acheived to a great degree what Germany did not: a new wold order. I tend to believe that the era of black ops is coming to an end, even in the midst of what is happening in Pakistan. That event merely stabilized US/Pakistan relations and was not a part of US expansionism as such, in that Pakistan has already puppet regime in place there.
Within this context we are seeing the financial system collapse. What I am saying is that the ruling class can't rule in the old way anymore as the amount of foreclosures (http://rense.com/general79/scrooge.htm) rise etc.

Working class resistance is not a fixed entitity. The more you punch something the more likely it will respond and eventually reach the right target. There are signs of militancy in South America but that is not the main point, that is..The conditions for new working class militancy is being laid.

To cling on to present passivity is a mistake, it merely breeds passivity. If we cant take an advantage of a capitalist downturn by fighting against the coming deprivations on our class then we may as well pack it in. Things are becoming starker but the blind are leading the blind.

This blindness cant be maintained, one cant live in an ideological bubble based on relative comfort and have one's living conditions attacked at the same time.

At the same time we cant live as though nothing is happening by pandering to the most reactionary elements of the working class.

[Holden Caulfield]

just as a question a tad off the subject can somebody tell me facts of the events at Baghdad airport was that a case of WP being used?

[peaccenicked]

Yes! Folks more bad news (http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2008/01/01/pro01.ART_ART_01-01-08_A17_CN8TG1J.html?sid=101) for capitalism. A bigger squeeze on the working class, more reason to look towards socialism

[Holden Caulfield]

good another blow to the empire, like all empires this one has over streched itself,

[peaccenicked]

Recession (http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=19824&cid=4&cname=Business+Today) in the US now.

[Holden Caulfield]

for a country in recession i find it shocking that the presiential candidates are openly spending millions to buy votes in every state,

and the masses don't seem to care about this, i know it is just a drop in the ocean but a show of realisation would seem fitting,

fuck them anyhoo, i hope they all kill each other, the '60' famalies of america will have thier time to fall, anybody who raised themselves about liberty will be brought back down by her

[peaccenicked]

Article on foreclosures and unemployment (http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_25804.shtml). It states the bare truth.

[Bright Banana Beard]

Most people do not know the real meaning of communism and anarchism, so we can send them package to learn more about it and how to cotriubute it. We have to stop America first and then spread the revolution around the world, we all know America is great on terrorizing us but we will never be smashed as capitalist will never be smashed. Is there a simple solution to start the revolution? No. Education is what we can do now.

[Dimentio]

Hope not.

No progressive force is in existence today which is strong enough to take the lead. The only result will be some decades of imperialist warfare.

[peaccenicked]

People assume that revolutions are made by revolutionaries, but that can only be done in a revolutionary situation.
What I am saying is that we have moved out of a pre-revolutionary situation.
The ruling class can no longer rule in the old way. They have to manage an unprecedented economic crisis which has no saving graces like a technological revolution that avenue seems to have exhausted itself somewhat. As to war the imperialists are being defeated in Afghanistan and Iraq. The Iran threat has little or no support in the Gulf region. The squeeze on the working class is likely and inevitably will lead to a new political resistance. At present the need for such resistance is only being articulated with however with an increasing number of setbacks for the imperialists and strikes in the imperialist countries becoming ever more needful.
It has only began. Progressive forces can only develop on top of this. Even if it means the old guard of the left have to crumble. The times they are a changing.

[Holden Caulfield]

(nice bob dylan referance)

'I am not a liberator, liberators don't exsist, the people liberate themselves' -ernesto guevara

this is why his actions in Bolivia failed, and the reason why AT THIS TIME in the developed nations education is the key step for preparing revolution

[peaccenicked]

This is Lenin at his best, from "Where to begin (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/may/04.htm)"
Our movement suffers in the first place, ideologically, as well as in practical and organisational respects, from its state of fragmentation, from the almost complete immersion of the overwhelming majority of Social-Democrats in local work, which narrows their outlook, the scope of their activities, and their skill in the maintenance of secrecy and their preparedness. It is precisely in this state of fragmentation that one must look for the deepest roots of the instability and the waverings noted above. The first step towards eliminating this short-coming, towards transforming divers local movements into a single, All-Russian movement, must be the founding of an All-Russian newspaper. Lastly, what we need is definitely a political newspaper. Without a political organ, a political movement deserving that name is inconceivable in the Europe of today. Without such a newspaper we cannot possibly fulfill our task—that of concentrating all the elements of political discontent and protest, of vitalising thereby the revolutionary movement of the proletariat. We have taken the first step, we have aroused in the working class a passion for “economic”, factory exposures; we must now take the next step, that of arousing in every section of the population that is at all politically conscious a passion for political exposure. We must not be discouraged by the fact that the voice of political exposure is today so feeble, timid, and infrequent. This is not because of a wholesale submission to police despotism, but because those who are able and ready to make exposures have no tribune from which to speak, no eager and encouraging audience, they do not see anywhere among the people that force to which it would be worth while directing their complaint against the “omnipotent” Russian Government. But today all this is rapidly changing. There is such a force—it is the revolutionary proletariat, which has demonstrated its readiness, not only to listen to and support the summons to political struggle, but boldly to engage in battle. We are now in a position to provide a tribune for the nationwide exposure of the tsarist government, and it is our duty to do this. That tribune must be a Social-Democratic newspaper"


It is different times, now we talk of alternative media but on the whole it has the same short-comings that Lenin speaks about here. Only the conditions are worse in terms of public audience. We need a pole of attraction that is capable of presenting educational material that is rooted in the history of our movement and capable of presenting rapidly moving events without fear of a mainstream backlash or any worship of the celebrity culture.
The present void can only be filled the more people are aware of it and escape the routinism that fails on direct contact with the pending crisis of capitalism.

[peaccenicked]

More on the recession (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-stocks-slammed-dow-decline/story.aspx?guid=%7B9384C3E2%2D4648%2D4F0A%2D96D0%2 D16CA32881444%7D)

[peaccenicked]

Consumer confidence (http://www.diamonds.net/news/NewsItem.aspx?ArticleID=20265)at an all time low.

[peaccenicked]

The real question is what will we do (http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2008/3502debt_crisis.html)?

[crimsonzephyr]

I seems too early for a revolution. There are not enough people on our side. Almost every person i talk to is so apathetic about politics and the world around us. They all seem satisfied with their god damn MTV. I do believe awareness is on the rise and the rev will start sometime within the next five to ten year, mainly because of all the shit going on in th UK now. I heard cameras aren't legal in public!

[peaccenicked]

I seems too early for a revolution. There are not enough people on our side. Almost every person i talk to is so apathetic about politics and the world around us. They all seem satisfied with their god damn MTV. I do believe awareness is on the rise and the rev will start sometime within the next five to ten year, mainly because of all the shit going on in th UK now. I heard cameras aren't legal in public!


It is too early for the final victory but what I have been saying is that what has started is the conditions for revolution. Namely the ruling class not being able to rule in the old way. The real question is how much punishment can we take as the crisis develops. Presently ideology and relative comfort have primary status in the minds of working class people but the squeeze is on, this historically politicizes the masses. The emperor clothes are laid bare.

Some people will drag their feet and cling to the bubble that protects them from thinking but those who feel the cutting edge of the squeeze will be open to other ideas. It is our task to show an alternative.

[peaccenicked]

US hegemony (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JA12Ak02.html)in the Middle east is over according to this article. The ruling class are show more signs that they cannot live the old way.

[peaccenicked]

http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_25875.shtml

The system is going into free fall. If people don't panic now there' ll perhaps never panic.

[cyu]

Markets around the world marked big losses today (4% to 7%). No news from the US because of the MLK holiday, but there may be a big sell-off tomorrow in the US as well. Although 4% or 7% is fairly small, it still makes me smile to see wealthy investors quaking in their boots - oh no, they might have a bad year in 2008 and not live as lavishly off the labor of all those people doing the real work! It's time to call in their political favors and have the tax-payers bail them out!

Just remember, no matter how low the stock market or currency falls, that's not what really matters. Capitalists want you to believe your economic well-being depends on keeping them wealthy, but in truth, what keeps an economy running are the employees, the raw materials, and the equipment... nothing a rich investor can take with him when he flees for a more capitalist-friendly nation.

[YSR]

Cyu is partially correct.

These crises of the markets are the working-out of internal contradictions of capital. They are not revolutionary moments. As capital expands and grows, some countries are favored and some lose favor. At this time, it looks as though China and the EU are gaining power and the United States is losing it.

These crises do not herald the end of anything or even the creation of a "revolutionary situation". Even if they did indicate the end of late-capitalism in the West, the revolutionary movement is nowhere near strong enough to succeed it. We would be strung up by the counter-revolutionaries as soon as state power were to fail. Unfortunately, we still live in the shadow of the state and would be dead without it. That is why waiting for financial crises in order to "make revolution" is a losing strategy. The working class must create the conditions for revolution ourselves, by autonomous organizing and movement-building.

However, where Cyu is wrong is the assertion that capital in its traditional form is the only thing that has value. The condition of post-modernity in the West has been brought about by the transformation of capital into finance-capital. Finance and money as a commodity are not valueless. Look at what happened in Argentina in 2003 after the (finance) capital flight: the working class suffered and the capitalists remained more or less the same. Finance-capital is a weapon being employed against the working class in the United States right now, under the auspices of the subprime mortgage crisis.

That's not to argue that finance-capital can't by undermined, as it certainly can. But simply saying that the only things that have value in capitalism are "employees, the raw materials, and the equipment" misses the most important lesson of Marx: commodity fetishism.

[cyu]

Sorry, finance and money are valueless - at least in terms in intrinsic wealth - the fact that other people don't see them as valueless is what gives them "social value". In the case of capital flight, here's an article I wrote about it years ago

http://www.infoshop.org/rants/yu1.html
Capital Flight - What to do

You have just overthrown the government, your far left party has just won a landslide election, or your vast coalition of civic, labor, and religious institutions have simply decided to come together and ignore the existing government. Capitalists are fleeing your country in their private jets. Investors have pulled out all their money. Foreign banks run by capitalists suddenly decide they are no longer willing to make any loans to your "rogue" nation. The former dictator has packed up all his suitcases full of gold, jewels, and cash from your national treasury, and is now nowhere to be found.

Now what?

Economic collapse? Mass unemployment? Depression and starvation? No, of course not.

Wealth is not to be found in currency, in the so-called "precious" metals, in paintings by long-dead painters. None of those are needed to survive. Wealth is found in food, in warmth, in health care, and in the things necessary to produce them. All the land is still yours. All the labor is still yours. Even factory equipment remains, despite the flight of "capital" - that is, the loss of things that represent wealth, but are not wealth themselves. In fact, very little has been lost and virtually all of the productive capacity of your nation remains. All that has changed is the accounting.

Your nation may still have in its treasury the remnants of the capitalist financial structure - gold, other precious metals, paper money from nations around the world. Spend it - as soon as possible. Buy commodities - those things you need to survive and buy any equipment you need to produce the goods you need. That is the real wealth to people who actually have to do the work.

What happens in the rest of the world as the people of your nation are suddenly flooding it with various currencies and "precious" metals, while snapping up real goods? The supply of those currencies and "precious" metals go up, while the supply of real goods go down. These goods become more and more expensive, while "money" becomes more and more worthless. Thus, there is all the more reason to exchange your money as soon as possible for real goods you will need.

When all the old money has been spent, you are free to live, work, and produce the things you need. Self-reliance is the only secure form of wealth. Trade with other nations can still be conducted, but do not hold on to their money - money is mere promise of future wealth, promises that can be broken whether from malice or from inability to fulfill them. Exchange any money for real wealth as soon as you can.

Money within your own economy should be based on real wealth. When farmers produce a bushel of grain, let them issue a paper note representing that bushel of grain. Since that paper note can be redeemed for precisely that amount of grain, there is no inflation between the notes and the grain. These paper notes can be collected by larger farmer organizations that then reissue new notes based on a diversified index of what they produce. While the value of money issued in this way may fluctuate with respect to goods not on the index, it will not change with respect to the goods that back these paper notes. This is the first step to currency stability.

However, be warned that these notes are still only as good as the institutions that issue them. Either you trust that they can always be redeemed, or you redeem them as soon as it is convenient. This is especially true of money you receive from other nations that is supposedly backed in the same way. Distance makes people bolder and less hesitant to break promises. Ultimately, however, convenience would probably mean you will place your trust in an organization of like minded people who will help each other ensure that what you have is really what you have - although you should make sure there are alternatives should you decide to change your mind.

People can probably be trusted when times are easy and when prosperity reigns, but when times are tough, promises are much easier to break than the laws of survival. This is what makes self-reliance of an economy important. This is why local industry and agriculture should be protected. Productively ability is the real source of wealth of the nation.
However, natural disasters also occur. While the world as a whole may be fairly stable, the area around you is much more prone to random fluctuations of climate and geology. Thus self-reliance is not the entirety of a secure economy, but merely the supporting structure. The secondary source of security is prosperity in other geographical locations. The more prosperous others are, the more likely they will come to your aid in times of trouble. The more they have to thank you for their prosperity, the more likely they will come to your aid. Again, merely being creditors to their debt is not enough. Nations are sovereign, whether anarchist or authoritarian. They can break their promises - they can ignore any legalistic claims to debt. It is the general goodwill that can be fostered between two nations or people that will be your salvation in case your own self-reliance fails.

In the end, captial flight isn't really capital flight. Real capital - the people, natural resources, and equipment needed to produce real goods - cannot be packed up in a bag when the capitalist skips town. They will require a lot of labor if they truly want to escape with real capital. What remains when the capitalists are gone are merely the people who are doing the work, and the means to do it.