Genocidal Removalence

[chameleoncomplex]

Hello, I am new....

Anyway,

been thinking about capitalist propaganda....'our' version of events tells us Stalin killed the most people (10-20 million supposedly) & then Hitler (6-10 million)...but now they have had a recount & suddenly they reckon Mao has killed the most (20-30 million?).

Was wondering if anyone had ever worked out a total for the number of deaths attributed to consecutive American Presidents over the last few decades (since WWII).

We could start with the 1 million deaths in Iraq & work our way back....

...surely they would rival Stalin's puported stats.

Would be interested in what people would think of as being viable figures to put forward (eg deaths due to domestic gun ownership? deaths due to pedalling of lethal products (tobacco)?)

[spartan]

Bush SR and Clinton will have a few deaths on their hands with the gulf war (And the continued sanctions against Iraq after the war that resulted in up to 500,000 deaths), Somalia and the situation in Yugoslavia.

Also Reagens support of anti-Communist forces in Latin America, corrupt Dictatorships and his siding with both sides in the Iran-Iraq war will probably give him more than a million deaths to his name.

Of course we can then go back to all the Preseidents who have held office during the Korean and Vietnam wars and also the whole Israel-Palestine issue where collectively millions of people have died.

Collectively you are looking at a Conservative estimate of way over 10 million people dead because of the actions of US Presidents and their Capitalist Imperialism from the end of WW2 and to our current times.

[Everyday Anarchy]

The accumulated death tolls of consecutive American presidents hardly matter when compared the outstanding death toll of one man. Apply the same to (for example) Stalin and count the death toll of an equal amount of Soviet leaders and certainly they will overshadow those of the Americans.


We should not make a habit of being apologists of events like those of Stalin and other's purges and genocides.

[Dros]

Originally posted by Everyday [email protected] 19, 2007 11:24 pm
The accumulated death tolls of consecutive American presidents hardly matter when compared the outstanding death toll of one man.
Don't be absurd. I think that some of our presidents could rival Stalin's alleged tally of "murders".

Take the Vietnam War casualties to the Vietcong for example. We've killed a shit ton of people comrade.

[bootleg42]

Don't forget what happened after with East Timor, Cambodia, Death squads in Guatemala, El Salvador and Nicaragua, U.S. involvement in the paramilitaries in Colombia, Iraq today, etc.

[Lenin II]

About 120-150,000 Japanese farmers from the West Coast were rounded up and put into internments camps by Roosevelt. There were doubtlessly some deaths from that.

Of course, that's nothing compared to the deaths from the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

In addition to the war on terrorism, there's also the Guantanomo Bay concentration camp and the suicides that have taken place.

There's JFK's Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba and the Cuban embargo, which JFK started and Clinton greatly expanded.

Laos was given the most intense bombardment ever between 1964-1975, when USA dropped six to seven million bombs, with one million of these being cluster bombs.

Don't forget Kosovo and Serbia, of course. And the bombing of Sudan by Clinton.

[chameleoncomplex]

Originally posted by Everyday [email protected] 19, 2007 11:24 pm
The accumulated death tolls of consecutive American presidents hardly matter when compared the outstanding death toll of one man. Apply the same to (for example) Stalin and count the death toll of an equal amount of Soviet leaders and certainly they will overshadow those of the Americans.


We should not make a habit of being apologists of events like those of Stalin and other's purges and genocides.
I hear what you are saying...I definitely don't want to attempt to justify Stalin's death toll.

I think the point I was making was that; since America makes some pretence at democracy & effectively allows the populace to vote for which pro-business capitalist elitist they want to preside over the crypto-dictatorship for a few years...the death count for subsequent imperialist atrocities isn't tallied up & subsumed under the name of one person as would be if an American leader held the post for decades.

This - to a certain extent - allows America to maintain plausible deniability over it's accumulative atrocities...they can always blame a particular regime rather than admit that the deaths were all part of the same imperial grand strategy.

I don't want to end up apologising for America & Capitalism either.

[chameleoncomplex]

Yes....

also....

the million killed in the US funded Iran/Iraq war,

millions killed as a direct consequence of tyranny in ANY brutal dictatorship America props up & funds,

millions killed in third world countries due to enforced poverty conditions maintained by debt enslavement from the IMF & the 'World' bank,

[Dros]

Originally posted by Lenin [email protected] 20, 2007 03:59 am
About 120-150,000 Japanese farmers from the West Coast were rounded up and put into internments camps by Roosevelt. There were doubtlessly some deaths from that.
A lot of people got lung disease from the dust and hespestos in the camps and died latter.

You make a lot of other really good points. There was also the US orchestrated massacre of Indonesians under Suharto etc...

We definitely did some bad stuff.

[Ismail]

Any attempts to label Stalin as a «murderer», «tyrannical» etc are idiotic. Usually these «alleged» death tolls are taken from actual deaths in the Soviet Union, most of which (if not natural) where not caused by Stalin but either by:
A. Lack of food (note Kulak burning of wheat and such in Ukraine causing famine, Gulag prisoners not given enough food due to priority going towards actual citizens, etc)
B. War
C. Actual counter-revolutionaries (Fascist sympathizers, etc) which I'm willing to bet is the smallest in number

And of course you can always inflate things.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2007 04:31 pm
Any attempts to label Stalin as a «murderer», «tyrannical» etc are idiotic. Usually these «alleged» death tolls are taken from actual deaths in the Soviet Union, most of which (if not natural) where not caused by Stalin but either by:
A. Lack of food (note Kulak burning of wheat and such in Ukraine causing famine, Gulag prisoners not given enough food due to priority going towards actual citizens, etc)
B. War
C. Actual counter-revolutionaries (Fascist sympathizers, etc) which I'm willing to bet is the smallest in number

And of course you can always inflate things.
Very true. I&#39;m far from a Stalin apologist, but those who would continue to push the death toll for Stalin need to be stopped. I once heard from a teacher that Stalin was responsible for 100 million deaths. Seriously, give me a break. <_<