True communism in China

[Red Puppy]

Title says it all.

[Dros]

What do you mean exactly?

No one ever said China achieved Communism.

But I think I understand your question. The answer is both. Mao made great advances in socialism and in communist theory. China under Mao had great success in industrialization, collectivization of agriculture, increases in food production, liberation of women, radacal breaks with outmoded ways of thinking, and many other great advances. Stalin tried to do the same. While Stalin did not always succeed in doing so (to some extent), his failures need to be interpreted in a dialectical materialist manner. This analysis shows that Stalin's "failures" stem from two simple facts: 1.) Stalin lead a nation that was constantly threatened by reactionary forces from within (even within the CPSU) and from without (Hitler, USA, UK, etc.) and 2.) Stalin's methodology was fundementally flawed. He percieved himself as the guardian of a revolution that should be protected from the numerous forces seeking to overthrow it (true). This caused him to believe that he must destroy anyone who opposed the revolution, his view of the revolution, or his line. These two factors account for Stalin's failure. In order to learn from the experience of the Soviet Union and the PRC, we need to understand what these leaders did right (and they both did right) and what there ideological, methodological, and political mistakes were so that we may not fall into these pitfalls in the future.

[Sam_b]

I'm tired, so i'll try and be brief.

1. China is simply a capitalist country with a hardline Stalinist leadership. I don't see worker's control anyway, but I see mass exploitation of the workers.

2. Communism can never happen in one country. Even so, China is nowhere near.

3. Don't even get me started on Mao's murdering of his own people. Oh how very Stalinist!

[Red Puppy]

Answered me perfectly. Thanks.

[Red Scare]

Well first off, Maoist theory is seriously flawed in general, making it impossible for Communism to take its form. As the same with Stalinism, Maoism uses centralized bureaucracy to control the workers, and therefore Communism is never achieved. In short.

[Random Precision]

You should check out this thread (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=73251) on Maoist theory and whatnot.

Although I'm still awaiting a reply from SovietPants on my last post, but I guess he's justified since I bloody well took my time. :) So that makes it a work in progress.

[redcannon]

well, we can look at it this way. Two of the largest problems in China today are 1) worker exploitation (i.e. 150 million child labourers and countless sweatshops. 2) Class division (i.e. there are some super rich chinese businessmen right now profiting off of reason "1".

how can a communist country have worker exploitation and class division?
well, it can't. China is no more communist than the United States is. Anyone who says otherwise needs to turn off Fox News.

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 04:26 am
how can a communist country have worker exploitation and class division?

How can communism have a country????

[Ismail]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 08:13 pm
I'm tired, so i'll try and be brief.

1. China is simply a capitalist country with a hardline Stalinist leadership. I don't see worker's control anyway, but I see mass exploitation of the workers.Explain how the leadership is in any way «Stalinist». Considering Mao's condemnation of Stalin's views (and of course the completely revisionist modern PRC government having abandoned Mao to begin with) it should be apparent that the leadership is revisionist, not «Stalinist». Also, how the fuck is it hardline? Enver Hoxha was hardline, Stalin was hardline, fucking Kim Jong Il is more hardline than the PRC leadership. The only less hardline states identified as Socialist today are Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos.


2. Communism can never happen in one country.Correct, all the «Stalinists» and Maoists in the world will agree with you on that. So long as the bourgeois and the revisionists still have states of their own, the struggle must continue.


3. Don't even get me started on Mao's murdering of his own people. Oh how very Stalinist!«Today on the history channel we will now talk about how Mao was evil and only second to Stalin in pure, repressive Communist evil.»

Mao may of not been a Marxist-Leninist, but saying that he killed his own people is idiotic. It was his decentralized party which was not doing enough to act as an actual vanguard of the working class that caused a majority of the deaths non-economics related.