Chinese Troubles

[MT5678]

Hello.

So we've all heard the neoliberal myths about how China is all great and growing and stuff. What i'm looking for is counter-evidence that details inequality rates, poverty, and that stuff, and how it has grown. Evidence of enivormental trouble is also good, but I would appreciate the first one more. Please post links if possible.

Thank you.

[MT5678]

:(

You guys are mean. 30 views and no posts?

Just kidding. I'll find some myself. But I thought that there would be plenty of people bringing up evidence of the fact that China is an industrializing state, with all the associated troubles and human rights problems.

[which doctor]

Search through the boards and you will find that quite a lot has been posted on this topic.

[Ismail]

Assuming your line of argument is «China under capitalism is doing worse than under [note: I'm a Hoxhaist, not a big fan of Mao] pseudo-Socialism» then I'd like to state three main reasons why Socialism under Mao was so shitty:

1. Lack of trade (Mostly fixed in the 70's when the «Three Worlds Theory» was fully embraced and China saw the USSR as worse than the US, trade issue solved by 90's thanks to Deng Xiaoping and the revisionist leadership but also see #3)
2. Decentralization of the party (The party seemed to stress being «open» and allowing all sorts of types to not only criticize Socialism but worse yet form «new ideas» about how a vanguard party should be, with pro-student factions replacing pro-proletariat factions, etc which in turn made the cultural revolution go so horribly as it did with proletarian unity completely broken as conflicting ideas took the form of guns and bombs)
3. Problems that usually arise due to capitalists and socialist economic policies «co-existing» together. Since free trade is obviously about expanding markets and gaining as much income as possible, this obviously brought up the final question that ended the status of the vanguard party: «Do we go with capitalism or socialism?» in which the answer (capitalism) has led to continuous reforms in the direction of the market rather than the direction of the proletariat.

Otherwise, China is fairly democratic and the only real human rights abuses it commits I can only see being against genuine Communists. (like the Tiananmen Square protests, in which people sang «The Internationale»)

Now, since China is moving rapidly towards capitalism, capitalist nations are obviously embracing it. This is why it is able to succeed so much at growth.

[Marsella]

Otherwise, China is fairly democratic and the only real human rights abuses it commits I can only see being against genuine Communists. (like the Tiananmen Square protests, in which people sang «The Internationale»)

Without over-stating anything, you're a fucking idiot and a complete pile of shit if you think that China is 'fairly democratic' and that the only human rights abuses are aimed at 'genuine communists.' :angry:

That has to be one of the most arrogant comments I have witnessed on this site, and coming from someone who has probably never been to China or at least thought critically about it, I will treat it with the utter contempt it deserves.

I sincerely hope you were being sarcastic, made a poor joke or that I have seriously misunderstood you.


Now, since China is moving rapidly towards capitalism, capitalist nations are obviously embracing it. This is why it is able to succeed so much at growth.

No, China is not moving towards capitalism, it is capitalist. It has a stock-market for fuck's sake and openly legalized private property a few years ago, even though that institution has existed for decades longer.

Whether you are debating the modernization of China, that is another thing.

[Ismail]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 03:12 am
Without over-stating anything, you're a fucking idiot and a complete pile of shit if you think that China is 'fairly democratic' and that the only human rights abuses are aimed at 'genuine communists.'I have an Australian friend that basically lives in China. He has continuously called it more democratic than the United States. I'm fairly sure it has public elections for local positions and such with multiple candidates (similar to Cuba), so yes, it is fairly democratic. Is it a proletarian democracy? No, not even close. But it still qualifies as a bourgeois one. As for human rights, I also include smashing non-Communist workers movements and such but refuse to recognize things like Tibet, Falun Gong, etc as abuses.


That has to be one of the most arrogant comments I have witnessed on this site, and coming from someone who has probably never been to China or at least thought critically about it, I will treat it with the utter contempt it deserves.I've thought critically about China, it's a revisionist (and social-imperialist) state that went from pseudo-Socialism to begin with. How the fuck is that not critical? I am in agreement with Enver Hoxha on China. (the same man who dedicated three parts to his book Imperialism and the Revolution calling Mao anti-Marxist and China social-imperialist)


No, China is not moving towards capitalism, it is capitalist. It has a stock-market for fuck's sake and openly legalized private property a few years ago, even though that institution has existed for decades longer.As in Cuba, China still has some programs left over from the Maoist-era. I'm sure by 2020 or so it will pretty much be completely capitalistic and have abandoned just about all of its Socialist programs. There seems to be a battle between the outright revisionists (think Xiaoping-types and even some Gorbachev-esque types in hiding) and the simple revisionists (think Andropov) but the latter is quickly losing.