Alex Jones: Exposed !

[marxist_god]

Alex Jones Exposed!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sections:

Introduction
Confession
Silverstein's "Pull It"
Honorary Member RSICC
Denies Israeli Involvement in 9/11
Denies Israel Behind USS Liberty
Alex and the John Birch Society
Barking up the Wrong Tree
Israel Innocent?
In it for the Money!
Martial Law Review
Bohemian Grove
London Terror Drill
The A-Game
David Icke
Christian Family Betrayed
Promotes Zionist Mike Berger
Defense and Rebuttals
Censorship
Illegal Aliens
Wrap up


Note: You may be able to affect the contents of this page. Join our forum and participate in the discussion here . Some people allege there are lies on this page, but do they prove it anywhere? I have yet to hear a defense for Alex that can't be equally applied to Mainstream News which he slags.



Introduction
To some people Alex Jones is a hero, a super patriot, someone who's putting their life on the line to expose tyranny and corruption, To other people he comes across as a championship wrestler (the fake kind) or a used crooked car salesman.

Wouldn't criminals capable of carrying out 911 be smart and capable enough to set up an alternative media to divert people who search for more truth than what they find on Mainstream News? Wouldn't they use techniques that don't appeal to scoffers like bull-horning and ranting to maintain status quo? Wouldn't they just tell us what we already know, or could have heard somewhere else while cleverly providing damage control, whitewashing, and misdirection for the true criminals? Wouldn't they use scapegoats such as labeling the perpetrators as Satanic Cults instead of identifying them as Zionists which incidentally use Christianity and Judaism as a tool?

Alex's Christianity promotion serves Zionism with it's precepts like: "bless your persecutors", "obey the laws of the land", and "Israel is God's elect (or chosen)". What would you do if you were a part of the criminal network? Wouldn't you set up and maintain a controlled alternative media? Some people think the conspiracy against us started with 911 when in fact water fluoridation has been done since the time of Hitler when it was used to induce apathy and population control in Nazi Germany.



Alex Jones confesses! 7/14/2006!
I believe we've put the pressure on him as well as other Zionist deniers and now they are struggling to maintain their control and positions in media.

Alex Jones Confesses (mp3 audio)!

Now that Alex is coming clean about Zionism (because he must to maintain control), lets look at how he directs that control.

Calling the White House would be ineffective other than getting your name added to a list. He would have you confess that you know who the terrorists are to the White House! -That's insane!

Alex on Silverstein's: "Pull it"



quote:

'We know that the term 'pull it' means to bring the building down by means of explosives because in the same documentary a cleanup worker (in December 2001) refers to the demolition of WTC Building 6 when he says, "...we're getting ready to pull the building six."'

From: http://www.prisonplanet.com/011904wtc7.html

Now here he bases this definition of "pull it" solely on them using it on Building Six (where he also leaves out that they were pulling down the remains with cables). This I downloaded from his site and re-hosted it: Source of File






Alex Jones Honorary Member RSICC:
http://www.rsicc.org/Members/AlexJones/index.html

http://www.remnantsaints.com/index.html

http://www.rsicc.org/Members/founding1.htm

Revealing Discussion (more evidence on this since Alex has addressed it):

http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1252



Alex Jones Denies Israel Carried Out 9/11:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hORYNTEYvkI&eurl=

http://911underground.com/Over_the_Edge_20...ed_Out_9-11.MP3 (http://911underground.com/Over_the_Edge_2006-05-08_Alex_Jones_Denies_Israel_Carried_Out_9-11.MP3)

Alex-Jones-Cheney-Israel-8May2006.mp3

Why do we believe the Zionists are the masterminds of 911

Connecting Israel to 9-11



Alex Jones Denies Israel Involvement On USS Liberty:
Video of Alex Shifting Blame

vs. what really happened:

Prisoners’ Massacre

Dead in the Water: The Sinking of USS Liberty

Loss of Liberty

USS Liberty - Tom Parker interviews survivors of the USS Liberty



Alex Jones is alleging that:

* President Johnson had direct control over a Navy ship
*LBJ made a secret deal with Israel to attack the ship and kill everybody on board

Alex does not provide any evidence that there was any secret deal, or any reasonable explanation for why the Israeli Government would be complicit.

Why would Israel (America's Ally) risk such a heinous crime?

Alex Jones would have us to believe that the government and military of Israel are submissive and merely accomplices of the criminal American government .

Some people presume that President Johnson's backing of the Vietnam War was evidence that he wanted war however, Johnson was just another criminal promoted to president because he would be complicit with the Zionist controllers.

The evidence points to the Zionists who wanted the Vietnam War, not "the Pentagon".

Kay Griggs tells us that the Vietnam War was pushed on America by such people as Henry Kissinger and Walt Whitman Rostow.


Kay Griggs Talks: Desperate Wives (Blackmail In US Government)



American media, government and banks are under the control of Zionists, not the other way around.


Alex Jones tells us the purpose for attempting to sink the USS Liberty was to allow the USA to take over the entire Middle East. America was already fighting in the Vietnam War. Going to war in the Middle East would require the USA participating in two very big wars.

Alex Jones gives no evidence that President Johnson had any plans for this absurd notion of entering another war to take over the entire Middle East.


Alex Jones and the John Birch Society
Robert Welch who founded the John Birch Society was apparently under Zionist influence for absorbing and deflecting the energy and money of freedom fighting Americans from the Zionist Conspiracy against America to the Communist Conspiracy.

Alex Jones is a strong supporter of Ron Paul, who has this to say about the John Birch Society:

Quote:

"The beneficial, educational impact of the John Birch Society over the past four decades would be hard to overestimate. It is certainly far more than most people realize. Anyone who has been in the trenches over the years battling on any of the major issues - whether it's pro-life, gun rights, property rights, taxes, government spending, regulation, national security, privacy, national sovereignty, the United Nations, foreign aid - knows that members of the John Birch Society are always in there doing the heavy lifting. And most importantly, they approach all of these issues from a strong moral and constitutional perspective. Lots of people pay lip service to the Constitution, but Birchers study it, understand it, apply it, and are serious about protecting it and holding public officials accountable to it."

Alex Jones

Quote:


"I want to work with you guys, to see you grow"


Ron Paul and the John Birch Society
Alex Jones Barking up the Wrong Tree
"While Alex was bull horning the CFR building on the anniversary of 9-11, he spat off about the “Nazi” perpetrators within the administration whom he holds responsible. Where are the so-called ‘Aryan Supremacists’ within the United States? Eliot Spitzer, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Henry Kissinger, Robert Kagan, Rudy Giuliani, Dov Zakheim, David Rockefeller, Maurice Greenberg, William Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, Lewis Libby, Richard Pearl and Michael Bloomberg, to name but a few…

Some have German origins but they are also Jews also; the headquarters of the Aryan Warlords who formed Nazism was the Grand Orient Lodge, founded by Adam Weishaupt and Mayer Amschel Bauer, to subvert Freemasons.

-http://www.illuminati-news.com/091906a.htm



Is Israel Innocent?
Alex doesn't believe that Zionists have much of an influence on America.

Listen to Alex Jones (April 4 2006) as he reacts to a caller who asked about this report that alleges Israel is influencing American foreign policy:


right click and save: AlexJones_4Apr2006.mp3

-Clearly he interrupts and diverts the conversation.

Alex loves to blames Luciferians instead:

Jones_Luciferians_kill_Jews.mp3



Alex Jones Loves Money!
We hear it all the time from Alex.. "buy my dvds", "water is poison... buy a Berkey", "Subscribe for pennies a day". Does anyone realize how stupid rich this person is; yet he continues to bombard us with infomercials? Berkey filters by default don't filter out fluoride, and it appears they try to hide this fact.

http://69.28.73.17/thornarticles/corbin.html

"For three days in October, 2003, radio talk-show host Michael Corbin (whose program, A Closer Look, was carried at the time by GCN) appeared as a guest-host for Alex Jones. In case you don’t know, Jones’ show lasts three hours each day, so right off the bat there’s nine total hours. But the total amount of time that Corbin sacrificed was much greater."

"With this in mind, guess what gratitude he received for his efforts. Corbin told us during his June 8, 2005 appearance on WING TV (see transcript below) that during the third hour of his final day as guest host, he received a phone call from Violet Jones (Alex’s wife).

And what did she say to Corbin? Did she thank him for sacrificing 15-18 hours of his life – without pay – to host Alex’s show? No, Violet Jones chastised him because … get this … Alex’s video sales had fallen because he wasn’t pushing them hard enough!"

---

Concerning text advertising on his site:

"These links are disguised as news and feature prominently near the top of the website news sections (police state and general). "

Click for Screenshot

-Disguised as news?




Martial Law: 9/11 Rise of the Police State
Why does he call them “elite”? Why would he use the word “globalist”?

Why does he leave out information on Zionism yet he attacks Michael Moore for leaving things out of his documentary? ~29-37 minutes in.

Doesn't his association of Bush and Usama Bin Ladin contradict Bush's support of Israel? ~33 minutes in.

In the 36th minute he claims they're going to expose the people who perpetrated 911, -Does he go to the "rock bottom"?

At ~1:03 he brings up 2000 degrees of temperature? F or C Alex? How credible does that make you?

At about 1:31 He discusses sound wave weapons being used in Iraq against our enemies. Is Iraq really our enemy? Aren't we the ones on the offensive? Isn't Israel our true enemy?

At 1:42 he confronts David Gergen (see below).



Alex Jones on Bohemian Grove
We find Alex Jones boasting about blowing Bohemian Grove wide open. Did he really?

The only thing new he presented to my recollection was video footage inside the grove that appears staged. Nothing new or incriminating was revealed in his video, and taping was paused at suspicious moments like when he's approached.

His subsequent interview with (See Martial Law above at 1:41) David Gergen also appears staged. David was walking slowly as if he was trying to make it easier to be approached from behind for the interview.

How did Alex just happen to land an on the spot interview with someone of his age, wisdom and expertise?

This interview came out about the time there was wide spread skepticism about Alex's alleged infiltration.

Discussion of Bohemian Grove





Alex Jones on London Terror Drill
http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/07/alex-j...don-terror.html (http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/07/alex-jones-is-wrong-on-london-terror.html)

"Radio host, Alex Jones is spreading misleading, false and overblown claims linking Peter Power, a crisis management consultant and former member of Britain's anti-terror police, to a 'terrorism drill' which Jones alleges was used to provide cover for State perpetrators of the multiple blasts."

"The wild allegations leave others presenting so-called "conspiracy theories" about these attacks open to ridicule --because of false claims by the most reknowned radio show on these topics.

The weekend article by Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones was published on the PrisonPlanet.com website.

They claim that in a BBC Radio 5 interview on July 7th, Peter Power admitted that his Visor Consulting firm: "was running a 1,000 person strong exercise which drilled the London Underground being bombed at the exact same locations, at the exact same times, as happened in real life.""

***

That couldn't be more wrong.

In fact, Power's consultancy firm was running a small "corporate wargame" drill for the management team of a British company with 1,000 employees. Here's the BBC transcript of the interview Power gave [our emphasis]:


POWER: "At half past nine this morning we were actually running an exercise for a company of over a thousand people in London based on simultaneous bombs going off precisely at the railway stations where it happened this morning, so I still have the hairs on the back of my neck standing up right now."

[mp3 Audio]


Clearly, the figure of 1,000 refers to the size of the company whose managers were being drilled - and not to the number of participants in the drill.

Furthermore, any savvy investigator knows that these types of private-sector "risk management" drills never use field staff. Neither do these low-level corporate drills have active involvement of police or other security forces.



The A-Game
http://www.sacredcow.com/allnew/index_cont...edia_video_alex (http://www.sacredcow.com/allnew/index_content.php?n=multimedia_video_alex)

Someone says about 1 minute into the video; "You're saying; George Bush engineered the 911 attacks". After Alex boasts of his accomplishments he claims "it's been proven, it's absolutely fact". When asked "how did George Bush engineer the attack"; he replies with "I've got my new one hour and 43 minute documentary extravaganza". Why does he want us to believe it's George Bush that engineered it?





Alex Jones on David Icke
In the video: David Icke: The Lizards and the Jews , we see Alex vehemently verbally attacking the character of David Icke at ~10:46 (who apparently exposes Zionism through allegory). Fans of Alex Jones are notorious for whining about "divide and conquer" and "hurting the truth movement" for the very thing Alex is doing here. Using Allegory to expose Zionism is better than white-washing isn't it?





A Christian Family Betrayed
http://www.christianmediaresearch.com/jones.html

It seems that after Jones shot the video he wanted, including footage from within the premises showing crucial defensive locations from within the Gray residence, Alex Jones turned around and sold the video tape to a television network to be aired on the 20/20 news magazine program! Furthermore, it has now been established that Ted Anderson, the head of the Genesis Communications Network, has participated in a cover-up to keep the public from learning the truth about the treachery of his top host!





Alex Jones promotes Zionist Mike Berger
Alex Jones interviewed Mike Berger of 911truth.org.
Mike Berger was also selected by CNN to discuss 9/11:


Mike Berger told us that we need to ignore where we disagree:
Alex-Jones-Mike-Berger-8May2006_1.mp3

A few moments later, Berger repeats his suggestion that we unite:
Alex-Jones-Mike-Berger-8May2006_2.mp3

Mike Berger wants us to unite, but under his conditions.



Moments later Alex Jones repeats his theory that Israel was not involved in 9/11. Instead he blames Dick Cheney and the mysterious people above him:
Alex-Jones-Cheney-Israel-8May2006.mp3

Jones never mentions their names. Why would he call them "the Feds", or "the New World Order", or the "Germanic Death Cult"?



Claims in Defense of Alex Jones + Rebuttals
Alex has done a lot to wake people up and spread truth.

He's amassed great wealth for himself and bombards his fans with 3 hour radio shows, 1 hour tv shows, and endless dvd documentaries full of repetition, wasted space, and commercials for himself. This wasted time could be better spent on people who would be more well known if the Zionist controlled alternative media (Alex Jones + others) weren't in place.

Alex is the grand daddy of 911

Exposing Northwoods documents prior to 911 doesn't make for a "grand daddy" status. The documents were declassified, and in the plans I don't believe there was mention of human casualties. How do we know that the piece wasn't cooperatively planted? I know I wasn't the only one watching tv that day that could tell what was really going on without needing those documents or knowledge of AJ. Alex getting the most press about 911 truth is more of a tell of his cooperation than evidence of him being the "grand daddy".

Alex Jones doesn't hurt the movement; people like you do!

If soldiers knew they were fighting for another country's benefit, instead of just oil for their own country do you think they might quit? Many of them think we're merely over there for oil. When they realize their pay will be worthless soon because their country sold out to Israel; they might get second thoughts. When we as tax payers see the horrors inflicted on the Palestinian people funded by our tax dollars that we can't afford; we might start giving a crap. Things will change when people realize why it's illegal in some countries to question the holocaust , Why we scarcely hear about who owns and controls our banks, media (including alternative media), and religion or how these people are setting things up to control the entire world from Israel. Alex has done us all a disservice by bombarding us with diversion and committed treason by lying to us about 911 and USS Liberty.

"I foolishly posted a bulletin about your page alleging Alex as self catering or misguided, and all the responses I got back said that they checked out your stuff and that you were a fed, a disinfo hack or challenged."

I'm showing evidence. Where's there's? You're obviously not familiar with the rules of disinformation and your friends are not really friends; not even e-friends.

"All my responses back about your page that I posted asking if your info has been addressed or debunked were met with an resounding, don't give this hater a second of your time, but alas I am a sucker to ask inquiries."

Liars will tell you not to waste your time. I tell people to investigate for themselves. This type of response only validates information that is attacked.

"Alex talks about Zionism"

Some people act as if we say Alex never mentions Zionism or he never exposes it. Recently someone posted a 13 second clip from his show where he puts blame on Zionism. 13 seconds in very subtle voice for him, using terminology that most of his followers don't understand and he does not elaborate on. Compare this to his repetitious 20 minute rants about Mexicans, and understand that his job like the John Birch Society is deflecting. To be effective at deflecting; he's got to make statements to try to maintain his credibility, and that people can use to say things like; "there he said it!".



Alex Jones and Censorship
Alex would like us to believe that he's against censorship. Quote from http://www.myspace.com/alex_infowarrior :

"Alex promotes free speech, expression and certainly not government and corporate censorship. In this vein, comments and expressions by friends are not censored, but do not necessarily reflect the views of this profile. Furthermore, the purpose of this profile is to test the censorship of MySpace--primarily based upon political content."

What Alex doesn't tell you is that Myspace is accountable to affiliates and their Terms of Service (TOS)! Myspace is a business and must censor to maintain it's income. Alex has a forum which could be great for free speach!



Even his fans are finding out that he doesn't truely love free speech. To hear the audio, right click and download: Alex Jones: Arabs Own Hollywood mp3



Alex on Illegal Aliens crossing the boarder into the USA
How does this compare to Israel knocking down Palestinian homes, killing the children of Palestine, or forcing people off the land they lived their whole life on? Alex is constantly complaining about Illegal Aliens.

I remember on 911 something George W. Bush said about "American Lives". It seems to me that Alex is using this same ploy of appealing to American's sense of pride and self importance. Lets ignore what's going on in Palestine because that's what Zionism is all about.

Here's a short audio rant: Jones-on-Mexicans-17June2007.mp3



Do you support Criminals?

People who are aware of the evidence against Alex Jones and continue to spam and praise him should be considered enemies, manipulated people, or idiots.

It is important to understand why we are at war with Israel's enemies. It's important to demonstrate how the USA is being used and donates hundreds of billions of dollars worth of support to Israel essentially funding their illegal land grabbing, murder, torture and terrorism of the Palestinian people.



*Note that Jewish people are also against Zionism, Christianity serves Zionism, and that there is no such thing as a Jewish race. The administrators of opposingdigits.com are against racism which is a tool of war.

Discuss this page in our forum: http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4221

Of similar interest:

Daryl Bradford Smith and Eric Hufschmid Exposed

What is Loose Change Really?

[Tower of Bebel]

I don't have to read the whole post to know that Alex Jones sucks. :rolleyes:

[Dimentio]

That was a very confused article. It seems to criticise Alex Jones from a conspirationist perspective, which is like the IRTR denouncing MIM for not hating workers in the first world enough.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 04:51 pm
I don't have to read the whole post to know that Alex Jones sucks. :rolleyes:

Hello, even though Alex Jones is energetic, motivated and has a lot of courage, at fighting neocons, and says a lot of true things about the US corrupt government, like 9-11, the jewish lobby inside US government, etc. his solution is not good either. He is not a socialist which would be the most rational solution to neocon imperialism. but instead of being a leftist and revolutionary socialist. His ideology according to him is not liberalism, nor conservatism, but free market libertarian nationalism. He has traits of racism as well, he hates "La Raza" movement from Mexico. He says that Mexicans that come into the USA come to destroy us, to take away our jobs, and that Mexicans are very bad people, he calls Mexicans, all Mexicans event he Legal mexicans, he labels them as "Illegal Aliens". From my own personal point of view, the only aliens are UFOS, and even UFOS if friendly should be welcome in this earth. I don't understand why the hatred of Alex Jones against Mexicans, why he hates Mexicans so much. Mexicans did not cause the US debt, did not lobby for wars, did not create the patriot act, were not part of 9-11, mexicans are not even in favor of NAFTA. Mexicans and all immigrants just come to USA because their own countries have been destroyed economically by Neoliberalism, and the left in their own countries is too weak, so they come here to survive, as a survival mechanism that all species have

marxist_god

[Tower of Bebel]

free market libertarian nationalism :wacko:

Sorry, but AJ is confused and that's it.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 05:10 pm

free market libertarian nationalism :wacko:

Sorry, but AJ is confused and that's it.

Hello my friend, and not only confused, but very 'closed minded' to any open debate about free market capitalist libertarian nationalism. He attacks Bush and neocons often for not being open to debates, not listening, but Alex Jones is just like neocon ultra-conservative right-wingers, *closed-minded*

take care

marxist_god

[Zurdito]

what the hell was that post about? Alex Jones is a Zionist or something?

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 05:29 pm
what the hell was that post about? Alex Jones is a Zionist or something?

Hi, well Alex Jones is just a free market white nationalist capitalist

marxist_god

[Tower of Bebel]

Isn't Alex Jones attacking everyone who has enormous influence on politics?

[Zurdito]

Originally posted by marxist_god+December 05, 2007 05:30 pm--> (marxist_god @ December 05, 2007 05:30 pm)
[email protected] 05, 2007 05:29 pm
what the hell was that post about? Alex Jones is a Zionist or something?

Hi, well Alex Jones is just a free market white nationalist capitalist

marxist_god [/b]

it seemed to say he was a tool of the zionists though, and a traitor to his own movement, which is quite different. where did you get that article from? it was horribly written and very confusing.

he could hardly be "exposed" as a free market white nationalist capitalist when he didn't really claim to be anything else, to my knowledge (or at least no arxist seriously believed him to be anything else)

[bootleg42]

Jones is a real cappie and he claims Noam Chomsky is part of a thing called the "new world order" (look for his interview with Chomsky on youtube and see how dirty Jones gets in the end).

The guy is a far right person who is dangerous to workers movements. He claims communism is a conspiracy by something called "the illuminai".

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 09:49 pm
Jones is a real cappie and he claims Noam Chomsky is part of a thing called the "new world order" (look for his interview with Chomsky on youtube and see how dirty Jones gets in the end).

The guy is a far right person who is dangerous to workers movements. He claims communism is a conspiracy by something called "the illuminai".


Hello, true, i know that concentration of wealth is a real concept, the wealth of this world is concentrated, and the power too, that is a fact by statistics. However the problem i see with Alex Jones, and the conspiracy theory movement is that even though they might be right in a lot of things like 9-11, police repression, fascism, etc. They are not rational in their answer to capitalist fascism, which is revolutionary leftism.

Instead of offering the masses a leftist solution the conspiracy theory movement rally behind the figure of Ron Paul.

So by attacting a lot of anti-bush americans to the conspiracy theory movement of USA and to Ron Paul, the US left is getting weaker indeed.

And that is why we have seen a great decrease in US Leftism in the late years, as opposed to the 1960s where the youth joined leftist movements as a solution and alternative to problems.

But today's youth and general population is joining the conspiracy theory movement as an answer to our world problems, instead of joining leftist movements wich is a more rational answer and solution

marxist_god

[Comrade Rage]

Originally posted by marxist_god+December 05, 2007 04:04 pm--> (marxist_god @ December 05, 2007 04:04 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 09:49 pm
Jones is a real cappie and he claims Noam Chomsky is part of a thing called the "new world order" (look for his interview with Chomsky on youtube and see how dirty Jones gets in the end).

The guy is a far right person who is dangerous to workers movements. He claims communism is a conspiracy by something called "the illuminai".


Hello, true, i know that concentration of wealth is a real concept, the wealth of this world is concentrated, and the power too, that is a fact by statistics. However the problem i see with Alex Jones, and the conspiracy theory movement is that even though they might be right in a lot of things like 9-11, police repression, fascism, etc. They are not rational in their answer to capitalist fascism, which is revolutionary leftism.

Instead of offering the masses a leftist solution the conspiracy theory movement rally behind the figure of Ron Paul.

So by attacting a lot of anti-bush americans to the conspiracy theory movement of USA and to Ron Paul, the US left is getting weaker indeed.

And that is why we have seen a great decrease in US Leftism in the late years, as opposed to the 1960s where the youth joined leftist movements as a solution and alternative to problems.

But today's youth and general population is joining the conspiracy theory movement as an answer to our world problems, instead of joining leftist movements wich is a more rational answer and solution

marxist_god [/b]
Which is why we have to expose this guy as a nutter. The article does that, but it's failing is that it attacks him from a nutter perspective.

marxist_god
Hello my friend, and not only confused, but very 'closed minded' to any open debate about free market capitalist libertarian nationalism. He attacks Bush and neocons often for not being open to debates, not listening, but Alex Jones is just like neocon ultra-conservative right-wingers, *closed-minded*
Rakunin is not confused, what he said is the truth, and it's true for most people. Alex Jones is obviously a very paranoid individual with rightist tendencies. The fact that he's correct on a few events of the Bush regime doesn't negate that fact. It just proves he hasn't lost touch with reality.

(Yet ;) )

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 09:49 pm
Jones is a real cappie and he claims Noam Chomsky is part of a thing called the "new world order" (look for his interview with Chomsky on youtube and see how dirty Jones gets in the end).

The guy is a far right person who is dangerous to workers movements. He claims communism is a conspiracy by something called "the illuminai".
The Federal Reserve and the World Bank is making globalisation as a path towards communism, headed by Illuminati/Lizards/Jews/Teddy Bears/Aliens or whatever shit...

I think we should start to analyse conspirationism, since it today has become an own ideology.

[MT5678]

Yeah, most rightists are insane. Some claim that the NY Times is part of a "vast leftist conspiracy", when it is a statist conservative newspaper that backs human rights abuse, as when it supported the Contras in Nicaragua 20 years ago.

Most of what this guy says doesn't even make sense.

[Philosophical Materialist]

Alex Jones is a nutcase.

Here are some of his beliefs:

Israel microwaved a hundred thousand of its own children.
Your cell phones are watching you every moment.
The main source of meat in North Korea is executed prisoners.
SWAT teams are being taught that Christians are evil.
The government can control the weather. (All conspiracy guys believe this. What's the deal?)
The Mafia was started by Julius Caeser's grandfather.

"Vaccines are killing our children--mainstream news." (Direct quote from InfoWars 12/27/01. No sources cited.)
SWAT team guys can't satisfy a woman. (InfoWars, 12/27/01. You never know how Alex Jones "knows" anything. Did the SWAT guys open up to Alex...or was there some study done? Alex didn't say.)
Texas is run by the Masons. (Is that why Texas has the worst schools in the world?)

"Cell phones have been proven in hundreds of major studied to cause brain tumors. There's no debating it." (Also no references or citations given. Alex says he sources everything, but he sources almost nothing he says. When you can find the source, you always discover that Alex has completely garbled it.)
Drinking fluoridated water causes your IQ to go down 10 points. (No documentation. No reference. No nothing.)

Devil-worshippers run the country. (But only angry white guys with IQ's in the mid-80's can perceive it!)
The government is afraid of smart people. (Explains why they leave the conspiracy guys alone.)
Cell phones cause brain tumors. "It's like proven."
The NRA are gun grabbers. (This shows you just how far to the right Alex is..)
There are government-run white slavery rings. (Alex didn't have time to say what government. He said there were lots of stories about this in the back of the newspaper. As usual, the statement is completely unsourced.)

Hitler blew up the Reichstag. (Blew it up? I thought he radio-controlled some planes into it. Or was it a missile...?)
Columbine was a government op. (Rule 1 for conspiracy nuts: anything you don't like is a government op. No proof required.)
Wal-Mart is a Defense Department front. (No proof required.)
Bill Clinton is a CIA agent. (Better you should ask, who's NOT a CIA agent in Alex's comic-book fantasy.)
Illegal aliens get to go to the front in emergency rooms. (They should--for keeping our economy afloat year after year.)

They put mercury in your vaccines to brain-damage your children. (Hence the 9/11 Truth Movement.)
The Aztecs would take hallucinogenic enemas and cut their penises off. (Ah, the Sixties!)
Alex Jones has correctly predicted everything that has happened in the last 10 years. (Can you spell M-E-G-A-L-O-M-A-N-I-A? I thought you could...)
FEMA has a giant private army. (They just can't find it.)

Everyone is talking about world government. (No they're not. As used by normal people, the phrase "new world order" simply means a change in the world order. It has no implication of world government. Conspiracy nuts are stupid--what can I say?)
Vaccines have brain-damaged millions of babies. (Based on a misreading of CDC documents. Alex Jones misreads everything in order to keep his fantasies flying.)
You can't succeed in academe unless you agree that 80% of the population has to be killed off. (That's all those stuck-up academics talk about.)

Black helicopters are real. (You create your own reality, dig.)
Illegal immigrants get free tuition and discounts on their Twinkies. They always go to the front of the line in emergency rooms. (It's part of the takeover.)
There's a worldwide takeover going on, perceptible only to dumb white guys...
...but everyone is waking up. (Conspiracy nuts always say "everyone is waking up." It's part of their delusional system--like their imagined ability to predict the future.)

The ruling elite of the world worship Moloch. (The evidence for this is a blurry video of the show at Bohemian Grove. Alex thinks the Bohemian Grove show is real.)
The secret rulers of the world can live forever. (No one knows where this comes from or why Alex believes it. I think it came from a dream Alex had. As far as I know, the rulers of the world continue to die normally.)
The elite have openly announced that they want to kill 80% of us. (But, oddly, in all the world only Alex Jones noticed these startling admissions!)

Dick Cheney writes papers saying terrorism isn't real. (Alex wouldn't say what papers. Though he talks incessantly about documentation, Alex Jones almost never says where he gets his information, much less why it's dependable.)
The U.S. Government went around Italy blowing up school busses full of children...& admitted it. (Twirling their moustaches & going "Nya-ha-ha-ha!" Alex hears a lot of admissions no one else can hear.)

The left-right political spectrum is bogus (This is the dominant paradigm of stupid people today! They never offer a shred of proof. It's just too self-evident to prove, when you're as smart as these guys.)
There are little wires in dollar bills that keep track of what you buy. (Somehow.)
Vicente Fox can morph into a green devil. (Alex says he saw him do it. Honest. This vision occurred when Fox visited Texas, c. 2003-4, & Alex bullhorned him.)

The Communist Chinese Army has taken over the Massachusetts Port Authority. (Maybe it's some kind of brain seizure with Alex.)
Noam Chomsky is a mongoloid idiot. Also an agent.
There are Illuminati symbols on Starbucks coffee cups. (The Illuminati leave clues visible only to angry white guys with IQ's in the mid-80's.)
Exits on tollroads are 50 miles apart. (It's a takeover opnly Alex Jones could see! Who woulda thought?)

Jacques Cousteau wanted to kill 80% of us. (Jacques, too? I wonder why he didn't live forever?)
Margaret Sanger gave & received awards from Hitler. (When the Nazis weren't burning her books.)
There are live AIDS viruses in the corn. (This means no sex with the corn.)
91% of Americans are Nazis. (Alex says anyone who favors gun control is a Nazi; 91% of Americans favor mandatory handgun registration; that's a lotta Nazis, Alex.)

The United Nations goes around Africa, sterilizing women at random (twirling their moustaches & going "Nya-ha-ha-haa!")
The Founding Fathers were basically stupid (they were Masons––but they didn't know about the secret conspiracy so obvious to Alex & his friends)
Masons can commit murder. They make a secret sign to the judges and are immediately set free. This has been solidly confirmed.

All throughout history, governments have always been Evil. (Bet you didn't know that. Like most of the Patriots, Alex is an anti-government bigot. He frequently poses as a historian, but no real historian subscribes to Alex Jones's bad comic book.)
Power outages are government plots.
Illegal immigration is a government plot.
The counterculture is a government plot.

Vaccines are a you-know-what.
Thumbscanning is a government plot.
Environmentalism is a government plot.
The National Seatbelt Initiative is a bloody government plot.
Feminism is a government plot.
Tollroads are a gummint plot.

The goddam drug culture is a government plot. (Alex Buzzkill Jones.)
Cell phones are a government plot.
Wal Mart is a government plot. (A Defense Department front. It's all out there in the open...but only Alex Jones can see it. Far out.)

Sports are a government plot...somehow.
Antidepressants are a government plot. (Better you should say "What's NOT a government plot?")
All domestic terror attacks are government plots. (Pulled off by the most incompetent administration in history, fooling everyone in the world except angry white guys with IQ's in the mid-80's.)

The bad guys plant clues in TV shows and tell you what they're going to do on TV. (Though only one man in the world can perceive these clues. Think of the burden this puts on Alex.)
The government brings in all the drugs. (All of them! Only Alex Jones knows this. No documentation. No nothing. Just another bad dream Alex mistook for news.)
Skull & Bones is part of an English plot to take over America.
The United Nations is part of a (very slow) plot to take over America.

Source: http://perrylogan.org/AlexBleef.html

[Plan9]

I found this on kook Alex Jones, made me lul:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4SpS7gRZhCk

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by Philosophical [email protected] 06, 2007 08:55 am
Alex Jones is a nutcase.

Here are some of his beliefs:

Israel microwaved a hundred thousand of its own children.
Your cell phones are watching you every moment.
The main source of meat in North Korea is executed prisoners.
SWAT teams are being taught that Christians are evil.
The government can control the weather. (All conspiracy guys believe this. What's the deal?)
The Mafia was started by Julius Caeser's grandfather.

"Vaccines are killing our children--mainstream news." (Direct quote from InfoWars 12/27/01. No sources cited.)
SWAT team guys can't satisfy a woman. (InfoWars, 12/27/01. You never know how Alex Jones "knows" anything. Did the SWAT guys open up to Alex...or was there some study done? Alex didn't say.)
Texas is run by the Masons. (Is that why Texas has the worst schools in the world?)

"Cell phones have been proven in hundreds of major studied to cause brain tumors. There's no debating it." (Also no references or citations given. Alex says he sources everything, but he sources almost nothing he says. When you can find the source, you always discover that Alex has completely garbled it.)
Drinking fluoridated water causes your IQ to go down 10 points. (No documentation. No reference. No nothing.)

Devil-worshippers run the country. (But only angry white guys with IQ's in the mid-80's can perceive it!)
The government is afraid of smart people. (Explains why they leave the conspiracy guys alone.)
Cell phones cause brain tumors. "It's like proven."
The NRA are gun grabbers. (This shows you just how far to the right Alex is..)
There are government-run white slavery rings. (Alex didn't have time to say what government. He said there were lots of stories about this in the back of the newspaper. As usual, the statement is completely unsourced.)

Hitler blew up the Reichstag. (Blew it up? I thought he radio-controlled some planes into it. Or was it a missile...?)
Columbine was a government op. (Rule 1 for conspiracy nuts: anything you don't like is a government op. No proof required.)
Wal-Mart is a Defense Department front. (No proof required.)
Bill Clinton is a CIA agent. (Better you should ask, who's NOT a CIA agent in Alex's comic-book fantasy.)
Illegal aliens get to go to the front in emergency rooms. (They should--for keeping our economy afloat year after year.)

They put mercury in your vaccines to brain-damage your children. (Hence the 9/11 Truth Movement.)
The Aztecs would take hallucinogenic enemas and cut their penises off. (Ah, the Sixties!)
Alex Jones has correctly predicted everything that has happened in the last 10 years. (Can you spell M-E-G-A-L-O-M-A-N-I-A? I thought you could...)
FEMA has a giant private army. (They just can't find it.)

Everyone is talking about world government. (No they're not. As used by normal people, the phrase "new world order" simply means a change in the world order. It has no implication of world government. Conspiracy nuts are stupid--what can I say?)
Vaccines have brain-damaged millions of babies. (Based on a misreading of CDC documents. Alex Jones misreads everything in order to keep his fantasies flying.)
You can't succeed in academe unless you agree that 80% of the population has to be killed off. (That's all those stuck-up academics talk about.)

Black helicopters are real. (You create your own reality, dig.)
Illegal immigrants get free tuition and discounts on their Twinkies. They always go to the front of the line in emergency rooms. (It's part of the takeover.)
There's a worldwide takeover going on, perceptible only to dumb white guys...
...but everyone is waking up. (Conspiracy nuts always say "everyone is waking up." It's part of their delusional system--like their imagined ability to predict the future.)

The ruling elite of the world worship Moloch. (The evidence for this is a blurry video of the show at Bohemian Grove. Alex thinks the Bohemian Grove show is real.)
The secret rulers of the world can live forever. (No one knows where this comes from or why Alex believes it. I think it came from a dream Alex had. As far as I know, the rulers of the world continue to die normally.)
The elite have openly announced that they want to kill 80% of us. (But, oddly, in all the world only Alex Jones noticed these startling admissions!)

Dick Cheney writes papers saying terrorism isn't real. (Alex wouldn't say what papers. Though he talks incessantly about documentation, Alex Jones almost never says where he gets his information, much less why it's dependable.)
The U.S. Government went around Italy blowing up school busses full of children...& admitted it. (Twirling their moustaches & going "Nya-ha-ha-ha!" Alex hears a lot of admissions no one else can hear.)

The left-right political spectrum is bogus (This is the dominant paradigm of stupid people today! They never offer a shred of proof. It's just too self-evident to prove, when you're as smart as these guys.)
There are little wires in dollar bills that keep track of what you buy. (Somehow.)
Vicente Fox can morph into a green devil. (Alex says he saw him do it. Honest. This vision occurred when Fox visited Texas, c. 2003-4, & Alex bullhorned him.)

The Communist Chinese Army has taken over the Massachusetts Port Authority. (Maybe it's some kind of brain seizure with Alex.)
Noam Chomsky is a mongoloid idiot. Also an agent.
There are Illuminati symbols on Starbucks coffee cups. (The Illuminati leave clues visible only to angry white guys with IQ's in the mid-80's.)
Exits on tollroads are 50 miles apart. (It's a takeover opnly Alex Jones could see! Who woulda thought?)

Jacques Cousteau wanted to kill 80% of us. (Jacques, too? I wonder why he didn't live forever?)
Margaret Sanger gave & received awards from Hitler. (When the Nazis weren't burning her books.)
There are live AIDS viruses in the corn. (This means no sex with the corn.)
91% of Americans are Nazis. (Alex says anyone who favors gun control is a Nazi; 91% of Americans favor mandatory handgun registration; that's a lotta Nazis, Alex.)

The United Nations goes around Africa, sterilizing women at random (twirling their moustaches & going "Nya-ha-ha-haa!")
The Founding Fathers were basically stupid (they were Masons––but they didn't know about the secret conspiracy so obvious to Alex & his friends)
Masons can commit murder. They make a secret sign to the judges and are immediately set free. This has been solidly confirmed.

All throughout history, governments have always been Evil. (Bet you didn't know that. Like most of the Patriots, Alex is an anti-government bigot. He frequently poses as a historian, but no real historian subscribes to Alex Jones's bad comic book.)
Power outages are government plots.
Illegal immigration is a government plot.
The counterculture is a government plot.

Vaccines are a you-know-what.
Thumbscanning is a government plot.
Environmentalism is a government plot.
The National Seatbelt Initiative is a bloody government plot.
Feminism is a government plot.
Tollroads are a gummint plot.

The goddam drug culture is a government plot. (Alex Buzzkill Jones.)
Cell phones are a government plot.
Wal Mart is a government plot. (A Defense Department front. It's all out there in the open...but only Alex Jones can see it. Far out.)

Sports are a government plot...somehow.
Antidepressants are a government plot. (Better you should say "What's NOT a government plot?")
All domestic terror attacks are government plots. (Pulled off by the most incompetent administration in history, fooling everyone in the world except angry white guys with IQ's in the mid-80's.)

The bad guys plant clues in TV shows and tell you what they're going to do on TV. (Though only one man in the world can perceive these clues. Think of the burden this puts on Alex.)
The government brings in all the drugs. (All of them! Only Alex Jones knows this. No documentation. No nothing. Just another bad dream Alex mistook for news.)
Skull & Bones is part of an English plot to take over America.
The United Nations is part of a (very slow) plot to take over America.

Source: http://perrylogan.org/AlexBleef.html


However 9-11 was an inside job, because Al Qaeda itself is a fake organization, Al Qaeda is NOT a "jihadist insurgent group", Al Qaeda is trained by CIA and linked to CIA, like Bin Laden who worked for CIA

marxist_god

[Guerrilla22]

Alex Jones is a comlete nut jb, anyone who has ever listned to his radio show or visited his web site can figure that out in about two seconds.

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 07:20 pm
However 9-11 was an inside job, because Al Qaeda itself is a fake organization, Al Qaeda is NOT a "jihadist insurgent group", Al Qaeda is trained by CIA and linked to CIA, like Bin Laden who worked for CIA

marxist_god
Please don't stoop to his level. Yes Bin Laden WAS trained by the CIA but by thinking they're with the CIA............come on.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by bootleg42+December 07, 2007 04:14 am--> (bootleg42 @ December 07, 2007 04:14 am)
[email protected] 06, 2007 07:20 pm
However 9-11 was an inside job, because Al Qaeda itself is a fake organization, Al Qaeda is NOT a "jihadist insurgent group", Al Qaeda is trained by CIA and linked to CIA, like Bin Laden who worked for CIA

marxist_god
Please don't stoop to his level. Yes Bin Laden WAS trained by the CIA but by thinking they're with the CIA............come on. [/b]


Even a 5 year old baby, knows that 9-11 was an inside job, just because the elitist liberal Alexander Cockburn from http://www.counterpunch.org and zmag tell you that 9-11 was not an inside job, you don't have to follow them like a religion. Think for yourself, question every thing. The motives, the smoking guns, and the US government official story itself which is a conspiracy (no evidence that 19 poor islamic terrorists did it) points to inside job


marxist_god

[Tatarin]

...because Al Qaeda itself is a fake organization,...

Not quite. al-Quaeda may have been influenced by the picture the media presented - a global organization with thousands of members and bin Laden at the top. This is of course needed by the U.S. as a new enemy after the collapse of the USSR.


...Al Qaeda is trained by CIA and linked to CIA, like Bin Laden who worked for CIA

They were sponsored against the USSR in Afghanistan, sure. But it is not like they are a part of the CIA.


Even a 5 year old baby, knows that 9-11 was an inside job,...

And you believe that 9/11 was an inside job just because the "truth movement" told you so? All "facts" I have seen so far from the 9/11 conspiracy theory are either so vauge that they could be used to describe anything, or deliberately manipulated by the conspiracy theorist to fit his/her view.


Think for yourself, question every thing.

That's funny. Because when you're into the conspiracy you have woken up, thought for yourself and questioned everything. But if you are not into it, despite having reviewed all "evidence", suddenly you are "asleep", you are manipulated and you swallow everything the government tells you to swallow.

Also, are all the other scientists and phycisist all over the world affected by that conspiracy? Have they all been silenced? Or do they realize that there is no conspiracy?


The motives,...

To gain some money? Something they already have so much of, and getting more of every day? And at the risk of the destruction of the Republican party? Their motives are for too little at a too high risk.


...the smoking guns,...

What smoking guns? The hole in the Pentagon?


...and the US government official story itself which is a conspiracy...

No one here is a big fan of the US government, but conspiracy theories doesn't help a bit. They are an easier way of thinking, because then we only need to fix the government and everything will be fine. It also puts capitalism itself in a new light: capitalism is corrupted, that is why we have all these problems. Capitalism itself is a good system, all can profit, all can live in peace, we only need to remove the evil secret rulers.

Having said that, it must also be pointed out that everyone is human. Humans makes mistakes. The media is always onto stuff that is going on. And that is clearly their business - to be there first and say the event/s first. That also leads to a great deal of mistakes. Yes, the media said there were explosions inside the twin towers, which doesn't mean that they were bombs. Explosions can be many things.

Also, remember that the media was never inside the towers. They reported from persons all around, which themselves could have twisted the story (out of panic, fear etc).


...(no evidence that 19 poor islamic terrorists did it)...

There is plenty of evidence. Video footage, for example. If you mean that they found the 19 people alive, that is a confusion of similar names - how many Andersons is there in the US, for example? Then we have the explanation of how their passports could have survived. Well, a lot of other things survived too, like pillows, chairs etc.

The whole conspiracy is on itself very stupid. Just the amount of people required to be quiet after such an event would be enormous, would they all keep quiet in front of their families? Friends? What about the passengers who "disappeared" in Pentagon? Are they in the conspiracy too?

[bootleg42]

The whole conspiracy is on itself very stupid. Just the amount of people required to be quiet after such an event would be enormous, would they all keep quiet in front of their families? Friends? What about the passengers who "disappeared" in Pentagon? Are they in the conspiracy too?

True, I mean even within the bourgeoisie, if some "patriot" found out about it, they'd be "shocked" and would probably let lose on the details to the world like Alexander Litvinenko did with Russia and Vladimir Putin.

[dannthraxxx]

I am not even going to bother reading this. Alex Jones is an assclown just like the rest of the libertarians.

[Chicano Shamrock]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 08:33 pm
Even a 5 year old baby, knows that 9-11 was an inside job, just because the elitist liberal Alexander Cockburn from http://www.counterpunch.org and zmag tell you that 9-11 was not an inside job, you don't have to follow them like a religion. Think for yourself, question every thing. The motives, the smoking guns, and the US government official story itself which is a conspiracy (no evidence that 19 poor islamic terrorists did it) points to inside job


marxist_god
I have yet to see any evidence that it was an inside job. I don't follow anyone or anyone's dogmatic ideology. I do question everything and I especially question nutty conspiracy theories that are espoused by people who also claim that the people in power are lizards.

The "truth" movement distracts people from the real problems that they should be studying. Instead of finding out junk about 911 that may or may not be true why don't people find out about capitalism and it's faults which are solid facts.

[SouthernBelle82]

Originally posted by Philosophical [email protected] 06, 2007 08:55 am
Alex Jones is a nutcase.

Here are some of his beliefs:

Israel microwaved a hundred thousand of its own children.
Your cell phones are watching you every moment.
The main source of meat in North Korea is executed prisoners.
SWAT teams are being taught that Christians are evil.
The government can control the weather. (All conspiracy guys believe this. What's the deal?)
The Mafia was started by Julius Caeser's grandfather.

"Vaccines are killing our children--mainstream news." (Direct quote from InfoWars 12/27/01. No sources cited.)
SWAT team guys can't satisfy a woman. (InfoWars, 12/27/01. You never know how Alex Jones "knows" anything. Did the SWAT guys open up to Alex...or was there some study done? Alex didn't say.)
Texas is run by the Masons. (Is that why Texas has the worst schools in the world?)

"Cell phones have been proven in hundreds of major studied to cause brain tumors. There's no debating it." (Also no references or citations given. Alex says he sources everything, but he sources almost nothing he says. When you can find the source, you always discover that Alex has completely garbled it.)
Drinking fluoridated water causes your IQ to go down 10 points. (No documentation. No reference. No nothing.)

Devil-worshippers run the country. (But only angry white guys with IQ's in the mid-80's can perceive it!)
The government is afraid of smart people. (Explains why they leave the conspiracy guys alone.)
Cell phones cause brain tumors. "It's like proven."
The NRA are gun grabbers. (This shows you just how far to the right Alex is..)
There are government-run white slavery rings. (Alex didn't have time to say what government. He said there were lots of stories about this in the back of the newspaper. As usual, the statement is completely unsourced.)

Hitler blew up the Reichstag. (Blew it up? I thought he radio-controlled some planes into it. Or was it a missile...?)
Columbine was a government op. (Rule 1 for conspiracy nuts: anything you don't like is a government op. No proof required.)
Wal-Mart is a Defense Department front. (No proof required.)
Bill Clinton is a CIA agent. (Better you should ask, who's NOT a CIA agent in Alex's comic-book fantasy.)
Illegal aliens get to go to the front in emergency rooms. (They should--for keeping our economy afloat year after year.)

They put mercury in your vaccines to brain-damage your children. (Hence the 9/11 Truth Movement.)
The Aztecs would take hallucinogenic enemas and cut their penises off. (Ah, the Sixties!)
Alex Jones has correctly predicted everything that has happened in the last 10 years. (Can you spell M-E-G-A-L-O-M-A-N-I-A? I thought you could...)
FEMA has a giant private army. (They just can't find it.)

Everyone is talking about world government. (No they're not. As used by normal people, the phrase "new world order" simply means a change in the world order. It has no implication of world government. Conspiracy nuts are stupid--what can I say?)
Vaccines have brain-damaged millions of babies. (Based on a misreading of CDC documents. Alex Jones misreads everything in order to keep his fantasies flying.)
You can't succeed in academe unless you agree that 80% of the population has to be killed off. (That's all those stuck-up academics talk about.)

Black helicopters are real. (You create your own reality, dig.)
Illegal immigrants get free tuition and discounts on their Twinkies. They always go to the front of the line in emergency rooms. (It's part of the takeover.)
There's a worldwide takeover going on, perceptible only to dumb white guys...
...but everyone is waking up. (Conspiracy nuts always say "everyone is waking up." It's part of their delusional system--like their imagined ability to predict the future.)

The ruling elite of the world worship Moloch. (The evidence for this is a blurry video of the show at Bohemian Grove. Alex thinks the Bohemian Grove show is real.)
The secret rulers of the world can live forever. (No one knows where this comes from or why Alex believes it. I think it came from a dream Alex had. As far as I know, the rulers of the world continue to die normally.)
The elite have openly announced that they want to kill 80% of us. (But, oddly, in all the world only Alex Jones noticed these startling admissions!)

Dick Cheney writes papers saying terrorism isn't real. (Alex wouldn't say what papers. Though he talks incessantly about documentation, Alex Jones almost never says where he gets his information, much less why it's dependable.)
The U.S. Government went around Italy blowing up school busses full of children...& admitted it. (Twirling their moustaches & going "Nya-ha-ha-ha!" Alex hears a lot of admissions no one else can hear.)

The left-right political spectrum is bogus (This is the dominant paradigm of stupid people today! They never offer a shred of proof. It's just too self-evident to prove, when you're as smart as these guys.)
There are little wires in dollar bills that keep track of what you buy. (Somehow.)
Vicente Fox can morph into a green devil. (Alex says he saw him do it. Honest. This vision occurred when Fox visited Texas, c. 2003-4, & Alex bullhorned him.)

The Communist Chinese Army has taken over the Massachusetts Port Authority. (Maybe it's some kind of brain seizure with Alex.)
Noam Chomsky is a mongoloid idiot. Also an agent.
There are Illuminati symbols on Starbucks coffee cups. (The Illuminati leave clues visible only to angry white guys with IQ's in the mid-80's.)
Exits on tollroads are 50 miles apart. (It's a takeover opnly Alex Jones could see! Who woulda thought?)

Jacques Cousteau wanted to kill 80% of us. (Jacques, too? I wonder why he didn't live forever?)
Margaret Sanger gave & received awards from Hitler. (When the Nazis weren't burning her books.)
There are live AIDS viruses in the corn. (This means no sex with the corn.)
91% of Americans are Nazis. (Alex says anyone who favors gun control is a Nazi; 91% of Americans favor mandatory handgun registration; that's a lotta Nazis, Alex.)

The United Nations goes around Africa, sterilizing women at random (twirling their moustaches & going "Nya-ha-ha-haa!")
The Founding Fathers were basically stupid (they were Masons––but they didn't know about the secret conspiracy so obvious to Alex & his friends)
Masons can commit murder. They make a secret sign to the judges and are immediately set free. This has been solidly confirmed.

All throughout history, governments have always been Evil. (Bet you didn't know that. Like most of the Patriots, Alex is an anti-government bigot. He frequently poses as a historian, but no real historian subscribes to Alex Jones's bad comic book.)
Power outages are government plots.
Illegal immigration is a government plot.
The counterculture is a government plot.

Vaccines are a you-know-what.
Thumbscanning is a government plot.
Environmentalism is a government plot.
The National Seatbelt Initiative is a bloody government plot.
Feminism is a government plot.
Tollroads are a gummint plot.

The goddam drug culture is a government plot. (Alex Buzzkill Jones.)
Cell phones are a government plot.
Wal Mart is a government plot. (A Defense Department front. It's all out there in the open...but only Alex Jones can see it. Far out.)

Sports are a government plot...somehow.
Antidepressants are a government plot. (Better you should say "What's NOT a government plot?")
All domestic terror attacks are government plots. (Pulled off by the most incompetent administration in history, fooling everyone in the world except angry white guys with IQ's in the mid-80's.)

The bad guys plant clues in TV shows and tell you what they're going to do on TV. (Though only one man in the world can perceive these clues. Think of the burden this puts on Alex.)
The government brings in all the drugs. (All of them! Only Alex Jones knows this. No documentation. No nothing. Just another bad dream Alex mistook for news.)
Skull & Bones is part of an English plot to take over America.
The United Nations is part of a (very slow) plot to take over America.

Source: http://perrylogan.org/AlexBleef.html
80% of the people claim to be Christian of some denomination or another so wouldn't that include SWAT members? So isn't that contradicting the statement? Texas has bad schools because their government is run by rightwingers. Not every rightwinger is a Mason. I'm sure there are leftwing Mason's too. I've never seen any proof that Columbine was a government opperation. :rolleyes: Not everything that happens like that or OKC is government involvement. The last time I checked Bill Clinton wasn't a CIA agent. Plus even if he was there are good agents (like Valerie Wilson) and bad one's I'm sure. Like with anything. However George H W Bush was a CIA agent. If FEMA has this huge army why did local people in New Orleans call Blackwater? Some army FEMA has. They aren't supposed to have one. That's not the purpose of FEMA. Heh heh. There is a good point about BG. If it's so secret wouldn't they have people sign in and check in at the entrance? How could he get through? I saw his video and he claims he said he was with the Bush's. Wouldn't they call up the Bush's and ask if he was really with them? Aren't they supposed to have this tight security? And with his camera wouldn't it be obvious that he was doing something with a camera in his jacket or something? Wouldn't this place realize a stranger was there if they're all so close? I saw a video of his he did that was supposed to be about Skull and Bones but all it was was him talking about sb for like a few min's and then it was the bg video.

[SouthernBelle82]

Originally posted by Serpent+December 05, 2007 11:19 pm--> (Serpent @ December 05, 2007 11:19 pm)
[email protected] 05, 2007 09:49 pm
Jones is a real cappie and he claims Noam Chomsky is part of a thing called the "new world order" (look for his interview with Chomsky on youtube and see how dirty Jones gets in the end).

The guy is a far right person who is dangerous to workers movements. He claims communism is a conspiracy by something called "the illuminai".
The Federal Reserve and the World Bank is making globalisation as a path towards communism, headed by Illuminati/Lizards/Jews/Teddy Bears/Aliens or whatever shit...

I think we should start to analyse conspirationism, since it today has become an own ideology. [/b]
The Teddy Bears? I didn't know Phil Spector was now involved. lol. That was the name of his first band.

[SouthernBelle82]

Originally posted by Chicano Shamrock+December 08, 2007 11:34 am--> (Chicano Shamrock @ December 08, 2007 11:34 am)
[email protected] 06, 2007 08:33 pm
Even a 5 year old baby, knows that 9-11 was an inside job, just because the elitist liberal Alexander Cockburn from http://www.counterpunch.org and zmag tell you that 9-11 was not an inside job, you don't have to follow them like a religion. Think for yourself, question every thing. The motives, the smoking guns, and the US government official story itself which is a conspiracy (no evidence that 19 poor islamic terrorists did it) points to inside job


marxist_god
I have yet to see any evidence that it was an inside job. I don't follow anyone or anyone's dogmatic ideology. I do question everything and I especially question nutty conspiracy theories that are espoused by people who also claim that the people in power are lizards.

The "truth" movement distracts people from the real problems that they should be studying. Instead of finding out junk about 911 that may or may not be true why don't people find out about capitalism and it's faults which are solid facts. [/b]
I think it's hard to prove at this point personally. With me I don't claim to know what happened on 9/11 but I don't believe the people who are telling me it was AlQida because they've lied about everything else. Why didn't Bush start an investigation right away like they did with Pearl Harbor and JFK? And it is out there that the Bush and Binladin's families do have a history such as with BCCI.

[Dimentio]

You are involved. :)

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by SouthernBelle82+December 08, 2007 09:39 pm--> (SouthernBelle82 @ December 08, 2007 09:39 pm)
Originally posted by Chicano [email protected] 08, 2007 11:34 am

[email protected] 06, 2007 08:33 pm
Even a 5 year old baby, knows that 9-11 was an inside job, just because the elitist liberal Alexander Cockburn from http://www.counterpunch.org and zmag tell you that 9-11 was not an inside job, you don't have to follow them like a religion. Think for yourself, question every thing. The motives, the smoking guns, and the US government official story itself which is a conspiracy (no evidence that 19 poor islamic terrorists did it) points to inside job


marxist_god
I have yet to see any evidence that it was an inside job. I don't follow anyone or anyone's dogmatic ideology. I do question everything and I especially question nutty conspiracy theories that are espoused by people who also claim that the people in power are lizards.

The "truth" movement distracts people from the real problems that they should be studying. Instead of finding out junk about 911 that may or may not be true why don't people find out about capitalism and it's faults which are solid facts.
I think it's hard to prove at this point personally. With me I don't claim to know what happened on 9/11 but I don't believe the people who are telling me it was AlQida because they've lied about everything else. Why didn't Bush start an investigation right away like they did with Pearl Harbor and JFK? And it is out there that the Bush and Binladin's families do have a history such as with BCCI. [/b]

Anybody who believes in the government lie about what happened on 9-11, and not in the truth movement is a slave, a total slave. Enslaved by the US government, and the dogmatic leftists out there from http://www.zmag.com and http://www.counterpunch.org http://www.commondreams.org and http://www.rwor.org (Bob Avakian's Party site).

By the way these dogmatic-leftists think that just because the 9-11 truth movement is capitalist, and libertarian, that we shouldn't believe in them !!

Oh really?

The US government is capitalist too, so why should we buy the US government story about 9-11 and about every thing else?


Besides more smoking guns and hints point out to 9-11 inside job, than 9-11 done by the bad boy Bin Laden (Who is dead by the way, died in 2001)

Think for yourselves, question the authorities

marxist_god

[Tatarin]

With me I don't claim to know what happened on 9/11 but I don't believe the people who are telling me it was AlQida because they've lied about everything else.

Which brings you to the proof that the "truth movement" supposedly have. Why has that "proof" not been disected by all the scientists everywhere in the world? Why did they come to the same conclusion? Are they in the conspiracy too?


Anybody who believes in the government lie about what happened on 9-11, and not in the truth movement is a slave, a total slave.

And the truth movement of course speaks the truth every time they open their mouths? Maybe that is the reason Loose Change was remade 3 times?

All humans on both the right and the left may lie (and lie a lot), but that doesn't mean that they will lie in all situations. So your friend is a capitalist? The one you grew up with? Is he, then, lying in all cases at all times?


Enslaved by the US government, and the dogmatic leftists out there from http://www.zmag.com and http://www.counterpunch.org http://www.commondreams.org and http://www.rwor.org (Bob Avakian's Party site).

Bring us concrete proof then.


By the way these dogmatic-leftists think that just because the 9-11 truth movement is capitalist, and libertarian, that we shouldn't believe in them !!

Because if there is a conspiracy, then there is nothing really wrong with capitalism itself. It is those who control (the NWO) who is doing all these wars, poverty, drugs, gangs etc. In other words, we're not living in real capitalism! Just like there never were a real communism!


The US government is capitalist too, so why should we buy the US government story about 9-11 and about every thing else?

Because the physical events on 9/11 has nothing to do with capitalism. Just like the climate on Mars doesn't have anything to do with communism. I agree that you can not trust them, but that doesn't mean that they are lying in everything else.

After all, they did lay out what happened on 9/11. They even discussed conspiracy theories on the TV. Why would they do that? Why broadcast to potentially millions of people who can wake up about the truth? Compare that to interviews with tru communists. Have you ever heard them debating over what communism really is? Communism is dangerous. Conspiracy theories are not. It's that simple.


Besides more smoking guns and hints point out to 9-11 inside job, than 9-11 done by the bad boy Bin Laden

Like what? Bombs in the buildings? The never ending debate over Steven Jones's sulphur which allegedly comes from ground zero (which by the way was sent to him by mail)? The argument that the WTC was the first ever to collapse from fire? The hole in the Pentagon?

I'm sorry, they're all bunk.


(Who is dead by the way, died in 2001)

You of course have proof of this, ready to be peer reviewed? Ready to be tracked down and found?


Think for yourselves, question the authorities

We are. That's why we're here.

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 06:59 am
After all, they did lay out what happened on 9/11. They even discussed conspiracy theories on the TV. Why would they do that? Why broadcast to potentially millions of people who can wake up about the truth? Compare that to interviews with true communists. Have you ever heard them debating over what communism really is? Communism is dangerous. Conspiracy theories are not. It's that simple.


GREAT QUOTE. Fuck, I should put that as a sig.

I mean you never hear real communists on U.S. TV talking about the subject and letting people know about their views and stuff on what communism (or revolutionary leftist) BUT we've seen U.S. TV interview the conspiracy theorists and they've let them talk about their views (point to point). Hell, U.S. TV even made and showed documentaries about the nazi movement in the U.S. (showing them in negative light but they did allow them a forum to get their point across).

They would never make a documentary that explains WHAT communism is and ASKING THE QUESTION if the Soviet Union, China, etc were socialist. In fact in every U.S. documentary, when referring to U.S.S.R. and China, they refer to them as "communist states" and I think everyone in this forum knows whats wrong with that statement.

[counterblast]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 03:22 am
Think for yourselves, question the authorities
Think for yourself, don't let lame conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones think for you.

We don't believe in far-fetched 9/11 myths for the same reasons we don't believe in Santa Claus or God. The evidence is just not there.


http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...aw/1227842.html (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html)

[Faux Real]

By the way these dogmatic-leftists think that just because the 9-11 truth movement is capitalist, and libertarian, that we shouldn't believe in them !!
These "dogmatic-leftists" realize that whoever did it doesn't matter and the repercussions are the far more important thing to deal with right now.

Whoever perpetrated it
a) those evil Islamic terrorists did it
or
b) teh inside job!!11

Either way, the root cause of these scenarios is the effect of imperial capitalism, which communists and anarchists alike aim to abolish.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 06:59 am

With me I don't claim to know what happened on 9/11 but I don't believe the people who are telling me it was AlQida because they've lied about everything else.

Which brings you to the proof that the "truth movement" supposedly have. Why has that "proof" not been disected by all the scientists everywhere in the world? Why did they come to the same conclusion? Are they in the conspiracy too?


Anybody who believes in the government lie about what happened on 9-11, and not in the truth movement is a slave, a total slave.

And the truth movement of course speaks the truth every time they open their mouths? Maybe that is the reason Loose Change was remade 3 times?

All humans on both the right and the left may lie (and lie a lot), but that doesn't mean that they will lie in all situations. So your friend is a capitalist? The one you grew up with? Is he, then, lying in all cases at all times?


Enslaved by the US government, and the dogmatic leftists out there from http://www.zmag.com and http://www.counterpunch.org http://www.commondreams.org and http://www.rwor.org (Bob Avakian's Party site).

Bring us concrete proof then.


By the way these dogmatic-leftists think that just because the 9-11 truth movement is capitalist, and libertarian, that we shouldn't believe in them !!

Because if there is a conspiracy, then there is nothing really wrong with capitalism itself. It is those who control (the NWO) who is doing all these wars, poverty, drugs, gangs etc. In other words, we're not living in real capitalism! Just like there never were a real communism!


The US government is capitalist too, so why should we buy the US government story about 9-11 and about every thing else?

Because the physical events on 9/11 has nothing to do with capitalism. Just like the climate on Mars doesn't have anything to do with communism. I agree that you can not trust them, but that doesn't mean that they are lying in everything else.

After all, they did lay out what happened on 9/11. They even discussed conspiracy theories on the TV. Why would they do that? Why broadcast to potentially millions of people who can wake up about the truth? Compare that to interviews with tru communists. Have you ever heard them debating over what communism really is? Communism is dangerous. Conspiracy theories are not. It's that simple.


Besides more smoking guns and hints point out to 9-11 inside job, than 9-11 done by the bad boy Bin Laden

Like what? Bombs in the buildings? The never ending debate over Steven Jones's sulphur which allegedly comes from ground zero (which by the way was sent to him by mail)? The argument that the WTC was the first ever to collapse from fire? The hole in the Pentagon?

I'm sorry, they're all bunk.


(Who is dead by the way, died in 2001)

You of course have proof of this, ready to be peer reviewed? Ready to be tracked down and found?


Think for yourselves, question the authorities

We are. That's why we're here.


why should we buy the Bush lies and US government story about 9-11 and about every thing else?

marxist_god

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by counterblast+December 09, 2007 09:37 am--> (counterblast @ December 09, 2007 09:37 am)
[email protected] 09, 2007 03:22 am
Think for yourselves, question the authorities
Think for yourself, don't let lame conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones think for you.

We don't believe in far-fetched 9/11 myths for the same reasons we don't believe in Santa Claus or God. The evidence is just not there.


http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...aw/1227842.html (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html) [/b]

Popular Mechanics is a capitalist magazine, like Muscle and Fitness magazine. Don't rely on magazines to get info and knowledge, relly on real scientific data about 9-11 like http://www.911blogger.com Do you know why i think that lots of leftists out there hate to say that 9-11 is inside job? coz then the US government would kill them

marxist_god

[bootleg42]

marxist_god..............are you a kid?????

Ok, then answer these questions:

1. What is materialism?

2. What is dialectical materialism?

3. Give some examples (of your own) of these terms.

4. From where did Marx get the idea of dialectical materialism (or which philosopher did he borrow the idea from and then turned that idea "on it's head")???

The reason I ask these question is for a reason. Please answer without copying and pasting because I'll know.

[Tatarin]

why should we buy the Bush lies and US government story about 9-11 and about every thing else?

So, you won't even trust them when they say that the year is 2007?

Why should we trust the "truth movement" when they already manipulated what the firemen said inside WTC to suit the conspiracy theory?

Oh, and did you know that Loose Change was originally meant to be a fictional story - an alternate history story about how the government actually blew the buildings up?


Popular Mechanics is a capitalist magazine, like Muscle and Fitness magazine.

Popular Mechanics are not the only magazine. What about the rest of them all over the world? Are they lying too?


Don't rely on magazines to get info and knowledge, relly on real scientific data about 9-11 like http://www.911blogger.com.

Try www.debunking911.com instead. They also have sources to real credible facts, not speculation and unprobable theories.


Do you know why i think that lots of leftists out there hate to say that 9-11 is inside job? coz then the US government would kill them

Oh please. That is redicolous. Alex Jones has already spoken on American Television and said that 9/11 was an inside job - in front of millions of people. He even said where people can go on the internet to read more about how 9/11 was an inside job.

Can you tell me why the government ever would allow that? Why would they allow millions of people to find out the truth?

Maybe they show that on television because they are fully aware that there never was an inside job, and therefore there is no proof of such. The government are safe from presecution, that is why they allow it.

That is also the reason why communism - socialism, anarchism, stalinism, trotskyism, marxism-leninism, marxism, engelsism, che guevaraism, chavezism (hell, even anarcho-primitivism) and all the other millions radical leftist political beliefs are never discussed. Why? Because that is dangerous for the government and the corporations. Why? Because if people realized how the capitalist system works, they would no longer accept living in this slavery.

So, why are leftists against such conspiracies? Because there is no evidence for the conspiracy. And it will give the government all the reason to not only accuse all the left of being pro-Stalin, but also pro-conspiracy theory/ies.

Also, ask yourself how we can know Watergate, or the US support of tyrannical governments such as Chile under Pinochette. After all, they are factual events, not theories (i.e., there is no Watergate conspiracy theory, it really happened).

So sure, they can kill people, but to kill them for thinking the end is near is unnecessary, costly and people would find out.

And one final not. Why is it that so many people come out and talk about UFOs and how they built them, or worked at Area 51, but not one comes forward to talk about their involvement on 9/11?

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 11:19 pm

why should we buy the Bush lies and US government story about 9-11 and about every thing else?

So, you won't even trust them when they say that the year is 2007?

Why should we trust the "truth movement" when they already manipulated what the firemen said inside WTC to suit the conspiracy theory?

Oh, and did you know that Loose Change was originally meant to be a fictional story - an alternate history story about how the government actually blew the buildings up?


Popular Mechanics is a capitalist magazine, like Muscle and Fitness magazine.

Popular Mechanics are not the only magazine. What about the rest of them all over the world? Are they lying too?


Don't rely on magazines to get info and knowledge, relly on real scientific data about 9-11 like http://www.911blogger.com.

Try www.debunking911.com instead. They also have sources to real credible facts, not speculation and unprobable theories.


Do you know why i think that lots of leftists out there hate to say that 9-11 is inside job? coz then the US government would kill them

Oh please. That is redicolous. Alex Jones has already spoken on American Television and said that 9/11 was an inside job - in front of millions of people. He even said where people can go on the internet to read more about how 9/11 was an inside job.

Can you tell me why the government ever would allow that? Why would they allow millions of people to find out the truth?

Maybe they show that on television because they are fully aware that there never was an inside job, and therefore there is no proof of such. The government are safe from presecution, that is why they allow it.

That is also the reason why communism - socialism, anarchism, stalinism, trotskyism, marxism-leninism, marxism, engelsism, che guevaraism, chavezism (hell, even anarcho-primitivism) and all the other millions radical leftist political beliefs are never discussed. Why? Because that is dangerous for the government and the corporations. Why? Because if people realized how the capitalist system works, they would no longer accept living in this slavery.

So, why are leftists against such conspiracies? Because there is no evidence for the conspiracy. And it will give the government all the reason to not only accuse all the left of being pro-Stalin, but also pro-conspiracy theory/ies.

Also, ask yourself how we can know Watergate, or the US support of tyrannical governments such as Chile under Pinochette. After all, they are factual events, not theories (i.e., there is no Watergate conspiracy theory, it really happened).

So sure, they can kill people, but to kill them for thinking the end is near is unnecessary, costly and people would find out.

And one final not. Why is it that so many people come out and talk about UFOs and how they built them, or worked at Area 51, but not one comes forward to talk about their involvement on 9/11?

Why do u believe a lot more in the US official 9-11 argument than in the 9-11 inside job theory? if you are a rational human being, you would be more compelled to believe in the 9-11 truth movement's inside job argument than in the US gov. lie. You know it was a lie, you just want to win this argument

marxist_god

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by marxist_god+December 10, 2007 01:07 am--> (marxist_god @ December 10, 2007 01:07 am)
[email protected] 09, 2007 11:19 pm

why should we buy the Bush lies and US government story about 9-11 and about every thing else?

So, you won't even trust them when they say that the year is 2007?

Why should we trust the "truth movement" when they already manipulated what the firemen said inside WTC to suit the conspiracy theory?

Oh, and did you know that Loose Change was originally meant to be a fictional story - an alternate history story about how the government actually blew the buildings up?


Popular Mechanics is a capitalist magazine, like Muscle and Fitness magazine.

Popular Mechanics are not the only magazine. What about the rest of them all over the world? Are they lying too?


Don't rely on magazines to get info and knowledge, relly on real scientific data about 9-11 like http://www.911blogger.com.

Try www.debunking911.com instead. They also have sources to real credible facts, not speculation and unprobable theories.


Do you know why i think that lots of leftists out there hate to say that 9-11 is inside job? coz then the US government would kill them

Oh please. That is redicolous. Alex Jones has already spoken on American Television and said that 9/11 was an inside job - in front of millions of people. He even said where people can go on the internet to read more about how 9/11 was an inside job.

Can you tell me why the government ever would allow that? Why would they allow millions of people to find out the truth?

Maybe they show that on television because they are fully aware that there never was an inside job, and therefore there is no proof of such. The government are safe from presecution, that is why they allow it.

That is also the reason why communism - socialism, anarchism, stalinism, trotskyism, marxism-leninism, marxism, engelsism, che guevaraism, chavezism (hell, even anarcho-primitivism) and all the other millions radical leftist political beliefs are never discussed. Why? Because that is dangerous for the government and the corporations. Why? Because if people realized how the capitalist system works, they would no longer accept living in this slavery.

So, why are leftists against such conspiracies? Because there is no evidence for the conspiracy. And it will give the government all the reason to not only accuse all the left of being pro-Stalin, but also pro-conspiracy theory/ies.

Also, ask yourself how we can know Watergate, or the US support of tyrannical governments such as Chile under Pinochette. After all, they are factual events, not theories (i.e., there is no Watergate conspiracy theory, it really happened).

So sure, they can kill people, but to kill them for thinking the end is near is unnecessary, costly and people would find out.

And one final not. Why is it that so many people come out and talk about UFOs and how they built them, or worked at Area 51, but not one comes forward to talk about their involvement on 9/11?

Why do u believe a lot more in the US official 9-11 argument than in the 9-11 inside job theory? if you are a rational human being, you would be more compelled to believe in the 9-11 truth movement's inside job argument than in the US gov. lie. You know it was a lie, you just want to win this argument

marxist_god [/b]
Video: Venezuela's Chavez says Bush planned 9/11 attacks

RAW STORY
Published: Wednesday September 13, 2006




Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez says that the Bush Administration may have "planned and carried out" the 9/11 attacks, reports CNN international.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dnb9q-PWePM

In a recent speech Chavez said:

The hypothesis that is gaining strength, which was said on television last night, and which could soon blow up, was that it was the same U.S. imperial power that planned and carried out this terrible terrorist attack, or act, against its own people and against citizens all over the world.







TRANCRIPT

CLANCY: All right, turning now to Latin America. Well it's nothing new to say that the president of Venezuela is no friend of the United States, particularly the Bush administration. Hugo Chavez leading a crusade against U.S. dominance of Latin America for the past several years. Just after the fifth anniversary of the September 11th attacks, well, he's added a bit of fuel to the fire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUGO CHAVEZ, VENEZUELAN PRES. (through translator): The hypothesis that is gaining strength, which was said on television last night, and which could soon blow up, was that it was the same U.S. imperial power that planned and carried out this terrible terrorist attack, or act, against its own people and against citizens all over the world. Why? To justify the aggression that was immediately unleashed on Afghanistan, on Iraq and the threats against all of us, against Venezuela, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 09:29 pm
marxist_god..............are you a kid?????

Ok, then answer these questions:

1. What is materialism?

2. What is dialectical materialism?

3. Give some examples (of your own) of these terms.

4. From where did Marx get the idea of dialectical materialism (or which philosopher did he borrow the idea from and then turned that idea "on it's head")???

The reason I ask these question is for a reason. Please answer without copying and pasting because I'll know.
marxist_god, can you answer these questions please????? Very basic questions they are^^^

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by bootleg42+December 10, 2007 02:32 am--> (bootleg42 @ December 10, 2007 02:32 am)
[email protected] 09, 2007 09:29 pm
marxist_god..............are you a kid?????

Ok, then answer these questions:

1. What is materialism?

2. What is dialectical materialism?

3. Give some examples (of your own) of these terms.

4. From where did Marx get the idea of dialectical materialism (or which philosopher did he borrow the idea from and then turned that idea "on it's head")???

The reason I ask these question is for a reason. Please answer without copying and pasting because I'll know.
marxist_god, can you answer these questions please????? Very basic questions they are^^^ [/b]


So you believe Chavez is lying too? How can you be so sure that US government is telling us the truth about 9-11? Because the scientists of the 9-11 official commission are a lot more trustable than the "loonies" of the 9-11 truth movement?

marxist_god

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by bootleg42+December 10, 2007 02:32 am--> (bootleg42 @ December 10, 2007 02:32 am)
[email protected] 09, 2007 09:29 pm
marxist_god..............are you a kid?????

Ok, then answer these questions:

1. What is materialism?

2. What is dialectical materialism?

3. Give some examples (of your own) of these terms.

4. From where did Marx get the idea of dialectical materialism (or which philosopher did he borrow the idea from and then turned that idea "on it's head")???

The reason I ask these question is for a reason. Please answer without copying and pasting because I'll know.
marxist_god, can you answer these questions please????? Very basic questions they are^^^ [/b]


Ask Rosa Litchensen what is dialetical materialism hahaha

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by marxist_god+December 10, 2007 02:38 am--> (marxist_god @ December 10, 2007 02:38 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 02:32 am

[email protected] 09, 2007 09:29 pm
marxist_god..............are you a kid?????

Ok, then answer these questions:

1. What is materialism?

2. What is dialectical materialism?

3. Give some examples (of your own) of these terms.

4. From where did Marx get the idea of dialectical materialism (or which philosopher did he borrow the idea from and then turned that idea "on it's head")???

The reason I ask these question is for a reason. Please answer without copying and pasting because I'll know.
marxist_god, can you answer these questions please????? Very basic questions they are^^^


So you believe Chavez is lying too? How can you be so sure that US government is telling us the truth about 9-11? Because the scientists of the 9-11 official commission are a lot more trustable than the "loonies" of the 9-11 truth movement?

marxist_god [/b]
I'm not talking about the 9-11 conspiracy now. I just wanted you to answer those very basic question. With your name being "marxist_god", I would think those question would be the easiest of them all. So please answer:

1. What is materialism?

2. What is dialectical materialism?

3. Give some examples (of your own) of these terms.

4. From where did Marx get the idea of dialectical materialism (or which philosopher did he borrow the idea from and then turned that idea "on it's head")???

[Tatarin]

Why do u believe a lot more in the US official 9-11 argument than in the 9-11 inside job theory?

Because they have proof. The "truth movement" has pieces that they have edited to fit their argument, or right out lied.


if you are a rational human being, you would be more compelled to believe in the 9-11 truth movement's inside job argument than in the US gov. lie.

I am a rational human being. What do rational human beings do? They read or investigate the truth. In this case, the truth is that there was no inside job. Or do you believe that only the "911 truth movement" are rational human beings?


You know it was a lie, you just want to win this argument

If you are going to point fingers and accuse people of being irrational, then be rational yourself and bring us irrefutable scientific proof of the supposed inside job.

Rational is factual events that was investigated and laid out for all humans to see and to accept or refute them. Irrational are people trying to persuade others to believe in a fictional story to fit their arguments.


Video: Venezuela's Chavez says Bush planned 9/11 attacks

Which of course makes it so, right?


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUGO CHAVEZ, VENEZUELAN PRES. (through translator): The hypothesis that is gaining strength, which was said on television last night, and which could soon blow up, was that it was the same U.S. imperial power that planned and carried out this terrible terrorist attack, or act, against its own people and against citizens all over the world. Why? To justify the aggression that was immediately unleashed on Afghanistan, on Iraq and the threats against all of us, against Venezuela, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Again - so what? He is a good president, and he can believe in whatever he wants. This doesn't prove that 9/11 was an inside job. Charlie Sheen and Martin Sheen, both famous movie stars, also "questions" the official story. Does that mean that they are right?


So you believe Chavez is lying too?

What argument is this? Certainly the US government can't be trusted in it's politics - after all, they did invade other countries, and how many people have they killed since the end of the second world war - all for profit. The police is bad, social security is bad, working conditions are bad. Much is bad in the US. I don't deny that.

However, the investigation into 9/11 has nothing to do with working conditions or police brutality. It has to do with scientifical facts of how the buildings were damaged and how they broke down. It is something that happened in the real world. It has nothing to do with beliefs or theories. It can be tested by any other scientist in the world to confirm the events.

And if it can it must also mean that other scientists have confirmed it, and either been silenced or simply didn't find any inside job. Are those scientists lying too?

So, where does it leave Chavez? It leaves him with a copy of Loose Change. Fine, he believes that the US government did 9/11. Has he any proof? Does he know that the US government did it? Has he even read the official story, or has he spent an hour watching Loose Change and used it's argument to attack the US verbally?


How can you be so sure that US government is telling us the truth about 9-11?

Because for the very fact that it wasn't the government that did the investigation - it was scientists outside the White House and all other bureaucratic institutions. Which also means that they must have directly lied, and the lie must be so complicated that no other scientist in the rest of the world can disprove the final conclusion.

And for the very fact that, firstly (as I said above), that the investigation is official and open to anyone to read and criticize, debunk and disprove, and for the second fact that the official story doesn't stray from rationale or reality. Oh, and it was made by engineers and scientists.

The "911 truth movement" however, consists of teenagers, ordinary people who see ghosts not fog, and people just seeking attention (for their books, like Steven Jones).


Because the scientists of the 9-11 official commission are a lot more trustable than the "loonies" of the 9-11 truth movement?

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: Not because they are scientists, but because they have produced proof of every step of what happened. The "911 truth movement" has not.

I understand why some people can get hooked by conspiracies. They are exciting. They are something of a religion - some evil group that you can't toutch. An answer to why there is so much evil in this world - exactly where religion talks about a good god that loves all humans (or well, all living things), yet allows evil to endure, and to be in great quantities compared to good.

It proves an answer to that something is wrong with the world - there just can't be this much evil and immorality. Poverty, hunger, greed, death, war - where do they all come from? How come people are evil? Why do they commit crimes? In a just and good [capitalist] society, everyone would be happy - run their own business and live justly on their own land. Why do people become evil?

It must be someone doing this to us, right?

To talk about the real, factual truth, then, becomes impossible - since truth, or rather facts, comes from the very institutions people simply doesn't like. They come from the well paid scientist. Truth also contains long and detailed formulas and schemes, with texts about physical, chemical and biological realities that sometimes requires the reader to understand what all the text is about (i.e., how the physics works when a building like the WTC collapses).

To the publish that in the news would probably take hours to explain, and thus the simple answer is said.

After all, who would have thought that the earth circles the sun - not the other way around? But it looks like the sun is coming up and going down - the evidence for the visible facts are irrefutable!

Who would have thought that the truth in that case is much more complex - the ground we are standing on are part of a huge ball of rocks, some kind of force is pushing us down - the rock is flying around the sun, and it's own force is making this rock do so. And this is only the surface of it all - there are thousands of other things that makes this world "go around".

So, the bottom line - show us irrefutable evidence.

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 02:56 am

I'm not talking about the 9-11 conspiracy now. I just wanted you to answer those very basic question. With your name being "marxist_god", I would think those question would be the easiest of them all. So please answer:

1. What is materialism?

2. What is dialectical materialism?

3. Give some examples (of your own) of these terms.

4. From where did Marx get the idea of dialectical materialism (or which philosopher did he borrow the idea from and then turned that idea "on it's head")???
marxist_god, you haven't tried to answer these questions yet. Please do.^^^

[Philosophical Materialist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 08:41 pm
Popular Mechanics is a capitalist magazine, like Muscle and Fitness magazine. Don't rely on magazines to get info and knowledge, relly on real scientific data about 9-11 like http://www.911blogger.com Do you know why i think that lots of leftists out there hate to say that 9-11 is inside job? coz then the US government would kill them

marxist_god
Many conspiracy theorists are capitalists too. There is a thriving conspiracy theory industry in books, DVDs, apparel, speaking tours, from the usual suspects (Alex Jones, David Ray Griffin, Dylan Avery etc). They have a product to sell and they target people who tend to be young, and are undereducated. It's part of a wider strain of anti-intellectualism in public life.

These types of snake oil salesman rely on similar techniques to practitioners of pseudomedicine, "faith healing", new age bullshit, "psychics", and other fraudsters.

Material conditions gave rise to the Twoof Movement: a sense of disenfranchisement amongst many people, and a thriving already-existing conspiracy theory industry, coupled with the usefulness of new forms of media. It's a money-making exercise. The conspiracy theorists sell bullshit stories to gain money and prestige, and a following from those who don't know better. It's little wonder that the Twoof Movement has attracted megalomaniacs, reactionaries, and the unhinged.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by Philosophical Materialist+December 10, 2007 02:10 pm--> (Philosophical Materialist @ December 10, 2007 02:10 pm)
[email protected] 09, 2007 08:41 pm
Popular Mechanics is a capitalist magazine, like Muscle and Fitness magazine. Don't rely on magazines to get info and knowledge, relly on real scientific data about 9-11 like http://www.911blogger.com Do you know why i think that lots of leftists out there hate to say that 9-11 is inside job? coz then the US government would kill them

marxist_god
Many conspiracy theorists are capitalists too. There is a thriving conspiracy theory industry in books, DVDs, apparel, speaking tours, from the usual suspects (Alex Jones, David Ray Griffin, Dylan Avery etc). They have a product to sell and they target people who tend to be young, and are undereducated. It's part of a wider strain of anti-intellectualism in public life.

These types of snake oil salesman rely on similar techniques to practitioners of pseudomedicine, "faith healing", new age bullshit, "psychics", and other fraudsters.

Material conditions gave rise to the Twoof Movement: a sense of disenfranchisement amongst many people, and a thriving already-existing conspiracy theory industry, coupled with the usefulness of new forms of media. It's a money-making exercise. The conspiracy theorists sell bullshit stories to gain money and prestige, and a following from those who don't know better. It's little wonder that the Twoof Movement has attracted megalomaniacs, reactionaries, and the unhinged. [/b]

Chavez and I claim that 9-11 was an inside job and i am not a conspiracy theorist, and i am not crazy, nor Chavez is a follower of David Icke

The left has problems and the problem of the left is a dogmatic world view, with that dogmatic world view of yours, you will never get any where. It is not a scientific world view, but a dogmatic, pragmatic view, a cultist view. Which views the world according to what Bob Avakian, Alexander Cockburn or some other pundits of the left claims. I don't follow what Bob Avakian, or Cockburn says, not even what Marx said but what evidence says

marxist_god

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by bootleg42+December 10, 2007 01:12 pm--> (bootleg42 @ December 10, 2007 01:12 pm)
[email protected] 10, 2007 02:56 am

I'm not talking about the 9-11 conspiracy now. I just wanted you to answer those very basic question. With your name being "marxist_god", I would think those question would be the easiest of them all. So please answer:

1. What is materialism?

2. What is dialectical materialism?

3. Give some examples (of your own) of these terms.

4. From where did Marx get the idea of dialectical materialism (or which philosopher did he borrow the idea from and then turned that idea "on it's head")???
marxist_god, you haven't tried to answer these questions yet. Please do.^^^ [/b]
You can do yourself a big favor in trying to answer these questions^^^^. This way I can get some evidence of my own.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by bootleg42+December 10, 2007 04:58 pm--> (bootleg42 @ December 10, 2007 04:58 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 01:12 pm

[email protected] 10, 2007 02:56 am

I'm not talking about the 9-11 conspiracy now. I just wanted you to answer those very basic question. With your name being "marxist_god", I would think those question would be the easiest of them all. So please answer:

1. What is materialism?

2. What is dialectical materialism?

3. Give some examples (of your own) of these terms.

4. From where did Marx get the idea of dialectical materialism (or which philosopher did he borrow the idea from and then turned that idea "on it's head")???
marxist_god, you haven't tried to answer these questions yet. Please do.^^^
You can do yourself a big favor in trying to answer these questions^^^^. This way I can get some evidence of my own. [/b]

Who do you believe more? Chavez's version about 9-11, or the US government official story about 9-11

And i won't answer what is dialetic materialism, I just wanna debate 9-11

marxist_god

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by marxist_god+December 10, 2007 07:09 pm--> (marxist_god @ December 10, 2007 07:09 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 04:58 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 01:12 pm

[email protected] 10, 2007 02:56 am

I'm not talking about the 9-11 conspiracy now. I just wanted you to answer those very basic question. With your name being "marxist_god", I would think those question would be the easiest of them all. So please answer:

1. What is materialism?

2. What is dialectical materialism?

3. Give some examples (of your own) of these terms.

4. From where did Marx get the idea of dialectical materialism (or which philosopher did he borrow the idea from and then turned that idea "on it's head")???
marxist_god, you haven't tried to answer these questions yet. Please do.^^^
You can do yourself a big favor in trying to answer these questions^^^^. This way I can get some evidence of my own.

Who do you believe more? Chavez's version about 9-11, or the US government official story about 9-11

And i won't answer what is dialetic materialism, I just wanna debate 9-11

marxist_god [/b]
The previous boss of the German security services also suspects the US government.

So what?

Is it important who'd done that?

[Guerrilla22]

The thing about these conspiracy theory nuts is that they'll stand by their theoris no matter how illogical they are. I was talking to one not all that long ago at a aprty who seemed to believe that Timothy McVeigh was a government agent, who bombed the Oklahoma City Federal building as part of a "black op" I told him that his theory made no fucking sense what so ever and explained to him why, but he was insistent, despite a complete lack of rationale.

[Philosophical Materialist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 07:09 pm
Who do you believe more? Chavez's version about 9-11, or the US government official story about 9-11

And i won't answer what is dialetic materialism, I just wanna debate 9-11

marxist_god
Two can play at that game. Do you believe David Duke's version about 9/11, or the Noam Chomsky version?

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by Philosophical Materialist+December 10, 2007 08:10 pm--> (Philosophical Materialist @ December 10, 2007 08:10 pm)
[email protected] 10, 2007 07:09 pm
Who do you believe more? Chavez's version about 9-11, or the US government official story about 9-11

And i won't answer what is dialetic materialism, I just wanna debate 9-11

marxist_god
Two can play at that game. Do you believe David Duke's version about 9/11, or the Noam Chomsky version? [/b]


I believe David Duke a lot more than Chomsky on 9-11. Chomsky is not God-Ordained btw.

Now answer my question:

Who would you rather believe? Chavez version about 9-11? or US gov. about 9-11?

You see you guys are dodging this question about Chavez's version of 9-11 vs. the US' gov. version about 9-11

marxist_god

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 07:59 pm
The thing about these conspiracy theory nuts is that they'll stand by their theoris no matter how illogical they are. I was talking to one not all that long ago at a aprty who seemed to believe that Timothy McVeigh was a government agent, who bombed the Oklahoma City Federal building as part of a "black op" I told him that his theory made no fucking sense what so ever and explained to him why, but he was insistent, despite a complete lack of rationale.

By the way what physical evidence do you have (other than CNN and FOX) that 9-11 was done by Al Qaeda?

Or better: What physical-empirical evidence and physical proof do u have that Al Qaeda did 9-11 and what physical-empirical, material evidence do you have about Al Qaeda's existance?

I have physical evidence of Bush, coz other people that i trust, have seen Bush, like celebrities, stars, and i have a lot of physical evidence about a lot of things in this world. I haven't been to Spain, but i have physical evidence of Spain, however all the evidence we have from Al Qaeda and 9-11 done by "islamic terrorists" come from the mouth of CNN and FOX

Why do you guys trust CNN and FOX so much?

marxist_god

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 07:59 pm
The thing about these conspiracy theory nuts is that they'll stand by their theoris no matter how illogical they are. I was talking to one not all that long ago at a aprty who seemed to believe that Timothy McVeigh was a government agent, who bombed the Oklahoma City Federal building as part of a "black op" I told him that his theory made no fucking sense what so ever and explained to him why, but he was insistent, despite a complete lack of rationale.

By the way what physical evidence do you have (other than CNN and FOX) that 9-11 was done by Al Qaeda?

Or better: What physical-empirical evidence and physical proof do u have that Al Qaeda did 9-11 and what physical-empirical, material evidence do you have about Al Qaeda's existance?

I have physical evidence of Bush, coz other people that i trust, have seen Bush, like celebrities, stars, and i have a lot of physical evidence about a lot of things in this world. I haven't been to Spain, but i have physical evidence of Spain, however all the evidence we have from Al Qaeda and 9-11 done by "islamic terrorists" come from the mouth of CNN and FOX

Why do you guys trust CNN and FOX so much?

marxist_god

[Tatarin]

Chavez and I claim that 9-11 was an inside job and i am not a conspiracy theorist, and i am not crazy, nor Chavez is a follower of David Icke

Once again - so what? Do you or Chavez have any evidence to support your conspiracy theory? Or do you believe in 9/11 just like people believed that the earth was flat?


It is not a scientific world view, but a dogmatic, pragmatic view, a cultist view.

Redicolous. You are willing to believe in an unscientific theory, a theory that has been refuted numerous times by scientists and engineers - not by what they say, but by documented facts. And you call us irrational?


Which views the world according to what Bob Avakian, Alexander Cockburn or some other pundits of the left claims.

Then you are very ignorant. Almost no one on this forum supports Bob Avakian, you however are ready to say anything to defend your fairy tale.


I don't follow what Bob Avakian, or Cockburn says, not even what Marx said but what evidence says

Evidence says the "truth movement" manipulated facts about what firemen said inside the WTC. Evidence that Dylan Avery planned a fictional story about how the US government planned the 9/11 attacks - that just happened to become a documentary. Evidence that the conspiracy theory is being sold as a business.


Who do you believe more? Chavez's version about 9-11, or the US government official story about 9-11

Are you perhaps taking drugs before you post on this thread? Maybe you drink a lot before you post here? You seem to ignore everything I've said, and what everybody else says.

Tell me, what version does Chavez have? Does he have documented irrefutable evidence that there was an inside job? Would you believe Chavez if he said that he was the ressurected Jesus? Or that there is intelligent life on Mars? Just by him saying so?


I believe David Duke a lot more than Chomsky on 9-11. Chomsky is not God-Ordained btw.

You believe in what a racist says than a socialist? And then you tell me to believe Chavez instead of evidence? That says a lot about your politics.


Who would you rather believe? Chavez version about 9-11? or US gov. about 9-11?

You are very stupid if you divide the question like that. And I mean stupid. You can not say that everyone who doesn't believe in your little fairy tale loves the US government.

If Chavez has evidence about 9/11, then please, where is it? How many times do I have to ask?

The Commission provided evidence about how the attacks were done. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IF I LIKE THE US GOVERNMENT OR NOT. Do you understand this? Do you understand that the evidence on 9/11 is not political?

Because if you don't understand that, it is pointless to debate with you.


You see you guys are dodging this question about Chavez's version of 9-11 vs. the US' gov. version about 9-11

Point out what part of the official story that is false. And give us Chavez's version or story of what happened. Not what he believes, but the whole text - how it was planned, where they put the bombs, physical and chemical evidence and so on.


By the way what physical evidence do you have (other than CNN and FOX) that 9-11 was done by Al Qaeda?

Maybe the official version of the story, that was not made by CNN or/and FOX? What evidence do you have? You are argumenting back and forth, yet you have not provided any evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.


I have physical evidence of Bush, coz other people that i trust, have seen Bush, like celebrities, stars, and i have a lot of physical evidence about a lot of things in this world.

Please post your evidence then. Or do you think people will believe you simply because you say so?


I haven't been to Spain, but i have physical evidence of Spain, however all the evidence we have from Al Qaeda and 9-11 done by "islamic terrorists" come from the mouth of CNN and FOX.

Sure. Give us the evidence. Or perhaps you think that there was no Taliban in Afghanistan?


Why do you guys trust CNN and FOX so much?

I think you should answer - since you are on a communist forum (btw, do you know what communism is?) - of why you believe the racist David Duke.

Secondly, do you believe that CNN and FOX created the official story about 9/11?

You have time and again only accused anyone who doesn't believe in your fairy tale of loving the US government, CNN and FOX. If you want a serious discussion about why the "truth movement" is wrong, then you better start reading what people post. And don't forget the proof next time.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 11:09 pm

Chavez and I claim that 9-11 was an inside job and i am not a conspiracy theorist, and i am not crazy, nor Chavez is a follower of David Icke

Once again - so what? Do you or Chavez have any evidence to support your conspiracy theory? Or do you believe in 9/11 just like people believed that the earth was flat?


It is not a scientific world view, but a dogmatic, pragmatic view, a cultist view.

Redicolous. You are willing to believe in an unscientific theory, a theory that has been refuted numerous times by scientists and engineers - not by what they say, but by documented facts. And you call us irrational?


Which views the world according to what Bob Avakian, Alexander Cockburn or some other pundits of the left claims.

Then you are very ignorant. Almost no one on this forum supports Bob Avakian, you however are ready to say anything to defend your fairy tale.


I don't follow what Bob Avakian, or Cockburn says, not even what Marx said but what evidence says

Evidence says the "truth movement" manipulated facts about what firemen said inside the WTC. Evidence that Dylan Avery planned a fictional story about how the US government planned the 9/11 attacks - that just happened to become a documentary. Evidence that the conspiracy theory is being sold as a business.


Who do you believe more? Chavez's version about 9-11, or the US government official story about 9-11

Are you perhaps taking drugs before you post on this thread? Maybe you drink a lot before you post here? You seem to ignore everything I've said, and what everybody else says.

Tell me, what version does Chavez have? Does he have documented irrefutable evidence that there was an inside job? Would you believe Chavez if he said that he was the ressurected Jesus? Or that there is intelligent life on Mars? Just by him saying so?


I believe David Duke a lot more than Chomsky on 9-11. Chomsky is not God-Ordained btw.

You believe in what a racist says than a socialist? And then you tell me to believe Chavez instead of evidence? That says a lot about your politics.


Who would you rather believe? Chavez version about 9-11? or US gov. about 9-11?

You are very stupid if you divide the question like that. And I mean stupid. You can not say that everyone who doesn't believe in your little fairy tale loves the US government.

If Chavez has evidence about 9/11, then please, where is it? How many times do I have to ask?

The Commission provided evidence about how the attacks were done. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IF I LIKE THE US GOVERNMENT OR NOT. Do you understand this? Do you understand that the evidence on 9/11 is not political?

Because if you don't understand that, it is pointless to debate with you.


You see you guys are dodging this question about Chavez's version of 9-11 vs. the US' gov. version about 9-11

Point out what part of the official story that is false. And give us Chavez's version or story of what happened. Not what he believes, but the whole text - how it was planned, where they put the bombs, physical and chemical evidence and so on.


By the way what physical evidence do you have (other than CNN and FOX) that 9-11 was done by Al Qaeda?

Maybe the official version of the story, that was not made by CNN or/and FOX? What evidence do you have? You are argumenting back and forth, yet you have not provided any evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.


I have physical evidence of Bush, coz other people that i trust, have seen Bush, like celebrities, stars, and i have a lot of physical evidence about a lot of things in this world.

Please post your evidence then. Or do you think people will believe you simply because you say so?


I haven't been to Spain, but i have physical evidence of Spain, however all the evidence we have from Al Qaeda and 9-11 done by "islamic terrorists" come from the mouth of CNN and FOX.

Sure. Give us the evidence. Or perhaps you think that there was no Taliban in Afghanistan?


Why do you guys trust CNN and FOX so much?

I think you should answer - since you are on a communist forum (btw, do you know what communism is?) - of why you believe the racist David Duke.

Secondly, do you believe that CNN and FOX created the official story about 9/11?

You have time and again only accused anyone who doesn't believe in your fairy tale of loving the US government, CNN and FOX. If you want a serious discussion about why the "truth movement" is wrong, then you better start reading what people post. And don't forget the proof next time.

You are totally a slave buying the official 9-11 lie !!

I congratulate you for being a slave

marxist_god

[counterblast]

Originally posted by marxist_god+December 09, 2007 08:41 pm--> (marxist_god @ December 09, 2007 08:41 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 09:37 am

[email protected] 09, 2007 03:22 am
Think for yourselves, question the authorities
Think for yourself, don't let lame conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones think for you.

We don't believe in far-fetched 9/11 myths for the same reasons we don't believe in Santa Claus or God. The evidence is just not there.


http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...aw/1227842.html (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html)

Popular Mechanics is a capitalist magazine, like Muscle and Fitness magazine. Don't rely on magazines to get info and knowledge, relly on real scientific data about 9-11 like http://www.911blogger.com Do you know why i think that lots of leftists out there hate to say that 9-11 is inside job? coz then the US government would kill them

marxist_god [/b]
Are you kidding? REAL scientific evidence? A blog by an anonymous person, who interviews conspiracy theorists and posts YouTube videos?

Please, I've seen more compelling evidence put forth by creationists.

Oh because the government is killing off all those millions of 9/11 theorists at this very moment! :wacko: It's a total coverrup! Just like Roswell!

No, but seriously... the government commits enough murder, and fabricates enough lies on its own, without you espousing sensationalist stories. If anything, taking public attention away from legitimate, undisputable problems (such as the system itself) makes the government more powerful.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by counterblast+December 11, 2007 01:26 am--> (counterblast @ December 11, 2007 01:26 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 08:41 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 09:37 am

[email protected] 09, 2007 03:22 am
Think for yourselves, question the authorities
Think for yourself, don't let lame conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones think for you.

We don't believe in far-fetched 9/11 myths for the same reasons we don't believe in Santa Claus or God. The evidence is just not there.


http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...aw/1227842.html (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html)

Popular Mechanics is a capitalist magazine, like Muscle and Fitness magazine. Don't rely on magazines to get info and knowledge, relly on real scientific data about 9-11 like http://www.911blogger.com Do you know why i think that lots of leftists out there hate to say that 9-11 is inside job? coz then the US government would kill them

marxist_god
Are you kidding? REAL scientific evidence? A blog by an anonymous person, who interviews conspiracy theorists and posts YouTube videos?

Please, I've seen more compelling evidence put forth by creationists.

Oh because the government is killing off all those millions of 9/11 theorists at this very moment! :wacko: It's a total coverrup! Just like Roswell!

No, but seriously... the government commits enough murder, and fabricates enough lies on its own, without you espousing sensationalist stories. If anything, taking public attention away from legitimate, undisputable problems (such as the system itself) makes the government more powerful. [/b]


Why do u believe the US government about what happened on 9-11?

CNN and Wolf Blitz-krieg told us the true on Iraqi WMD-threat

cnn covers britney at rehab as "breaking news" now, as i recall

just coz a bunch of dogmatic, sectarian stalinist-revisionists in this site or in other sites believe in the US government about what happened on 9-11, doesn't mean that we have to

marxist_god

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by counterblast+December 11, 2007 01:26 am--> (counterblast @ December 11, 2007 01:26 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 08:41 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 09:37 am

[email protected] 09, 2007 03:22 am
Think for yourselves, question the authorities
Think for yourself, don't let lame conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones think for you.

We don't believe in far-fetched 9/11 myths for the same reasons we don't believe in Santa Claus or God. The evidence is just not there.


http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...aw/1227842.html (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html)

Popular Mechanics is a capitalist magazine, like Muscle and Fitness magazine. Don't rely on magazines to get info and knowledge, relly on real scientific data about 9-11 like http://www.911blogger.com Do you know why i think that lots of leftists out there hate to say that 9-11 is inside job? coz then the US government would kill them

marxist_god
Are you kidding? REAL scientific evidence? A blog by an anonymous person, who interviews conspiracy theorists and posts YouTube videos?

Please, I've seen more compelling evidence put forth by creationists.

Oh because the government is killing off all those millions of 9/11 theorists at this very moment! :wacko: It's a total coverrup! Just like Roswell!

No, but seriously... the government commits enough murder, and fabricates enough lies on its own, without you espousing sensationalist stories. If anything, taking public attention away from legitimate, undisputable problems (such as the system itself) makes the government more powerful. [/b]


Ok: let's see, you believe more the dogmatic-revisionists of this site, the US government, Alexander Cockburn from www.counterpunch.org, CNN, FOX, etc. than Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro and the 9-11 truth movement


You were not in the site of 9-11 when it happened

You don't have proof of Al Qaeda

You don't have proof of the black boxes

9-11 US gov. story is faulty, and full of contradictions,

etc. etc.


wake up

marxist_god

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by marxist_god+December 10, 2007 07:09 pm--> (marxist_god @ December 10, 2007 07:09 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 04:58 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 01:12 pm

[email protected] 10, 2007 02:56 am

I'm not talking about the 9-11 conspiracy now. I just wanted you to answer those very basic question. With your name being "marxist_god", I would think those question would be the easiest of them all. So please answer:

1. What is materialism?

2. What is dialectical materialism?

3. Give some examples (of your own) of these terms.

4. From where did Marx get the idea of dialectical materialism (or which philosopher did he borrow the idea from and then turned that idea "on it's head")???
marxist_god, you haven't tried to answer these questions yet. Please do.^^^
You can do yourself a big favor in trying to answer these questions^^^^. This way I can get some evidence of my own.

Who do you believe more? Chavez's version about 9-11, or the US government official story about 9-11

And i won't answer what is dialetic materialism, I just wanna debate 9-11

marxist_god [/b]
When I read the part above that's in bold, I already know your a kid who does not know what marxism is nor do you know what communism is.

My suggestion, please read the works of marx before being a communist.

For 9-11, if the U.S. government was behind it, they would need a LOT of people to know about it and make things works. Believe me, the bourgeoisie has "patriots" in it's ranks and if one of those "patriots" found out about such a thing, he or she would have already went public and told everyone about it.

I mean Alexander Litvinenko ratted out Vladimir Putin in saying that he and was behind the Chechnya bombings so someone would have ratted out whatever would have been behind 9-11.

Bottom line, it really doesn't matter who's behind 9-11 because the root cause of all the chaos is capitalism.

Also marxist_god, please know that if you can't answer simple questions like the one I posted for you, it makes you look really bad and not credible around here. So I'll ask again:

1. What is materialism?

2. What is dialectical materialism?

3. Give some examples (of your own) of these terms.

4. From where did Marx get the idea of dialectical materialism (or which philosopher did he borrow the idea from and then turned that idea "on it's head")???

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by bootleg42+December 11, 2007 03:54 am--> (bootleg42 @ December 11, 2007 03:54 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 07:09 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 04:58 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 01:12 pm

[email protected] 10, 2007 02:56 am

I'm not talking about the 9-11 conspiracy now. I just wanted you to answer those very basic question. With your name being "marxist_god", I would think those question would be the easiest of them all. So please answer:

1. What is materialism?

2. What is dialectical materialism?

3. Give some examples (of your own) of these terms.

4. From where did Marx get the idea of dialectical materialism (or which philosopher did he borrow the idea from and then turned that idea "on it's head")???
marxist_god, you haven't tried to answer these questions yet. Please do.^^^
You can do yourself a big favor in trying to answer these questions^^^^. This way I can get some evidence of my own.

Who do you believe more? Chavez's version about 9-11, or the US government official story about 9-11

And i won't answer what is dialetic materialism, I just wanna debate 9-11

marxist_god
When I read the part above that's in bold, I already know your a kid who does not know what marxism is nor do you know what communism is.

My suggestion, please read the works of marx before being a communist.

For 9-11, if the U.S. government was behind it, they would need a LOT of people to know about it and make things works. Believe me, the bourgeoisie has "patriots" in it's ranks and if one of those "patriots" found out about such a thing, he or she would have already went public and told everyone about it.

I mean Alexander Litvinenko ratted out Vladimir Putin in saying that he and was behind the Chechnya bombings so someone would have ratted out whatever would have been behind 9-11.

Bottom line, it really doesn't matter who's behind 9-11 because the root cause of all the chaos is capitalism.

Also marxist_god, please know that if you can't answer simple questions like the one I posted for you, it makes you look really bad and not credible around here. So I'll ask again:

1. What is materialism?

2. What is dialectical materialism?

3. Give some examples (of your own) of these terms.

4. From where did Marx get the idea of dialectical materialism (or which philosopher did he borrow the idea from and then turned that idea "on it's head")??? [/b]


Do you have physical evidence that 9-11 was done by Al Qaeda like US gov. says?

I need some evidence now !!


If you don't have it, i rest my scientific case !!


marxist_god

[Faux Real]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 04:45 pm
You are totally a slave buying the official 9-11 lie !!

I congratulate you for being a slave


just coz a bunch of dogmatic, sectarian stalinist-revisionists in this site or in other sites believe in the US government about what happened on 9-11, doesn't mean that we have to

Ok: let's see, you believe more the dogmatic-revisionists of this site, the US government, Alexander Cockburn from www.counterpunch.org, CNN, FOX, etc. than Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro and the 9-11 truth movement
1. Stop replying to lengthy posts with one-liners.

2. Ironically, accusing of everyone who disagrees with you as a Stalinist "slave" or "dogmatic sectarian/revisionist" rightfully earns you the title of "dogmatic sectarian". Good game.

3. Accusing people as being "revisionist" renders you a Stalinist.

4. You attack anarchists as being utopian, yet you believe in the 9-11 "truther" movement.

5. The importance of "who did 9-11" has dwindled to the point where the people responsible is irrelevant and it would detract attention from our main goal. Whoever did it, as I've said before, did it because of capitalist imperialism, either as imperialist or victim thereof. Not that this justifies the attack.

6. Stop trolling.

[bootleg42]

Don't forget he/she can't even answer what dialectical materialism is so I guess it shows who he/she is.

[Tatarin]

rev0lt, you forgot:

7. Stop listening to David Duke.


You are totally a slave buying the official 9-11 lie !!

If you can't reply to all the questions I posted, then there is no point in debating you. I myself was interested in conspiracy theories when I was younger, and I speculated a lot. This comes naturally as I also was a fan of the X-Files. But when you later start to learn from your surroundings, how government works - hell, how society itself works, I think you will start questioning the conspiracy theories.

If not, well, Alex Jones is an adult and a conspiracy theorist, so I guess it is possible.


I congratulate you for being a slave

If being a slave means that I have read both sides of the 9/11 conspiracy, and fully aware of how the "truth movement" manipulated facts, and that the "truth movement" has turned into a business itself, then I am glad to be one.

Now, you either seriously debate the questions I asked you earlier, or this discussion is over.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 05:50 am
rev0lt, you forgot:

7. Stop listening to David Duke.


You are totally a slave buying the official 9-11 lie !!

If you can't reply to all the questions I posted, then there is no point in debating you. I myself was interested in conspiracy theories when I was younger, and I speculated a lot. This comes naturally as I also was a fan of the X-Files. But when you later start to learn from your surroundings, how government works - hell, how society itself works, I think you will start questioning the conspiracy theories.

If not, well, Alex Jones is an adult and a conspiracy theorist, so I guess it is possible.


I congratulate you for being a slave

If being a slave means that I have read both sides of the 9/11 conspiracy, and fully aware of how the "truth movement" manipulated facts, and that the "truth movement" has turned into a business itself, then I am glad to be one.

Now, you either seriously debate the questions I asked you earlier, or this discussion is over.


First of all: LET ME ASSERT ONE THING: I DON'T KNOW WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON 9-11, I DON'T HAVE THE 100% SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF WHO DID 9-11. All i have his 2 stories: US gov. story, and the inside job as pretext to wage wars story. However using my great mind, i conclude that the motives, smoking guns, hints, etc. point to the inside job story vs. the US gov. story


Just coz Chomsky says that 9-11 was done by Bin Laden doesn't mean we should immediately accept it, just like if Chomsky says that we should throw ourselves from a bridge

hahaha. You are like FOX news who labels "conspiracy theories" every argument against neocons. Even the dollar devaluation http://www.dollarcollapse.com is a "conspiracy theory" to you and FOX news.

No my friend, you are the one who is enslaved, not me, you are enslaved by "marxists" who are not marxists at all, but people enslaved by revisionists and corrupted groups, by Bob Avakian, by Alexander Cockburn, Chomsky, etc. who are not God ordained btw.

If a nazi says that Bush stole the presidency in 2000, and a leftist or a moralist claims that Bush is stole the presidency doesn't mean that the leftist who question the 2000 is a follower of David Duke (What a lack of logical and rational thinking)

Which means that i am a follower of David Duke and nazis who questioned the 911 terrors.

That's like if a Nazi eats pizza, and i eat pizza, it means that i am nazi too

haha, learn the scientific method by Mario Bunge and take a logics class

marxist_god

[Tatarin]

First of all: LET ME ASSERT ONE THING: I DON'T KNOW WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON 9-11, I DON'T HAVE THE 100% SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF WHO DID 9-11.

Then why are you so quick to believe the conspiracy theory? The official story is full of evidence of how the towers fell as they did, and why they did so. All I have seen on the "truth movement"'s side are maybe's and theories that could be just about anything.

Because if they would have physical evidence, they would either be right and that would spread pretty quickly around the world (every journalist on the planet can't be involved in the conspiracy), or they are wrong and the movement will be no more.

It has been six years since the attacks, but they haven't found any proof of an inside job. Why should I then believe them?


Just coz Chomsky says that 9-11 was done by Bin Laden doesn't mean we should immediately accept it, just like if Chomsky says that we should throw ourselves from a bridge

If there was no evidence then of course even Chomsky must be questioned. And the very same thing applies to you when whoever tells you about an inside job and expects you to believe them without evidence.


hahaha. You are like FOX news who labels "conspiracy theories" every argument against neocons.

Assumptions again. We are on a Communist Forum. It is obvious that I do not support anything that has it's roots in Rupert Murder's global media empire. Otherwise I wouldn't post here, would I?


No my friend, you are the one who is enslaved, not me,...

Do you enjoy looking down on people, and believe that you are so much smarter than all those idiots who believe the official story?

Or do you want me and everybody else on this forum un-slaved with the truth I've asked you to post like a billion times?


...you are enslaved by "marxists" who are not marxists at all,...

Actually, no, I "enslaved" myself to this evil marxist-controlled conspiracy.

You realize that slaves need masters? The left is against masters.


but people enslaved by revisionists and corrupted groups, by Bob Avakian, by Alexander Cockburn, Chomsky, etc. who are not God ordained btw.

Oh sure, I of course have read everything by Avakian, Chomsky and this Cockburn, have all their books and do whatever they tell me to. Is that the answer you want?


If a nazi says that Bush stole the presidency in 2000, and a leftist or a moralist claims that Bush [] stole the presidency doesn't mean that the leftist who question the 2000 [elections] is a follower of David Duke (What a lack of logical and rational thinking)

This is what I have been debating with you about. But you have again and again accused anyone of not believeing in the 9/11 conspiracy theory as siding with the US government.


Which means that i am a follower of David Duke and nazis who questioned the 911 terrors.

They of course have proof of what happened on 9/11. Do you ever wonder why racists and nazis are prone to conspiracy theories?


haha, learn the scientific method by Mario Bunge and take a logics class

You claim that 9/11 was an inside job. You must have evidence that proves it was an inside job. Do you have evidence that 9/11 was an inside job?

I will ask you a final time:

Do you have proof of an inside job on 9/11?

If you don't have it, there is nothing more for me to say. I have asked you to show us proof, you have replied with how enslaved we all are. I suggest you spend 3 hours watching Screw Loose Change on Google Video and to read the official story. Why not send an e-mail to Popular Mechanics?

Oh, and learn the scientific method by Mario Bunge and take a logics class.

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 05:17 pm
you are enslaved by "marxists" who are not marxists at all,
You couldn't even answer what dialectal materialism was. Why do you even talk???

[Philosophical Materialist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2007 09:07 pm
I believe David Duke a lot more than Chomsky on 9-11. Chomsky is not God-Ordained btw.
Yes, and you seem to believe Lyndon LaRouche, Webster Tarpley, David Duke, and the inmates of Stormfront. What does that say about you?

[Comrade-Z]

First things first:

The question of the "9/11 truth movement" does not stand or fall on the merits of Alex Jones or any other of its proponents. It stands for falls based on the veracity of its reasoning and evidence. Alex Jones and most other 9/11 truth people may be bat-shit-insane, but that won't change the fact that, when looking at the footage of the Pentagon immediately after the "crash," no roof collapse, hole greater than 8 feet wide, or area of broken windows larger than 15 feet wide, or plane wreckage can be detected. What the fuck am I supposed to make of that?

*It should be obvious to anyone that the official government story on 9/11 can't possibly work. Many many components are temporally/logistically/logically/physically impossible. Furthermore, since it is obvious that the government must realize that this is the case, the fact that they have settled on an obviously impossible narrative of the events and the fact that they have tried to permanently close the question suggests that they see something to be gained by lying about 9/11. As far as what the lie, and what the truth is, I don't know. Did a missile hit the pentagon? I don't know. We're explosives used in the WTC towers? There seems to be circumstantial evidence in favor of that, but one could still point to areas of doubt. In any case, I am certain that the government is up to no good on this issue, that they are involved with it in some manner, and that they are exploiting the issue for their own personal gain, and that 9/11 is just one more piece of evidence that our primary enemy is not Islamist insurgents, but our own ruling class. For me, it's not the "center of my political universe," as it is for most 9/11 truth movement people, or some exceptional act of treason or betrayal or conspiracy to usurp the government---for me it's just another piece of evidence against capitalism.

Hell, even if it WAS Islamist insurgents who were responsible, the U.S. government would STILL be guilty for bringing such awful events upon the American people by engaging in its murderous foreign policies over the years and provoking such "blowback."

I do find it strange, though, that so many "leftists" find it difficult to be skeptical of the official government story on this issue when they are just fine with being skeptical of the government on other issues, namely their general representative legitimacy. C'mon, to me the official story is an even more improbable conspiracy theory. The U.S. government had the means, the motive, and a good deal of circumstantial evidence suggesting its guilt. (Whereas the insurents might have had the motive, but less so for the means, and less circumstantial evidence). Although I haven't definitively concluded that the U.S. did it, I certainly have not definitively concluded that Islamist insurgents did it, as there is even less evidence for THAT. At this point, I simply do not know exactly what happened. But I'm curious to find out. And the fact that the government claims to know exactly what happened and the fact that they are basing a whole decade-long foreign policy around what amounts to speculation tells me that they are full of self-serving, manipulative bullshit.

I think these are the ways that we should handle the issue of the 9/11 truth movement.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by Comrade-[email protected] 12, 2007 02:31 am
First things first:

The question of the "9/11 truth movement" does not stand or fall on the merits of Alex Jones or any other of its proponents. It stands for falls based on the veracity of its reasoning and evidence. Alex Jones and most other 9/11 truth people may be bat-shit-insane, but that won't change the fact that, when looking at the footage of the Pentagon immediately after the "crash," no roof collapse, hole greater than 8 feet wide, or area of broken windows larger than 15 feet wide, or plane wreckage can be detected. What the fuck am I supposed to make of that?

*It should be obvious to anyone that the official government story on 9/11 can't possibly work. Many many components are temporally/logistically/logically/physically impossible. Furthermore, since it is obvious that the government must realize that this is the case, the fact that they have settled on an obviously impossible narrative of the events and the fact that they have tried to permanently close the question suggests that they see something to be gained by lying about 9/11. As far as what the lie, and what the truth is, I don't know. Did a missile hit the pentagon? I don't know. We're explosives used in the WTC towers? There seems to be circumstantial evidence in favor of that, but one could still point to areas of doubt. In any case, I am certain that the government is up to no good on this issue, that they are involved with it in some manner, and that they are exploiting the issue for their own personal gain, and that 9/11 is just one more piece of evidence that our primary enemy is not Islamist insurgents, but our own ruling class. For me, it's not the "center of my political universe," as it is for most 9/11 truth movement people, or some exceptional act of treason or betrayal or conspiracy to usurp the government---for me it's just another piece of evidence against capitalism.

Hell, even if it WAS Islamist insurgents who were responsible, the U.S. government would STILL be guilty for bringing such awful events upon the American people by engaging in its murderous foreign policies over the years and provoking such "blowback."

I do find it strange, though, that so many "leftists" find it difficult to be skeptical of the official government story on this issue when they are just fine with being skeptical of the government on other issues, namely their general representative legitimacy. C'mon, to me the official story is an even more improbable conspiracy theory. The U.S. government had the means, the motive, and a good deal of circumstantial evidence suggesting its guilt. (Whereas the insurents might have had the motive, but less so for the means, and less circumstantial evidence). Although I haven't definitively concluded that the U.S. did it, I certainly have not definitively concluded that Islamist insurgents did it, as there is even less evidence for THAT. At this point, I simply do not know exactly what happened. But I'm curious to find out. And the fact that the government claims to know exactly what happened and the fact that they are basing a whole decade-long foreign policy around what amounts to speculation tells me that they are full of self-serving, manipulative bullshit.

I think these are the ways that we should handle the issue of the 9/11 truth movement.

Hello my friend, you are right but Alexander Cockburn the Einstein of the Elite Left of USA, www.commondreams.org Naomi Klein, Chomsky and other status quo elite leftists of the status quo of USA said that 9-11 was done by 19 islamic terrorists, so we should believe what the status quo left claims

You know a lot of people in the left follow blindly their leaders. People should learn what Che Guevara said:

"I didn't pretend to liberate anybody, but to teach people how to liberate themselves"

Another irrational, illogical argument that a lot of dogmatic leftists out there say is that just because David Duke is a nazi, and Alex Jones, and the 9-11 truth movement are capitalists they are totally wrong, that is the most irrational argument i've heard.

That's like if a leftist rapist raped my daugther, i should support that rapist just because he is "leftist"

I think people have to think for themselves, question every thing

That is the difference between 21st century democratic socialism, and Stalinist USSR fascist socialism

marxist_god

[Tatarin]

The question of the "9/11 truth movement" does not stand or fall on the merits of Alex Jones or any other of its proponents. It stands for falls based on the veracity of its reasoning and evidence.

I can accept that. The problem comes when the movement itself starts to manipulate real evidence. Like what the firemen said inside the twin towers. They did say explosions, bombs - in a chaotic surrounding, with people dying all around you - that is of course what they would say. But an explosion can be anything.

That is just one example. If they are so eager to tell the truth, why would they themselves lie? And when you do confront them, they turn their backs and call you a liar. Is it so strange, then, that credible scientists feel unconfortable confronting them actively? And especially a group claiming to know the truth?


Alex Jones and most other 9/11 truth people may be bat-shit-insane, but that won't change the fact that, when looking at the footage of the Pentagon immediately after the "crash," no roof collapse, hole greater than 8 feet wide, or area of broken windows larger than 15 feet wide, or plane wreckage can be detected.

The Pentagon is a reinforced building made for war. It is built to take damage. After all, it is the war headquarters of a superpower. The "small hole" is a misleading hyped theory. What many doesn't seem to know is that the plane crashed into the first level - and left a very big hole.

Furthermore, as I said above, the Pentagon is reinforced with all kinds of stuff, and that includes it's windows. As for the debries, they can be found all over the Pentagon lawns. It's just that Loose Change, for some reason, didn't show any pictures of that.


It should be obvious to anyone that the official government story on 9/11 can't possibly work. Many many components temporally/logistically/logically/physically impossible.

Like what?


Furthermore, since it is obvious that the government must realize that this is the case, the fact that they have settled on an obviously impossible narrative of the events and the fact that they have tried to permanently close the question suggests that they see something to be gained by lying about 9/11.

But isn't this strange to you? The whole conspiracy is somehow out in the open, out there for anyone to read and debunk if they want. The questions can still be asked, answers can still be demanded.


There seems to be circumstantial evidence in favor of that, but one could still point to areas of doubt.

The fires in the twin towers were dangerous enough for people to jump from the 80th something floor. If the buildings were wired with explosives, the planes must have crashed in the exact spots where planned, otherwise something could go wrong. And controlled demolitions go from the bottom up, not top to down.

Maybe it is Steven Jones' alleged thermite, which he recieved by mail? Also, thermite is just one of many "new" materials that formed in the intense heat of the rubble of the towers.


I do find it strange, though, that so many "leftists" find it difficult to be skeptical of the official government story on this issue when they are just fine with being skeptical of the government on other issues, namely their general representative legitimacy.

No one is having any difficulties with it, there simply is nothing there to counter the official version.


C'mon, to me the official story is an even more improbable conspiracy theory.

What part?


The U.S. government had the means, the motive, and a good deal of circumstantial evidence suggesting its guilt.

The means also involves the hundreds of people involved in the conspiracy. People, involved in Watergate, came out and spoke about the scandal. Even the FBI was investigating Nixon. 9/11 is on a much bigger scale, it's not a political game, it's a damn massacre.


(Whereas the insurents might have had the motive, but less so for the means, and less circumstantial evidence).

They did have the motive - Palestine, Lebanon and all other things the US meddled with in the Middle East. And they did have the means. After all, they were educated, not "some people out in the desert". These are extremists who made life difficult for the Soviet Union in Afghanistan for years. They carried out attacks in Somalia and Yemen.


Although I haven't definitively concluded that the U.S. did it, I certainly have not definitively concluded that Islamist insurgents did it, as there is even less evidence for THAT.

There is evidence for that. What is it you doubt?

[Jazzratt]

Oh for fuck's sake not this shit. Firstly, to those of you who think that the 11-9 attacks were an inside job because the government say it wasn't please grow the fuck up, they don't need to undertake massive, ridiculous conspiracies - the real world does not work that way, the Illuminati are not under your beds. It's also stupid to go against what the official story is simply because it's official, it's exactly this kind of thinking that causes leftists to prop up all kinds of stupid woo woo crap - fluoride in the water for example. Yes one needs to be wary of governments and official statements but not at the expense of rationality and logic.

All the "smoking guns" you fruitcakes produce are just your misunderstandings of mechanics, engineering and physics. If you don't understand why an impact site looks like it does, look it up in fucking Popular Mechanics (yes they have done articles on 11-9 thanks to the incessant paranoid assertions of certain brainless plonkers. This (http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html) might be a good place to start, but there are plenty of other resources out there debunking your myths.

Hell, even before we get to that stage important questions have already been raised - the government is powerful enough to pull off this kind of shit in complete secrecy but when some mouthbreathing loser makes a video in his mum's cellar about how they did it they can get away with making the video. Why is this? Also a conspiracy this big would necessitate the involvement of hundreds if not thousands of people but in the world of conspiracy theorists it is entirely possible that they all managed to remain utterly silent yet it is implausible that a fucking great chunk of metal full of fuel scything into a tower had something to do with its coming down. What kind of utter rem follows that logic?

Stop attributing these conspiracies to governments and the like. Governments and corporations don't need to conspire in smoky back rooms, they do it all the time in boardrooms and parliaments, they do it in the open. Their conspiracy is to make a lot of money and to make sure they have to do as little actual work for it as possible. Sometimes they even get windfalls like the tragic events of 11-9 (and to a lesser extent 7-7) and can convert this into political (and therefore actual) capital through bare-arsed opportunism.

Bollocks to conspiracy theories, the theorists can shove them back up their arses where they came from.

[Dimentio]

We seem to have got ourselves a Klaxon attack (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/klaxon.htm) here.

[SouthernBelle82]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 12:54 am

First of all: LET ME ASSERT ONE THING: I DON'T KNOW WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON 9-11, I DON'T HAVE THE 100% SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF WHO DID 9-11.

Then why are you so quick to believe the conspiracy theory? The official story is full of evidence of how the towers fell as they did, and why they did so. All I have seen on the "truth movement"'s side are maybe's and theories that could be just about anything.

Because if they would have physical evidence, they would either be right and that would spread pretty quickly around the world (every journalist on the planet can't be involved in the conspiracy), or they are wrong and the movement will be no more.

It has been six years since the attacks, but they haven't found any proof of an inside job. Why should I then believe them?


Just coz Chomsky says that 9-11 was done by Bin Laden doesn't mean we should immediately accept it, just like if Chomsky says that we should throw ourselves from a bridge

If there was no evidence then of course even Chomsky must be questioned. And the very same thing applies to you when whoever tells you about an inside job and expects you to believe them without evidence.


hahaha. You are like FOX news who labels "conspiracy theories" every argument against neocons.

Assumptions again. We are on a Communist Forum. It is obvious that I do not support anything that has it's roots in Rupert Murder's global media empire. Otherwise I wouldn't post here, would I?


No my friend, you are the one who is enslaved, not me,...

Do you enjoy looking down on people, and believe that you are so much smarter than all those idiots who believe the official story?

Or do you want me and everybody else on this forum un-slaved with the truth I've asked you to post like a billion times?


...you are enslaved by "marxists" who are not marxists at all,...

Actually, no, I "enslaved" myself to this evil marxist-controlled conspiracy.

You realize that slaves need masters? The left is against masters.


but people enslaved by revisionists and corrupted groups, by Bob Avakian, by Alexander Cockburn, Chomsky, etc. who are not God ordained btw.

Oh sure, I of course have read everything by Avakian, Chomsky and this Cockburn, have all their books and do whatever they tell me to. Is that the answer you want?


If a nazi says that Bush stole the presidency in 2000, and a leftist or a moralist claims that Bush [] stole the presidency doesn't mean that the leftist who question the 2000 [elections] is a follower of David Duke (What a lack of logical and rational thinking)

This is what I have been debating with you about. But you have again and again accused anyone of not believeing in the 9/11 conspiracy theory as siding with the US government.


Which means that i am a follower of David Duke and nazis who questioned the 911 terrors.

They of course have proof of what happened on 9/11. Do you ever wonder why racists and nazis are prone to conspiracy theories?


haha, learn the scientific method by Mario Bunge and take a logics class

You claim that 9/11 was an inside job. You must have evidence that proves it was an inside job. Do you have evidence that 9/11 was an inside job?

I will ask you a final time:

Do you have proof of an inside job on 9/11?

If you don't have it, there is nothing more for me to say. I have asked you to show us proof, you have replied with how enslaved we all are. I suggest you spend 3 hours watching Screw Loose Change on Google Video and to read the official story. Why not send an e-mail to Popular Mechanics?

Oh, and learn the scientific method by Mario Bunge and take a logics class.
When you mention the "truth movement" that is a pretty broad statement. I consider myself a part of the movement because I don't claim to know the answers and I don't believe this government because they've told lies after lies so why should I believe them? As it was said earlier just because one group believes something doesn't mean the whole group does etc. I don't believe everything Alex Jones does and I'm sure if the thread goes on long enough there will be something I will disagree with people on who are in the "truth movement." Who is the leader of the "truth movement"? There is none the last time I checked. Mr Jones might like to think he's the leader or whatever but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who have no clue who he is or cares. I've seen some weird stuff out there that I roll my eyes at like one site I saw the people claimed there were no airplanes that hit the towers but that's just b.s. cause we have evidence otherwise. With me I go with what I can prove. There's plenty of information out there if people are that into it. If it's there to prove than I keep it in mind. If it's obviously not than I throw it out unless I come across it again. Even our own FBI does not list 9/11 as a crime that BinLadin did on their "most wanted" poster of him. Don't you think that would be there and at the top of the list? Why not?

And who have you seen has done a serious investigation where the people involved aren't in some way connected? I remember sometime either earlier this year or last year a guy on the 9/11 commission was on Lou Dobbs promoting a book saying the American public doesn't know the whole truth. Let's think about this. Let's say your city's police department had an officer who killed another person whether they be an average citizen or another officer it's your choice. Than that same police department did the criminal investigation and got their own lawyers in court and a judge who has connections to the department. Whatever the outcome of the case would you believe it or would you want someone to do the investigation and court hearings who had no ties whatsoever to the person who did the crime?

So beacause people who are racist and Nazi wannabe's that means every person who does not believe like you do are a part of that? So uh hello pot meet kettle. You're just being hypocritical here.

Have you ever heard of PNAC? If not http://www.newamericancentury.org and http://www.pnac.info I guess that's just a consperiacy too (sarcasm).

[SouthernBelle82]

Originally posted by Comrade-[email protected] 12, 2007 02:31 am
First things first:

The question of the "9/11 truth movement" does not stand or fall on the merits of Alex Jones or any other of its proponents. It stands for falls based on the veracity of its reasoning and evidence. Alex Jones and most other 9/11 truth people may be bat-shit-insane, but that won't change the fact that, when looking at the footage of the Pentagon immediately after the "crash," no roof collapse, hole greater than 8 feet wide, or area of broken windows larger than 15 feet wide, or plane wreckage can be detected. What the fuck am I supposed to make of that?

*It should be obvious to anyone that the official government story on 9/11 can't possibly work. Many many components are temporally/logistically/logically/physically impossible. Furthermore, since it is obvious that the government must realize that this is the case, the fact that they have settled on an obviously impossible narrative of the events and the fact that they have tried to permanently close the question suggests that they see something to be gained by lying about 9/11. As far as what the lie, and what the truth is, I don't know. Did a missile hit the pentagon? I don't know. We're explosives used in the WTC towers? There seems to be circumstantial evidence in favor of that, but one could still point to areas of doubt. In any case, I am certain that the government is up to no good on this issue, that they are involved with it in some manner, and that they are exploiting the issue for their own personal gain, and that 9/11 is just one more piece of evidence that our primary enemy is not Islamist insurgents, but our own ruling class. For me, it's not the "center of my political universe," as it is for most 9/11 truth movement people, or some exceptional act of treason or betrayal or conspiracy to usurp the government---for me it's just another piece of evidence against capitalism.

Hell, even if it WAS Islamist insurgents who were responsible, the U.S. government would STILL be guilty for bringing such awful events upon the American people by engaging in its murderous foreign policies over the years and provoking such "blowback."

I do find it strange, though, that so many "leftists" find it difficult to be skeptical of the official government story on this issue when they are just fine with being skeptical of the government on other issues, namely their general representative legitimacy. C'mon, to me the official story is an even more improbable conspiracy theory. The U.S. government had the means, the motive, and a good deal of circumstantial evidence suggesting its guilt. (Whereas the insurents might have had the motive, but less so for the means, and less circumstantial evidence). Although I haven't definitively concluded that the U.S. did it, I certainly have not definitively concluded that Islamist insurgents did it, as there is even less evidence for THAT. At this point, I simply do not know exactly what happened. But I'm curious to find out. And the fact that the government claims to know exactly what happened and the fact that they are basing a whole decade-long foreign policy around what amounts to speculation tells me that they are full of self-serving, manipulative bullshit.

I think these are the ways that we should handle the issue of the 9/11 truth movement.
I would also like to add why did Bush fly out anyone from Saudi's and people who were related to BinLadin? Everyone should check out the book "House Of Bush, House of Saud." Sorry I can't remember the author.

[SouthernBelle82]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2007 08:17 pm
Oh for fuck's sake not this shit. Firstly, to those of you who think that the 11-9 attacks were an inside job because the government say it wasn't please grow the fuck up, they don't need to undertake massive, ridiculous conspiracies - the real world does not work that way, the Illuminati are not under your beds. It's also stupid to go against what the official story is simply because it's official, it's exactly this kind of thinking that causes leftists to prop up all kinds of stupid woo woo crap - fluoride in the water for example. Yes one needs to be wary of governments and official statements but not at the expense of rationality and logic.

All the "smoking guns" you fruitcakes produce are just your misunderstandings of mechanics, engineering and physics. If you don't understand why an impact site looks like it does, look it up in fucking Popular Mechanics (yes they have done articles on 11-9 thanks to the incessant paranoid assertions of certain brainless plonkers. This (http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html) might be a good place to start, but there are plenty of other resources out there debunking your myths.

Hell, even before we get to that stage important questions have already been raised - the government is powerful enough to pull off this kind of shit in complete secrecy but when some mouthbreathing loser makes a video in his mum's cellar about how they did it they can get away with making the video. Why is this? Also a conspiracy this big would necessitate the involvement of hundreds if not thousands of people but in the world of conspiracy theorists it is entirely possible that they all managed to remain utterly silent yet it is implausible that a fucking great chunk of metal full of fuel scything into a tower had something to do with its coming down. What kind of utter rem follows that logic?

Stop attributing these conspiracies to governments and the like. Governments and corporations don't need to conspire in smoky back rooms, they do it all the time in boardrooms and parliaments, they do it in the open. Their conspiracy is to make a lot of money and to make sure they have to do as little actual work for it as possible. Sometimes they even get windfalls like the tragic events of 11-9 (and to a lesser extent 7-7) and can convert this into political (and therefore actual) capital through bare-arsed opportunism.

Bollocks to conspiracy theories, the theorists can shove them back up their arses where they came from.
It's not a consperiacy theory if you can prove it. And if you don't like something instead of *****ing at other people nobody made you come here.

[Tatarin]

When you mention the "truth movement" that is a pretty broad statement.

Yes. I refer to people who believe in the 9/11 inside job-theory as the "truth movement".


I consider myself a part of the movement because I don't claim to know the answers and I don't believe this government because they've told lies after lies so why should I believe them?

Lies is one thing. Solid proof another. Yes, the US government did lie when they said Saddam Hussein had deadly weapons, and they did lie that they wanted to bring "democracy" to Iraq.

However, there is plenty of material evidence of how the twin towers and the Pentagon was hit and how they collapsed. That information is out in the open for anyone to dissect and prove the opposite. It would be another matter if they said that this and that happened, but didn't have anything to back it up with.


I've seen some weird stuff out there that I roll my eyes at like one site I saw the people claimed there were no airplanes that hit the towers but that's just b.s. cause we have evidence otherwise.

I'll take this as an example. Would you like me to say "no, there were no airplanes, you are wrong". "You have been brainwashed by the CIA brain-machine". "You are a slave" or "you are in on the conspiracy".

Can you see, now, why not many scientists want to go into discussion with the 9/11 truth movement. Imagine to have such a discussion with me. The one answer I would require from you would be a confession of that there were no planes.


Even our own FBI does not list 9/11 as a crime that BinLadin did on their "most wanted" poster of him. Don't you think that would be there and at the top of the list? Why not?

Isn't the FBI the internal police, while the CIA is the "external police"? bin Laden is obviously not hiding in the US. However, that doesn't point to a conspiracy. After all, why would the conspirators be so stupid to forget this?


And who have you seen has done a serious investigation where the people involved aren't in some way connected?

That still doesn't mean much. Both the FBI and the Nixon Administration promoted and defended capitalism, yet the FBI investigated the government after the Watergate scandal.

While it indeed seems suspicious that investigators and the investigatees may or may not be connected, the main point is their material evidence for the event. As of this moment, no one in the "truth movement" has countered the official story with any investigation themselves.


Let's say your city's police department had an officer who killed another person whether they be an average citizen or another officer it's your choice. Than that same police department did the criminal investigation and got their own lawyers in court and a judge who has connections to the department. Whatever the outcome of the case would you believe it or would you want someone to do the investigation and court hearings who had no ties whatsoever to the person who did the crime?

But like I said above - it does seem suspicious at first when the same police department does an investigation. But that is how I would feel and think. The weight on this lies on the evidence.

If witnesses come forth and starts confirming how the policeman killed "person X" (i.e., the victim), then I have something to go on. We have the bullets, the gun, the place itself (blood, the body etc). Let's imagine that the police claims that the act of the policeman was in self-defence. They provide the proof of how, why and so on. If I doubt this, I myself must have some evidence (at least) to counter the official story.

If I don't have it, then there is nothing I can do. My feelings or what I believe really happened can not help me either.

So, let us take this to 9/11. The "truth movement" is the people who feel and believe that something is wrong - the reason can be how the collapse [of the twin towers] looked, the hole in Pentagon, and so on - but they do not have any evidence against the official story.

The policeman in this case, the "official story", has plenty of documented evidence to support it's story. That evidence is not secret, nor is it only displayed to Popular Mechanics investigators, or Americans, or anything. It is open for anyone to dissect as they like. To this day, there is only alternate theories and speculations based on almost nothing.

One can always speculate that that doesn't mean that there was no conspiracy, which in the case of 9/11 means that the people who provided proof for how and why things happened as they did would be the most intelligent persons on the planet, because it would require them to fool all of mankind.


So beacause people who are racist and Nazi wannabe's that means every person who does not believe like you do are a part of that?

No one seems to have noticed the previous posts I've made, ohr well.

marxist_god asked me before who I would believe - the US government (who says there was no inside job) or president Hugo Chavez of Venezuela (who mentioned that the US government was behind 9/11).

I asked him/her if Chavez had any proof of an inside job, but it seems that he has not. The US government has. That does not mean that I like the US government, or that I believe in anything they say, or that I watch FOX news (which I don't have, btw) or CNN and believe what they say.

marxist_god said, after that, that he was inclined to belive David Duke instead of Noam Chomsky when it came to 9/11.

What I am trying to write here is that there may have been a misunderstanding, because I took marxist_god's Chavez vs. US government as a straw man. Having said that, I can't think of any reason to believe in anything David Duke says.

Remember that racists have their own form of thinking, and Duke has in this case the Jews to blame, in order to make it fit into his "Jews-controll-everything" world view. It is obvious why he wants 9/11 to be an inside job - because that is how every single Jew on this planet operates according to nazism (i.e., in secret, conspiracies etc).

Now that we hopefully have that out of they way - I have not accused anyone of being part of anything, but I have myself been called a "slave" and a FOX/CNN consumer.

I have again and again asked for proof to counter the official story - wheter it comes from Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro or the "9/11 truth movement" doesn't matter, only to be met with accusations and assumptions (against/about me).


Have you ever heard of PNAC? If not http://www.newamericancentury.org and http://www.pnac.info I guess that's just a consperiacy too (sarcasm).

I'm fully aware of the PNAC, which is a neo-conservative agenda, yes. What is probably so notable about them is for them to say that America need a new Pearl Harbour for it's own good. I guess that is the same reason they never erased their agenda, or for that matter, posted it for everyone to see what they planned:

Rebuilding America's Defences (http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf) (*.pdf File)


I would also like to add why did Bush fly out anyone from Saudi's and people who were related to BinLadin?

Because Saudi Arabia is probably the US's biggest ally. After all, it is known that the Saudi government holds public executions and such. For Bush to care a little extra about them doesn't surprise me a bit.


It's not a consperiacy theory if you can prove it.

Can you prove that there was an inside job?

[Dimentio]

PNAC does not seem to exist anymore judging from their website.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 05:51 am
It's not a consperiacy theory if you can prove it.
You are correct. This is among the reasons that the "ZOMG GUBBMINTZ[/JEWZ/SHAPESHIFTING LIZZZZARDZ!] DID 9/11" is a conspiracy theory.


And if you don't like something instead of *****ing at other people nobody made you come here.

Someone made this thread, presumably, so that people could express their opinions on what happened on 11-9. My opinion, the one backed up by the evidence, is that a number of people trained by a terrorist organisation led by a former darling of the CIA flew planes into things, which then collapsed. I find it fascinating that "al-quadea" was originally a complete fiction created by a captured terrorist/con man in order to escape harsh punishment, I also find the relationship between the Bin Laden family and America interesting. What I don't do is immediately jump to the conclusion that it must have been an inside job, governments are just not that competent.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+December 14, 2007 02:16 pm--> (Jazzratt @ December 14, 2007 02:16 pm)
[email protected] 14, 2007 05:51 am
It's not a consperiacy theory if you can prove it.
You are correct. This is among the reasons that the "ZOMG GUBBMINTZ[/JEWZ/SHAPESHIFTING LIZZZZARDZ!] DID 9/11" is a conspiracy theory.


And if you don't like something instead of *****ing at other people nobody made you come here.

Someone made this thread, presumably, so that people could express their opinions on what happened on 11-9. My opinion, the one backed up by the evidence, is that a number of people trained by a terrorist organisation led by a former darling of the CIA flew planes into things, which then collapsed. I find it fascinating that "al-quadea" was originally a complete fiction created by a captured terrorist/con man in order to escape harsh punishment, I also find the relationship between the Bin Laden family and America interesting. What I don't do is immediately jump to the conclusion that it must have been an inside job, governments are just not that competent. [/b]

Show me all the evidence you got that 9-11 was done by crazy islamic terrorists. And don't post CNN, FOX or any mainstream news. Show me some real hard documents, instead of insulting people who question the US fascist government. If US gov. is capable of killing 1 million Iraquis for oil, it is also capable of killing 3000 american assets for oil

marxist_god

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+December 14, 2007 02:16 pm--> (Jazzratt @ December 14, 2007 02:16 pm)
[email protected] 14, 2007 05:51 am
It's not a consperiacy theory if you can prove it.
You are correct. This is among the reasons that the "ZOMG GUBBMINTZ[/JEWZ/SHAPESHIFTING LIZZZZARDZ!] DID 9/11" is a conspiracy theory.


And if you don't like something instead of *****ing at other people nobody made you come here.

Someone made this thread, presumably, so that people could express their opinions on what happened on 11-9. My opinion, the one backed up by the evidence, is that a number of people trained by a terrorist organisation led by a former darling of the CIA flew planes into things, which then collapsed. I find it fascinating that "al-quadea" was originally a complete fiction created by a captured terrorist/con man in order to escape harsh punishment, I also find the relationship between the Bin Laden family and America interesting. What I don't do is immediately jump to the conclusion that it must have been an inside job, governments are just not that competent. [/b]


By the way, even our old comrade Fidel Castro joined the conspiracy theorists questioning the 9-11 events. Which means that Fidel Castro is not a leftist anymore?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/stor...2167355,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,,2167355,00.html)

Castro says US lied about 9/11 attacks


Mark Tran and agencies
Wednesday September 12, 2007
Guardian Unlimited


Fidel Castro has accused America of spreading disinformation about an explosion at the Pentagon on September 11 2001.

Fidel Castro today joined the band of September 11 conspiracy theorists by accusing the US of spreading disinformation about the attacks that took place six years ago.
In a 4,256-word article read by a Cuban television presenter last night, the country's leader asserted that the Pentagon was hit by a rocket, not a plane, because no traces were found of its passengers.

"Only a projectile could have created the geometrically round orifice created by the alleged airplane," he said. "We were deceived as well as the rest of the planet's inhabitants," he said.

In fact, the remains of the bodies of the crew and passengers of American Airlines flight 77 were found at the Pentagon crash site, and positively identified by DNA.

As for the attacks on the World Trade Centre in New York, Mr Castro wrote that the way the passenger jets crashed into the twin towers on September 11 and the data from the plane's black boxes "do not correspond with the criteria of mathematicians, seismologists, and information and demolition specialists".

But in a glaring omission, Mr Castro's conspiracy theory failed to mention Osama bin Laden, who this week issued a video praising one of the hijackers who crashed into the World Trade Centre, and his militant Islamist al-Qaida network.

In his article, Mr Castro said the truth behind the attacks with hijacked planes that killed nearly 3,000 people would probably never be known.

The Cuban government originally condemned the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington hours after they occurred.

Within days it had organised a rally to express solidarity with Americans and Mr Castro said Cuba offered to donate blood.

Mr Castro has not appeared in public since mid-2006, when he underwent intestinal surgery and ceded power to his younger brother Raul. In late March, he began writing occasional essays on mostly international themes.

Mr Castro himself was the target of several failed assassination attempts by the US after he took power in 1959.

He also claimed in his essay that Cuba tipped off US security services in 1984 about a plan to kill the then president, Ronald Reagan, while he was campaigning for re-election in North Carolina.

The information provided by Cuba led to the arrest of a group of would-be assassins and foiled the plot, he wrote.




marxist_god

[Tatarin]

By the way, even our old comrade Fidel Castro joined the conspiracy theorists questioning the 9-11 events.

Which means that Fidel Castro is absolutely right, because if he says that 9/11 was an inside job, then that must be the case. Right?

And what makes you believe the Guardian? You accuse me of listening to Fox News and CNN, but when the Guardian says Castro thinks 9/11 was an inside job, you believe them?

[SouthernBelle82]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 08:45 am

When you mention the "truth movement" that is a pretty broad statement.

Yes. I refer to people who believe in the 9/11 inside job-theory as the "truth movement".


I consider myself a part of the movement because I don't claim to know the answers and I don't believe this government because they've told lies after lies so why should I believe them?

Lies is one thing. Solid proof another. Yes, the US government did lie when they said Saddam Hussein had deadly weapons, and they did lie that they wanted to bring "democracy" to Iraq.

However, there is plenty of material evidence of how the twin towers and the Pentagon was hit and how they collapsed. That information is out in the open for anyone to dissect and prove the opposite. It would be another matter if they said that this and that happened, but didn't have anything to back it up with.


I've seen some weird stuff out there that I roll my eyes at like one site I saw the people claimed there were no airplanes that hit the towers but that's just b.s. cause we have evidence otherwise.

I'll take this as an example. Would you like me to say "no, there were no airplanes, you are wrong". "You have been brainwashed by the CIA brain-machine". "You are a slave" or "you are in on the conspiracy".

Can you see, now, why not many scientists want to go into discussion with the 9/11 truth movement. Imagine to have such a discussion with me. The one answer I would require from you would be a confession of that there were no planes.


Even our own FBI does not list 9/11 as a crime that BinLadin did on their "most wanted" poster of him. Don't you think that would be there and at the top of the list? Why not?

Isn't the FBI the internal police, while the CIA is the "external police"? bin Laden is obviously not hiding in the US. However, that doesn't point to a conspiracy. After all, why would the conspirators be so stupid to forget this?


And who have you seen has done a serious investigation where the people involved aren't in some way connected?

That still doesn't mean much. Both the FBI and the Nixon Administration promoted and defended capitalism, yet the FBI investigated the government after the Watergate scandal.

While it indeed seems suspicious that investigators and the investigatees may or may not be connected, the main point is their material evidence for the event. As of this moment, no one in the "truth movement" has countered the official story with any investigation themselves.


Let's say your city's police department had an officer who killed another person whether they be an average citizen or another officer it's your choice. Than that same police department did the criminal investigation and got their own lawyers in court and a judge who has connections to the department. Whatever the outcome of the case would you believe it or would you want someone to do the investigation and court hearings who had no ties whatsoever to the person who did the crime?

But like I said above - it does seem suspicious at first when the same police department does an investigation. But that is how I would feel and think. The weight on this lies on the evidence.

If witnesses come forth and starts confirming how the policeman killed "person X" (i.e., the victim), then I have something to go on. We have the bullets, the gun, the place itself (blood, the body etc). Let's imagine that the police claims that the act of the policeman was in self-defence. They provide the proof of how, why and so on. If I doubt this, I myself must have some evidence (at least) to counter the official story.

If I don't have it, then there is nothing I can do. My feelings or what I believe really happened can not help me either.

So, let us take this to 9/11. The "truth movement" is the people who feel and believe that something is wrong - the reason can be how the collapse [of the twin towers] looked, the hole in Pentagon, and so on - but they do not have any evidence against the official story.

The policeman in this case, the "official story", has plenty of documented evidence to support it's story. That evidence is not secret, nor is it only displayed to Popular Mechanics investigators, or Americans, or anything. It is open for anyone to dissect as they like. To this day, there is only alternate theories and speculations based on almost nothing.

One can always speculate that that doesn't mean that there was no conspiracy, which in the case of 9/11 means that the people who provided proof for how and why things happened as they did would be the most intelligent persons on the planet, because it would require them to fool all of mankind.


So beacause people who are racist and Nazi wannabe's that means every person who does not believe like you do are a part of that?

No one seems to have noticed the previous posts I've made, ohr well.

marxist_god asked me before who I would believe - the US government (who says there was no inside job) or president Hugo Chavez of Venezuela (who mentioned that the US government was behind 9/11).

I asked him/her if Chavez had any proof of an inside job, but it seems that he has not. The US government has. That does not mean that I like the US government, or that I believe in anything they say, or that I watch FOX news (which I don't have, btw) or CNN and believe what they say.

marxist_god said, after that, that he was inclined to belive David Duke instead of Noam Chomsky when it came to 9/11.

What I am trying to write here is that there may have been a misunderstanding, because I took marxist_god's Chavez vs. US government as a straw man. Having said that, I can't think of any reason to believe in anything David Duke says.

Remember that racists have their own form of thinking, and Duke has in this case the Jews to blame, in order to make it fit into his "Jews-controll-everything" world view. It is obvious why he wants 9/11 to be an inside job - because that is how every single Jew on this planet operates according to nazism (i.e., in secret, conspiracies etc).

Now that we hopefully have that out of they way - I have not accused anyone of being part of anything, but I have myself been called a "slave" and a FOX/CNN consumer.

I have again and again asked for proof to counter the official story - wheter it comes from Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro or the "9/11 truth movement" doesn't matter, only to be met with accusations and assumptions (against/about me).


Have you ever heard of PNAC? If not http://www.newamericancentury.org and http://www.pnac.info I guess that's just a consperiacy too (sarcasm).

I'm fully aware of the PNAC, which is a neo-conservative agenda, yes. What is probably so notable about them is for them to say that America need a new Pearl Harbour for it's own good. I guess that is the same reason they never erased their agenda, or for that matter, posted it for everyone to see what they planned:

Rebuilding America's Defences (http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf) (*.pdf File)


I would also like to add why did Bush fly out anyone from Saudi's and people who were related to BinLadin?

Because Saudi Arabia is probably the US's biggest ally. After all, it is known that the Saudi government holds public executions and such. For Bush to care a little extra about them doesn't surprise me a bit.


It's not a consperiacy theory if you can prove it.

Can you prove that there was an inside job?
Oh sure I can understand that. I'm not a scientist or anything like that so I don't claim to know all that. I more so go with connections, motive etc. Start with BCCI for example. Both the Bush family and the BinLadin family were members of that. Also check out the book "House of Bush, House of Saud." I just agree with Chavez that there should be an independent investigation. Maybe the world court or something. Would you expect a police department to investigate one of their own officers if they did a crime? I'd be suspecious of it myself. Well even the FBI has said they had no proof that BinLadin was directly involved in the crime. The crime happened on US soil so that would involve the FBI since it was an attack on a federal building. Why would the Jewish people attack the US? We're their biggest financers. It doesn't make any sense. And without any type of investigation there can't be any proof. The Bush government has lied about so much I'm not willing to believe them about this. Why should I?

[bootleg42]

A new investigation would probably just show the incompetence of the government to prevent attacks on their country. Also it would bring the topic of their foreign policy into even bigger analysis (their relation to Saudi Arabia, etc). And that's the truth. The government (no matter what it says) can't protect it's citizens and it's foreign policy (created by capitalism) would be exposed as the reason there was a terrorist attack.

Bush or anyone is not behind 9-11 and if they were, what does it matter???? It's still capitalism (either way) doing bad to people and creating death and destruction.

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 03:07 am
Bush or anyone is not behind 9-11 and if they were, what does it matter????

So according to you we should believe in the 9-11 Official lie of 9-11? Cool and every other lie by US government as well? like the WMD in Iraq? and Iraq links to Al-Ciada? hahaha, come on wake up from your dogmatism and cultism. I used to recieve the newspaper http://www.rwor.org and I do download MP3s from http://www.bobavakian.com I like what he has to say on 'Jeffersonian Democracy', however i let no man control my thoughts, specially those who skink like garlic :lol:

marxist_god

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 03:07 am
A new investigation would probably just show the incompetence of the government to prevent attacks on their country. Also it would bring the topic of their foreign policy into even bigger analysis (their relation to Saudi Arabia, etc). And that's the truth. The government (no matter what it says) can't protect it's citizens and it's foreign policy (created by capitalism) would be exposed as the reason there was a terrorist attack.

Bush or anyone is not behind 9-11 and if they were, what does it matter???? It's still capitalism (either way) doing bad to people and creating death and destruction.

By the way who was the author of that 'new investigation' that says that Bush wasn't behind 9-11? hmm, sounds like the Lawyers of Bush


marxist_god

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by marxist_god+December 19, 2007 03:33 am--> (marxist_god @ December 19, 2007 03:33 am)
[email protected] 19, 2007 03:07 am
Bush or anyone is not behind 9-11 and if they were, what does it matter????

So according to you we should believe in the 9-11 Official lie of 9-11? Cool and every other lie by US government as well? like the WMD in Iraq? and Iraq links to Al-Ciada? hahaha, come on wake up from your dogmatism and cultism. I used to recieve the newspaper http://www.rwor.org and I do download MP3s from http://www.bobavakian.com I like what he has to say on 'Jeffersonian Democracy', however i let no man control my thoughts, specially those who skink like garlic :lol:

marxist_god [/b]
The point of that statement is that either way, it's capitalisms doing. You're going to get so obsessed with WHO did rather than WHAT caused it (capitalism). And I'm not a Maoist so I don't know how I take the works of Bob Avakian as dogma.

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by marxist_god+December 19, 2007 03:35 am--> (marxist_god @ December 19, 2007 03:35 am)
[email protected] 19, 2007 03:07 am
A new investigation would probably just show the incompetence of the government to prevent attacks on their country. Also it would bring the topic of their foreign policy into even bigger analysis (their relation to Saudi Arabia, etc). And that's the truth. The government (no matter what it says) can't protect it's citizens and it's foreign policy (created by capitalism) would be exposed as the reason there was a terrorist attack.

Bush or anyone is not behind 9-11 and if they were, what does it matter???? It's still capitalism (either way) doing bad to people and creating death and destruction.

By the way who was the author of that 'new investigation' that says that Bush wasn't behind 9-11? hmm, sounds like the Lawyers of Bush


marxist_god [/b]
First I don't care because I'm still (whether Bush did it nor not) going to fight capitalism (therefore by logic, I'll be fighting Bush too since he's a capitalist).

Second, you don't seem very educated on the subject of revolutionary leftism so I'll ask you for the millionth time:

1) What is dialectal materialism?

2) Can you give me, in your own words, an example of it being used?

Can you answer those questions so that we can know, to what extent, you know about the works of Marx (since your name is marxist_god)???

[SouthernBelle82]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 03:07 am
A new investigation would probably just show the incompetence of the government to prevent attacks on their country. Also it would bring the topic of their foreign policy into even bigger analysis (their relation to Saudi Arabia, etc). And that's the truth. The government (no matter what it says) can't protect it's citizens and it's foreign policy (created by capitalism) would be exposed as the reason there was a terrorist attack.

Bush or anyone is not behind 9-11 and if they were, what does it matter???? It's still capitalism (either way) doing bad to people and creating death and destruction.
What does it matter? It would matter a lot. Remember that a crime was committed so people who did the crime (stealing and murder) should have to be held accountable no matter who it is. A through investigation should be done. Why are you not wanting one? Wouldn't you like to know?

[SouthernBelle82]

Originally posted by bootleg42+December 19, 2007 05:03 am--> (bootleg42 @ December 19, 2007 05:03 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 03:33 am

[email protected] 19, 2007 03:07 am
Bush or anyone is not behind 9-11 and if they were, what does it matter????

So according to you we should believe in the 9-11 Official lie of 9-11? Cool and every other lie by US government as well? like the WMD in Iraq? and Iraq links to Al-Ciada? hahaha, come on wake up from your dogmatism and cultism. I used to recieve the newspaper http://www.rwor.org and I do download MP3s from http://www.bobavakian.com I like what he has to say on 'Jeffersonian Democracy', however i let no man control my thoughts, specially those who skink like garlic :lol:

marxist_god
The point of that statement is that either way, it's capitalisms doing. You're going to get so obsessed with WHO did rather than WHAT caused it (capitalism). And I'm not a Maoist so I don't know how I take the works of Bob Avakian as dogma. [/b]
Well capitalism can't be held accountable for the crime. Whoever did it can be.

[Tatarin]

Start with BCCI for example. Both the Bush family and the BinLadin family were members of that.

Indeed. It was even reported by CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2001/BUSINESS/09/26/binladen/).


I just agree with Chavez that there should be an independent investigation. Maybe the world court or something.

Well, I'm not against another investigation. If people wants it, then by all means. I just don't think they will find any devices or missiles planted by the US government.


Would you expect a police department to investigate one of their own officers if they did a crime? I'd be suspecious of it myself.

Of course I would be suspicious, and rightly so. But as I said before, the counter-claim has to be based by evidence. You can't expect anyone to listen if you just say the police story isn't the truth.


Well even the FBI has said they had no proof that BinLadin was directly involved in the crime. The crime happened on US soil so that would involve the FBI since it was an attack on a federal building.

Despite that, bin Laden is still on the FBI's most wanted list (http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/fugitives.htm). I would say they rather lack formal evidence.


Why would the Jewish people attack the US? We're their biggest financers. It doesn't make any sense. And without any type of investigation there can't be any proof.

I don't know, ask David Duke.

Nazis like him, and just like Hitler, believes that the Jews is a people "without a land", and thus are "parasites" to all other "races". Everything that is not nazi is therefore controlled (directly or indirectly) by the Jews. And since the Jews control the world, they also control the US, and why they would attack the US is a question you would have to ask the nazis.

After all, it's nazism.


The Bush government has lied about so much I'm not willing to believe them about this. Why should I?

It's not about believing in something, it's about the proof. It wasn't the government that did the investigation, it was scientists who do those kinds of investigations all day long.


So according to you we should believe in the 9-11 Official lie of 9-11?

The burden of proof is on you. If you have evidence against the official story, where is it?


Cool and every other lie by US government as well?

In that case, we must also believe that the Moon landing never happened, that it was filmed in a secret studio, and the austronauts silenced. That must be a true because the US government denies a moon landing conspiracy.


I used to recieve the newspaper http://www.rwor.org and I do download MP3s from http://www.bobavakian.com I like what he has to say on 'Jeffersonian Democracy', however i let no man control my thoughts, specially those who skink like garlic

Because denying a conspiracy naturally means being part of Avakian's cult.

[Tatarin]

Oh, one more thing. I found proof of that Alex Jones is insane:

Belly of the Beast anyone? (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Orj55fo1u9I)

[marxist_god]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 05:38 am

Start with BCCI for example. Both the Bush family and the BinLadin family were members of that.

Indeed. It was even reported by CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2001/BUSINESS/09/26/binladen/).


I just agree with Chavez that there should be an independent investigation. Maybe the world court or something.

Well, I'm not against another investigation. If people wants it, then by all means. I just don't think they will find any devices or missiles planted by the US government.


Would you expect a police department to investigate one of their own officers if they did a crime? I'd be suspecious of it myself.

Of course I would be suspicious, and rightly so. But as I said before, the counter-claim has to be based by evidence. You can't expect anyone to listen if you just say the police story isn't the truth.


Well even the FBI has said they had no proof that BinLadin was directly involved in the crime. The crime happened on US soil so that would involve the FBI since it was an attack on a federal building.

Despite that, bin Laden is still on the FBI's most wanted list (http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/fugitives.htm). I would say they rather lack formal evidence.


Why would the Jewish people attack the US? We're their biggest financers. It doesn't make any sense. And without any type of investigation there can't be any proof.

I don't know, ask David Duke.

Nazis like him, and just like Hitler, believes that the Jews is a people "without a land", and thus are "parasites" to all other "races". Everything that is not nazi is therefore controlled (directly or indirectly) by the Jews. And since the Jews control the world, they also control the US, and why they would attack the US is a question you would have to ask the nazis.

After all, it's nazism.


The Bush government has lied about so much I'm not willing to believe them about this. Why should I?

It's not about believing in something, it's about the proof. It wasn't the government that did the investigation, it was scientists who do those kinds of investigations all day long.


So according to you we should believe in the 9-11 Official lie of 9-11?

The burden of proof is on you. If you have evidence against the official story, where is it?


Cool and every other lie by US government as well?

In that case, we must also believe that the Moon landing never happened, that it was filmed in a secret studio, and the austronauts silenced. That must be a true because the US government denies a moon landing conspiracy.


I used to recieve the newspaper http://www.rwor.org and I do download MP3s from http://www.bobavakian.com I like what he has to say on 'Jeffersonian Democracy', however i let no man control my thoughts, specially those who skink like garlic

Because denying a conspiracy naturally means being part of Avakian's cult.



What does the moon landing has to do with 9-11? what does David Duke has to do with this? if he questions 9-11, that is his right, this is a free world, i cannot control David Duke's mind like Bob Avakian and the US elitist, dogmatic left controls the mind of their sheeps.

By the way what scientific authority you have to say that 9-11 was done by 19 crazy islamic terrorists? Post the evidence, show me the proofs

marxist_god

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2007 05:07 am
Second, you don't seem very educated on the subject of revolutionary leftism so I'll ask you for the millionth time:

1) What is dialectal materialism?

2) Can you give me, in your own words, an example of it being used?

Can you answer those questions so that we can know, to what extent, you know about the works of Marx (since your name is marxist_god)???
Hey marxist_god, can you answer those^^.

[Tatarin]

What does the moon landing has to do with 9-11?

You said that we couldn't trust anything the US government said. Why should we trust them when they say they landed on the moon?


what does David Duke has to do with this?

I don't know, you said you were ready to trust him on what he has to say about 9/11.


By the way what scientific authority you have to say that 9-11 was done by 19 crazy islamic terrorists? Post the evidence, show me the proofs

Do you know the meaning "burden of proof"? It seems you don't. The official story has clearly stated what happened. If you think something else happened, you have the burden to prove that other happening.

That is why I took the moon landing as an example. If you do not believe that Americans landed on the moon, you have the responsibility to provied evidence for that. If you just believe that, then that's your belief, and what you believe in is up to you.

Scientists do not prove the negative. Ask any scientist, and I'm sure you will recieve the same answer.

But for your convinience:

National Institute of Standards and Technology (WTC Website) (http://wtc.nist.gov/)
9-11 Commission Final Report (http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/)

Or why not ask Popular Mechanics yourself? Here's the contact information. (http://www.popularmechanics.com/marketing/contact/)