Intresting article on Jesus

[spartan]

This is an intresting article on Jesus and whether he was the messiah or a political revolutionary:
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/terry_..._bolshevik.html (http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/terry_eagleton/2007/12/jesus_messiah_or_bolshevik.html)

Thoughts?

[gilhyle]

Cant see it as very interesting. Eagleton is very banal.

So Jesus wasnt a revolutionary because he believed in a spiritual history rather than a material one....hmmm, thats not very interesting. Wht is interesting is what Christianity did with the concept of a spiritual history, particularly in the work of ST Augustine (City of God) - transforming a manichaean concept of spiritual history (which is not very interesting) back into an all-encompassing concept of history in which the purely cyclical character of material history is transformed by the supposedly spirtual character beneath/within the material.

[Dr Mindbender]

try telling this to the american bible belt. :rolleyes:

[Unapologetic Capitalist]

Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 04, 2007 08:04 pm
try telling this to the american bible belt. :rolleyes:
Actually, I'm pretty sure they'd agree. There's nothing very original in the article (in fact, it doesn't even really go against Biblical accounts).

No one claims Jesus was a political revolutionary.

[spartan]

No one claims Jesus was a political revolutionary.
Though you are probably refering to the article i will point out that Liberation Theoligists think that Jesus was a political revolutionary and so does Hugo Chavez for that matter.

[Brady]

I've just read a book on this subject, 'Jesus and Empire' by Richard Horsley. He claims that Jesus' teachings have been completely taken out of context by orthodox christianity, and that Jesus was actually opposed to Roman imperialism and its puppet rulers in King Herod and the Jerusalem high priests. His role was more of a social mission to heal the debilitating effects of imperial violence on the villages of Galilee and renewing the cooperative spirit in communities disintegrating under the economic pressure of having various taxes and tithes extracted from them by Rome and the Jerusalem establishment.

He makes a pretty good case for it too. The book ends by comparing the USA to the Roman Empire. I'm sure that particular analogy is hard for the American right to swallow.

[Unapologetic Capitalist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 09:23 pm

No one claims Jesus was a political revolutionary.
Though you are probably refering to the article i will point out that Liberation Theoligists think that Jesus was a political revolutionary and so does Hugo Chavez for that matter.
OK, let me rephrase. No one who actually studies the Bible could possibly construe Jesus as a political revolutionary (he openly denies it often enough).

Chávez and the Liberation Theologians are, at best, footnotes in Christological thought (warranting no more notice than the Cathars or other pseudo-Christian cults).

[synthesis]

Most things that are progressive for their time will be construed as reactionary centuries later, like capitalism, monotheistic religions, and the guillotine. That is the nature of history.

[spartan]

OK, let me rephrase. No one who actually studies the Bible could possibly construe Jesus as a political revolutionary (he openly denies it often enough).
That is because the Bible was writen by people who werent alive during Jesus's lifetime.

If you read some of the earliest Christian works on Jesus, such as the gospel of Thomas (Which isnt in the Bible), then you will see the true revolutionary character of Jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas

[Unapologetic Capitalist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 01:55 pm
That is because the Bible was writen by people who werent alive during Jesus's lifetime.

If you read some of the earliest Christian works on Jesus, such as the gospel of Thomas (Which isnt in the Bible), then you will see the true revolutionary character of Jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas
Even optimistic scholars think the Gospel of Thomas was written between 50-70 AD (same time as the Gospel of Mark). Others place it in the second century (after all the canonical Gospels).

The Gospel of Thomas is a Gnostic work, and therefore breaks with the tradition established by those who actually knew Jesus (the Council of Jerusalem, which, among other things, approved of Paul who hated Gnostic thought).

[Brady]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 01:55 pm

OK, let me rephrase. No one who actually studies the Bible could possibly construe Jesus as a political revolutionary (he openly denies it often enough).
That is because the Bible was writen by people who werent alive during Jesus's lifetime.

If you read some of the earliest Christian works on Jesus, such as the gospel of Thomas (Which isnt in the Bible), then you will see the true revolutionary character of Jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas
Maybe I'm missing something here but I've just read the gospel of Thomas and I cant see anything revolutionary in Jesus' words.

[spartan]

Maybe I'm missing something here but I've just read the gospel of Thomas and I cant see anything revolutionary in Jesus' words.
Yeah i worded that wrong.

The reason i pointed out the gospel of Thomas was to show the other more human side to Jesus which the other gospel writers rarely show.

I think that in the gospel of Thomas Jesus is never called "messiah" and many classical Christian concepts such as hell amongst others are not mentioned at all!

Jesus, IMO, was a Democratic Socialist and Pacifist (Though not always as he forcefully and violently removed the Capitalist marketmen and merchants from the holy grounds of the synagouge) who peacefully fought against the biggest Imperial power of the ancient world Rome and who, to appeal to the masses, incorporated religion, which was very popular with the majority of people in the ancient world, into his teachings.

Jesus early sayings , which were deliberately misquoted by the later gospel writers as they wanted Christianity to appeal more to rich people, was full of anti-rich quotes from Jesus.

Also here are two intresting links on other topics related to the gospel of Thomas which were discussed earlier on revleft:

http://www.revleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=...entry1292366388 (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=30&t=70051&st=0#entry1292366388)

http://www.revleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=...entry1292365831 (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=30&t=70009&st=0#entry1292365831)