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JimFar
2nd December 2007, 23:45
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071202/ts_nm/..._referendum_dc] (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071202/ts_nm/venezuela_referendum_dc)

Chavez wins Venezuela vote: sources

By Saul Hudson and Ana Isabel Martinez

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez appeared headed for victory on Sunday in a referendum on allowing the leftist to rule for as long as he keeps winning elections, government-linked sources said, citing exit polls.

Three exit polls showed the anti-American leader won by between six and eight percentage points in a vote where turnout was low, the two sources said.

If his victory is confirmed, the referendum vote on a raft of reforms would allow Chavez -- in office since 1999 -- to run for reelection indefinitely, control foreign currency reserves, appoint loyalists over regional elected officials and censor the media if he declares an emergency.

Chavez has said he wants to rule for life and turn the major oil exporter into a socialist state.

The opposition was skeptical of the government sources' exit poll data.

"According to our information, it is a statistical tie," said Leopoldo Lopez, a popular mayor of a Caracas municipality. He did not give details of any exit polls, other than to say the difference was "two points up, two points down."

Most pre-vote opinion surveys predicted a close vote on the package of constitutional changes that the opposition and even some former longtime allies say is authoritarian.

Pollsters had said a low turnout would favor Chavez, who activated a state-backed get-out-the-vote campaign against an underfunded, fragmented opposition.

The left-wing leader, a fierce critic of the United States and close ally of communist Cuba, has never lost a national vote and had predicted he would win by at least 10 points.

"SENT BY GOD"

Even before any official results' were announced, some of Chavez's supporters began to celebrate.

Dressed in red and waving Venezuela's red-blue-and-yellow national flag, they danced in the streets and drove cars and motorcycles around Caracas honking horns.

"The reform is very important for the country, we want to support our president," said Marlene Vanegas, 70, who described herself as a "full-time revolutionary" and Chavez loyalist. "he was sent to us by God."

The government-linked sources said two exit polls showed Chavez won 53 percent of the vote, compared with 47 percent for the "No" camp, and another showed 54 percent to 46 percent.

Led by a mix of political parties and university students, the opposition had pointed to some pre-referendum polls showing it could win.

It has lost to Chavez in almost yearly national votes and also failed to topple him with a coup in 2002, a national strike and a recall referendum.

Foreign investors worry that the opposition could contest the result if it suspects fraud, sparking political turbulence after a campaign marred by violent street clashes.

"(The vote) will deepen divisions and polarization," said Jesus Ghersi, 25, an engineering student serving as an official poll watcher for the opposition.

Many Venezuelans believed the vote was a pivotal moment for the OPEC nation.

"We decide the future," the El Nacional newspaper said in a headline that covered much of its front-page on Sunday.

Chavez wants the new constitution endorsed to give him a mandate to create a Cuba-inspired socialist state. After his landslide reelection a year ago, he decreed sweeping nationalizations, and promises more state intervention in the economy if he wins the referendum.

Opposition leaders complain his policies are a throwback to failed systems such as the Soviet Union and communist Cuba.

"If they approve this reform, as of midnight tonight we have turned into a communist country. I'm convinced of that," said Elias Martinez, 55, an actor.

(For more on Venezuela's referendum, click on http://www.reuters.com/news/globalcoverage/venezuela)

(Additional reporting by Fabian Andres Cambero, Patricia Rondon and Jorge Silva, Writing by Saul Hudson; Editing by Kieran Murray)

Copyright © 2007 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.

spartan
2nd December 2007, 23:50
YEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

This is great news!

Take that you Capitalist Imperialist dogs in Washington! :lol:

All those biased western mainstream news channels have a shit load of egg on their faces now! :D

Socialism 1 Capitalism 0 :lol:

I think this deserves some celebration!

Therefore i propose a toast to comrade Chavez and the Socialist Republic of Venezuela :redstar:

RedAnarchist
2nd December 2007, 23:51
"If they approve this reform, as of midnight tonight we have turned into a communist country. I'm convinced of that," said Elias Martinez, 55, an actor.


Was he playing the role of an idiot or something? :lol:

Zurdito
2nd December 2007, 23:52
I celebrate the defeat of the No campaign.

bootleg42
3rd December 2007, 00:04
Excellent news. And fuck that person who said "i think we'll become a communist country". That ***** doesn't even know the definition of communism. How the fuck can you have a "communist country"???? Explain that. Fucking people can be fucking stupid.

Que viva Chavez!!!
Que viva la revolución!!!!
Que viva El Che carajo!!!!

:hammer: :che: :marx: :engles: :castro: :redstar:

JWG
3rd December 2007, 00:38
This is good news to hear Communism has won out in Venezuela. I just hope things are successful and we show the world it is possible.

It is not over yet.

Raúl Duke
3rd December 2007, 00:45
Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 07:03 pm
Excellent news. And fuck that person who said "i think we'll become a communist country". That ***** doesn't even know the definition of communism. How the fuck can you have a "communist country"???? Explain that. Fucking people can be fucking stupid.

Que viva Chavez!!!
Que viva la revolución!!!!
Que viva El Che carajo!!!!

:hammer: :che: :marx: :engles: :castro: :redstar:
This misconception is wide-spread in my school filled with Venezuelan ex-pats.

Its annoying.

Reuben
3rd December 2007, 00:48
calm down guys. These results are based on exit polls. Do you remember exit polls suggesting thaty chavez had lost the recall referendum?

w0lf
3rd December 2007, 00:49
Great news!

But I bet they'll be accused of being terrorists and having "weapons of mass destruction" by the US now.

Cheung Mo
3rd December 2007, 00:51
Uh! Ah! Chavez no se va!
Uh! Ah! Chavez no se va!

Zurdito
3rd December 2007, 01:04
Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 12:47 am
calm down guys. These results are based on exit polls. Do you remember exit polls suggesting thaty chavez had lost the recall referendum?
but who was running those polls? could the abscence of such polls have somehting to do with Operation Pincer being exposed?

I think it was well known all along that Chavez would win this poll. even the CIA admitted it in those leaked documents.

marxist_god
3rd December 2007, 01:25
Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 11:44 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071202/ts_nm/..._referendum_dc] (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071202/ts_nm/venezuela_referendum_dc)

Chavez wins Venezuela vote: sources

By Saul Hudson and Ana Isabel Martinez

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez appeared headed for victory on Sunday in a referendum on allowing the leftist to rule for as long as he keeps winning elections, government-linked sources said, citing exit polls.

Three exit polls showed the anti-American leader won by between six and eight percentage points in a vote where turnout was low, the two sources said.

If his victory is confirmed, the referendum vote on a raft of reforms would allow Chavez -- in office since 1999 -- to run for reelection indefinitely, control foreign currency reserves, appoint loyalists over regional elected officials and censor the media if he declares an emergency.

Chavez has said he wants to rule for life and turn the major oil exporter into a socialist state.

The opposition was skeptical of the government sources' exit poll data.

"According to our information, it is a statistical tie," said Leopoldo Lopez, a popular mayor of a Caracas municipality. He did not give details of any exit polls, other than to say the difference was "two points up, two points down."

Most pre-vote opinion surveys predicted a close vote on the package of constitutional changes that the opposition and even some former longtime allies say is authoritarian.

Pollsters had said a low turnout would favor Chavez, who activated a state-backed get-out-the-vote campaign against an underfunded, fragmented opposition.

The left-wing leader, a fierce critic of the United States and close ally of communist Cuba, has never lost a national vote and had predicted he would win by at least 10 points.

"SENT BY GOD"

Even before any official results' were announced, some of Chavez's supporters began to celebrate.

Dressed in red and waving Venezuela's red-blue-and-yellow national flag, they danced in the streets and drove cars and motorcycles around Caracas honking horns.

"The reform is very important for the country, we want to support our president," said Marlene Vanegas, 70, who described herself as a "full-time revolutionary" and Chavez loyalist. "he was sent to us by God."

The government-linked sources said two exit polls showed Chavez won 53 percent of the vote, compared with 47 percent for the "No" camp, and another showed 54 percent to 46 percent.

Led by a mix of political parties and university students, the opposition had pointed to some pre-referendum polls showing it could win.

It has lost to Chavez in almost yearly national votes and also failed to topple him with a coup in 2002, a national strike and a recall referendum.

Foreign investors worry that the opposition could contest the result if it suspects fraud, sparking political turbulence after a campaign marred by violent street clashes.

"(The vote) will deepen divisions and polarization," said Jesus Ghersi, 25, an engineering student serving as an official poll watcher for the opposition.

Many Venezuelans believed the vote was a pivotal moment for the OPEC nation.

"We decide the future," the El Nacional newspaper said in a headline that covered much of its front-page on Sunday.

Chavez wants the new constitution endorsed to give him a mandate to create a Cuba-inspired socialist state. After his landslide reelection a year ago, he decreed sweeping nationalizations, and promises more state intervention in the economy if he wins the referendum.

Opposition leaders complain his policies are a throwback to failed systems such as the Soviet Union and communist Cuba.

"If they approve this reform, as of midnight tonight we have turned into a communist country. I'm convinced of that," said Elias Martinez, 55, an actor.

(For more on Venezuela's referendum, click on http://www.reuters.com/news/globalcoverage/venezuela)

(Additional reporting by Fabian Andres Cambero, Patricia Rondon and Jorge Silva, Writing by Saul Hudson; Editing by Kieran Murray)

Copyright © 2007 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.

Hello my friend, we gotta celebrate, it is time to cheer. We socialists have been experiencing capitalist governments for so many years that this Socialist Constitution seems to me a big reason to be happy and positive !! This will lead to an increase in motivation to read marxist and leftist books. In fact I suspect that Hugo Chavez and Venezuela's socialism is increasing the sell of socialist books around the world :-)

Take care

marxist_god

marxist_god
3rd December 2007, 01:29
Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 12:03 am
Excellent news. And fuck that person who said "i think we'll become a communist country". That ***** doesn't even know the definition of communism. How the fuck can you have a "communist country"???? Explain that. Fucking people can be fucking stupid.

Que viva Chavez!!!
Que viva la revolución!!!!
Que viva El Che carajo!!!!

:hammer: :che: :marx: :engles: :castro: :redstar:

Communism is The Kingdom of God on earth

marxist_god

Diagoras of Melos
3rd December 2007, 02:25
Nm.I'll restrict hesitancy for now, until I finish researching a bit more.

Enragé
3rd December 2007, 02:27
does anyone have a link to the actual contents of the referendum? i.e, what exactly was voted upon?

marxist_god
3rd December 2007, 02:54
Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 02:26 am
does anyone have a link to the actual contents of the referendum? i.e, what exactly was voted upon?

Hello: u can go to http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/2943 it's an article about what the new constitution proposes in Venezuela

marxist_god

Enragé
3rd December 2007, 03:31
thnx :)

proves once again i shouldnt rely on bourgeois media to paint a picture even a tiny bit close to reality.

Sentinel
3rd December 2007, 03:46
Extremely inspiring, especially the initiatives striving towards direct democracy and worker's council power. The lowering of voting age from 18 to 16 is also an interesting detail. Overall, Chavez' revolution is a needed reminder for the left to remain undogmatic and positive to new models and forms of social progress, and overall it seems to constantly keep moving into the right direction.

I'm quite convinced, though, that this must eventually lead into an armed conflict with the guardians of the interests of international capitalism -- and I fear that day is not far away at all. Let's see how the US responds to the latest developments in the following months, if the referendum now indeed was a victory for the progressives.

bootleg42
3rd December 2007, 04:57
The U.S. has it's hands full. They'll give money to the right wing Cubans, Venezuelans and Bolivians based in Miami and they'll probably let them take care of it.

R_P_A_S
3rd December 2007, 05:20
when the hell does the official results come out??

Killer Enigma
3rd December 2007, 05:21
This thread has some of the most ignorant and fallacious posts I have witnessed on the entire board.

Nothing Human Is Alien
3rd December 2007, 05:28
CARACAS, Venezuela - A vote on sweeping constitutional reforms that could let Hugo Chavez hold the presidency for life remained unresolved early Monday, with the government saying it was too close to call and the opposition pressing for results.

Tensions grew as hours passed after the official close of voting with no announcement of results. The referendum on constitutional changes was a critical test for a leader bent on turning this major U.S. oil provider into a socialist state.

An emboldened opposition and clashes during student-led protests in recent weeks prompted fears of bitter conflict if either side disputed the results.

Opposition leader Henrique Capriles said early Monday that "the time has come to announce the results to the country." Capriles earlier had noted that 97 percent of polling stations are automated.

Another opposition spokesman Leopoldo Lopez, mayor of the Caracas district of Chacao, claimed earlier that results seen by election monitors "indicate the 'no' vote is going to win."

Caravans of Chavez's supporters had taken to the streets after polls closed, honking horns and blaring celebratory music in anticipation of victory. But their enthusiasm appeared to fade as the hours wore on.

"The result of the referendum is close," Vice President Jorge Rodriguez said from Chavez's campaign headquarters. "We will respect the result, whatever it is — even if it's by one single vote."

Chavez's opponents fear a win by the president could mean a plunge toward dictatorship. Supporters have faith that Chavez would use the reforms to deepen grass-roots democracy and more equitably spread Venezuela's oil wealth.

The changes would help transform the major U.S. oil provider into a socialist state. They would create new forms of communal property, let Chavez handpick local leaders under a redrawn political map, permit civil liberties to be suspended under extended states of emergency and allow Chavez to seek re-election indefinitely. Otherwise, he cannot run again in 2012.

Chavez warned opponents ahead of the vote he would not tolerate attempts to incite violence, and threatened to cut off oil exports to the U.S. if Washington interferes. Chavez calls those who resist his socialist agenda pawns of President Bush.

"He's going to be an elected dictator," 77-year-old voter Ruben Rozenberg said of Chavez. The retired blue jeans maker, who emigrated from Cuba in 1961, said that although Chavez's revolution is peaceful compared to that of Fidel Castro, "we've been violated all around" by the Venezuelan leader's progressive consolidation of power.

Across town, in a pro-Chavez slum, 40-year-old Jorge Blanco said Chavez "is giving power to the people" through the reforms.

"He opened that little door and now we're free." Of the wealthy elite, Blanco said: "What they fear is losing power."

The government touted pre-election polls showing Chavez with an advantage, while surveys cited by the opposition indicated strong resistance — unfamiliar territory for a leader who easily won re-election last year with 63 percent of the vote.

Casting his ballot, Chavez called the electronic voting system "one of the most modern in the world, one of the most transparent in the world."

His opponents have questioned the National Electoral Council's impartiality, however, especially after Chavez named Rodriguez, its former chief, his vice president in January.

About 100 electoral observers from 39 countries in Latin America, Europe and the United States were on hand, the electoral council said. Absent were the Organization of American States and the European Union, which have monitored past votes.

All was reported calm during voting but 45 people were detained, most for committing ballot-related crimes like "destroying electoral materials," said Gen. Jesus Gonzalez, chief of a military command overseeing security.

At a polling station in one politically divided Caracas neighborhood, Chavez supporters shouted "Get out of here!" to opposition backers who stood nearby aiming to monitor the vote count. A few dozen Chavistas rode by on motorcycles with bandanas and hats covering their faces, some throwing firecrackers.

Opponents — including Roman Catholic leaders, press freedom groups, human rights groups and prominent business leaders — fear the reforms would grant Chavez unchecked power and threaten basic rights.

Cecilia Goldberger, a 56-year-old voting in affluent eastern Caracas, said Venezuelans were being hoodwinked and do not really understand how Chavez's power grab will affect them.

She resented pre-dawn, get-out-the-vote tactics by Chavistas, including fireworks and reveille blaring from speakers mounted on cruising trucks.

"I refuse to be treated like cattle and I refuse to be part of a communist regime," the Israeli-born Goldberger said, adding that she and her businessman husband hope to leave the country.

Chavez sought to capitalize on his personal popularity ahead of the vote.

He is seen by many as a champion of the poor who has redistributed more oil wealth than any other leader in memory. Chavez, 53, says he will stay in power only as long as Venezuelans keep re-electing him — but has added that might be until 2050, when he would be 95 years old. The reforms would also grant Chavez control over the Central Bank and extend presidential terms from six to seven years.

Many Chavez supporters say he needs more time in office to consolidate his unique brand of "21st century socialism," and praise other proposed changes such as shortening the workday from eight hours to six, creating a social security fund for millions of informal laborers and promoting communal councils where residents decide how to spend government funds.

Tensions have surged in recent weeks as university students led protests and occasionally clashed with police and Chavista groups.

Some 140,000 soldiers and reservists were posted for the vote, the Defense Ministry said.

Electoral council chief Tibisay Lucena called the vote "the calmest we've had in the last 10 years."

R_P_A_S
3rd December 2007, 05:31
is it really that close to call???

what if the NO vote wins? what can be done? can there be an other YES campaign??

Raúl Duke
3rd December 2007, 10:27
Originally posted by Killer [email protected] 03, 2007 12:20 am
This thread has some of the most ignorant and fallacious posts I have witnessed on the entire board.
Yeah, like this:


Communism is The Kingdom of God on earth

Everyone is celebrating like if communism has been truly reached!

Although, as long as opposition to US imperialism continues strongly I could expect growing cynicism in the US for the "empire."

Yet other threads are now saying he lost... oh well.

Nothing Human Is Alien
3rd December 2007, 18:06
The ref. lost: http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=73875