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Connolly
30th November 2007, 19:09
What do you make of this....



""System justification refers to a social psychological tendency to defend and bolster the status quo, that is, to see it as good, fair, legitimate, and desirable. A consequence of this tendency is that existing social, economic, and political arrangements tend to be preferred, and alternatives to the status quo are disparaged. System justification refers, therefore, to an inherently conservative tendency to defend and justify the status quo simply because it exists, and sometimes even at the expense of individual and collective self-interest.

To understand how and why people accept and maintain the social systems that affect them, social psychologists have developed system justification theory. According to system justification theory, people not only want to hold favorable attitudes about themselves (ego-justification) and their own groups (group-justification), but they also want to hold favorable attitudes about the overarching social order (system-justification).

According to system justification theory, this motive is not unique to members of dominant groups, who benefit the most from the current regime; it also affects the thoughts and behaviors of members of groups who are harmed by it (e.g., poor people, racial/ethnic minorities, homosexuals). System justification theory therefore accounts for counter-intuitive evidence that members of disadvantaged groups often support the societal status quo (at least to some degree), often at considerable cost to themselves and to fellow group members.""

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_justification



This seems to make alot of sense, at least to me. It matches the exact attitudes you find amongst people generally - especially when trying to discuss or educate them about socialism.

Is this in any way contrary to Marxist thinking?, how does it affect the possibility of developing class consciousness when people, according to this, think in a "counter-intuitive" way and defend the system as it is?

Is this accurate, does it explain the conservative tendency you find amongst, at least here in Ireland, the vast majority of working people?

JazzRemington
30th November 2007, 21:09
This relates to ideology in some way, so it's not 100% counter to Marxism. In fact, this theory does make sense when you think about why the working class hasn't revolted yet or why whenver they did they ended up isntituting something that hurt them in the same way Capitalism did.

The theory seems kinda metaphysical and there doesn't seem to be any way of testing it, but it does make some sense.

Marxist1917
2nd December 2007, 19:50
This is not at all contrary to Marxist theory. Actually, Marx described this phenomenon as the ruling class ideology being taken up by all members of society. In the Communist Manifesto he writes that the ideology of each age has been the ideology of the ruling class.

However, Marxist theory also says something else. Eventually, as the means of production develop, social relations of production will become outdated. This will lead to the current ruling class ideology becoming outdated immidiately before a revolution to set up a new ruling class and a new ruling class ideology. So for most of the time under a mode of production the ideology of almost everyone will be the ideology of the ruling class, but immidiately before a class struggle to set up a new mode of production, the previous ideology will be thrown out in favor of the ideology of the next ruling class.

Hit The North
2nd December 2007, 20:49
If this is true for most people, how come for you and I and everyone else who posts on this forum it is not true? If it's an in-born psychological bias of the human condition, then why isn't it universal?

It strikes me as ironic that at the top of the wiki there is a disclaimer that "The creator of this article, or someone who has substantially contributed to it, may have a conflict of interest regarding its subject matter" as, arguably, it's usually an assessment of interests and a calculation of whether they can be satisfied pursuing various strategies which drives most people's attitude to the status quo.

Lynx
2nd December 2007, 21:57
Originally posted by Citizen [email protected] 02, 2007 04:48 pm
If this is true for most people, how come for you and I and everyone else who posts on this forum it is not true? If it's an in-born psychological bias of the human condition, then why isn't it universal?
What you don't know can hurt you. Understanding something or believing you understand something reduces the uncertainties surrounding it. What remains radical to others, becomes less radical for you.

Here's another psychological theory (I don't recall its name):
Given a number of choices, the choice which appears less radical to most people will tend to win.

Ergo, change is preferred over revolution. Even the word 'change' is preferred over the word 'revolution', just by its connotations alone.

Connolly
3rd December 2007, 01:15
If this is true for most people, how come for you and I and everyone else who posts on this forum it is not true? If it's an in-born psychological bias of the human condition, then why isn't it universal?

Well lets face it, it does match the general attitudes of most people (speaking for Ireland here, and I doubt attitudes change much elsewhere).

One reason we might not feel the same, is because we have bothered to read and convince ourselves otherwise. There is also other demographic reasons, such as age. There is an undoubtable tendency for people to become more conservative the older they get.

It might also be contrasted with other things. If a person is brought up following a shite football team because their father supported them, - they will defend it - despite the mounting evidence that they are shite.

From discussing socialism with people - there is that tendency for most to defend the status quo.

It must be a psychological bias for people to cling onto that which dosnt make sense. We ourselves have shifted that bias through education, or in other cases, social and economic conditions.