anapolis peace conference?

[shaolinworldwide]

(i am not sure if this is the right place to put this, move it if need be)

what are your sentiments regarding it? will anything be achieved as a result/was it beneficial?

just curious to hear some opinions...i assume the people on here are probably fairly well educated.

[Faux Real]

It's a faux-to (ha, get it?) opportunity.

All sides involved want to "legitimize" themselves in the eyes of their people who don't hold them up to a high regard.

Abbas is perceived as the illegitimate president and was not elected as such.

Omert is also unpopular and has been recently accused of corruption charges.

Condaleeza Rice, need I say more?

If any "deals" are struck they will be half-hearted at best, and likely to leave out Gaza as long as Hamas reigns there.

I would hate to see it happen, but the West Bank might decree a certain degree of "independence" from Gaza, not that the two haven't been split for quite some time now.

The people of all parties represented will likely not see this as something positive, unless they're force fed the corporate news.

[Tatarin]

I'm very skeptical about it. Why is this conference any different than the others before it? The very fact that Hamas is not there probably means that they will continue their attacks on Israel, and Israel will retaliate on all Palestinian land.

Secondly, Bush is there and that means nothing will happen. What in the world would make Israel withdraw or abandon their housing colonies and their walls on the West Bank. Will they even agree to stop expanding?

The media seldom speaks of the Israeli colonies. We often get the image that it is only those evil Palestinian terrorists who blow up stuff, and that Israel has to live with it. So far, I haven't heard anything about the colonies, and what is going to happen to them.

[Revolution Until Victory]

err...why is such a question is even being asked on a revolutionary leftist forum?

This is basically a negotiation attempt with imperialism and Zionism. A compromise and settlment with imperilaism. Thus, the results of a "succesful" Annapolis confrence would be yet more compromise with Zionism. why would anything be expected from it?

Such meetings, as well as the "peace" process, should be sabotaged to prevent any peaceful settlment or compromise with captilaist-imperialism and Zionist colonialism.


The very fact that Hamas is not there probably means that they will continue their attacks on Israel, and Israel will retaliate on all Palestinian land.

not only Hamas, but also the PFLP, Islamic Jihad and the rest of the factions.

[shaolinworldwide]

fair point.
what do you propose should be done then, if not negotiations?

[Revolution Until Victory]

fair point.
what do you propose should be done then, if not negotiations?

first of all, negotiations between a weak side that fights with irregular guerrillas against the powerful side with a conventional army are impossible, and will always be for the benifet of the powerful imperialist. Second of all, the colonized can't negotiate with his colonizer. The goal of the colonized masses is the total eradiction of colonialism; how will they be able to peacefully negotiate with thier enemy and demand it to dismantle? the meaning of negotiaitons in this context are an agreement on how the two people can live peacefully together, in other words, compromise. And lastly, negotiations with colonialism means compromise with colonialism. The only way to negotiate with your enemy is the rifle.

so the way to go is People's War, revolutionary violence, and popular guerrilla warfare; a national liberation struggle, an armed revolution led by the proletariat.

[shaolinworldwide]

how exactly would that be accomplished?
would they individually revolt against their own leaders and maintain the divisions, or do you think that the revolutionary palestinians and israelis would unite together for the cause? because it seems to me as if many of them don't want anything to do with each other.

[Revolution Until Victory]

would they individually revolt against their own leaders and maintain the divisions, or do you think that the revolutionary palestinians and israelis would unite together for the cause? because it seems to me as if many of them don't want anything to do with each other.

There can't be any unity between the colonized and the colonizer. That's why, there can't be any unity between a Palestinian and an "Israeli". What could take place is unity of the palestinian proletariate with the anti-zionist, anti-imperialist, anti-colonialist, anti-Israeli Jewish proletariat in Palestine.

[shaolinworldwide]

yeah that would make sense.

is it likely, though?
i'm (clearly) not really an expert on the issue so i don't know how prevalent anti-zionist, anti-imperialist, anti-colonialist, and anti-israeli jewish groups are... but i imagine they are not exactly common. that being the case, if the palestinian proletariat was to violently revolt, what would happen to the jews as a whole?

[Revolution Until Victory]

is it likely, though?

to be honest, you are right, there isn't a strong anti-Zionist, anti-colonialist, anti-imperialist, and anti-Israeli Jewish movmnet in Palestine.


that being the case, if the palestinian proletariat was to violently revolt, what would happen to the jews as a whole?

well, the Palestinian proletariat (along with the Palestinian national bourgeoisie) are currenlty revolting. Concering the fate of the Jewish people of Palestine, past colonial experiences would be a good predictor and example.

[Xiao Banfa]

Yeah absolutely agree with Revolution untill victory.

The palestinian organisations should only take part in negotiations from a position of strength.

Some unelected corrupt scumbag like Abbas is not the representative of the palestinian masses and hasn't achieved any victories against the zionist occupier.

I just wish the palestinians would stop supporting reactionaries like Hamas and the corrupt Fatah.

What's the strength of support for the PFLP and DFLP amongst the palestinians BTW?

[Revolution Until Victory]

What's the strength of support for the PFLP and DFLP amongst the palestinians BTW?

The DFLP since its begning was a bit controlled by Fatah. It have always called for a compromise with Zionism. The real communist force is the PFLP. The level of support for the PFLP is quiet strong, due to its firm and "radical" stance on the Zionist-Arab conflict, and due to its powerful operations, such as the assasination of the Zionist minister of tourism, and almost the daily operations against the Zionist invading forces in Nablus.

[Wanted Man]

Even Bush and Rice are for a "two-state solution". Goes to show how bankrupt that idea is. As it is, I fully agree with RUV. I also doubt that a lot of Palestinians will want to give up the right of return for such a "solution" and "peace".

[Dimentio]

It will mean nothing, due to the fact that the Hamas rule in Gaza efficiently will prevent any settlement which will have any impact.

[Guerrilla22]

It will be irrelevant. I'm not sure how anything can be accomplished by negociating with one half of the Palestinian authority. Also Israel has to actually be willing to respect any agreement made and be willing to make a few concessions, something that it so far has yet to do.

[Xiao Banfa]

The level of support for the PFLP is quiet strong

How strong?

[manic expression]

To answer the original question, if you want to know the fundamental truth about these "conferences": the Palestinians have absolutely no input. Whatsoever. That's basically it.

[Intifada]

Basically Bush et al are giving Abbas the run-around.