'Pirate Parties' and file-sharing advocacy

[Cult of Reason]

Sarkozy has recently unveiled a plan to target 'casual' file-sharers:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7110024.stm

However, what do people think of Pirate Parties, like the one in Sweden, and file-sharing advocacy?

Personally, my entertainment depends absolutely upon ways for me to 'steal' data; I have no CD collection except for my burned backups and system discs. Also, potentially almost on the verge of a lifestylist fantasy, I see a possibility for it to increase awareness of Communist ideas and attitudes as it is in many ways a Communistic system itself. The powers that be, however, are now attempting to curtail our freedoms over the 'net, what with plans being set in motion in the UK and in France, above.

So, how can we prevent such travesties from happening, and keep our little bit of non-Capitalist distribution alive? How can we get more people both to 1. get involved in file-sharing and to a larger degree, so that it is habitual and 2. to make those already involved lose any guilt they may have about 'stealing' and so make them more useful to us, possibly even seeing the implications of Communism and Anarchy is a positive light that can then be applied to the more material world?

Especially since the reaction to this activity on the part of the powers is increasing in intensity and focus, though hopefully not effect, I think it is very important that something is done to stop them. A good old-fashioned demo, maybe, or something more? This I see as an opportunity to get a larger section of the population, particularly the young, 'involved' in things and therefore exposed to our influence if something like this can be done right.

It should be pretty easy to get the word out, I think, using programs, such as DC++, that have built-in chat functions and instant messengers and, like DC++, are used on university campuses for high-speed transfer, which would make it easier to contact people from your area if you are at that uni.

[/end rant]

So, thoughts?

[Faux Real]

Most governments already know that if they begin to target and "take out" large segments of their "pirates" they'll become widely unpopular with the people, since I believe just about everyone does it.

If and when they do indeed come after the file-sharing community that is a perfect opportunity to lift the veil of the capitalist system at its finest, and it would definitely usher people towards leftist sentiment seeing that they're being targeted.

Pirate Parties are good IMO because of the obvious reasons (piracy rulez), they can also create a discussion concerning the origin of intellectual property, property itself, and ultimately alternatives to social arrangements based off of private property.

They're popping up slowly but surely around the globe noawadays.

[BobKKKindle$]

Pirate Parties are good IMO because of the obvious reasons (piracy rulez), they can also create a discussion concerning the origin of intellectual property, property itself, and ultimately alternatives to social arrangements based off of private property.

I'd be interested to know the composition of these organizations and their political orientation on other issues not directly connected with the main point of concern. Are they comprised primarily of young leftists or is there a diverse mix?

[Faux Real]

I would think most would lean left, but the platform these parties generally put out are single-issue, but they could very well develop into leftist parties (or redirect more apathetic/right-wing people towards leftism). The founders of such parties, from the one's I've seen, are very well versed in leftist thought.

Look up Steal this Film for more.

[Tatarin]

Well, the Swedish Pirate Party advocates both "piracy" and a stop to increased surveillace. See this interview with the party leader (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3092502920330176759&q), for example.

[farleft]

Sorry to dig up an old thread but it didnt seem worth starting a new one on pirate parties.

Anyway...

Are there are members of RevLeft that are also members of any Pirate Party and if so which country?

The Pirate Party UK (http://www.pirateparty.org.uk) - They are a fairly new group added to the electoral register of which I am getting involved with, see how their policies outside the main 3 core values (found on their website) take shape.

[Spawn of Stalin]

They seem like they have good intentions but they should really start talking about the root of the problem, and that's capitalism.

[farleft]

Yeah but unlike other parties this works from the bottom up, not the top down (and they are not "career politicians") so it's up to the members to stear the party in that direction (which is what I am trying to do on their forum and in meetings).

[Spawn of Stalin]

I see, then a group like that should be easy pickings for potential leftist converts, and I imagine that and attempt to radicalise the party as a whole would not be met with too much resistance.

[farleft]

I see, then a group like that should be easy pickings for potential leftist converts, and I imagine that and attempt to radicalise the party as a whole would not be met with too much resistance.

That is certainly the impression I have got since joining up a few weeks ago and attending their first East Midlands, UK meeting.

[L.J.Solidarity]

Here in Germany, the Pirate party has over 8000 members and is likely to win about 2% of the vote in the elections on sunday. Although I don't think they're ever going to get anywhere close to winning seats in a state parliament or the Bundestag, they're hyped by the media at the moment and many young people (I think even some who aren't classical geeks) are going to vote for them or even joined the party.
However, they refuse to take a position on anything except the internet, CCTV cameras and other forms of surveillance, and education (they're against tuition fees, but that's about it). Ideologically they're definitely liberals, within the party there are both "left liberals" and neoliberals but apparently not much more. I guess there would be a split if they ever try to write anything about economy or any other topic outside their narrow focus into their programme, so probably it's not going to happen. That's not really a problem for them because their voters and most members don't care about much besides the internet and what the pirates call "civil rights".

[farleft]

Yeah there numbers are pretty big, even here in the UK where they have only just set up there numbers are in the thousands.

Pirate Party of Sweden has an MEP and in a local French by-election a candidate got just over 2% which isn't too bad for a newbie party.

Additional: Again I would just like to add that opinions outside the 3 core values are being formulated as we speak, obviously this will take some time but it is being worked on.

[L.J.Solidarity]

Are they working on it at an international level or just in some of the national parties?
As far as I know, the Swedish pirates officially declared they would never ever broaden their programme, and in Germany I think the party's split in half on the topic, some members even were against adding a paragraph on education to their political platform.

[farleft]

Are they working on it at an international level or just in some of the national parties?
As far as I know, the Swedish pirates officially declared they would never ever broaden their programme, and in Germany I think the party's split in half on the topic, some members even were against adding a paragraph on education to their political platform.

Each countries Pirate Party is independent so it's up to each one to choose which direction they want to take.

[L.J.Solidarity]

Obviously the Pirate Party in Germany has right-wing tendencies in it. Thilo Sarrazin, former Berlin senator from the SPD said in an interview that "90% of Arab and 70% of Turkish immigrants are only economically useful for vegetable trade", that immigrants "only produce little girls with headscarfs" and that those immigrants "who have abilities and ambition" could live in Germany, while the majority should "go somewhere else".
This caused a media controversy, and the pirates had a poll on the topic in their forum. 55% of the users think that what Sarrazin said is true, while only 32% say his comments are racist. Also, the fact that the Pirates' Berlin state organisation supported protests against a big neo-nazi march today met with resistance from many forum users who say that the nazi's right to free speech must not be limited by protests and that "left-wing extremists" and/or "the antifa" were much worse than fascists anyway.
It is also known that some so-called "autonomous nationalists" and other (ex-)nazis have joined the Pirate Party.
Do racist and/or fascist tendencies like that also exist in other country's PPs?

[Dimentio]

In Sweden, the leader of the Pirate Party is an anarcho-capitalist. But anarcho-capitalists in Sweden are generally anti-racist (unlike in USA) and often quite anti-imperialist and anti-zionist.

I think the reason why Pirate Parties tend to attract young right-wingers in Europe, is that men generally vote to the right, while women generally vote to the left, and young males are the group which mostly are using the internet.

I have actually talked with both young males and young females about the success of the Pirate Party in the European Parliament after the election. The young males (whether left-wing or right-wing) were overwhelmingly positive, while the young females thought it was "horrible" and said that it diverted attention from issues like third world aid, labour rights and social issues to the issues whether "acne-ridden geeks should have the right to download porn for free".

I think one of the reasons that the Swedish Pirate Party got so popular amongst males than females is that females generally are "doing" things. Swedish females are very dedicated to getting themselves a life and generally care more about politics than males. The males are more shrugging their shoulders and doesn't care if the world explodes tomorrow. At least in my community, that seems to be the order of things.

[Crux]

I'd be interested to know the composition of these organizations and their political orientation on other issues not directly connected with the main point of concern. Are they comprised primarily of young leftists or is there a diverse mix?
I think the swedish pirate party could be said to have a liberal dominance, ideologically. Certainly most leading members, including the MEP, com from the right. Further more polls showed that in the european election they also had comparatively many, I don't remember the exact numbers, but something like 15%, Swedendemocrat sympathizers among their voters.

[MaoTseHelen]

However, what do people think of Pirate Parties, like the one in Sweden, and file-sharing advocacy? All for it.

[Revy]

I can see them having appeal to people who like the "lulz" of being part of a Pirate Party. Which is not to say that is what it is like for every person who joins.

[noway]

power to file sharing...and file sharers..dont back down..they cant arrest you all

[Yazman]

Most governments already know that if they begin to target and "take out" large segments of their "pirates" they'll become widely unpopular with the people, since I believe just about everyone does it.

If and when they do indeed come after the file-sharing community that is a perfect opportunity to lift the veil of the capitalist system at its finest, and it would definitely usher people towards leftist sentiment seeing that they're being targeted.

Pirate Parties are good IMO because of the obvious reasons (piracy rulez), they can also create a discussion concerning the origin of intellectual property, property itself, and ultimately alternatives to social arrangements based off of private property.

They're popping up slowly but surely around the globe noawadays.

Fuck, well I had something typed up but this is just such a great articulation.

[Bitter Ashes]

I support the pirates as it becomes clear with this graph thier decline has lead to dangerous global warming!
http://www.seanbonner.com/blog/archives/piratesarecool.jpg

*Ahem*
/humour off

I do actualy think these groups are worth supporting. When you think about it, they're basicly grassroots projects set up to oppose capitalist copyrights and the state. They have become organised, which obviously is a good thing. They should be nurtured to remember that this sort of idealisim applies to many other things in thier everyday life that bugs them too and dealing with it is the same idea too; agitate, educate, organise.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

These Pirate Parties are not actually challenging the source of piracy and spreading a positive message to the source of the problem. They simply advocate piracy, they have no concept of class struggle or revolutionary politics. Simply a distraction for our struggle.

[Crux]

These Pirate Parties are not actually challenging the source of piracy and spreading a positive message to the source of the problem. They simply advocate piracy, they have no concept of class struggle or revolutionary politics. Simply a distraction for our struggle.
Well, yeah, exactly, if anything the left should "hijack" these questions from the "Pirate movement". Heh. Hijack.

[Tatarin]

These Pirate Parties are not actually challenging the source of piracy and spreading a positive message to the source of the problem. They simply advocate piracy, they have no concept of class struggle or revolutionary politics. Simply a distraction for our struggle.

I think the pirate-movement is quite a crossroads, if you think about it. Internet piracy, or rather the right to "do it" without being punished, is in the heart of the property question. They are not against private property, but they advocate copying of it.

But the producers simply do not have any choice. The only way they can make money is selling static CD's and DVD's. Because any other program will sooner or later be cracked by someone, and files will be free to share again. New surveillance rules? Then a company makes a program to protect the identity of the peers.

The Swedish pirate party got a full 7% in the EU elections. That is something to consider. And it also shows that people do react at some point, that they can no longer sit at their computers and shut out the problems.

[Crux]

I think the pirate-movement is quite a crossroads, if you think about it. Internet piracy, or rather the right to "do it" without being punished, is in the heart of the property question. They are not against private property, but they advocate copying of it.

But the producers simply do not have any choice. The only way they can make money is selling static CD's and DVD's. Because any other program will sooner or later be cracked by someone, and files will be free to share again. New surveillance rules? Then a company makes a program to protect the identity of the peers.

The Swedish pirate party got a full 7% in the EU elections. That is something to consider. And it also shows that people do react at some point, that they can no longer sit at their computers and shut out the problems.
Well, yeah, but the Pirate Party success is hardly one-sided. As a one question movement that explicitly refuses to take a stand on other questions it is easily taken in a liberal direction, indeed the pirate party was founded by liberals. There were also some libertarian left elements that were quite strong in the pirate movement, prior to the pirate party, that now have been pretty much outmanouvered.

Yes and to "them" that's proof that the "free market works". Again, given we live under a pro-capitalist hegemony it's not unsurprising that a a one-question movement would take this direction. Especially since it's against taking a stance on other issues, which is supporting the status quo. So yeah, see my other post.

[Tatarin]

I don't know really. When they first emerged the only question they had at hand was free netpiracy. But that piracy can be prevented, and punished, by the use of surveillance. So they went against that too.

I think that sooner or later, they must take stands on other issues as well. Internet costs money, computers are too expensive, energy questions, and so on. What about the question of terrorism and child pornography?

[farleft]

These Pirate Parties are not actually challenging the source of piracy and spreading a positive message to the source of the problem. They simply advocate piracy, they have no concept of class struggle or revolutionary politics. Simply a distraction for our struggle.

This is true but as I stated before, it is up to the members to give the party direction and formulate other policies, please remember that the Pirate Party UK (PPUK) is very new and only has 3 policies as of yet.

PPUK could very easily become a strong left-wing force, it would be very much worthwhile for leftists to join us and push it in that direction.

[Crux]

I don't know really. When they first emerged the only question they had at hand was free netpiracy. But that piracy can be prevented, and punished, by the use of surveillance. So they went against that too.

I think that sooner or later, they must take stands on other issues as well. Internet costs money, computers are too expensive, energy questions, and so on. What about the question of terrorism and child pornography?
It might provoke a split but probably not by much. As I said those left forces previously involved in the priate movement are no longer, and those who still could be said, in a general sense, to be on the left are far to wishywashy to actually try and challenge the status quo and liberal consensus in the pirateparty.

Well, look at where the green movement are today, and they started out with a far more pronounced left-position than the pirate movement. I mean the stated purpose of the pirate movement by leading representatives is to be a pressure group on the liberals. Ask yourself this, would you support a pirate party that shares the opinion of rightwing liberals on every question but the pirate questions?

[Dimentio]

I think the swedish pirate party could be said to have a liberal dominance, ideologically. Certainly most leading members, including the MEP, com from the right. Further more polls showed that in the european election they also had comparatively many, I don't remember the exact numbers, but something like 15%, Swedendemocrat sympathizers among their voters.

Their second MEP candidate actually is a young woman with far left sympathies. If the Lissabon Treaty is voted through, the Pirate Party would get one more MEP and she is on the line.