Chavez: President For Life

[NoStateEver]

Heard about this on the Jon Stewart show. According to the Washington Post...

"I've proposed, and we're writing the proposal for the indefinite reelection of the president of the republic," Chavez said to applause.

Source Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7011000468.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/10/AR2007011000468.html)

Indefinite Reelection/Persident For Life/Dictator. Interesting... Of course, it's not the first time the theory of Marxism-Leninism would lead to an Authoritarian, Top-Down government without any check from the people. Of course, can't blame a theory for what people do. Several months ago, Chavez attempt to amalgamate the Leftist parties in Venezuela to a single, Pro-Chavez political party, and besides that, he shut down the television stations of all opposition. When that topic was displayed here, I made quite a fuss about how that was clearly *NOT* in the spirit of Democracy. As Orwell said, "If Freedom of Speech means anything, it means the right to say what people don't want to hear." Of course, big loss for Venezuela to lose to right-wing, brainless propaganda; that wasn't the point. It wasn't about the bourgeoisie presence in Venezuela that is so disturbing, as it is the burgeoning power of state authority.

Shutting down those TV stations was just the first step; Now Chavez has officially said it. PRESIDENT FOR LIFE!!!

"For every throne there's a thousand graves." -- Propagandhi

[bootleg42]

Are you fucking kidding me????

First people have to elect him every "x" amount of years and they can call referendum on him halfway through a term.

Second, your defending RCTV???? WTF??? This was a private right wing TV station that called for the killing of chavez and who created violence that killed many poor people.

Plus there is still other dirty TV stations who oppose him like golovision so I don't see how the government is shutting down every opposition channel.

You're critizing Chavez from the right so you can go fuck yourself in the ass buddy or get more informed of what's going on in Venezuela other than a fucking comedy show and U.S. bourgeoisie press.

[Everyday Anarchy]

This sounds very sketchy and no doubt Chavez and his cronies have some underhanded plan to go along with this. Indefinite re-election is not necessarily a dictatorship.

With only a Pro-Chavez party, however, indefinite reelection ensures that Chavez can continue his reign. Why do leftists support this clown?

[TC]

By that definition nearly every western prime minister is a "prime minister for life" since they can run for unlimited consecutive terms, hey, every American senator is a "senator for life".

This is just immature anti-communist propaganda. Chavez isn't a 'president for life' or 'elected indefinitely', he still has to stand for election every time his term expires and can be recalled at any time by popular petitions (a system almost unique, save for Cuba), the new constitution simply ends the prohibition on standing for consecutive terms.

Americans only fetishize a two term limit because the country is so undemocratic and all realistic presidential candidates so politically similar that they need to rotate their figureheads to make people think theres any real choice. Instead of being able to choose different policies, Americans can only choose different people who implement the same policies. Venezuela doesn't have this problem so it can allow the people to elect whomever they want to be president, even someone who has (shockingly) already served as president. Thats all thats happening here.

[msucommie77]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 08:54 pm
Are you fucking kidding me????

First people have to elect him every "x" amount of years and they can call referendum on him halfway through a term.

Second, your defending RCTV???? WTF??? This was a private right wing TV station that called for the killing of chavez and who created violence that killed many poor people.

Plus there is still other dirty TV stations who oppose him like golovision so I don't see how the government is shutting down every opposition channel.

You're critizing Chavez from the right so you can go fuck yourself in the ass buddy or get more informed of what's going on in Venezuela other than a fucking comedy show and U.S. bourgeoisie press.
you sir, win!

to NoStateEver, perhaps you should watch: 'The Revolution Will Not Be Televised'

see it on google video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=58...earch&plindex=3 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144&q=The+Revolution+Will+Not+Be+Televised&total=154&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3)

[Herman]

Wow... there are so many mistakes and so much misinformation. I have no idea how you could come up with such anti-leftist rethoric. It's like you're regurtitating bourgeois propaganda.


Indefinite Reelection/Persident For Life/Dictator. Interesting... Of course, it's not the first time the theory of Marxism-Leninism would lead to an Authoritarian, Top-Down government without any check from the people.

Firstly, Chavez is not a marxist-leninist. He's not even a marxist. He advocates "Socialism of the 21st century" and not marxism. He has however made references to Trotsky, Lenin and Marx, but that's it.

Second, he is not going to be a "president for life". Indefinite reelection means that he can offer himself as candidate for presidency as many times as he wants, something which France, Germany and the UK also have.


Of course, can't blame a theory for what people do. Several months ago, Chavez attempt to amalgamate the Leftist parties in Venezuela to a single, Pro-Chavez political party,

And that's bad? Uniting the left is wrong? Ah, sectarianism at its finest!


and besides that, he shut down the television stations of all opposition.

What...? HAHAHAHA!

My god... my god... poor little fellow, how misinformed you are!

Here's a little something for you: He refused to renew the license of RCTV, a privately-owned media station. Just ONE. And why? It was involved with the coup d'etat of 2002, which overthrew Chavez, a democratically elected president, for a small period of time. You know, any government would have done the same.


When that topic was displayed here, I made quite a fuss about how that was clearly *NOT* in the spirit of Democracy. As Orwell said, "If Freedom of Speech means anything, it means the right to say what people don't want to hear."

And of course Orwell is the best example of a socialist, isn't he?


Of course, big loss for Venezuela to lose to right-wing, brainless propaganda; that wasn't the point. It wasn't about the bourgeoisie presence in Venezuela that is so disturbing, as it is the burgeoning power of state authority.

There has never been more grassroots power in Venezuela than now. Perhaps you've heard of the famous Communal Councils that are so very popular in Venezuela right now?


Shutting down those TV stations was just the first step;

One TV station, ONE. And he didn't "shut it down" either.


Now Chavez has officially said it. PRESIDENT FOR LIFE!!!

No he hasn't! He has said that he wanted to end term limits! IT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING, YOU GOOSE!

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

One TV station, ONE. And he didn't "shut it down" either.

Fun fact: "1962: The FCC withholds the license renewals of KPFA, KPFB, and KPFK pending its investigation into 'communist affiliations.'"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPFK

[RedStarOverChina]

Here's a little something for you: He refused to renew the license of RCTV, a privately-owned media station. Just ONE. And why?

And that's just on the air---RCTV is still availiable on cable and via satellite dish. It just won't be able to use the public air wave. You know, because of that thing they did trying to overthrow Chave and to consolidate and justify the rule of the short-lived American pupet regime.


If Fox News gets taken off the air would you cry foul too? Geewiz, we've got a true libertarian at our hands here.

[Sam_b]

Top-Down government

Well, seeing as Chavez has armed the people, and that 2 million were out in the streets of Caracas to defend him; if he puts a foot wrong you're sure as hell that the workers are going to do something about it.

With the guns that they have, Chavez cannot do anything to undermine the revolutionary process. Far from this idea of 'dictator' that has been argued.

[Comrade Rage]

NSE is simply propagating more divisive anti-leftist hetoric. Whether this guy is an anarchist who can't see the difference between Bush and Chavez, or if he is a troll.

Fail.

[Marxist Napoleon]

Anyway, Chavez said he would step down in 2030, no matter what. I will support him as long as he does what he says. This is the only way he can prove he was never in politics for personal gain. Regardless of what Chavez does in 2030, I will always support the socialist revolution, as long as it remains true to the people.

[bootleg42]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 12:10 am
Firstly, Chavez is not a marxist-leninist. He's not even a marxist. He advocates "Socialism of the 21st century" and not marxism. He has however made references to Trotsky, Lenin and Marx, but that's it.


An interesting thing about that.

His brother, Adan Chavez, is a well known Marxist. Chavez at around 1998 and 2001 said he's not a socialist and yet we all know what happened. Chavez has criticized the Marxists-Leninists in Venezuela because they tend to be dogmatic BUT he has said that that Marxist-Leninism itself is a good thing (on his show Alo Presidente) but that the ones in Venezuela (referring to the Venezuelan Communist party) tend to be dogmatic and at some times stupid (they supported the state during Chavez's first coup attempt and they supported Rafael Caldera). He has stated, many times, that communism itself is a good thing.

So I'm not saying he's a marxist NOW or that he's a communist but don't leave out the chance that he turns more and more radical (since he has been BECAUSE the masses have been becoming more radical) and that he could turn marxist. The people are turning that way and now that marxism is being taught in many areas and in schools in Venezuela, that could mean a turn to more radical positions.

[Guest1]

Considering this topic begins with the CIA-backed lie that unlimited reelection=dictatorship, I'm moving it to OI.

Very few countries in Europe have limits on how man times a prime minister can be elected, people being given the option to continue voting for Chavez is not dictatorship.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

21st century socialism scares the corporate media. The prospect of democratic socialism having a foothold in the world is not something they can tolerate. Interestingly enough, Chavez has done more for the American poor than our own president.

[Herman]

Fun fact: "1962: The FCC withholds the license renewals of KPFA, KPFB, and KPFK pending its investigation into 'communist affiliations.'"

Very witty, but RCTV is still being aired, just not, like RSOC said, in the public wave. And most of the Venezuelan media is still privately owned, like the famous Globovision.

[Tower of Bebel]

Originally posted by NSE
and besides that, he shut down the television stations of all opposition.

False!

Btw, When Chavez sanctioned a television station Sarkozy placed his former campaign leader Laurent Solly at the head of TF-1, an important French television station. Also, you know how much influence Silvio Berlusconi had on the Italian media. Chavez messures against the media are small talk if you look at some European and especially Russian cases (Putin shuts down every critical media center if he can).

[Robert]

The commies clearly win the "debate" in this thread, though I don't think "no state ever" has reappeared.

Chavez was democratically elected and is being judged in the USA, maybe unfairly, by the company he keeps, specifically Castro, the wacky Ahmadinejad, and I think the harmless Daniel Ortega. That's like comparing Roosevelt to Stalin because they toasted each other at Yalta and Roosevelt called him "Uncle Joe." But forgive us if Chavez's move to give himself possibilities of perpetual re-election at least raises our eyebrows. I would think that no one should be completely comfortable with a politician of such ambition.

I concede that there is no difference between a constitution permitting perpetual re-election of the prez of Venezuela and that of the USA permitting the same for senators, or France & the UK (?) permitting the same for its prime ministers. I support term limits for all public officials. Individual Senators do not, however, have nearly the power of any president. They are not, for example, commanders in chief of armed forces.