Is stereotyping people racist?

[spartan]

Now quite a while back a person printed out a picture of a leperacon from a computer (dont ask me why because i have forgotten) who was in the full stereotypical Irish green 18th century outfit etc.

When i saw it i said that it was racist but then this person said that it was'nt racist at all but stereotyping at which point i thought to myself "well what's the difference?".

There can be, i suppose, positive stereotypes (especially national stereotypes) but when it comes to racial stereotypes that to me is when stereotyping firmly crosses over the line from harmless characteristics into racism.

The way i see it though is stereotyping lumps together similar people as this or that which is unfair (especially when it comes to national and racial stereotypes as you then expect everyone similar to the stereotype to be a certain, sometimes wrong, way i.e. stereotypical).

What is your opinion on this?

Is stereotyping inheritently racist?

Or does it depend on whether it is a "good" or "bad" stereotype?

[Comrade Rage]

I would say it is racist as long as it is based on race. I don't think a Leprechaun would qualify as racist, as it is from Irish folklore rather than a stereotype about Irishmen themselves.

[TC]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 07:36 pm
Now quite a while back a person printed out a picture of a leperacon from a computer (dont ask me why because i have forgotten) who was in the full stereotypical Irish green 18th century outfit etc.

When i saw it i said that it was racist but then this person said that it was'nt racist at all but stereotyping at which point i thought to myself "well what's the difference?".
Thats ridiculous, its neither racist nor stereotyping. Depicting mythical creatures from ireland as wearing outfits common in rural ireland in the 18th century doesn't stereotype irish people nor does it reflect anything on them at all, racist or otherwise.

That would be like saying that depicting St. George slaying a dragon while wearing "stereotypical" 14th century English armor would "racist" against the english or depicting Zeus wearing a "stereotypical" 4th century bce greek toga outfit is "racist" against greeks.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Racism is a means of oppression. Nobody in Ireland or of Irish origin suffers oppression because of the depiction of leprechauns. A stereotype can only be said to be racist when it perpetuates a falsehood for which a given ethnic group is oppressed.

[Red Scare]

If it was a picture of an Irishman getting drunk then that would most definitely be a negative stereotype, even though it is rarely accurate people usually associate the two.

[LSD]

The way i see it though is stereotyping lumps together similar people as this or that which is unfair (especially when it comes to national and racial stereotypes as you then expect everyone similar to the stereotype to be a certain, sometimes wrong, way i.e. stereotypical).

Stereotyping is oversimplifying cultures and peoples so as to characterize the "typical" qualities of some group of people. Racism is using negative stereotypes to make a normative statement regarding said group.

They are both biased and unscientific, but they are by no means the same thing.

If I say that College professors are leftists, I am speaking stereotypically, and I'm also vastly overgeneralizing. But I'm certainly not being a bigot or discriminating against anyone. And while I'm not being scienfically accurate, I am accurate insofar as most professors do tend to be left of centre.

Stereotypes only become dangerous when they're believed to be complete, otherwise, they're convenient short-hands for complex sociological phenomena. It's something that we're cognetively wired to do no matter what, so it's probably best not to fight it. Furthermore, acknowledging a stereotype, or even employing one, is not harmful so long as one is aware that it is just a short-hand and not a reflection of reality.

So dressing some mythical 18th century Irish figure in stereotypical Irish outfits does not denegrate the Irish culture or people.

I don't know exactly what your leperacon was wearing, but my bet is it wasn't striclty accurate mythic dress. Rather, it was probably an imagining of what a "typical" leperacon would wear.

In other words, a stereotype ...but a harmless one.

[¡Viva la Libertad!]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 07:36 pm
There can be, i suppose, positive stereotypes
Well, yeah, if you look at it from a certain point of view "all Asians are smart" could be seen as a "good stereotype". The parents of Asian-American children and teens usually push them hard. That's just how it is. However, it is generalizing to say that because this is so ALL Asians are smart. What if an Asian person is smart because he/she worked very hard on their own? So, in reality, there is no such thing as a positive stereotype. Generalization and absolutes in racial features amount to nothing.

[Ol' Dirty]

Racism is the belief that there is a racial hierarchy, e.g. whites are better than blacks, blacks are better than whites, Asians are smarter than other people, yaddah yaddah. This leprachaun thing isn't racist, because leprachauns are inherently awesome and no-one with a mind would doubt that.

[MarxSchmarx]

Well, yeah, if you look at it from a certain point of view "all Asians are smart" could be seen as a "good stereotype". The parents of Asian-American children and teens usually push them hard. However, it is generalizing to say that because this is so ALL Asians are smart. What if an Asian person is smart because he/she worked very hard on their own? So, in reality, there is no such thing as a positive stereotype.


Furthermore, acknowledging a stereotype, or even employing one, is not harmful so long as one is aware that it is just a short-hand and not a reflection of reality.

Stereotyping per se isn't so awful, as in saying "most college professors are leftists".

But the difference between LSD's examples and stereotypes of race are that in the latter, the individual being subjected to this short-hand evaluation doesn't have any choice. Even if it is 'complementary' (e.g. "all asians are smart") , the person on the receiving end of the stereotype is still being judged for something they had no say over. That disempowers them and in essence alienates them the same way "negative" stereotypes do.

But in stereotyping people based on occupations or dress, in the first world there is almost universally an element of volition in the person putting themselves in that place.

And to some extent there is fluidity in all this. For example in some anglo-saxon countries, somebody of Irish heritage can hide that fact. Moreover, many often have only vague connections to their Irish heritage. So, to some extent the decision to embrace their heritage is a choice. They can for instance grow up being Americans without thinking twice about where their ancestors came from in Europe.

So whether they take offense at a leprechaun or other stereotypes is to some extent a reflection of an identity they have chosen. But many racial groups do not have this luxury, e.g. the Irish in parts of the UK.