USAL Saudi human rights abuses okay, Chavez not!

[Cheung Mo]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=07...&show_article=1 (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071115145104.rykb7bub&show_article=1)

A court in the ultra-conservative kingdom of Saudi Arabia is punishing a female victim of gang rape with 200 lashes and six months in jail, a newspaper reported on Thursday.

The 19-year-old woman -- whose six armed attackers have been sentenced to jail terms -- was initially ordered to undergo 90 lashes for "being in the car of an unrelated male at the time of the rape," the Arab News reported.

But in a new verdict issued after Saudi Arabia's Higher Judicial Council ordered a retrial, the court in the eastern town of Al-Qatif more than doubled the number of lashes to 200.

A court source told the English-language Arab News that the judges had decided to punish the woman further for "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media."

Saudi Arabia enforces a strict Islamic doctrine known as Wahhabism and forbids unrelated men and women from associating with each other, bans women from driving and forces them to cover head-to-toe in public.

Last year, the court sentenced six Saudi men to between one and five years in jail for the rape as well as ordering lashes for the victim, a member of the minority Shiite community.

But the woman's lawyer Abdul Rahman al-Lahem appealed, arguing that the punishments were too lenient in a country where the offence can carry the death penalty.

In the new verdict issued on Wednesday, the Al-Qatif court also toughened the sentences against the six men to between two and nine years in prison.

The case has angered members of Saudi Arabia's Shiite community. The convicted men are Sunni Muslims, the dominant community in the oil-rich Gulf state.

Lahem, also a human rights activist, told AFP on Wednesday that the court had banned him from handling the rape case and withdrew his licence to practise law because he challenged the verdict.

He said he has also been summoned by the ministry of justice to appear before a disciplinary committee in December.

Lahem said the move might be due to his criticism of some judicial institutions, and "contradicts King Abdullah's quest to introduce reform, especially in the justice system."

King Abdullah last month approved a new body of laws regulating the judicial system in Saudi Arabia, which rules on the basis of sharia, or Islamic law.

[Lenin II]

The United State's oil-based imperialist support of Saudi Arabia's reactionary government is well-known. Somehow the Soviet Union and Venezuela are so much worse than them, who still torture women for being unveiled in public, they who still decapitate people in the public square, they who require all citizens to be a Muslim by law. The U.S. gives billions of dollars to this regime per year by buying barrels of their oil, and yet continue to say Castro is the scourge of the globe. Saudi Arabia and King Abdullah are the buddies of U.S. colonialist imperialism. It will be a victory for the working class the day the family is overthrown by the people.

[spartan]

This is the true face of Islam and how it is implemented for you.

So not only is Islam homophobic and sexist it now also punishes women for being raped! :huh:

I just cant believe that there are still memebrs of revleft who would defend religion (specifically Islam) when a country run according to Islamic law can do this!

What is more stupid though is that the USA criticises countries like Iran for being religious fundamentalists and yet the USA is happy to call Saudi Arabia (the country where this incident happened and where if you are'nt a Sunni Muslim you can be discriminated against just like with the raped woman who was a Shia muslim) an ally!

This makes me sick! :angry:

[Revolution Until Victory]

This is the true face of Islam and how it is implemented for you.

wtf???? this is the "true face of Islam"???

bigotry and ignorance at its finest!!

this is as stupid as saying "freedom means killing innocnet civilians since Bush claims to fight for freedom and killis innocent civlians. Thus, this is the true face of freedom, killing innocnet civlians".

This whole kingdom was established by the imperialists and is probably the most major imperialsit agent in the region until now. It cliams to be Islamic, yet it is as far away from it as possible, same way as US agents in the region who claim to be "revolutionary" yet are as far away from it as possible.


So not only is Islam homophobic and sexist it now also punishes women for being raped!

please spare us your childish ignorance.


just cant believe that there are still memebrs of revleft who would defend religion (specifically Islam) when a country run according to Islamic law can do this!

its not run according to Islamic law, just coz they cliam they do so doesn't mean its true. The imperialists claim they stand for freedom and democracy, does this mean they truly are for freedom and democracy? don't be such an idiot.

[spartan]

wtf???? this is the "true face of Islam"???

bigotry and ignorance at its finest!!
I thought that all religions are reactionary?

this is as stupid as saying "freedom means killing innocnet civilians since Bush claims to fight for freedom and killis innocent civlians. Thus, this is the true face of freedom, killing innocnet civlians".
I now see your point my mistake.

This whole kingdom was established by the imperialists and is probably the most major imperialsit agent in the region until now.
Well i know that is true.

It cliams to be Islamic, yet it is as far away from it as possible, same way as US agents in the region who claim to be "revolutionary" yet are as far away from it as possible.
Fair enough i take back what i said.

please spare us your childish ignorance.
Islam has always told people to live a specific way that does'nt involve homosexuality or women being equal to men in anyway.

Are you denying this?

its not run according to Islamic law, just coz they cliam they do so doesn't mean its true. The imperialists claim they stand for freedom and democracy, does this mean they truly are for freedom and democracy? don't be such an idiot.
I see your point and i take back what i said.

I suppose that i was really angry about what had happened to this woman and was looking for something (Fundamentalist Islam) to take my frustrations out on.

[Killer Enigma]

Give the incident a few days to ruminate in the media. The article is from yesterday and any reaction to it will not occur for a few days (a la the anti-Chavista protest).

[Revolution Until Victory]

I thought that all religions are reactionary?

this is a total, total different issue. The argument here isn't about relegions being reactionary or not, it is specifically about Islam. To claim that what happned in SA was "the true face of Islam" is a different arguemnt from "all relegions are reactioanry". I was objecting at your unfounded claims about Islam.


Islam has always told people to live a specific way that does'nt involve homosexuality or women being equal to men in anyway.

Are you denying this?

I'm denying this:


or women being equal to men in anyway

Islam promotes equality between men and women.


I suppose that i was really angry about what had happened to this woman and was looking for something (Fundamentalist Islam) to take my frustrations out on.

true, you should be angry, I was angry, but you should have taken your frustration on Imperialsim, the cause of this, not how a bunch of imperilaist agents view Islam to meet their own goals.

[Comrade Rage]

Originally posted by Revolution Until [email protected] 16, 2007 04:29 pm

I thought that all religions are reactionary?

this is a total, total different issue. The argument here isn't about relegions being reactionary or not, it is specifically about Islam. To claim that what happned in SA was "the true face of Islam" is a different arguemnt from "all relegions are reactioanry". I was objecting at your unfounded claims about Islam.


Islam has always told people to live a specific way that does'nt involve homosexuality or women being equal to men in anyway.

Are you denying this?

I'm denying this:


or women being equal to men in anyway

Islam promotes equality between men and women.


I suppose that i was really angry about what had happened to this woman and was looking for something (Fundamentalist Islam) to take my frustrations out on.

true, you should be angry, I was angry, but you should have taken your frustration on Imperialsim, the cause of this, not how a bunch of imperilaist agents view Islam to meet their own goals.
I believe that in Saudi Arabia 'honor killings' are tolerated.

Saudi Arabia is reactionary governance at it's worst.

Of course Bush and his apologists would have you thinking that Iran is worse. <_<

[Diagoras of Melos]

While Ibn Sa&#39;ud had his own vision of conquest before the British gave him the tip of the hat, they did play a role in the recognition of the Sa&#39;ud family as the sovereign power of the Arabian peninsula.

The brutal conservatism of the Wahhabi movement is quite disturbing. Most religious folk in the West have been sufficiently secularized to ignore, at least in their day to day routine those little divine commands about stoning someone for such-and-such offense, or the denigration of women and non-heterosexuals. This, obviously, is not the case in much of the Middle East.

The U.S. does buy billions in Saudi oil, but that is not all the aid that this government provides the Saudi state. Even during the mid-1970s, only years after two different major conflicts between Israel and the Arab world, the U.S. government had sold roughly 2.5 billion dollars in arms to both Israel and SA. Helping the "peace process" along... my ass. Even today, there is a new plan for a massive arms deal to the Saudis, totaling 20 billion dollars... coupled with another one to Israel for 30.4 billion dollars&#33;

... All of this is on top of the 5,000 U.S. troops stationed in SA since 1991 to protect the Saudi regime, and maintain the ever-vital oil stream.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/28/washington/28weapons.html

[Cheung Mo]

There are tons of Islamists holding power in Afghanistan now...I&#39;ve heard stories and seen footage of the new parliament, and it&#39;s all religious wackos bullying, threatening, and ridiculing the few feminists and leftist members. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, appointed by Washington&#39;s puppet government, is an Islamist who opposes gender equality and support Shariat...The difference is that these Muslim extremists are not hostile to letting Washington control the oil and to giving the CIA a cut of the drug money, which the Taliban stopped doing once the U.S. went after them as a convenient scapegoat for whatever the fuck really happened on 9/11. The West&#39;s arms and money should have gone to Brezhnev&#39;s cronies rather than the looney tunes gang.

[Lenin II]

Spartan actually has a point. Even though what he&#39;s saying could have been phrased to not sound so right-wing, the fact is that it IS the true face of Islam, as it is also the true face of Christianity, of Hinduism, of Judaism, etc. Given the opportunity, all religions would force a society like this. At their core, all religions are the same, no matter how much hatred they have for each other.

Yes, Islam is homophobic, reactionary, sexist and murderous, but so are all other religions. Read the Bible, the Torah and death of the infidels, heathens, pagans, gentiles and foreigners is widespread and godly condoned. It&#39;s quite funny, because Christian fashes like Pat Robertson and George Bush, despite their high-falutin&#39; burns on Ahmadenijad, actualy have much more similarities to him than differences.

[Revolution Until Victory]

it IS the true face of Islam

no it is NOT


Yes, Islam is homophobic, reactionary, sexist and murderous, but so are all other religions

this is false.

[bootleg42]

Revolution Until Victory, then please show evidence it&#39;s not.

And fuck ALL religion.

[Revolution Until Victory]

Revolution Until Victory, then please show evidence it&#39;s not.

And fuck ALL religion.

This issue have been discussed before in other threads, this isn&#39;t the place to yet again discuss those same issues. If you want to, do it in another thread.

[Faux Real]

Wahabism at its finest. <_<

Really, punishing a rape victim harsher than the rapists themselves? Give me a break.

The political climate there seems pretty bleak and corrupt. The crown sanctions the Islamic mystical scholars (who come up with the laws), and the mystics justify the crown&#39;s rule. Are there any revolutionary leftist groups in SA?

I doubt the most valued (for it&#39;s resources) ally of the US in that area will be blasted for this. Luckily this news story won&#39;t be hushed up within independent media outlets. I hope her sentence is completely overturned.

[Revolution Until Victory]

Are there any revolutionary leftist groups in SA?

the operession against anything anti-imperialist in the SA by the imperilaist agents is extreme. I have heard that communist litrature is banned there. However, there are revolutionary leftists and communists in SA. There is, for example, the Saudi Communist Party, which declared its programm in 1975. I will add more information on this latter.

[Faux Real]

Okay, can&#39;t wait to hear. Thanks&#33;

[BobKKKindle$]

The policies of the Saudi Regime are not derived from the principles of Islam, and with regard to the role of women in society, Islam is actually very tolerant in comparison to other monotheistic religions, such as Christianity. It is unfortunate that many members are unable to distinguish between the authoritarianism of a government that maintains power without any popular mandate and the religion that provides an ethical basis for millions of progressive individuals – the promotion of this reactionary and ignorant position only serves to alienate the Muslim community in developed countries such as the United Kingdom.

The form of Islamism which exists in Saudi Arabia - Wahhabism - has been criticized by Muslims across the world as incompatible with spiritual Islam, and visiting pilgrims are often subject to persecution, as they are accused of idolatry (worshiping the prophet Mohamed). I urge you all to learn more about Islam - the prejudice on this board is shameful.

[Lenin II]

Originally posted by Revolution Until [email protected] 17, 2007 04:42 am

it IS the true face of Islam

no it is NOT


Yes, Islam is homophobic, reactionary, sexist and murderous, but so are all other religions

this is false.
It&#39;s not an unfair blanket statement. It is the truth. All religious institutions, regardless of origin, are inherantly homophobic, racist and intolerant. Name one religion that isn&#39;t and offer evidence from its respective holy book, for I have found none.

[Revolution Until Victory]

Here is some information on Communism in SA:

In Augst 1975, the program of the Saudi Communist Party was declared. Here is some of what came in it:

PS: This is my own translation. I have added what’s in brackets, but what in parentheses came from the original program.


It is no more a secret that the National Liberation Front is an organization of the Communists in SA. We the Communists in SA, forefront fighters, are at absolute awareness that the path for the salvation of the working class and the toiling masses wouldn’t take place unless through its [referring to the working class] organization and its unification in the leadership of its forefront party. And from this follows that the emergence of our Communist party in the SA, which in reality is an extension of the National Reform Front and then National Liberation Front, is a class, national, and internationalist necessity that the circumstances and the situation that our country is in have demanded. It is also a reflection of an obvious reality which the historical phase of social development is expressed in the need of the working class for its political party that honestly expresses its organic political interests and its historical ambitions and organize, unite, and lead its struggle against its exploiters and slave-masters, and protects the purity of its ideology (Marxism-Leninism) and gathers scientific ideology and revolutionary action to liberate society and re-construct it on new bases, towards a happy future.


However, the Saudi Communist Party is not the only Communist organization in the SA. For example, there exists the Popular Democratic Party established in 1969 which was a result of the unity of the Popular Democratic Front and the National Revolution Organization (the Saudi wing of the Arab Nationalist Movement, of which the PFLP is its Palestinian wing.). The Popular Democratic Party was an active and major force in the Saudi scene. The party have given martyrs in the Thufar Revolution and also launched armed struggle. The party was not only in the main cities, but also in the villages and small towns. In addition, the party had a constant growth in its working class members base, both as members and as leading positions. Also, the party was the first one that got a women organization. Unfortunately, today the existence of the party is almost not evident. They were either dismantled due to the extreme oppression by the imperialist agents in SA, or due to their working in extreme secrecy.

[grove street]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 07:06 pm
This is the true face of Islam and how it is implemented for you.


Well actually no

This is the true face of one interpretation of Islam

Islam has numerous sects and in each sect there are numerous schools of Islamic though and on top of this new schools of Islamic thought are constantly being created

Each sect and school haves its own interpreatation of the Quran Sunnah and Hadiths and from the interpretation of these religious texts Shairia law is formed

Some schools have a very strict interpretation of the Islamic texts while others apply them in a manner similar to Historical Materialism claiming that the historical conditions under which Muhammed and his followers lived should be taken into account and that certain rules only applied to those times>

It"s important to remember that Islam is not an organised religion and because of this it"s opened to numerous interpretation both for the better and for the worse