what do you make of this liberal quote?

[R_P_A_S]

“There are between 7 and 15 million working illegal immigrants diluting our labor pool. If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.” ?
--Thom Hartmann, Common Dreams

specially what's in BOLD.

[Comrade Rage]

This is the standard 'labor-oriented' capitalist theory of supply and demand.

It's part of the right-populist anti-immigration movement. It's really their only point.

[RGacky3]

I'd simply respond by saying, if illigals organized then unions would flourish. :), Unions should be for ALL workers.

[PigmerikanMao]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 01:13 am
I'd simply respond by saying, if illigals organized then unions would flourish. :), Unions should be for ALL workers.
As much as I loathe you, I'd be forced to agree. :mellow:

[Comrade Rage]

Originally posted by PigmerikanMao+November 15, 2007 08:29 pm--> (PigmerikanMao @ November 15, 2007 08:29 pm)
[email protected] 16, 2007 01:13 am
I'd simply respond by saying, if illigals organized then unions would flourish. :), Unions should be for ALL workers.
As much as I loathe you, I'd be forced to agree. :mellow: [/b]
That makes three. :)

[PigmerikanMao]

Originally posted by COMRADE CRUM+November 16, 2007 01:31 am--> (COMRADE CRUM @ November 16, 2007 01:31 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 08:29 pm

[email protected] 16, 2007 01:13 am
I'd simply respond by saying, if illigals organized then unions would flourish. :), Unions should be for ALL workers.
As much as I loathe you, I'd be forced to agree. :mellow:
That makes three. :) [/b]
Do you loathe me or RGacky3? :huh:

[Angry Young Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 12:51 am

“There are between 7 and 15 million working illegal immigrants diluting our labor pool. If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.” ?
--Thom Hartmann, Common Dreams

specially what's in BOLD.
I think it's a load of gobble. I don't know what the state of unionism is in the States, but in the UK it's pretty poor. How can you know how many illegal immigrants there are if they're not on the census? Maybe we should confront and fix all oligarchic nations' corrupt ways.

[Angry Young Man]

Originally posted by COMRADE CRUM+November 16, 2007 01:31 am--> (COMRADE CRUM @ November 16, 2007 01:31 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2007 08:29 pm

[email protected] 16, 2007 01:13 am
I'd simply respond by saying, if illigals organized then unions would flourish. :), Unions should be for ALL workers.
As much as I loathe you, I'd be forced to agree. :mellow:
That makes three. :) [/b]
EAR! Except for right-wingers.

[black magick hustla]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 12:51 am

“There are between 7 and 15 million working illegal immigrants diluting our labor pool. If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.” ?
--Thom Hartmann, Common Dreams

specially what's in BOLD.
The entry of illegal immigrants DOES lower the wages and DOES hamper with the mainstream unions.

However, this is exactly what nationalism does: divides the working class. If immigrants were let inside the Unions, nothing like this would happen.


By the same token, its not the fault of immigrants--immigrants just sell their labor power. the fault of the present state of things is the bourgeosie's.

[lvleph]

The undocumented workers in my city get paid $10+ an hour, and won't take less than that. My wife at the same time was getting paid $8. However, she doesn't have the skills they have.

[Angry Young Man]

My interpretation is that native workers are not afraid of anything but their means of existence. Immigrant workers come from desperation and hear of the greater security in places like the UK. This boils into a racial issue because immigrant labourers are the face of the social insecurity, rather than seeing the core (the capitalists, who will pay fuck all because it's a mint in their home country.)

What needs to be done is that all workers - native or immigrant - realise their common enemy.

[RGacky3]

Man I have never been Loathed before, you crazy Maoists you.


The entry of illegal immigrants DOES lower the wages and DOES hamper with the mainstream unions.

I'm not sure it does, is there any statistics or documentation showing that?

[Colonello Buendia]

I agree with whoever made PigmeriKan Mao agree with RGacky3.

Yeah MAoists are kinda crazy

[PigmerikanMao]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 05:36 pm
Man I have never been Loathed before, you crazy Maoists you.


The entry of illegal immigrants DOES lower the wages and DOES hamper with the mainstream unions.

I'm not sure it does, is there any statistics or documentation showing that?
Yeah- we love surprising you predictable Marxists :P

[Diagoras of Melos]

I know that in my current residence of Waco, the minimum wage just got increased to $5.85 an hour. I am working 40 hour weeks on top of 18 hours of college classes just to potentially pay my damn rent so that I can stay under a roof long enough to get into graduate school... so that potentially I can pay back my tens of thousands of dollars in collegiate debt in 20 years or so, if everything goes well.

We don't have unions in Texas.

[_v_]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2007 12:51 am

“There are between 7 and 15 million working illegal immigrants diluting our labor pool. If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.” ?
--Thom Hartmann, Common Dreams

specially what's in BOLD.
Well as soon as i read the words "illegal" i tend to switch off.How can a person be illegal?its one of the worst terms used by humanity.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

This illustrates a deeply anti-worker and ultra-nationalistic posture. Ironically, it's also somehow the most "progressive" view on immigration accepted in the United States. It also goes hand-in-hand with the opposition of international free trade agreements because of the supposed detriment that it causes the first world working class. lol

[BobKKKindle$]

The entry of illegal immigrants DOES lower the wages and DOES hamper with the mainstream unions.

Nope.

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=4128

THE IDEA that refugees in Britain drive down wages and cause unemployment has been blown apart by research released last week. "Immigration is found to have, if anything, a positive effect on the wages of the existing population. Using the most robust data source available, an increase in immigration of 1 percent of the non-migrant population leads to a nearly 2 percent increase in non-migrant wages," says the research summary.

It is based on four reports commissioned by the Home Office. Two are from University College London, one from the University of Leicester and one from the Department for Work and Pensions. The reports say there are complex reasons behind the positive impact migrants have on the labour market.

But their conclusion is reinforced by other studies: "International evidence on this issue shows that migrants do not have large negative effects on either wages or unemployment of the domestic workforce." This is because the work migrants do adds to the running of the economy. Many of them have skills in areas where there are chronic shortages. Whole sections of the understaffed NHS and of education would simply grind to a halt without migrant workers.