I Present: "Chaoism"

[S.O.I]

Chaoism, or "chaoistic ideology" (Not to be confused with the occult philosophy of chaos magic.) focuses on subjective experience and objective political reality.

Chaoism often highly individualistic and borrows liberally from other ideological systems.

Some common sources of inspiration include such diverse areas as science fiction, scientific theories, Eastern philosophy, anarchism, socialism & communism, libertarianism & liberalism, market economy & capitalism, leftism, religions, chaos magic, art, culture and individual experimentation.

Nothing is "True". Everything is Permitted.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Chaosphere.svg/100px-Chaosphere.svg.png

The chaos star is a popular symbol of chaoism. Many variants exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol_of_Chaos

Chaoists usually accept the meta-belief that ideology is a tool for achieving effects; it is not an end in itself. Chaos Magick has its roots in every political tradition and is the work of many individuals.



Chaos (derived from the Greek Χάος, Chaos) typically refers to unpredictability, and is the antithetical concept of cosmos. The word χάος did not mean "disorder" in classical-period ancient Greece. It meant "the primal emptiness, space" (see Chaos (mythology)). Chaos is derived from the Proto-Indo-European root ghn or ghen meaning "gape, be wide open": compare "chasm" (from Greek χάσμα), and Anglo-Saxon gānian ("yawn"), geanian, ginian ("gape wide"); see also Old Norse Ginnungagap. Due to people misunderstanding early Christian uses of the word, the meaning of the word changed to "disorder". (The Ancient Greek for "disorder" is ταραχή.).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos

Just like anarchism does not mean "chaos". So when you think of it this is kind of a slap in the face for anyone who believes that. Not that that was its original purpose. I have been a chaoist for a very long time (about 4-5 years or so), i just didnt have a word for it before now. And it kind of struck me like lightning.

Interesting reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm

Edit: There seems to be disputes about the name, so i would ask of you to contribute with suggestions.

[Dimentio]

That forum post was totally non-informative.

[S.O.I]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 03:04 pm
That forum post was totally non-informative.
Explain.

[lvleph]

There seemed to be no real definition of Chaoism as you see it. I am just as lost as when I started reading, except I affirmed my belief that Chao came from Chaos.

[Black Cross]

uhh... maybe there's something more to this that I'm missing, but I think you failed to mention that they believe in magic. I would think that this link has some relevence to what you're trying to decribe. I think this might turn some people off if you don't deny the use and pursuance of magic in "chaoism"

chaoism (http://www.waningmoon.com/darkpagan/lib/lib0006.shtml)

[S.O.I]

There seemed to be no real definition of Chaoism as you see it. I am just as lost as when I started reading

I just defined it. Chaoism is an ideology based on experimentation, and mixture of different existing ideologies etc. You could in this sense say anarcho-communism and social liberalism are based on chaoistic principles, but are not chaoistic in the sense that they are clearly defined and are not very open for alternatives and adjustments. They have kind of "borderlines", that you cannot cross, because they will in that case become other ideologies, like anarcho-syndicalism, or neo-liberalism.


I affirmed my belief that Chao came from Chaos.

Yes, you are right. But chaos does not mean disorder


Chaos (derived from the Greek Χάος, Chaos) typically refers to unpredictability, and is the antithetical concept of cosmos. The word χάος did not mean "disorder" in classical-period ancient Greece. It meant "the primal emptiness, space" (see Chaos (mythology)). Chaos is derived from the Proto-Indo-European root ghn or ghen meaning "gape, be wide open": compare "chasm" (from Greek χάσμα), and Anglo-Saxon gānian ("yawn"), geanian, ginian ("gape wide"); see also Old Norse Ginnungagap. Due to people misunderstanding early Christian uses of the word, the meaning of the word changed to "disorder". (The Ancient Greek for "disorder" is ταραχή.).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos

Just like anarchism does not mean "chaos". So when you think of it this is kind of a slap in the face for anyone who believes that. Not that that was its original purpose. I have been a chaoist for a very long time (about 4-5 years or so), i just didnt have a word for it before now. And it kind of struck me like lightning.

Interesting reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm

[S.O.I]

I think you failed to mention that they believe in magic.

Chaoistic ideology has nothing to do with chaos magic, other than that it follows basically the same principles and sciences of thought. And it definately has nothing to do with magic. I have read about chaos magic before, just as i have read about numerous other religions, although i do not see myself as a religious person at all. I do however tend to find myself having a few spiritual qualities and ways of seeing things.


II think this might turn some people off if you don't deny the use and pursuance of magic in "chaoism"

Ok. I fully deny the use and persuance of magic in chaoistic ideology (i may have to reconsider the name) 100%, but i do not deny the use of some religious principles by some individuals influenced by it. That would be very unnatural in an ideology that persues openness and a "many-ways-of-doing-it" philosophy.


Some common sources of inspiration include such diverse areas as science fiction, scientific theories, Eastern philosophy, anarchism, socialism & communism, libertarianism & liberalism, market economy & capitalism, leftism, religions & cultures, and individual experimentation.

[Hit The North]

How do you pronounce it?

[S.O.I]

How do you pronounce it?

"Kaah-oo" -ism. Hehe.

Edit: Or it depends. I've never had to say it out loud yet. :P But "kaah-oo ism" is how you pronounce "chaoism" in the occultism sense.

[Black Cross]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 05:04 pm

I think you failed to mention that they believe in magic.

Chaoistic ideology has nothing to do with chaos magic, other than that it follows basically the same principles and sciences of thought. And it definately has nothing to do with magic. I have read about chaos magic before, just as i have read about numerous other religions, although i do not see myself as a religious person at all. I do however tend to find myself having a few spiritual qualities and ways of seeing things.


II think this might turn some people off if you don't deny the use and pursuance of magic in "chaoism"

Ok. I fully deny the use and persuance of magic in chaoistic ideology (i may have to reconsider the name) 100%, but i do not deny the use of some religious principles by some individuals influenced by it. That would be very unnatural in an ideology that persues openness and a "many-ways-of-doing-it" philosophy.


Some common sources of inspiration include such diverse areas as science fiction, scientific theories, Eastern philosophy, anarchism, socialism & communism, libertarianism & liberalism, market economy & capitalism, leftism, religions & cultures, and individual experimentation.
That's fine by me, I was just making sure it's not some kind of cult, as it seemed to be at first glance. But you should probably mention from the beginning that your chaoism is not to be confused with this belief in chaos magic.

[S.O.I]

That's fine by me, I was just making sure it's not some kind of cult, as it seemed to be at first glance. Yeah i wish :P


But you should probably mention from the beginning that your chaoism is not to be confused with this belief in chaos magic.

Propably a good idea. Done

[Hit The North]

Marxist-rev:
That's fine by me, I was just making sure it's not some kind of cult, as it seemed to be at first glance. But you should probably mention from the beginning that your chaoism is not to be confused with this belief in chaos magic.


If he's going to include science fiction, Eastern philosophy, market economy & capitalism ( :blink: ), religions & cultures, and individual experimentation - then why not throw in a bit of chaos magic as well?

[S.O.I]

Marxist-rev:
That's fine by me, I was just making sure it's not some kind of cult, as it seemed to be at first glance. But you should probably mention from the beginning that your chaoism is not to be confused with this belief in chaos magic.


If he's going to include science fiction, Eastern philosophy, market economy & capitalism ( :blink: ), religions & cultures, and individual experimentation - then why not throw in a bit of chaos magic as well?

Well, i included religion, but when you mention it its propably right, as this term is somewhat related to it.

[lvleph]

I am still confused. :confused:

[S.O.I]

I am still confused. :confused:


Which part are you having difficulties understanding? Ill try to explain.

[S.O.I]

i just noticed the number 666 in this threads url :ph34r:

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 08:00 pm
i just noticed the number 666 in this threads url :ph34r:
I read somewhere that the devils number is actually 616.

[lvleph]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 08:00 pm
i just noticed the number 666 in this threads url :ph34r:
Giving characteristics to a movement does not necessarily define the movement. what are the principles of Chaoism? Maybe, I am missing something?

[S.O.I]

Originally posted by Red_Anarchist+November 06, 2007 08:05 pm--> (Red_Anarchist @ November 06, 2007 08:05 pm)
[email protected] 06, 2007 08:00 pm
i just noticed the number 666 in this threads url :ph34r:
I read somewhere that the devils number is actually 616. [/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia :P

[S.O.I]

Originally posted by lvleph+November 06, 2007 08:16 pm--> (lvleph @ November 06, 2007 08:16 pm)
[email protected] 06, 2007 08:00 pm
i just noticed the number 666 in this threads url :ph34r:
Giving characteristics to a movement does not necessarily define the movement. what are the principles of Chaoism? Maybe, I am missing something? [/b]
-There are a few ideas unique to chaoism, such as some forms of leftist economic and social models and ideas, like anarcho-communism and libertarian socialism.

-Chaoism is highly individualistic and borrows liberally from other ideological systems. In this way, some chaoists consider their practice to be a form of paradigm piracy:

-A paradigm piracy, also known as metabelief and metaprogramming, is the practice of freely adopting and discarding ideas and political views at will.

-Chaoism claims that "ideology is a tool for achieving effects; it is not an end in itself."

Its actually really simple.

[Dimentio]

The question is if makes any sense or just resembles the opinions and ramblings of one individual?

[S.O.I]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 09:42 pm
The question is if makes any sense or just resembles the opinions and ramblings of one individual?
it doesnt make sense? what do you mean? if it makes sence or not is up to you, but they are my opinions and ramblings, yes. what does that have to do with it?

communism were also originally the opinions and ramblings of one individual.. his name was karl marx..
communism doesnt make sense?

[lvleph]

Originally posted by S.O.I+November 06, 2007 08:31 pm--> (S.O.I @ November 06, 2007 08:31 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 08:16 pm

[email protected] 06, 2007 08:00 pm
i just noticed the number 666 in this threads url :ph34r:
Giving characteristics to a movement does not necessarily define the movement. what are the principles of Chaoism? Maybe, I am missing something?
-There are a few ideas unique to chaoism, such as some forms of leftist economic and social models and ideas, like anarcho-communism and libertarian socialism.

-Chaoism is highly individualistic and borrows liberally from other ideological systems. In this way, some chaoists consider their practice to be a form of paradigm piracy:

-A paradigm piracy, also known as metabelief and metaprogramming, is the practice of freely adopting and discarding ideas and political views at will.

-Chaoism claims that "ideology is a tool for achieving effects; it is not an end in itself."

Its actually really simple. [/b]
So the reason why I am confused is that Chaoism doesn't really have a form, except that it is formless?

[Everyday Anarchy]

It's been done. Nihilism.
Also, the statement "Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted." made me think of the philosophy of Eric and Dylan who were the shooters at Columbine High School.

[KurtFF8]

Is this thread a joke?

[Entrails Konfetti]

Well I'm a Flying-Butt-Monkeyist
http://www.aceweekly.com/Backissues_ACEWeekly/010111/images/flyingmonkee.gif
All hail the Order of the Fecal Winged Primate!
Pimatvz Fecallvz Viing

The OFWP combines primativism, nationalism with an energy credit economy.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Other mottos include:
Hey this tree is my tree!
What the hell are those? Energy credits? Why, they aren't worth the bark they are wittled on!

[obsolete discourse]

"Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted." is a slogan written on the walls of Paris in '68 and used gratuitiously by pro-situ types and weirdos throughout the '80s and '90s.

Are you vaguely refering to chaos as "complexity theory" SOI?

[lvleph]

Originally posted by obsolete [email protected] 07, 2007 05:29 am
"Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted." is a slogan written on the walls of Paris in '68 and used gratuitiously by pro-situ types and weirdos throughout the '80s and '90s.

Are you vaguely refering to chaos as "complexity theory" SOI?
It seems the OP is using Chaos in the sense that Chaoism is unpredictable due to its use of "paradigm piracy".

[Jazzratt]

Hahaha, wow this takes me back a bit to when I was a nihilist chaos magician (don't worry I'm cured now.). As far as I can see with this it's the mental masturbations of a few fringe psuedointellectuals who are grasping at everything that seems to be vaguely "counter cultural". Whilst this, at least, implies they are anti-capitalist it in no way suggests any kind of leftism and, indeed, I think it is essentially opposed to our aims. It certainly isn't a working class ideology either, it reeks of petit-bourgeois boredom.

[S.O.I]

Whilst this, at least, implies they are anti-capitalist it in no way suggests any kind of leftism and, indeed, I think it is essentially opposed to our aims.

how can you say this? not only is this an excellent motivator to read about communism, syndicalism and any other ideology, it is also a purifier of anarchisms bad reputation, of beeing chaotic. and no real chaoist would ever call himself conservative and right wing, thats for sure.

"anarchism is chaos"

"no chaoism is chaos. but chaos doesnt mean disorder, it means openness. anarchism is simply anti-autoritarian"

see? anarchism is an anti-authoritarian ideology, chaoism is an anti-ignorance ideology. why would any chaost choose to be ignorant (conservative)?

[lvleph]

Anarchy is not really anti-authoritarian. It gives authority to those in the community, to everyone one.

[S.O.I]

Anarchy is not really anti-authoritarian. It gives authority to those in the community, to everyone one.

umm are you sure about that?

cuz i thought anarchy meant literally "no leaders".

[lvleph]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 05:02 pm

Anarchy is not really anti-authoritarian. It gives authority to those in the community, to everyone one.

umm are you sure about that?

cuz i thought anarchy meant literally "no leaders".
What I meant was that the power is giving to the people to make their own decisions. And so the will of the people is the authority. Example: If someone lives in a community and does something so that community doesn't want said person to remain in the community, then the community has the authority to banish the person. In this example there is obviously authority, but it is not clearly defined in a hierarchical fashion, except for community of the individual. So I think to see Anarchy as anti-authoritarian is a naive way of thinking about Anarchy.

[S.O.I]

yeah i understand what youre saying, but anarchism is still anti-authoritarian.

"anarchism is the will of the people"...? ill need a verifiable link on that one... maybe your confusing anarchy with democracy or some of the principles of communism.. at least that how i see it.. i do however agree on that anarchism is a WAY of transfering the legislative power to the people..

but you cannot disagree on that f.ex both libertarianism and anarchism are anti-authoritarian ideologies... just like fascism is an authoritarian ideology. how on earth is this a false statement?

[lvleph]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 08:35 pm
yeah i understand what youre saying, but anarchism is still anti-authoritarian.

"anarchism is the will of the people"...? ill need a verifiable link on that one... maybe your confusing anarchy with democracy or some of the principles of communism.. at least that how i see it.. i do however agree on that anarchism is a WAY of transfering the legislative power to the people..

but you cannot disagree on that f.ex both libertarianism and anarchism are anti-authoritarian ideologies... just like fascism is an authoritarian ideology. how on earth is this a false statement?
I guess it just depends on how you look at anti-authoritarianism.

[TheDifferenceEngine]

"Nothing is true, Everything is permitted."

Wasn't that the motto of the Hashashin?

[S.O.I]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 12:14 pm
"Nothing is true, Everything is permitted."

Wasn't that the motto of the Hashashin?


hashassins = middle eastern ninja potheads

where did you get this?

[Dimentio]

Libertarianism is a reactionary ideology which perpetuates the interests of a segment of the petty-bourgeoisie.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 02:39 pm
how can you say this? not only is this an excellent motivator to read about communism, syndicalism and any other ideology,
That's not a defence of the "theory" in itself though, is it? Working a crap job for many hours gets people interested in anarchism and the like but that doesn't mean doing so is a good thing.


it is also a purifier of anarchisms bad reputation, of beeing chaotic.

No it isn't, not everyone will immediately think of Chaoism's rather singular definition of chaos when they hear the word, it's just another block.


and no real chaoist would ever call himself conservative and right wing, thats for sure.

Well, they may call themselves right-wing libertarians - after all the free market can be described as "chaotic".


"anarchism is chaos"

"no chaoism is chaos. but chaos doesnt mean disorder, it means openness. anarchism is simply anti-autoritarian"

Again you have to redefine chaos which is a waste of time. It's easier to describe anarchism as order than to involve chaoism - it is not necessary.


see? anarchism is an anti-authoritarian ideology, chaoism is an anti-ignorance ideology. why would any chaost choose to be ignorant (conservative)?

Ignorance is an extremely amphorous word that can be used by proponents of any ideology to label those of any other. After all a lot of the revolutionary left is described as "ignorant" because we do not lend credence to theories of human nature.