Forming a union.

[Dr Mindbender]

At my workplace our bosses really treat us like shit. People are regularly sacked without warning because the office is 'overstaffed' but if we want to quit then we have to give a month's notice. The promotion system is entirely based upon popularity and favouritism so theres next to no chance of escape and we are forced to do unregular hours, while the new people that have come in are expected to work half an hour longer than everyone else to earn the same money cause the company removed paid breaks.

I've had enough of this, and since we dont have a union for defence these attacks can only get worse. Does anyone here know how to set up a union, or even get in touch with an existing one in order to set up another branch? The thing is i'm afraid of coming forward with this cause if the management finds me out as some sort of ring leader or wildcat trouble maker then my job will be history!

Help! :(

[Socialistpenguin]

I know it must be tough to put up resistance to management with the fear of recrimination; but this is something that does need to be done. Could I just ask what exactly is your occupation?

Some general and very good advice comes from the IWW section: http://www.iww.org/en/organize
These should provide some general advice in the way of forming a union.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 03:26 pm
I know it must be tough to put up resistance to management with the fear of recrimination; but this is something that does need to be done. Could I just ask what exactly is your occupation?


I work in an office based customer service company. Thats all I'm willing to say for fear of identification and subsequent reprisal either by my employer or the fascists.

[Socialistpenguin]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+November 03, 2007 04:54 pm--> (Ulster Socialist @ November 03, 2007 04:54 pm)
[email protected] 03, 2007 03:26 pm
I know it must be tough to put up resistance to management with the fear of recrimination; but this is something that does need to be done. Could I just ask what exactly is your occupation?


I work in an office based customer service company. Thats all I'm willing to say for fear of identification and subsequent reprisal either by my employer or the fascists. [/b]
Fair dos, that's understandable. If you want to form a branch of an already established union, or just want some advice you might want to get in contact with:
T&G (http://www.tgwu.org.uk/)
Amicus Section: Unite (http://www.amicustheunion.org/default.aspx?page=0)
USDAW (http://www.usdaw.org.uk/)
These are the main ones that cater towards customer service/white collar work.
Hope this helps.

[Killer Enigma]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+November 03, 2007 03:54 pm--> (Ulster Socialist @ November 03, 2007 03:54 pm)
[email protected] 03, 2007 03:26 pm
I know it must be tough to put up resistance to management with the fear of recrimination; but this is something that does need to be done. Could I just ask what exactly is your occupation?


I work in an office based customer service company. Thats all I'm willing to say for fear of identification and subsequent reprisal either by my employer or the fascists. [/b]
How arrogant! Though you are using the term incorrectly, these so-called "fascists" probably have very little interest in scouring the Learning section of RevLeft, and even less interest in tracking you down for asking a question about forming a labor union.

[Orange Juche]

Contact the IWW

[Orange Juche]

Originally posted by Killer [email protected] 03, 2007 01:09 pm
How arrogant! Though you are using the term incorrectly, these so-called "fascists" probably have very little interest in scouring the Learning section of RevLeft, and even less interest in tracking you down for asking a question about forming a labor union.
Eh, theres no harm in being careful in identifying yourself (especially considering it isn't neccissary they do), even if doing so may seem a little silly.

[Killer Enigma]

Originally posted by MeetingPeopleIsEasy+November 03, 2007 05:25 pm--> (MeetingPeopleIsEasy @ November 03, 2007 05:25 pm)
Killer [email protected] 03, 2007 01:09 pm
How arrogant! Though you are using the term incorrectly, these so-called "fascists" probably have very little interest in scouring the Learning section of RevLeft, and even less interest in tracking you down for asking a question about forming a labor union.
Eh, theres no harm in being careful in identifying yourself (especially considering it isn't neccissary they do), even if doing so may seem a little silly. [/b]
I have no problem with him not identifying himself. That is a good precaution to take online. His rationale for doing so, however, was absurd.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by killer Enigma+--> (killer Enigma)How arrogant! Though you are using the term incorrectly, these so-called "fascists" probably have very little interest in scouring the Learning section of RevLeft,[/b]
It's long established they 'scour' revleft per se so why wouldnt they? Particularly since this is a fresh thread it isnt that massive a task to find this debate.

Originally posted by killer [email protected]

and even less interest in tracking you down for asking a question about forming a labor union.
Its not being questioned that scares me, its the thought of some steel toe capped bonehead kicking my shit in that makes me apprehensive.

Since I'm probably the only socialist or even left wing thinker within any discernable distance from my home thats probably more likely than you think.


killer instinct

I have no problem with him not identifying himself. That is a good precaution to take online. His rationale for doing so, however, was absurd.
If you call potentially avoiding a shit kicking or worse absurd, then yeah absolutely.

[which doctor]

There is a myth that the only way to make progress in a workplace is to form a union. Ever think of just wildcattin' it. There are a variety of ways to do it everything from traditional strike to checkerboard strike to absenteeism to sabotage.

[Orange Juche]

Originally posted by Killer [email protected] 03, 2007 01:42 pm
I have no problem with him not identifying himself. That is a good precaution to take online. His rationale for doing so, however, was absurd.
Who cares, though.

It could be reasonable to consider it absurd, but implicating him as "arrogant" is unneccissary. Its his choice whether or not to be absurd, especially on such an irrelevant issue.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

There is a myth that the only way to make progress in a workplace is to form a union. Ever think of just wildcattin' it. There are a variety of ways to do it everything from traditional strike to checkerboard strike to absenteeism to sabotage.

In a war of positions, a base area can be vital.

A union is simply an organized body of workers that can fight for their own interests.

As for the original question:

How to organize a union (http://www.insulators.org/organize/organize.html)
35 things the employer cannot do (http://www.insulators.org/organize/35_things.html)
IWW organizing department (http://www.iww.org/en/organize)

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 07:31 pm
There is a myth that the only way to make progress in a workplace is to form a union. Ever think of just wildcattin' it. There are a variety of ways to do it everything from traditional strike to checkerboard strike to absenteeism to sabotage.
Er, in my understanding a union is absolutely fundamental. You cant have a 'one man strike'. If I start to kick off without the solidarity of my colleagues the company can simply sack me and replace with someone more complacent and less class conscious. This does no-one but the bosses any favours, especially me since i'll lose my liveliehood and all of the financially related bullshit that comes with it.
At least in a union we have the bartering chip of collective walkouts and central organisation. The principal of collective action and 'one out all out' is what defends our jobs, and just as importantly our rights within the workplace.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 03, 2007 07:48 pm

35 things the employer cannot do (http://www.insulators.org/organize/35_things.html)


Unfortunately I live outside the US jurisdiction but thanks for the advice.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+November 03, 2007 10:27 pm--> (Ulster Socialist @ November 03, 2007 10:27 pm)
Compañ[email protected] 03, 2007 07:48 pm

35 things the employer cannot do (http://www.insulators.org/organize/35_things.html)


Unfortunately I live outside the US jurisdiction but thanks for the advice. [/b]
whos jurisdiction do you live under, comrade?

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by William Everard+November 03, 2007 10:41 pm--> (William Everard @ November 03, 2007 10:41 pm)
Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 03, 2007 10:27 pm

Compañ[email protected] 03, 2007 07:48 pm

35 things the employer cannot do (http://www.insulators.org/organize/35_things.html)


Unfortunately I live outside the US jurisdiction but thanks for the advice.
whos jurisdiction do you live under, comrade? [/b]
the English beourgioise.

[MarxSchmarx]

Other posters are right about contacting existing unions that could represent similar workers. The TUC has a nifty search engine that you might want to try:

http://www.worksmart.org.uk/unionfinder/


If I start to kick off without the solidarity of my colleagues the company can simply sack me and replace with someone more complacent and less class conscious. This does no-one but the bosses any favours, especially me since i'll lose my liveliehood and all of the financially related bullshit that comes with it.

Have you brought any of these grievances up with co-workers like over cigarrette breaks or something? Do most feel pissed or are they blase about it? What kind of support for unionization do you think there would be if you got serious about it?

Of course, a good organizing drive will persuade skeptical coworkers to come on board. But it helps if people in the shop are open to the ideas.

If you want to try the IWW route, the dedicated support of more than a handful of co-workers is probably necessary. Given how bad things sound like they've gotten at your workplace, the IWW at this time seems unable to provide much background support and resources you will probably need outside precious few regions.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 07:22 am
Other posters are right about contacting existing unions that could represent similar workers. The TUC has a nifty search engine that you might want to try:

http://www.worksmart.org.uk/unionfinder/


If I start to kick off without the solidarity of my colleagues the company can simply sack me and replace with someone more complacent and less class conscious. This does no-one but the bosses any favours, especially me since i'll lose my liveliehood and all of the financially related bullshit that comes with it.

Have you brought any of these grievances up with co-workers like over cigarrette breaks or something? Do most feel pissed or are they blase about it? What kind of support for unionization do you think there would be if you got serious about it?

Of course, a good organizing drive will persuade skeptical coworkers to come on board. But it helps if people in the shop are open to the ideas.

If you want to try the IWW route, the dedicated support of more than a handful of co-workers is probably necessary. Given how bad things sound like they've gotten at your workplace, the IWW at this time seems unable to provide much background support and resources you will probably need outside precious few regions.
i wish i had the courage to discuss office politics with my colleagues but all it takes is one big mouth or an over-zealous member of management to identify and isolate the 'unionisers'.

I wish more of my colleagues were class concious but they're so apathetic. TBH i think a lot of them are there just to make quick cash and dont care if they get sacked or not. A vast proportion of us (not including myself) are employed and paid by a recruitment agency.

[YSR]

Originally posted by UlsterSocialist+--> (UlsterSocialist)i wish i had the courage to discuss office politics with my colleagues but all it takes is one big mouth or an over-zealous member of management to identify and isolate the 'unionisers'.

I wish more of my colleagues were class concious but they're so apathetic. TBH i think a lot of them are there just to make quick cash and dont care if they get sacked or not. A vast proportion of us (not including myself) are employed and paid by a recruitment agency.[/b]

All of your concerns here are really really important and absolutely spot on. I echo others ideas that you contact the IWW immediately. The British Isles Regional Organizing Committee (BIROC) has lots of dedicated unionists and resources to help you. Their contact page: http://www.iww.org.uk/about/contact/index.html

I suggest that you join the union and start getting trained. Our union training programs are really great and gave me some solid, practical advice about how to go about organizing. One really good piece of advice right now, as you're first starting is don't talk about unionizing. Maybe it's different in the UK, but a lot of workers in the US are predisposed to hating unions. Also, like you said, it's a great way to get fired.

Instead, work to create informal relationships based on trust and friendship, slowly build your committee and begin taking direct actions at your shop to improve conditions/wages/other things you need.

Again, I can't stress how important it is to get in touch with the BIROC if you're serious about this. The sooner, the better. Unionizing is hard fucking work, takes an enormous amount of time and energy, and can be really dispiriting. But success is fucking amazing and incredibly important personally and for our class. Please please please talk to the union before you go any further on your own. It's really easy to be canned if you don't know what you're doing.

Solidarity!


FoB
There is a myth that the only way to make progress in a workplace is to form a union. Ever think of just wildcattin' it. There are a variety of ways to do it everything from traditional strike to checkerboard strike to absenteeism to sabotage.

These are all tactics that the IWW uses and encourages. "Traditional" unions have little to nothing in common with the solidarity unionism of the IWW.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by Young Stupid Radical+November 04, 2007 06:38 pm--> (Young Stupid Radical @ November 04, 2007 06:38 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected]
i wish i had the courage to discuss office politics with my colleagues but all it takes is one big mouth or an over-zealous member of management to identify and isolate the 'unionisers'.

I wish more of my colleagues were class concious but they're so apathetic. TBH i think a lot of them are there just to make quick cash and dont care if they get sacked or not. A vast proportion of us (not including myself) are employed and paid by a recruitment agency.

All of your concerns here are really really important and absolutely spot on. I echo others ideas that you contact the IWW immediately. The British Isles Regional Organizing Committee (BIROC) has lots of dedicated unionists and resources to help you. Their contact page: http://www.iww.org.uk/about/contact/index.html

I suggest that you join the union and start getting trained. Our union training programs are really great and gave me some solid, practical advice about how to go about organizing. One really good piece of advice right now, as you're first starting is don't talk about unionizing. Maybe it's different in the UK, but a lot of workers in the US are predisposed to hating unions. Also, like you said, it's a great way to get fired.

Instead, work to create informal relationships based on trust and friendship, slowly build your committee and begin taking direct actions at your shop to improve conditions/wages/other things you need.

Again, I can't stress how important it is to get in touch with the BIROC if you're serious about this. The sooner, the better. Unionizing is hard fucking work, takes an enormous amount of time and energy, and can be really dispiriting. But success is fucking amazing and incredibly important personally and for our class. Please please please talk to the union before you go any further on your own. It's really easy to be canned if you don't know what you're doing.

Solidarity!


FoB
There is a myth that the only way to make progress in a workplace is to form a union. Ever think of just wildcattin' it. There are a variety of ways to do it everything from traditional strike to checkerboard strike to absenteeism to sabotage.

These are all tactics that the IWW uses and encourages. "Traditional" unions have little to nothing in common with the solidarity unionism of the IWW. [/b]
thank you for your comments YSR, that is really encouraging. Rest assured I'll keep you posted if theres any further developments.

;) :)

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+November 03, 2007 05:21 pm--> (Ulster Socialist @ November 03, 2007 05:21 pm)
[email protected] 03, 2007 07:31 pm
There is a myth that the only way to make progress in a workplace is to form a union. Ever think of just wildcattin' it. There are a variety of ways to do it everything from traditional strike to checkerboard strike to absenteeism to sabotage.
Er, in my understanding a union is absolutely fundamental. You cant have a 'one man strike'. If I start to kick off without the solidarity of my colleagues the company can simply sack me and replace with someone more complacent and less class conscious. This does no-one but the bosses any favours, especially me since i'll lose my liveliehood and all of the financially related bullshit that comes with it.
At least in a union we have the bartering chip of collective walkouts and central organisation. The principal of collective action and 'one out all out' is what defends our jobs, and just as importantly our rights within the workplace. [/b]
I never said anything about going it alone.

A mass movement of workers on strike demanding "nothing" is an incredibly popular tool, portraying the futility of typical union demands.

[YSR]

Originally posted by FoB
A mass movement of workers on strike demanding "nothing" is an incredibly popular tool, portraying the futility of typical union demands.

Huh?

Listen, you anti-work stuff like this is great and I agree 100%, but I can't ever imagine convincing my coworkers to strike for "nothing" when we're already underpaid and disrespected. If we would strike, it would be for those things.