Cuba Says It Is "Ready To Renounce Its Flag

[Red Terror Doctor]

WTF????

Foreign Minister Felipe Perez-Roque says Cuba is disposed to renounce its sovereigny and its flag in order to join a South American economic and political bloc.

From my perspective this could wildly backfire as the imperialists can take over Cuba by taking over this bloc. What do you guys think???


Links are in Spanish. Can anyone find any English links????

http://www.elnuevoherald.com/noticias/amer...ory/111162.html (http://www.elnuevoherald.com/noticias/america_latina/cuba/story/111162.html)


http://www.elnuevoherald.com/noticias/amer...ory/111664.html (http://www.elnuevoherald.com/noticias/america_latina/cuba/story/111664.html)

[spartan]

Is this to do with Chavez' proposed Latin American Socialist bloc?

If so then i would not get to worried as all the Socialist Latin American nations together will make them even stronger and present a united Socialist front to the Yankee Capitalists and their Imperialist policies in Latin America.

Also i think that what the Cuban foreign minister is saying is just symbolic as no ones sovereignty will be gone!

Rather this proposed Latin American Socialist bloc will be like an economic and military alliance for Socialist nations to make them stronger and less susceptible to Yankee Capitalist Imperialism.

And even if Cuba and Venezuela did go into a quasi union it would benefit Cuba and Venezuela tremendously as Cuba will be financially stable because of Venezuela's oil whilst Venezuela will benefit from trained Cuban doctors and military expertese.

[black magick hustla]

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 11:18 pm
Is this to do with Chavez' proposed Latin American Socialist bloc?

If so then i would not get to worried as all the Socialist Latin American nations together will make them even stronger and present a united Socialist front to the Yankee Capitalists and their Imperialist policies in Latin America.

Also i think that what the Cuban foreign minister is saying is just symbolic as no ones sovereignty will be gone!

Rather this proposed Latin American Socialist bloc will be like an economic and military alliance for Socialist nations to make them stronger and less susceptible to Yankee Capitalist Imperialism.
you hit the nail on the head.

There is nothing wrong if this means a united front with venezuela. Its only the miami, patriotic gusano scum who are crying about this.

[Raúl Duke]

I suppose its really more of a confederation they're speaking here; at least the 2nd article (in Spanish) makes some references to the makings of a confederation with other nations.

Well, I'm not sure about "yankee takeover" but Venezuela isn't as "socialist" as Cuba "is."Either way this bloc would probably continue resisting US influence in Latin America and probably, hopefully, end (or, at best, curb and limit) their hegemony there.

I wonder what happens to the US when they lose some major (but probably not all) in Latin America because of the bloc AND lose influence in the Middle East because of their possible defeat there.

[Eleftherios]

A Socialist Federation of Latin America is exactly what is needed. This would strengthen the revolutionary movement in Latin America and the resistance to American imperialism.

[Thunk00]

It's nice to see Hugo Chavéz is still taking steps away from Venezuela's capitalist past--as a realist, I doubt Venezuela will achieve socialism with him barring unforeseen circumstances, it's simply too great a task considering the country's past, but every progressive step he takes benefits the people of Venezuela, and sends an important message out to the rest of the world. If Venezuela and Cuba cooperate, a lot of good work can be done.

The article seems to only be quoting the Florida politically-motivated expatriates, as Marmot says. I would be interested to hear what actual Cubans and Venezuelans have to say about this proposed union. I'm also curious to know what kind of union it will be--will it be a loose economic union, like the Federation of Russia and Belarus, or an actual merge of the nations into one?

[Colonello Buendia]

This supposed union could have a tremendous impact. The Venezuelans would be able to supply oil and other such things. The yanks would have trouble with a socialist bloc right in their back yard. But how many countries would be involved?
Evo Morales maybe(I forget which country he governs), Venezuela and Cuba. What about NIacaragua and Equador... and even Argentina?

[ComradeR]

Hmm a "Union of Socialist Republics of the Americas" has a ring to it doesn't it? :P
Seriously though this could be a very good development and would strike a serious blow to US imperialism, and could act as a base for spreading class consciousness and potentially revolution.

[lvleph]

Evo Morales is Bolivian. I would doubt that Bolivians would support such a move. They got really pissed when the capital was going to be moved.

[Raúl Duke]

The article seems to only be quoting the Florida politically-motivated expatriates, as Marmot says. I would be interested to hear what actual Cubans and Venezuelans have to say about this proposed union. I'm also curious to know what kind of union it will be--will it be a loose economic union, like the Federation of Russia and Belarus, or an actual merge of the nations into one?

You can always check the Cuban and Venezuelan news sources...

(I've been having a hard time finding these articles...)

EDIT: This might be it: Cuban Source (http://www.juventudrebelde.cu/internacionales/2007-10-30/destaca-ricardo-alarcon-que-la-union-nos-dara-la-victoria/)

[Red Terror Doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 10:20 am
Hmm a "Union of Socialist Republics of the Americas" has a ring to it doesn't it? :P
Seriously though this could be a very good development and would strike a serious blow to US imperialism, and could act as a base for spreading class consciousness and potentially revolution.
No one wants a real united Latin America more than I do. Shit, with all the new immigrants coming in its territory, the USA is changing too. America will soon have a majority Spanish speaking population!

BUT----- a united Latin America could backfire because all the USA has to do is concentrate in destroying ONE government instead of a dozen or so in order to highjack the revolution like they did in the USSR.

[Eleftherios]

Originally posted by Red Terror Doctor+November 05, 2007 06:18 pm--> (Red Terror Doctor @ November 05, 2007 06:18 pm)
[email protected] 03, 2007 10:20 am
Hmm a "Union of Socialist Republics of the Americas" has a ring to it doesn't it? :P
Seriously though this could be a very good development and would strike a serious blow to US imperialism, and could act as a base for spreading class consciousness and potentially revolution.
No one wants a real united Latin America more than I do. Shit, with all the new immigrants coming in its territory, the USA is changing too. America will soon have a majority Spanish speaking population!

BUT----- a united Latin America could backfire because all the USA has to do is concentrate in destroying ONE government instead of a dozen or so in order to highjack the revolution like they did in the USSR. [/b]
Not so. One big, powerful government is much stronger and better to resist American imperialism than many smaller ones.

[Red Terror Doctor]

Originally posted by Alcaeos+November 06, 2007 12:22 am--> (Alcaeos @ November 06, 2007 12:22 am)
Originally posted by Red Terror [email protected] 05, 2007 06:18 pm

[email protected] 03, 2007 10:20 am
Hmm a "Union of Socialist Republics of the Americas" has a ring to it doesn't it? :P
Seriously though this could be a very good development and would strike a serious blow to US imperialism, and could act as a base for spreading class consciousness and potentially revolution.
No one wants a real united Latin America more than I do. Shit, with all the new immigrants coming in its territory, the USA is changing too. America will soon have a majority Spanish speaking population!

BUT----- a united Latin America could backfire because all the USA has to do is concentrate in destroying ONE government instead of a dozen or so in order to highjack the revolution like they did in the USSR.
Not so. One big, powerful government is much stronger and better to resist American imperialism than many smaller ones. [/b]
But many smaller ones remind me of Guerrilla Warfare! :lol:

[Comrade Nadezhda]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 04:20 am
Hmm a "Union of Socialist Republics of the Americas" has a ring to it doesn't it? :P
Seriously though this could be a very good development and would strike a serious blow to US imperialism, and could act as a base for spreading class consciousness and potentially revolution.
It definitely would have far better potential than it would otherwise.


BUT----- a united Latin America could backfire because all the USA has to do is concentrate in destroying ONE government instead of a dozen or so in order to highjack the revolution like they did in the USSR.
This kind of "centralization" would strengthen Latin America against US Imperialism, at least much moreso than now so it is ultimately progess as to small nations having to resist US imperialism-- it would be a lot more powerful and have a greater effect than it would otherwise.

[ComradeR]

BUT----- a united Latin America could backfire because all the USA has to do is concentrate in destroying ONE government instead of a dozen or so in order to highjack the revolution like they did in the USSR.
I disagree, a united Latin America would combine the resources along with the economic and military powers of the combined nations. It is actually far easier for the US to maintain imperial control over Latin America with it divided. Having Latin America unite would deal a fatal blow to US imperialism in the western hemisphere.

[Faux Real]

This is a great idea, though the conditions aren't quite there yet. As workers in countries become affected negatively more and more by the stranglehold of neo-liberal policy they will eventually make a 'left turn'.

There has been a strong history in Latin America, and the workers in most of them really are class conscious enough and have had a strong trend of class struggle to lead the way towards this type of union, either through revolution or reform (electing a leader like Chavez in, etc).

Also, I agree with the last two posts on Red Terror Doctor's concerns about US intervention.

[LSD]

You know, it's not actually a terrible idea.

It would depend of course on the specifics of the union that would be created, but Latin America could definitely bennefit from that kind of unification, especially economically.

And it might be the one thing that could save Cuba from complete disintegration. Right now, The Republic of Cuba is basically stuck somewhere between 1950s Stalinist fantasyland and Caribbean hyper-tourism. Despite that, a good segment of its population, and probably even government, is still committed to fundamental principles of revolutionary socialism.

A complete ground-up reorganization now is probably the best way to preserve that intention and lose the anachronistic cold war bullshit.

And obviously any such union would nescessitate the open discussion of issues of state and society. So although another bourgeois state would be the result, it would be one forged in the heat of open class struggle and revolutionary political debate.

Unfortunately, I don't think any of the other Latin American countries are prepared at this time to accept this Cuban offer, but I wouldn't be surprised to see something like it within the next ten years.

Certainly things seem to be moving in that general direction.

[Herman]

One of the best statements that Roque could have made. I'm glad they see the need for a Latin-American union to defend themselves from U.S. imperialism.

Most people have said it already: the conditions aren't quite there yet, but it's a first step and it shows a certain willingness to form a sort of confederation/federation.