Elephant on acid

[Pawn Power]

Elephant on acid, dog head grafts and a seesaw to revive the dead

Madness or genius? Magazine compiles list of most bizarre tests ever conducted in name of scientific inquiry

I'm going to go with madness...


One Friday in August 1962 Warren Thomas, director of Lincoln Park Zoo in Oklahoma City, raised his rifle and took aim at Tusko the elephant. With a squeeze of the trigger he scored a direct hit on the animal's rump, firing a cartridge full of the hallucinogenic drug LSD into the animal's bloodstream.

The dose was 3,000 times what a human might take for recreational purposes, and the results were extraordinary. Tusko charged around and trumpeted loudly for a few minutes before keeling over dead.

link to article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/nov/01/research)

[Comrade Rage]

To ascertain the effects of LSD on elephants, a zoo animal was given a dose 3,000 times larger than a human would take. The animal died within minutes. Photograph: Schalk van Zuydam/AP

That's gotta be one of the more crazy things I've heard of. Why do they need to know the effects of acid on an elephant? :blink:

[MarxSchmarx]

Acid schmacid: Check out the effect of Mangos!

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/90957/drunk_animals/

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by Pawn [email protected] 01, 2007 11:02 pm

Elephant on acid, dog head grafts and a seesaw to revive the dead

Madness or genius? Magazine compiles list of most bizarre tests ever conducted in name of scientific inquiry

I'm going to go with madness...


One Friday in August 1962 Warren Thomas, director of Lincoln Park Zoo in Oklahoma City, raised his rifle and took aim at Tusko the elephant. With a squeeze of the trigger he scored a direct hit on the animal's rump, firing a cartridge full of the hallucinogenic drug LSD into the animal's bloodstream.

The dose was 3,000 times what a human might take for recreational purposes, and the results were extraordinary. Tusko charged around and trumpeted loudly for a few minutes before keeling over dead.

link to article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/nov/01/research)
usually i'm not an animal rights type person, but that made me a bit angry. It was unnecessarilly cruel and had no scientific purpose.

[midnight marauder]

usually i'm not an animal rights type person, but that made me a bit angry. It was unnecessarilly cruel and had no scientific purpose.

Why? Animals have no rights.

[Donnie]

edit.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 01, 2007 06:17 pm

To ascertain the effects of LSD on elephants, a zoo animal was given a dose 3,000 times larger than a human would take. The animal died within minutes. Photograph: Schalk van Zuydam/AP

That's gotta be one of the more crazy things I've heard of. Why do they need to know the effects of acid on an elephant? :blink:
You clearly do not understand the scientific process. Perhaps they were trying to find the LD-50? Animals Are killed everyday to make our drugs safer.

I'm actually really surprised the elephant died, since I don't believe there's a single recorded dose of a human ever dying from lsd (could be wrong though).

Those last moments could have been the best ever for that elephant, he could have lied an eternity in just a few minutes.

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by midnight [email protected] 04, 2007 03:43 pm

usually i'm not an animal rights type person, but that made me a bit angry. It was unnecessarilly cruel and had no scientific purpose.

Why? Animals have no rights.
thats why i specifically said im 'not usually an animal rights person'. If you can construe some sort of benefit for the human species then in some way animal suffering can be justified but in this article it is quoted that there is a ''fine line between genius and madman, and in this instance they had firmly crossed this line'' and rightly so, IMHO. Even professional scientists were baffled as to the merits of this experiment.

[bezdomni]

We already know the LD-50 of LSD. The only reason I can imagine this test was conducted was to study the effects of LSD on Elephants, since elephants are really interesting animals and LSD is a really interesting chemical.

The person conducting the study probably did not realize that the dose he gave the elephant was too large, since LSD is incredibly non-toxic (no recorded overdoses in humans) and elephants are incredibly huge.

[The Feral Underclass]

Did the elephant die of poisoning?

[JazzRemington]

Hey, these people had a legitimate question that they needed to answer and they did it. I mean, what can't you do with the knowledge gained from studying the effects of LSD on elephants? Hell, you can probably stop world hunger for all you guys know!

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 04, 2007 03:02 pm
Did the elephant die of poisoning?

The dose was 3,000 times what a human might take for recreational purposes, and the results were extraordinary. Tusko charged around and trumpeted loudly for a few minutes before keeling over dead.

Thomas and his colleagues maintained the mishap was the result of a scientific experiment to investigate whether LSD brought on an unusual condition in which elephants become aggressive and secrete a sticky fluid from their glands. In a report of the incident submitted to the US journal Science four months later, the team concluded: "It appears that the elephant is highly sensitive to the effects of LSD."

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 06:59 pm
We already know the LD-50 of LSD. The only reason I can imagine this test was conducted was to study the effects of LSD on Elephants, since elephants are really interesting animals and LSD is a really interesting chemical.


it sounds to me like they did it for the lulz.

[which doctor]

The "3000 times a typical human dose" is an incredibly vague. I typical dose can be anything from 50micrograms to 500micrograms. So, "3000 times" is a huge range. He probably didn't even die from LSD poisoning.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by Pawn Power+November 04, 2007 11:22 pm--> (Pawn Power @ November 04, 2007 11:22 pm)
The Anarchist [email protected] 04, 2007 03:02 pm
Did the elephant die of poisoning?

The dose was 3,000 times what a human might take for recreational purposes, and the results were extraordinary. Tusko charged around and trumpeted loudly for a few minutes before keeling over dead.

Thomas and his colleagues maintained the mishap was the result of a scientific experiment to investigate whether LSD brought on an unusual condition in which elephants become aggressive and secrete a sticky fluid from their glands. In a report of the incident submitted to the US journal Science four months later, the team concluded: "It appears that the elephant is highly sensitive to the effects of LSD." [/b]
Yeah, I read it. I wanted to know if he died of poisoning.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by midnight [email protected] 04, 2007 04:43 pm

usually i'm not an animal rights type person, but that made me a bit angry. It was unnecessarilly cruel and had no scientific purpose.

Why? Animals have no rights.
Unless we afford them rights and as most animals, especially elephants have high cognitive and emotive capabilities I think that is justified. For example, an adult pig has the same cognitive and emotive abilities as a 3 year-old human child. Why should we not consider that?

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 01, 2007 11:17 pm

To ascertain the effects of LSD on elephants, a zoo animal was given a dose 3,000 times larger than a human would take. The animal died within minutes. Photograph: Schalk van Zuydam/AP

That's gotta be one of the more crazy things I've heard of. Why do they need to know the effects of acid on an elephant? :blink:
They want to see what happens?

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by midnight [email protected] 04, 2007 03:43 pm
Why? Animals have no rights.
No, animals don't have rights. Which doesn't mean we should perform stupid experiences that kill them for no good purpose. What would we gain from giving an elephant such an overdose? Did we still not know it would kill it? Even if so, why didn't they do it with mice? Why an elephant?

Maybe there is some scientific logic behind this apparently absurd experience, but I fail to see it. It seems those people were bored at work.

Luís Henrique

[Led Zeppelin]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 06, 2007 11:22 am
For example, an adult pig has the same cognitive and emotive abilities as a 3 year-old human child.
Pigs can't cry, so that's not true.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by The Anarchist Tension+November 06, 2007 06:19 am--> (The Anarchist Tension @ November 06, 2007 06:19 am)
Originally posted by Pawn [email protected] 04, 2007 11:22 pm

The Anarchist [email protected] 04, 2007 03:02 pm
Did the elephant die of poisoning?

The dose was 3,000 times what a human might take for recreational purposes, and the results were extraordinary. Tusko charged around and trumpeted loudly for a few minutes before keeling over dead.

Thomas and his colleagues maintained the mishap was the result of a scientific experiment to investigate whether LSD brought on an unusual condition in which elephants become aggressive and secrete a sticky fluid from their glands. In a report of the incident submitted to the US journal Science four months later, the team concluded: "It appears that the elephant is highly sensitive to the effects of LSD."
Yeah, I read it. I wanted to know if he died of poisoning. [/b]
That's all the explanation that is given in the article.

I guess it would be considered a type or poisoning.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by Led Zeppelin+November 06, 2007 02:57 pm--> (Led Zeppelin @ November 06, 2007 02:57 pm)
The Anarchist [email protected] 06, 2007 11:22 am
For example, an adult pig has the same cognitive and emotive abilities as a 3 year-old human child.
Pigs can't cry, so that's not true. [/b]
While what you say is perhaps true (although there is no evidence I can find) I do not see how it is related to the abilities of an animal to have emotive capabilities? It is shown that pigs have strong connections to their children and even immediate relatives or herd, which indicates emotive capabilities.

Most mammals do cry as a response to pain and incidentally it is suggested that elephants can cry as a direct emotional responses.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by Pawn Power+November 06, 2007 03:30 pm--> (Pawn Power @ November 06, 2007 03:30 pm)
Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 06, 2007 06:19 am

Originally posted by Pawn [email protected] 04, 2007 11:22 pm

The Anarchist [email protected] 04, 2007 03:02 pm
Did the elephant die of poisoning?

The dose was 3,000 times what a human might take for recreational purposes, and the results were extraordinary. Tusko charged around and trumpeted loudly for a few minutes before keeling over dead.

Thomas and his colleagues maintained the mishap was the result of a scientific experiment to investigate whether LSD brought on an unusual condition in which elephants become aggressive and secrete a sticky fluid from their glands. In a report of the incident submitted to the US journal Science four months later, the team concluded: "It appears that the elephant is highly sensitive to the effects of LSD."
Yeah, I read it. I wanted to know if he died of poisoning.
That's all the explanation that is given in the article.

I guess it would be considered a type or poisoning. [/b]
Well, he could have died of a heart attack or of a medical complication exacerbated by the LSD.

It's like Leah Betts - the poster girl for anti-MDMA campaigns - who is claimed died directly from the chemical MDMA. Actually, she died from liver failure, which was already a problem she had.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by The Anarchist Tension+November 06, 2007 09:39 am--> (The Anarchist Tension @ November 06, 2007 09:39 am)
Originally posted by Pawn [email protected] 06, 2007 03:30 pm

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 06, 2007 06:19 am

Originally posted by Pawn [email protected] 04, 2007 11:22 pm

The Anarchist [email protected] 04, 2007 03:02 pm
Did the elephant die of poisoning?

The dose was 3,000 times what a human might take for recreational purposes, and the results were extraordinary. Tusko charged around and trumpeted loudly for a few minutes before keeling over dead.

Thomas and his colleagues maintained the mishap was the result of a scientific experiment to investigate whether LSD brought on an unusual condition in which elephants become aggressive and secrete a sticky fluid from their glands. In a report of the incident submitted to the US journal Science four months later, the team concluded: "It appears that the elephant is highly sensitive to the effects of LSD."
Yeah, I read it. I wanted to know if he died of poisoning.
That's all the explanation that is given in the article.

I guess it would be considered a type or poisoning.
Well, he could have died of a heart attack or of a medical complication exacerbated by the LSD.

It's like Leah Betts - the poster girl for anti-MDMA campaigns - who is claimed died directly from the chemical MDMA. Actually, she died from liver failure, which was already a problem she had. [/b]
That's a good point. I was initially suprised that the LCD killed such a large anilimal since I never heard of it being fatal to humans, even in large doses. Now this was a really large dose and they claim that elefants are more sensitive to the the drug, so who knows. The article itself isn't very scientific.

[The Feral Underclass]

It was a stupid thing to do in any case!

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by Pawn [email protected] 06, 2007 03:22 pm
I was initially suprised that the LCD killed such a large anilimal since I never heard of it being fatal to humans, even in large doses. Now this was a really large dose and they claim that elefants are more sensitive to the the drug, so who knows. The article itself isn't very scientific.
An average male human weighs about 200 lbs. An average male elephant weighs about 10,000 lbs. Which means an average elephant weighs about 50 times more than an average human. They gave the elephant a dose 3,000 times a "recreational" human dose - which means they poisoned the critter with a dose 60 times higher than a "recreational" dose. Which would be similar, I guess, to someone licking 60 LSD stamps no-stop. I fail to see how it was a good idea to do that to an animal whose species isn't noted for its widespread proliferation - much on the contrary.

Luís Henrique

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by Luís Henrique+November 06, 2007 01:52 pm--> (Luís Henrique @ November 06, 2007 01:52 pm)
midnight [email protected] 04, 2007 03:43 pm
Why? Animals have no rights.
No, animals don't have rights. Which doesn't mean we should perform stupid experiences that kill them for no good purpose. What would we gain from giving an elephant such an overdose? Did we still not know it would kill it? Even if so, why didn't they do it with mice? Why an elephant?

Maybe there is some scientific logic behind this apparently absurd experience, but I fail to see it. It seems those people were bored at work.

Luís Henrique [/b]
Humans do not have any inherent rights either. We have the right we are struggling for, they are not granted from heaven, the state or your parents, but from our will to triumph. :P

[Eleftherios]

Originally posted by Luís Henrique+November 06, 2007 07:52 am--> (Luís Henrique @ November 06, 2007 07:52 am)
midnight [email protected] 04, 2007 03:43 pm
Why? Animals have no rights.
No, animals don't have rights. Which doesn't mean we should perform stupid experiences that kill them for no good purpose. What would we gain from giving an elephant such an overdose? Did we still not know it would kill it? Even if so, why didn't they do it with mice? Why an elephant?

[/b]
Agreed. Why would they want to know the effects of extremely large doses of LSD on an elephant? Even though complex animals such as elephants don't have rights, they shouldn't die or be made to suffer for no good reason.


I was initially suprised that the LCD killed such a large anilimal since I never heard of it being fatal to humans, even in large doses.

Me neither, but that does not mean that LSD doesn't have the potential to be harmful in extremely large doses.

[Donnie]

I think that LSD is similar to humans as MDMA is. You cannot overdose from MDMA because your body just absurbs the chemical. Obviously the effects wear off as your seratonine gland is unable to generate the hormone.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Alcaeos+November 06, 2007 06:40 pm--> (Alcaeos @ November 06, 2007 06:40 pm)
Originally posted by Luís [email protected] 06, 2007 07:52 am

midnight [email protected] 04, 2007 03:43 pm
Why? Animals have no rights.
No, animals don't have rights. Which doesn't mean we should perform stupid experiences that kill them for no good purpose. What would we gain from giving an elephant such an overdose? Did we still not know it would kill it? Even if so, why didn't they do it with mice? Why an elephant?


Agreed. Why would they want to know the effects of extremely large doses of LSD on an elephant? Even though complex animals such as elephants don't have rights, they shouldn't die or be made to suffer for no good reason.


I was initially suprised that the LCD killed such a large anilimal since I never heard of it being fatal to humans, even in large doses.

Me neither, but that does not mean that LSD doesn't have the potential to be harmful in extremely large doses. [/b]
Have you ever heard of science? We always test things on animals before we test them on humans. They are an invaluable resource.

Though, as much as I'd love free lsd...

[Eleftherios]

Originally posted by FoB+November 06, 2007 10:34 pm--> (FoB @ November 06, 2007 10:34 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 06:40 pm

Originally posted by Luís [email protected] 06, 2007 07:52 am

midnight [email protected] 04, 2007 03:43 pm
Why? Animals have no rights.
No, animals don't have rights. Which doesn't mean we should perform stupid experiences that kill them for no good purpose. What would we gain from giving an elephant such an overdose? Did we still not know it would kill it? Even if so, why didn't they do it with mice? Why an elephant?


Agreed. Why would they want to know the effects of extremely large doses of LSD on an elephant? Even though complex animals such as elephants don't have rights, they shouldn't die or be made to suffer for no good reason.


I was initially suprised that the LCD killed such a large anilimal since I never heard of it being fatal to humans, even in large doses.

Me neither, but that does not mean that LSD doesn't have the potential to be harmful in extremely large doses.
Have you ever heard of science? We always test things on animals before we test them on humans. They are an invaluable resource.

Though, as much as I'd love free lsd... [/b]
As a matter of fact, I have heard of science. I was just having a hard time trying to figure out the scientific merit of such an experiment.