All Whites are Racists

[lvleph]

Originally posted by worldnetdaily
A mandatory University of Delaware program requires residence hall students to acknowledge that "all whites are racist" and offers them "treatment" for any incorrect attitudes regarding class, gender, religion, culture or sexuality they might hold upon entering the school, according to a civil rights group.

"Somehow, the University of Delaware seems terrifyingly unaware that a state-sponsored institution of higher education in the United States does not have the legal right to engage in a program of systematic thought reform. The First Amendment protects the right to freedom of conscience – the right to keep our innermost thoughts free from governmental intrusion. It also protects the right to be free from compelled speech," said a letter from Samantha Harris, director of legal and public advocacy for The Foundation for Individual Rights in Education to university President Patrick Harker.

The organization cited excerpts from the university's Office of Residence Life Diversity Education Training documents, including the statement:

"A RACIST: A racist is one who is both privileged and socialized on the basis of race by a white supremacist (racist) system. 'The term applies to all white people (i.e., people of European descent) living in the United States, regardless of class, gender, religion, culture or sexuality. By this definition, people of color cannot be racists, because as peoples within the U.S. system, they do not have the power to back up their prejudices, hostilities, or acts of discrimination….'"

The education program also notes that "reverse racism" is "a term created and used by white people to deny their white privilege." And "a non-racist" is called "a non-term," because, the program explains, "The term was created by whites to deny responsibility for systemic racism, to maintain an aura of innocence in the face of racial oppression, and to shift the responsibility for that oppression from whites to people of color (called 'blaming the victim')."

The "education" regarding racism is just one of the subjects that students are required to adopt as part of their University of Delaware experience, too, FIRE noted.

The "shocking program of ideological reeducation," which the school itself defines as a "treatment" for students' incorrect attitudes and beliefs, is nothing less than "Orwellian," FIRE said.

The school requires its approximately 7,000 residence hall students "to adopt highly specific university-approved views on issues ranging from politics to race, sexuality, sociology, moral philosophy and environmentalism."

"FIRE is calling for the total dismantling of the program, which is a flagrant violation of students' rights to freedom of conscience and freedom from compelled speech," the organization said.

On a foundation blog, a student noted that one residence assistant told students, "Not to scare anyone or anything, but these are MANDATORY!!" And the training program for those who indoctrinate students includes the order: "A researcher must document that the treatment/intervention was faithfully applied (ex: specific lesson plans were delivered to every student, etc.)."

Further, the school requires "a systemic change" as a result of the program, FIRE noted. As one RA told students: "Like it or not, you all are the future Leaders, and the world is Diverse, so learning to Embrace and Appreciate that diversity is ESSENTIAL."

"The University of Delaware's residence life education program is a grave intrusion into students' private beliefs," FIRE President Greg Lukianoff said. "The university has decided that it is not enough to expose its students to the values it considers important; instead, it must coerce its students into accepting those values as their own. At a public university like Delaware, this is both unconscionable and unconstitutional."

According to university materials, RAs are instructed to ask students during one-on-one sessions questions such as: "When did you discover your sexual identity?" "When were you first made aware of your race?" and "Who taught you a lesson in regard to some sort of diversity awarness? What was the lesson?"

"Students who express discomfort with this type of questioning often meet with disapproval from their RAs, who write reports on these one-on-one sessions and deliver these reports to their superiors. One student identified in a write-up as an RA's 'worst' one-on-one session was a young woman who stated that she was tired of having 'diversity shoved down her throat,'" FIRE said.

This particular student responded to the question, "When did you discover your sexual identity?" with the terse: "That is none of your damn business," FIRE said.

Requirements for students include: "Students will recognize that systemic oppression exists in our society," "Students will recognize the benefits of dismantling systems of oppression," and "Students will be able to utilize their knowledge of sustainability to change their daily habits and consumer mentality," FIRE said.

The foundation said students even are "pressured or even required" to make social statements that meet with the school's approval.

"The fact that the university views its students as patients in need of treatment for some sort of moral sickness betrays a total lack of respect not only for students' basic rights, but for students themselves," Lukianoff said. "The University of Delaware has both a legal and a moral obligation to immediately dismantle this program, and FIRE will not rest until it has."

A spokesman for the school, contacted by WND, said he was not ready to make a statement about the situation right away.

But the foundation's letter to Harker noted, "we have never encountered a more systematic assault upon the individual liberty, dignity, privacy, and autonomy of university students than this program," which "requires students to adopt highly specific university-approved views on issues."

"Such utter contempt for the autonomy and free agency of others is the hallmark of totalitarianism and has no place in any free society, let alone at a public university in the state of Delaware," the letter said.

Especially alarming, Harris told WND, is that the school defines learning specifically as "attitudinal or behavioral changes," not acquiring any sort of knowledge and ability.

Such thinking "represents a distorted idea of 'education' that one would more easily associate with a Soviet prison camp than with an American institution of higher education," FIRE said. "As another example, after an investigation showed that males demonstrated 'a higher degree of resistance to educational efforts,' the Rodney complex chose to hire 'strong male RAs.' Each such RA 'combats male residents' concepts of traditional male identity,' in order to 'ensure the delivery of the curriculum at the same level as in the female floors.' This language is disturbingly reminiscent of a pivotal scene from George Orwell's '1984,' in which the protagonist's captors tell him that 'The Party is not interested in the overt act: the thought is all we care about. We do not merely destroy our enemies, we change them.'"

No small danger, FIRE noted, is being presented to the university through such apparent constitutional violations. "Simply put, the residence life education program is a legal minefield," the group said.

One student reacted to the indoctrination with rebellion. On the FIRE blog, he wrote:

"Take the issue of homosexuality, and the rights that should or should not be associated with it. As a Christian, I believe that the Bible says homosexuality is wrong, and is a sin against God. As such, I cannot accept it as a legitimate lifestyle. While I accept homosexuals as people, I do not accept their choice as right, and subsequently I do not think that homosexual couples should be given marital rights. I accept that others do not hold the same views as me. But it is wrong that under the Residence Life curriculum and school mandated curriculum that I should made to feel guilty for my views. … It is not the school's right to try to convince me to embrace the values that Residence Life has chosen. Essentially, if I do not change my views, I will be labeled by my RA as not embracing diversity, and not accepting of certain groups, and thus my RA will try all the harder to change me. This is not the school's job, or right."

source (http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58426)

Personally, I think their definition of a racist is crap. I don't see how the privileged subject of a racist system is automatically racist themselves. The logic doesn't seem to follow at all. It is sort of seems like the same logic as the idea as original sin. Since Adam and Eve sinned that makes their descendants sinners. I could see how one may argue that the privileged subject in a racist system is a racist if they benefit from their privilege without trying to change the system.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Your source looks like a right-wing website reporting the opinions of a conservative think tank, so I would take their claims with a giant mountain of salt. I'd like to hear the other side of the story too.

[synthesis]

All white people are, in fact, racist. As a matter of fact, all people are racist - human psychology has a tendency to stereotype as a sort of mental "shortcut." Being a racist is not "bad" unless you maintain ignorant beliefs in the presence of contradictory evidence.

The point is that in this society white people are in most positions of power - they control the economy, the government, and the schools. The thing is that most whites believe that they are not racist because they do not actively hate minorities.

But, for example, studies have shown that employers are far less likely to respond to resumes with names like Tyrone than the same resume with "white" names like John or Richard. This is the more subtle and truly harmful racism that we see after de jure segregation has been dismantled - the racism that people don't consciously engage in but perpetuates oppression regardless.

[Labor Shall Rule]

No, not all whites are racists. We don't all have white robes, crosses, and a can of kerosene in our closets.

[spartan]

No, not all whites are racists. We don't all have white robes, crosses, and a can of kerosene in our closets.
Speak for yourself :ph34r: :lol:

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by Labor Shall [email protected] 31, 2007 09:16 pm
No, not all whites are racists. We don't all have white robes, crosses, and a can of kerosene in our closets.
Nor do most racists. Most racists have a few suit jackets and some spare shoes in their closet.

[RGacky3]

Some People are taking defining racism way way too far, many leftists are guilty of this, taking the idea of racism to cartoonish levels.

[RedAnarchist]

Saying that people of colour cannot be rascist is rascist in itself, because you are saying they are not human enough to hold what is a human feeling (hatred towards others).

Saying that all white people are rascist is also rascist, because you are making a huge, abseless generalisation that helps noone.

[midnight marauder]

I think Edric O is absolutely right on this topic: this is an article that, more than educating us on this particular story, tells us a whole lot about the conservative (and liberal) approach to race relations. To understand this article and the views that it's attempting to report on, you have to leave the confines of moderate racial theory and understand what exactly institutional racism entails, what propagates it, and what it takes to make progress in a systematically racist world.

Because when this article lists its definitions of "racist" and "reverse racism", it's spot on. It isn't about insulting people or accusing innocent people of being racists, but rather, as they say in Alcoholics Anonymous, that the first step to solving anything is admitting that we have a problem. In this case, that means acknowledging that racism doesn't just arise and it isn't something that we're isolated from, but to the contrary, that institutional racism is something that is reflected and sustained through racial, educational, and monetary privilege among a vast list of other race-related privileges, through our norms and traditions, through our culture, and through our ideas and actions.

These are all different areas of human social interaction that we all engage in, and being an anti-racist or even a leftist unfortunately doesn't make one immune from being a part of this tragic and unintended cycle.

There's a piece from a local Kansas City radical named Joe Miller where he's talking with a young woman about debate norms that I think is really relevent. It's a little out of context, but I think it does a wonderful job in explaining what exactly it means to live in a country where racism is an intrinsic part of our culture, and where racist hierarchy and privilege permeate every facet of our interactions with other people -- and what it takes to change that:

"I think it's important to understand what I mean by institutional racism. And you need to go with the entire context of my comment. The young woman asked me if she's being racist by participating in so called traditional debate norms. I said yes, and then I quickly followed that up by saying that I am a racist. At which point the black woman beside me nodded her head and said, "I'm racist, too." Obviously we're not talking racism in the white-hoods-and-burning-crosses sense. Jennifer and I were making a point that institutional racism is a pervasive force that continues to keep our society divided and unequal, and that infects all of us on very, very deep levels. It's so pervasive that it infects even black women who teach in the innercity and radical crazy white dudes like me. It plays out in virtually all of interactions. We don't see it, at least not in the way would have had we all been around 60 years ago when a a 14-year-old boy was savagely beaten to death and thrown in a river for whistling at a white woman, and his killers were let go by an all-white jury even though they had an eyewitness who fingered them as the perpetrators. Such overt racism is no longer the norm. Yet the data bears out continual racial division and inequality. And that division and inequality -- this de facto degregation -- is a result of our interactions, our norms. Debate is not immune to this. In fact, it's pretty obvious that it's quite susceptable with even the most casual glance at the demographics.

So the point we were trying to make is that we're all connected to the way society is made, the way our community is made. We are accountable, utlimately, through the things we do, the norms we uphold, for the way our society/community is. So if our society is racially divided and unequal -- i.e. racist, numerically speaking -- then it floows that our traditions are as well.

Certainly this is an arguable enthememe, a point for debate (which is, obviously, the point). But it's a valid point, one I don't make alone."

[Comrade Nadezhda]

I am not racist, all races are equal-- white people, african americans, whatever-- it doesn't make a difference. we are all human -- there is no difference. And I, myself am white. I am not prejudice-- I don't see whites as being "higher" than any other race-- this is a false conception and it is quite idiotic. It is also idiotic to classify racists by such a definition because it is of no value at all-- racists come in all different varieties.

[synthesis]

People do not understand that there is such a thing as subtle racism that can have drastic effects when it is considered the norm. In this sense, everyone is racist, but we cannot attach value judgments to this. It is a problem that needs to be corrected, not an inherent aspect of the nature of evil people.

[KC]

I don't think it's right to say that all whites are racist; it is true, however, that all whites benefit from racism.


I am not racist, all races are equal

They definitely aren't, and that's the problem.


I am not racist, all races are equal-- white people, african americans, whatever-- it doesn't make a difference. we are all human -- there is no difference.

Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.

[TC]

All whites aren't racists in the sense of having bigoted opinions about non-whites but they are almost all* beneficiaries of racially biased social organisation. (This is true of Asians in the US as well, of Chinese in Singapore, Jews regardless of race in Israel, Arabs in the UAR, Japanese in Japan, etc)

*the exceptions being homeless whites and others well below the standard level of poverty that black and other under privileged ethic groups have.

[Dros]

I think the word racist is over-used. Racist should mean one who is actively and conciously discrimanatory. Racism thus does not require racists (as is the case with institutionalized racism). I do agree that all people including all white people exist within a social structure that systemically creates racial bias within thought process, not because the person is a bigot, but simply through living in society. All groups of people are impacted by the coercive ideology of race, not just white people insofar as everybody thinks within these constructs of race set up by society.

[synthesis]

All whites aren't racists in the sense of having bigoted opinions about non-whites

I think it is safer to assume that there are more ways in which white Americans are ignorant of the experience of being black than ways in which whites can truly relate. Being oppressed due to your relation to the means of production is entirely different from being oppressed due to your genetic makeup. And the ultimate lesson is that people who wish to be progressive must assume ignorance in themselves, as knowledge is impossible to obtain if we think we have all the answers already.

[Comrade Rage]

Originally posted by Edric [email protected] 31, 2007 03:53 pm
Your source looks like a right-wing website reporting the opinions of a conservative think tank, so I would take their claims with a giant mountain of salt. I'd like to hear the other side of the story too.
World Net Daily is a conservative news site and publishing house, and it's well known for these Horowitz-style stories. Look at some of the books they've published, including the Savage Nation, which was written by borderline fascist Michael Savage.

[Dean]

Racism is simply arbitrary, unreasonable judgement based on ethnicity or "race." Institutionalized racism is described above, and it's highly offensive to me that I am called "racist" for being white. That is doublespeak if I've ever heard it.

And for that matter, it is NOT true that all people are racist. Racism describes a distinct psychological activity in which xenophobia is applied to ethnic distinctions. I have no doubt that many decent people have latent racism, perhaps a majority of people. But that is neither an inherant human characteristic nor a necessary trend. People respond to their conditions appropriately; in a classless society, racism would be negligibly present at best; the xenophobic concept of downgrading certain groups of humans into a category of subhumans would be logically impossible on any wide scale, so application of such concepts - necessary for racism - would not happen except amongst a few people.

[Comrade Nadezhda]

They definitely aren't, and that's the problem.
yes, under the bourgeois state. that doesn't mean they aren't equal to whites, that just means they are regarded that way.


Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.
I'm not-- I never mentioned anything in regards to the problem-- I just simply said that regardless if white people think so or not they are no different from them.

Of course I acknowledge that there is a great deal of prejudice and racism, especially in regards to the ruling class.


I don't think it's right to say that all whites are racist; it is true, however, that all whites benefit from racism.
Yes, the ruling class does-- it's another means of exploitation.

[hajduk]

well here in Bosnia what i see about racism is that bosnians people looks at gypsies same as americans look at afro-americans

[lvleph]

I would have to claim that not all whites benefit from racism. Try growing up in a non-white poor neighborhood as the only white kid in that neighborhood. Getting jumped all the time is certainly not beneficial.

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2007 02:32 pm
I would have to claim that not all whites benefit from racism. Try growing up in a non-white poor neighborhood as the only white kid in that neighborhood. Getting jumped all the time is certainly not beneficial.
How do you mean, jumped?

[Libertarian Socialist Movement]

the world is filled with different prejudices, as cheesey as it sounds the only way around this is to learn to laugh at yourself, and look at you flaws as well, in a nutshell the only way to seriously abolish racism is to, look at it from a funnier point of veiw, its stupid grade school behaivor, and im sure most of the comrades here will agree, its really easy to laugh at a redneck peckerwood, who hates people and doesnt even kno why he hates them. basically make it one big joke.
now how much affecct can a joke make on society.
for instance racial jokes are fine, as long as they arnt taken seriously by the minority, and they shouldnt be, let people think what they want, they wont get very far

[lvleph]

Originally posted by Red_Anarchist+November 01, 2007 01:39 pm--> (Red_Anarchist @ November 01, 2007 01:39 pm)
[email protected] 01, 2007 02:32 pm
I would have to claim that not all whites benefit from racism. Try growing up in a non-white poor neighborhood as the only white kid in that neighborhood. Getting jumped all the time is certainly not beneficial.
How do you mean, jumped? [/b]
Oh sorry for the slang.

Jumped - to be beaten up by multiple people.

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by lvleph+November 01, 2007 04:56 pm--> (lvleph @ November 01, 2007 04:56 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2007 01:39 pm

[email protected] 01, 2007 02:32 pm
I would have to claim that not all whites benefit from racism. Try growing up in a non-white poor neighborhood as the only white kid in that neighborhood. Getting jumped all the time is certainly not beneficial.
How do you mean, jumped?
Oh sorry for the slang.

Jumped - to be beaten up by multiple people. [/b]
Why were you beaten up? Were you richer than them, or did they see you as a white person, and therefore the same as the white middle class?

[AAFCE]

I have been informed by many black people.

"Only cracka ass mofuckas be all racist up in hurr"

Notice the use of cracka..

[lvleph]

Originally posted by Red_Anarchist+November 01, 2007 04:02 pm--> (Red_Anarchist @ November 01, 2007 04:02 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2007 04:56 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2007 01:39 pm

[email protected] 01, 2007 02:32 pm
I would have to claim that not all whites benefit from racism. Try growing up in a non-white poor neighborhood as the only white kid in that neighborhood. Getting jumped all the time is certainly not beneficial.
How do you mean, jumped?
Oh sorry for the slang.

Jumped - to be beaten up by multiple people.
Why were you beaten up? Were you richer than them, or did they see you as a white person, and therefore the same as the white middle class? [/b]
I was probably poorer than them. I was beaten up, I assume, because of the their frustration with the racist system. I don't really know, because at the time I was 9 years old, when most of that happened.

[Ultra-Violence]

White People :angry: ^^^^^


You will Never know what it feels like to be fucking discrimanted your whole fucking life and you can say Well i dont see color FUCK YOU *****! Im Fucking Brown and dont act like you dont see my color. You people should be at the front lines fighting racism but what Do i see just colored people really White america could give a rats ass and they talk about Equal opurtunityFUCK YOU! I wish one day you were in my shoes just so you would know how it felt like to be or any another person of color.

[lvleph]

Originally posted by Ultra-[email protected] 01, 2007 04:28 pm
White People :angry: ^^^^^


You will Never know what it feels like to be fucking discrimanted your whole fucking life and you can say Well i dont see color FUCK YOU *****! Im Fucking Brown and dont act like you dont see my color. You people should be at the front lines fighting racism but what Do i see just colored people really White america could give a rats ass and they talk about Equal opurtunityFUCK YOU! I wish one day you were in my shoes just so you would know how it felt like to be or any another person of color.
I wasn't belittling the experiences of those that have suffered from a racist system. I was saying that it was not my fault, and have suffered from it too. Obviously, no where near as much as someone that is not white. The nice thing about the internet is that I would have never known what color your skin was if you hadn't said so and one is not discriminated based on their color until they reveal what color they are. EDIT: (Well, discriminated personally. Which of course doesn't mean much.)

BTW, I was arguing with someone the other day, about how the system may provide the same opportunities, but it is not truly equal. My argument was based on the struggle a under-privileged (read discriminated) person has to go through to get to the same point that a more privileged person can obtain easily. I was specifically talking to him about the poor (because in the USA minorities tend to be poor). This individual and I are both white, but grew up in the inner city slums, and both of us had to work hard to obtain our respective degrees. I made the point that all things being equal (grades, color, etc.) the poor person, once they have achieved their degree will not be as well off as the rich person. Because, the rich person had daddy pay for everything while the poor person most likely took loans. Now, if the system were truly equal then both persons would leave school and obtain a job with the same potential for quality of life. However, due to the inequality that exists in the system, the poor person has student loans and therefore does not have the same quality of life. And therefore the system cannot truly provide equal opportunity.

[RGacky3]

You will Never know what it feels like to be fucking discrimanted your whole fucking life and you can say Well i dont see color FUCK YOU *****! Im Fucking Brown and dont act like you dont see my color. You people should be at the front lines fighting racism but what Do i see just colored people really White america could give a rats ass and they talk about Equal opurtunityFUCK YOU! I wish one day you were in my shoes just so you would know how it felt like to be or any another person of color.

You are an angry guy.

You know where I see the most Racism where I am? Mexicans racist a against black people, and vis a versa.

A guy could get beaten up for being a white guy in a black neighborhood, a black guy in a white school, a guy could get beaten up just for dressing differently, it does'nt matter, its all wrong.

[hajduk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2007 05:06 pm


A guy could get beaten up for being a white guy in a black neighborhood,
that is called black racism when those who been under racism back with the same hate

[RedAnarchist]

Originally posted by hajduk+November 01, 2007 06:14 pm--> (hajduk @ November 01, 2007 06:14 pm)
[email protected] 01, 2007 05:06 pm


A guy could get beaten up for being a white guy in a black neighborhood,
that is called black racism when those who been under racism back with the same hate [/b]
No, its not. Its more like misplaced revenge - attacking a random white person instead of attacking the authorities and the far right.

[hajduk]

Originally posted by Red_Anarchist+November 01, 2007 06:24 pm--> (Red_Anarchist @ November 01, 2007 06:24 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2007 06:14 pm

[email protected] 01, 2007 05:06 pm


A guy could get beaten up for being a white guy in a black neighborhood,
that is called black racism when those who been under racism back with the same hate
No, its not. Its more like misplaced revenge - attacking a random white person instead of attacking the authorities and the far right. [/b]
i think that PUBLIC ENEMY actualy made it the term about black racism but i think they called different then this

[Obese-Dimentia]

I think half the reason white people end up even subtle racists is due to the "Misguided Payback". I know that all day I watch the news and am constantly bombarded with apologetic white people paying omage to African Americans. This leads to a complex of white kids feeling they need to be "sorry" about something they've never done. Is a kid ever truely sorry, or does he only say he is? The Kid feels resentful then towards African Americans, for stupid reasons yes, but he is resentful.

Then there is the rapper culture, that even down to nine year olds are getting in to. This causes a subtle form of racism, as black people are held on a pedastal for some celebrities bad grammer and "ho's". Not all black people are gang-beatin big bad mutha ******. A lot of them are smarter than so many white people. this forms a wierd subtle racism which groups all black's into the category of "Gangster"



I agree with Libertarian socialist movement, an element of humor can eliminate racism

[KC]

the world is filled with different prejudices, as cheesey as it sounds the only way around this is to learn to laugh at yourself, and look at you flaws as well, in a nutshell the only way to seriously abolish racism is to, look at it from a funnier point of veiw, its stupid grade school behaivor, and im sure most of the comrades here will agree, its really easy to laugh at a redneck peckerwood, who hates people and doesnt even kno why he hates them. basically make it one big joke.

First, nothing you said is ever going to abolish racism. Second, "redneck" is just as prejudiced as any racial slur so you shouldn't be using it.


for instance racial jokes are fine, as long as they arnt taken seriously by the minority, and they shouldnt be, let people think what they want, they wont get very far

Yeah, hear the one about the jew in the oven?

<_<


I have been informed by many black people.

"Only cracka ass mofuckas be all racist up in hurr"

Notice the use of cracka..

Cracker =/= white person.


White People mad.gif ^^^^^


You will Never know what it feels like to be fucking discrimanted your whole fucking life and you can say Well i dont see color FUCK YOU *****&#33; Im Fucking Brown and dont act like you dont see my color. You people should be at the front lines fighting racism but what Do i see just colored people really White america could give a rats ass and they talk about Equal opurtunityFUCK YOU&#33; I wish one day you were in my shoes just so you would know how it felt like to be or any another person of color.

You obviously don&#39;t understand racism.

[RGacky3]

This leads to a complex of white kids feeling they need to be "sorry" about something they&#39;ve never done. Is a kid ever truely sorry, or does he only say he is?

Since when does a kid have to feel sorry about something he never did, or about what other people have done years ago that happend to be the same color as him, and may be doing, even though this kid does&#39;nt know them or have any dealings with them, since when is anyone responsible for what other people of the same skin color do?

[lvleph]

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2007 09:47 pm

This leads to a complex of white kids feeling they need to be "sorry" about something they&#39;ve never done. Is a kid ever truely sorry, or does he only say he is?

Since when does a kid have to feel sorry about something he never did, or about what other people have done years ago that happend to be the same color as him, and may be doing, even though this kid does&#39;nt know them or have any dealings with them, since when is anyone responsible for what other people of the same skin color do?
I have to agree that white people in the USA are told they should feel guilty for what our parents, grandparent, etc. have done. I don&#39;t feel guilty; it makes me angry.

[Great Helmsman]

White guilt may not be entirely correct, but it&#39;s helpful in breaking apart historical illusions and the white supremacist nation.

[¡Viva la Libertad&#33;]

What a bunch of BS&#33; :angry: I&#39;m not racist due to my light complexion. Not only is that wrong, it is absolutely disgusting.

[Led Zeppelin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2007 11:18 pm
What a bunch of BS&#33; :angry: I&#39;m not racist due to my light complexion. Not only is that wrong, it is absolutely disgusting.
No one said you were racist. You are however benefiting from racism, wether you like it or not.

You can&#39;t change the way other people perceive you (or others), so it&#39;s not your fault, and no one said it was.

[spartan]

It is not that all whites are racist.

Rather it is that the majority of whites, mostly the Bourgeoisie and the upper Proletariat, benefit from the unknown institutional racism of a minority of high placed whites who continually hold non-whites down and stop them from advancing beyond a certain level (Rather like women and the "glass ceiling" in buisness and the modern workplace).

Saying that all whites are racist is stupid as, the chances are, the majority of white people probably are not racist in anyway&#33;

It is just that most, not all as their are poor white people remember, whites benefit from racism.

[Comrade Rage]

Originally posted by Ultra&#045;Violence+November 01, 2007 11:28 am--> (Ultra&#045;Violence &#064; November 01, 2007 11:28 am) White People :angry: ^^^^^


You will Never know what it feels like to be fucking discrimanted your whole fucking life and you can say Well i dont see color FUCK YOU *****&#33; Im Fucking Brown and dont act like you dont see my color. You people should be at the front lines fighting racism but what Do i see just colored people really White america could give a rats ass and they talk about Equal opurtunityFUCK YOU&#33; I wish one day you were in my shoes just so you would know how it felt like to be or any another person of color. [/b]
Are you trying to become the most angry guy on RevLeft or something? Not only is your post a blithering rant full of inaccuracies and hatred, but with your username of Ultra-Violence together with your member title of &#39;Anarcho Communist Idealist&#39; you really look insane.

(Communsit :blink: )

I&#39;ll still rip apart your &#39;argument&#39; even if you look like a pale nutter, or as if someone hijacked your account:


Originally posted by Ultra Nutter+--> (Ultra Nutter)Well i dont see color [/b]

Originally posted by Ultra Nutter
Im Fucking Brown and dont act like you dont see my color.
LMAO
Kind of disproves your earlier point doesn&#39;t it?&#33;


Originally posted by Ultra Nutter
You people should be at the front lines fighting racism
I would actually agree with that sentence, but wtf is with the &#39;you people&#39; bullshit?


Ultra [email protected]
You will Never know what it feels like to be fucking discrimanted your whole fucking life
I think the guy who was jumped would disagree. BTW I grew up in the same kind of background he did too.

But maybe the fact that a ton of discrimination in America is based on class.


Ultra Nutter
FUCK YOU *****&#33;
Ohh waah III&#39;mmm s-s-sooo scared-d-d-d.

NOT&#33;&#33;

Of course you could actually fight to end racism, but you&#39;re too busy spewing invective at people who mean you no harm. :rolleyes:

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by lvleph+November 01, 2007 04:08 pm--> (lvleph @ November 01, 2007 04:08 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2007 04:02 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2007 04:56 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2007 01:39 pm

[email protected] 01, 2007 02:32 pm
I would have to claim that not all whites benefit from racism. Try growing up in a non-white poor neighborhood as the only white kid in that neighborhood. Getting jumped all the time is certainly not beneficial.
How do you mean, jumped?
Oh sorry for the slang.

Jumped - to be beaten up by multiple people.
Why were you beaten up? Were you richer than them, or did they see you as a white person, and therefore the same as the white middle class?
I was probably poorer than them. I was beaten up, I assume, because of the their frustration with the racist system. I don&#39;t really know, because at the time I was 9 years old, when most of that happened. [/b]
Fine, but you&#39;re missing the point- one tat has been reiterated many times in this thread.

That the system as a whole benefits white people, never mind one or two incidents in your life that make you feel otherwise.

You will never be denied housing or work because of your race.

You will never have people ask if you speak English, or "where you&#39;re from" (something I experience all the time) because of your colour.

Furthermore, are you sure the attacks on you were motivated by race?

[lvleph]

Originally posted by Mujer [email protected] 02, 2007 12:50 am
Fine, but you&#39;re missing the point- one tat has been reiterated many times in this thread.

That the system as a whole benefits white people, never mind one or two incidents in your life that make you feel otherwise.

You will never be denied housing or work because of your race.

You will never have people ask if you speak English, or "where you&#39;re from" (something I experience all the time) because of your colour.

Furthermore, are you sure the attacks on you were motivated by race?
I said myself that the system is racist. And yes, I know for sure I was beaten up because of racism. I didn&#39;t even know the people, but I do recall them call me honky, and cracker. Anyway, that is beside the point. My point was that white people suffer from discrimination also, as a backlash to the racist system. And I also stated that a white person will not experience that racism as often as that of someone that is a minority.

[spartan]

Just because whites benefit from the current system, though not all whites benefit as there are many poor and homeless white people, does not make all whites racist just the current system that we live in is racist and we on the left have known that for centuries&#33;

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by lvleph+November 02, 2007 12:58 am--> (lvleph @ November 02, 2007 12:58 am)
Mujer [email protected] 02, 2007 12:50 am
Fine, but you&#39;re missing the point- one tat has been reiterated many times in this thread.

That the system as a whole benefits white people, never mind one or two incidents in your life that make you feel otherwise.

You will never be denied housing or work because of your race.

You will never have people ask if you speak English, or "where you&#39;re from" (something I experience all the time) because of your colour.

Furthermore, are you sure the attacks on you were motivated by race?
I said myself that the system is racist. And yes, I know for sure I was beaten up because of racism. I didn&#39;t even know the people, but I do recall them call me honky, and cracker. Anyway, that is beside the point. My point was that white people suffer from discrimination also, as a backlash to the racist system. And I also stated that a white person will not experience that racism as often as that of someone that is a minority. [/b]
Oh fuck off.

Reverse racism is a stupid concept - yes it&#39;s not nice that some people don&#39;t like you because of your skin colour but it&#39;s fuck all compared to a society that makes everything difficult for you for the same reason. Being called a "honky" or a "cracker" isn&#39;t quite the same as being followed around by cops because they suspect you&#39;ll do something thanks to your skin pigmentation. Being "jumped" a few times isn&#39;t the same as being killed for coming somewhere from abroad (or having the same skin colour as someone who comes from abroad). Whites (like myself) are not profiled as the most likely suspects. Slurs directed at Whites do not have the same weight as those directed at non-whites because those used against non-whites have all the power of our society behind them.

So fuck you and your "reverse racism" shit.

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

Originally posted by Ultra&#045;[email protected] 01, 2007 04:28 pm
White People :angry: ^^^^^


You will Never know what it feels like to be fucking discrimanted your whole fucking life and you can say Well i dont see color FUCK YOU *****&#33; Im Fucking Brown and dont act like you dont see my color. You people should be at the front lines fighting racism but what Do i see just colored people really White america could give a rats ass and they talk about Equal opurtunityFUCK YOU&#33; I wish one day you were in my shoes just so you would know how it felt like to be or any another person of color.
whoaaaaaa man, calmate.

this is effectively a problem of blaming the white person instead of blaming the "white" institution. from another brown, i&#39;m assuming latino, person&#39;s perspective, i hold no grudge against white people as a whole, with the understanding that the institution of racism is perpetrated by specific white people. i have white friends that are more conscious of the problem of racism in this country than my mexican friends are. entonces que, camarada? white people are not inherently racist any more than a black or brown person would be if the tables were turned. you can&#39;t be an anarchist or a communist and have a vendetta against every white person you see, because progressive working class people are allies of the same struggle, whether you like it or not&#33; the revolution will not be black or brown or white, it will be proletarian and your prejudiced opinions will only serve to alienate you from the movement.

[AAFCE]

Oh gawd. "Cracker" no matter what you say, is a racial slur.

[lvleph]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+November 02, 2007 01:04 am--> (Jazzratt @ November 02, 2007 01:04 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 12:58 am

Mujer [email protected] 02, 2007 12:50 am
Fine, but you&#39;re missing the point- one tat has been reiterated many times in this thread.

That the system as a whole benefits white people, never mind one or two incidents in your life that make you feel otherwise.

You will never be denied housing or work because of your race.

You will never have people ask if you speak English, or "where you&#39;re from" (something I experience all the time) because of your colour.

Furthermore, are you sure the attacks on you were motivated by race?
I said myself that the system is racist. And yes, I know for sure I was beaten up because of racism. I didn&#39;t even know the people, but I do recall them call me honky, and cracker. Anyway, that is beside the point. My point was that white people suffer from discrimination also, as a backlash to the racist system. And I also stated that a white person will not experience that racism as often as that of someone that is a minority.
Oh fuck off.

Reverse racism is a stupid concept - yes it&#39;s not nice that some people don&#39;t like you because of your skin colour but it&#39;s fuck all compared to a society that makes everything difficult for you for the same reason. Being called a "honky" or a "cracker" isn&#39;t quite the same as being followed around by cops because they suspect you&#39;ll do something thanks to your skin pigmentation. Being "jumped" a few times isn&#39;t the same as being killed for coming somewhere from abroad (or having the same skin colour as someone who comes from abroad). Whites (like myself) are not profiled as the most likely suspects. Slurs directed at Whites do not have the same weight as those directed at non-whites because those used against non-whites have all the power of our society behind them.

So fuck you and your "reverse racism" shit. [/b]
Man I get harassed by cops and followed by cops. However, that is due to my chosen appearance. Cops are assholes and are there to oppress anyone different.

Anyway, you need to get your head out of your ass and start paying attention to what I was saying. I most certainly did not say that the racism experience by whites was even close to that experienced by any minority. In fact, I came out and said the opposite. READ&#33; Next, reverse racism is a stupid term in general. Racism is not attributed to just white people and so the term reverse racism doesn&#39;t even make sense. I don&#39;t know how I can make this any clearer. Everyone experiences racism in one way or another. However, whites have dealt out the racism more than others on many occasions, and the racist system in countries like the USA is a serious problem. One, that actually results in racism from both sides, but skewed towards minorities, and so they experience the brunt of it. Now if you don&#39;t understand what I just said, you really need to just fuck off.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Kun Fanâ@October 31, 2007 09:05 pm
The point is that in this society white people are in most positions of power - they control the economy, the government, and the schools. The thing is that most whites believe that they are not racist because they do not actively hate minorities.
I have a massive problem with that sort of rethoric. When you say "[white people] control the economy" you imply that they are a single unified part of society with the same economic standing, who all control society in their own interests. Ignoring that many white people aren&#39;t actually that well off at all. And some people of ethnic backgrounds, are doing just fine.

And actually, if you read the list of the worlds wealthiest people, many of them are actually Jewish, not white. Bill gates, Ingvar Kamprad, Warren Buffet, Rupert Murdoch, Bernard Arnault, heldon Adelsonare all in the top wealthiest people, and are all Jewish.

...But so what? You wouldn&#39;t get away with saying "Jews control the economy" because it implies a lot more than is factually true. Because it abandons the issue of class. Or interpertes "class" as "race".

I also know lots of Jews who are worse off than me. Claiming that entire Races hold privelidged positions in society is far too simplistic. And leads to racial tensions that can then be exploited by the ruling class.

I&#39;m not denying that White people are on the whole, better off, and that there is a racist bias against non-whites. But we need to look at this reality from a class-perspective.

[Cmde. Slavyanski]

Before everyone continues throwing fits here, there was the suspicion that this story came from a conservative source. This means, as one poster said, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. For years now, particularly on the internet, via chain e-mails, blogs, but in recent years even on cable news- conservatives have been bombarding middle class white America with horror stories of the great "liberal" offensive on America, the War on Christmas, etc. This is the kind of stuff you need to run by sites like Snopes.com or Mediamatters.org. Today it&#39;s this, a few years ago it was "All students in California Public School required to recite Islamic prayers," and so on.

Granted, if this is real, the people that were behind it are idiots. They have willingly given ammunition to the right wing army of pundits.

PS- Jews are "white."

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2007 03:00 am
Oh gawd. "Cracker" no matter what you say, is a racial slur.
Well done. Not all racial slurs hold equal weight.

Ivleph


Man I get harassed by cops and followed by cops. However, that is due to my chosen appearance. Cops are assholes and are there to oppress anyone different.

Yeah, but if you don&#39;t want the cops following you you can just get a change of clothes. Choosing to be a target of profiling and being one simply because of something you can&#39;t help are entirely different.


Anyway, you need to get your head out of your ass and start paying attention to what I was saying. I most certainly did not say that the racism experience by whites was even close to that experienced by any minority. In fact, I came out and said the opposite.

You were whining about how black people had been nasty to you, which is essentially what people mean when they use stupid fucking terms like "reverse racism". You were talking about a few incidents of abuse/violence as an example of racism. That isn&#39;t a very serious form of racism though. Having the whole system stacked against you from day one is serious racism.


Next, reverse racism is a stupid term in general. Racism is not attributed to just white people and so the term reverse racism doesn&#39;t even make sense.

Right.


I don&#39;t know how I can make this any clearer. Everyone experiences racism in one way or another.

Yep. Most whites experience it by benefiting from a racist system.


However, whites have dealt out the racism more than others on many occasions, and the racist system in countries like the USA is a serious problem. One, that actually results in racism from both sides, but skewed towards minorities, and so they experience the brunt of it. Now if you don&#39;t understand what I just said, you really need to just fuck off.

Look, fuckwit. You don&#39;t need to tell me that whites dish out the racism in America. But to mention the trivial and weak "racism" non-whites are "guilty" of as if it were as important (and I know you said "...they [non-whites] face the brunt of it." but you&#39;re still implying that the two forms of racism are equal.

Racism doesn&#39;t mean shit until you&#39;ve got society on your side.

[lvleph]

Originally posted by Cmde. [email protected] 02, 2007 03:01 pm
Before everyone continues throwing fits here, there was the suspicion that this story came from a conservative source. This means, as one poster said, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. For years now, particularly on the internet, via chain e-mails, blogs, but in recent years even on cable news- conservatives have been bombarding middle class white America with horror stories of the great "liberal" offensive on America, the War on Christmas, etc. This is the kind of stuff you need to run by sites like Snopes.com or Mediamatters.org. Today it&#39;s this, a few years ago it was "All students in California Public School required to recite Islamic prayers," and so on.

Granted, if this is real, the people that were behind it are idiots. They have willingly given ammunition to the right wing army of pundits.

PS- Jews are "white."
There are many many people that don&#39;t consider Jews to be white. But, opinions change. At one time, the Irish were not considered white either. Italians, by many, are still not considered white.

Anyway, I think it is completely possible that the story has blown the actual situation out of proportion, and in fact may barely have any thread of truth left in it.

[spartan]

PS- Jews are "white."
:huh:

Jews are originally a non Indo-European people from the middle east who, during the Roman Empire, settled in Europe and North Africa.

Though they have "white" skin, from living in a cold enviroment like Europe for centuries, the Jews originally would have had olive coloured skin, like many Jews who stayed in the middle east and North Africa have, which is also what most Jews who now live in Israel, where most Jews originally came from, now have as well.

Skin colour is determined by the enviroment that you live in so for example if you are from a cold enviroment, like Europe, North America and Northern Asia, your skin colour will be lighter whilst if you live in a warm enviroment, like Africa, South America and South Asia, your skin colour will be darker due to the tanning of the skin from constant contact with the sun which is what makes these specific parts of the world warm.

That is why alot of second generation black people in Europe have very light coloured skin because they live in a cold enviroment.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Cmde. [email protected] 02, 2007 03:01 pm
PS- Jews are "white."
hahahahahaha

Comrade, a brief flick through European history says otherwise.

Semites and Caucasians are not the same...

But I suppose it depends what definition of race you use. I would say that race a social construct, with no scientific value, but even by this measure, as a social construct, Jews are definetly not white.

I could also accept that "race" exists as far as there are some different physical characteristics within humanity. Jews, are &#39;semites&#39;, who lived in northern africa and the eastern mediteranian. "Whites" come from the caucais mountains (hence caucasian). There are different physical characteristics, besdies just skin colour.

[Cmde. Slavyanski]

Oh yes there are those who insist that Jews aren&#39;t white. They are called "racialists" and neo-Nazis. The other side is some Jewish fanatics out there. The fact is that Jews have always genetically assimilated into their "host" populations, and it is because of this that anti-Semitism works as a political tool throughout history. You can point out some "white guy" and say- HE&#39;S A JEW.

First off: Yes, orginally Jews were Semites, but Semites were Caucasoid- Semitic is a linguistic term, as is Indo-European. Some Jews are the descendents of Central Asian Turkic populations that converted to Judaism; but again, Turkic is a linguistic term and Turks(I&#39;m not limiting the term to Anatolia) may look like anything from East Asian to Northern European(same with Jews incidentily). The idea that Jews constitute some kind of "race" apart from Europeans is simply ludicrous.

A test of this is rather easy- merely find a Jew who does not fit certain "stereotypical" aspects, and see how he is accepted as white. You don&#39;t need to limit it to Jews either, you could do the same with Tatars and other Turkic peoples as well. I once dated a Tatar girl who had blonde hair and blue eyes- despite the fact that today, Tatars are still seen even in Russia as being Asiatic, and they are not "Indo-European" by definition.

When one points out someone like Rupert Murdoch, who are we to say that he indentifies more with this monolithic collective of "Jews" than his class, and other white people? In fact IIRC Murdoch was not aware of his Jewish lineage until a few years ago.

PS- Yiddish incidentily, is considered an Indo-European language.

[spartan]

First off: Yes, orginally Jews were Semites, but Semites were Caucasoid
Semites were not originally Caucasoid.

They may have Caucasoid elements nowadays, because of Interracial marriage, but the Jews were originally just your average middle eastern Semtic people like the Arabs.

Are the Arabs Caucasoid as well just because they are Semites? (Who according to you are Caucasoid).

PS- Yiddish incidentily, is considered an Indo-European language.
That is because Yiddish is hugely influenced from where it originally developed which was in the Indo-European regions of Germany and Eastern Europe where there was a sizeable Jewish population.

So Yiddish is obviously classed as an Indo-European language as it developed and was influenced in an Indo-European country which spoke an Indo-European language by a mainly Indo-European people.

Race is un-important.

But when you start giving us untrue claims about the origins of an entire people with no evidence to back up your claims, we cant just let it go unnoticed.

[lvleph]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+November 02, 2007 03:09 pm--> (Jazzratt &#064; November 02, 2007 03:09 pm)
[email protected] 02, 2007 03:00 am
Oh gawd. "Cracker" no matter what you say, is a racial slur.
Well done. Not all racial slurs hold equal weight.

Ivleph


Man I get harassed by cops and followed by cops. However, that is due to my chosen appearance. Cops are assholes and are there to oppress anyone different.

Yeah, but if you don&#39;t want the cops following you you can just get a change of clothes. Choosing to be a target of profiling and being one simply because of something you can&#39;t help are entirely different.


Anyway, you need to get your head out of your ass and start paying attention to what I was saying. I most certainly did not say that the racism experience by whites was even close to that experienced by any minority. In fact, I came out and said the opposite.

You were whining about how black people had been nasty to you, which is essentially what people mean when they use stupid fucking terms like "reverse racism". You were talking about a few incidents of abuse/violence as an example of racism. That isn&#39;t a very serious form of racism though. Having the whole system stacked against you from day one is serious racism.


Next, reverse racism is a stupid term in general. Racism is not attributed to just white people and so the term reverse racism doesn&#39;t even make sense.

Right.


I don&#39;t know how I can make this any clearer. Everyone experiences racism in one way or another.

Yep. Most whites experience it by benefiting from a racist system.


However, whites have dealt out the racism more than others on many occasions, and the racist system in countries like the USA is a serious problem. One, that actually results in racism from both sides, but skewed towards minorities, and so they experience the brunt of it. Now if you don&#39;t understand what I just said, you really need to just fuck off.

Look, fuckwit. You don&#39;t need to tell me that whites dish out the racism in America. But to mention the trivial and weak "racism" non-whites are "guilty" of as if it were as important (and I know you said "...they [non-whites] face the brunt of it." but you&#39;re still implying that the two forms of racism are equal.

Racism doesn&#39;t mean shit until you&#39;ve got society on your side. [/b]
Racism is serious no matter what form&#33;

BTW, I only gave one example, because I would have to write a damn book about how many times I have experienced one form of racism or another. But like I have said, I am sure my experiences with racism are no where near as bad as someone that is a minority living in a racist system.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Cmde. [email protected] 02, 2007 03:23 pm
Oh yes there are those who insist that Jews aren&#39;t white. They are called "racialists" and neo-Nazis. The other side is some Jewish fanatics out there.
"Racialist; Someone who places an emphasis on race or racial considerations, as in determining policy or interpreting events "

I&#39;ve already said it&#39;s scientifically meaningless. So I&#39;m not a racialist, I actually only mentioned Jews to highlight the very fact that class is the only relevent issue and that using racial rethoric is over simplifiying things.

All this said. Jews are by no measure white. In the same way it would be rediculous to call afro-caribeans white, or Asians white. It&#39;s not "racialist" it&#39;s true. You could get a white person who converts to Judaism, but we&#39;re not talking about Jews as followers of a faith, but as a "racial group" who have typical physcial characteristics that I&#39;m sure we&#39;re all aweare of. It&#39;s just perhaps not as obvious as black skin.


Jews have always genetically assimilated into their "host" populations

What the fuck?


A test of this is rather easy- merely find a Jew who does not fit certain "stereotypical" aspects, and see how he is accepted as white.

So some people can&#39;t identify Jewish charicteristics? Not forgeting that as some points in history, Jewish people have had children with white people and so the Jewish physical charicteristics are less. I mean, so what? I have a good friend whos grandad was Indian, but you would never be able to tell looking at him. It doesn&#39;t change the fact that Indians have different phsycial traits to caucasians.

The point is that these physcial differences don&#39;t account for anything. They&#39;re as meaningful as differences in hair or eye colour.


When one points out someone like Rupert Murdoch, who are we to say that he indentifies more with this monolithic collective of "Jews" than his class, and other white people? In fact IIRC Murdoch was not aware of his Jewish lineage until a few years ago.

Yes, exaclty, comrade. That&#39;s the point I was trying to make. Re read my original post.

[Forward Union]

I have a police report that proves I am a race victim so there :P

For some reason when I got attacked by a nazi they considered it racially motivated. Not entirely wrong I suppose..

[RGacky3]

My father is a well to do Mexican, used to get discriminated against, back in the day in east LA, when he was just another lower class Mexican, getting guns pulled on him thrown against the floor, because of suspiscion (Cops thought he was a criminal), but it does&#39;nt happen anymore.

I know a lot of well to do Black people who never really face discrimination as well.

HOWEVER, because of the United States history, percentage wise, more blacks and Mexicans and other minorities are in poverty, whereas whites generally have more money. (even though numerically there are moer white poor than blacks and/or Mexicans). That being said, I&#39;d have to say that class is a much better explination of discirmination than color, and THAT being said, historically many times your color determined your class.

[spartan]

For some reason when I got attacked by a nazi they considered it racially motivated. Not entirely wrong I suppose..
We are our own race: The Red race (Or Redskins).

We are usually discriminated against by a minority of whites, called white supremacists, who believe that white people are superior to all other people who are&#39;nt white.

This of course makes us reds a target for these specific whites :lol:

[Cmde. Slavyanski]

The idea that Jews as a group have easily identifiable physical characteristics(comprable to say, black and white), is disproven by any observation. Jews may look anything from Nordic to black African or Asian.

[spartan]

Most of the time race is&#39;nt the only reason why a cop will stop you and search you.

It is a big reason dont get me wrong but i think that the way you look also plays apart as well as a copper probably would not stop say a black person who was dressed smartly in an expensive suit and looked rich and who was walking in a "nice" part of town.

So alot of it is class based i feel.

[spartan]

The idea that Jews as a group have easily identifiable physical characteristics(comprable to say, black and white), is disproven by any observation. Jews may look anything from Nordic to black African or Asian.
Yes but the mear fact that we are talking about them as "Jews" means that we have sub consciously regarded them as a seperate and unique grouping of people in their own right.

There is nothing wrong with recognising that some people look differnet from other people that you are accustomed to seeing all the time.

It is when you dont like those people who look differently that the problem begins as this is racism.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Cmde. [email protected] 02, 2007 03:58 pm
The idea that Jews as a group have easily identifiable physical characteristics(comprable to say, black and white), is disproven by any observation. Jews may look anything from Nordic to black African or Asian.
But you stil lrecognise they exist, so let me ask you, what defines a jew?

[lvleph]

So what does it say about the system and my upbringing when I forget that I am not actually white? My Grandmother is from Panama, so I am not actually white, but am a mix. Although, if you saw me you would think automatically that I am white. In fact, my dad makes fun of me sometimes for being too pale.

[RedAnarchist]

There are no characteristics that you cna use to identify someone as being of a certain race (even skin colour). There is more difference within "races" than there are between two different "races".

[TC]

Originally posted by William Everard+November 02, 2007 12:48 pm--> (William Everard &#064; November 02, 2007 12:48 pm) And actually, if you read the list of the worlds wealthiest people, many of them are actually Jewish, not white. Bill gates, Ingvar Kamprad, Warren Buffet, Rupert Murdoch, Bernard Arnault, heldon Adelsonare all in the top wealthiest people, and are all Jewish.

...But so what? You wouldn&#39;t get away with saying "Jews control the economy" because it implies a lot more than is factually true. Because it abandons the issue of class. Or interpertes "class" as "race".

I also know lots of Jews who are worse off than me. [/b]
LOL those are all white Jewish people. White, Ashkenazi Jews are as much a European minority ethnicity of power as WASPs/Yankees.

The only people who think that Jews aren&#39;t white by virtue of being Jewish (as opposed to, by virtue of being Asiatic or Sephardic or otherwise non-European Jews) are Nazis and Zionists.


Originally posted by [email protected]
Claiming that entire Races hold privelidged positions in society is far too simplistic. And leads to racial tensions that can then be exploited by the ruling class.

I&#39;m not denying that White people are on the whole, better off, and that there is a racist bias against non-whites. But we need to look at this reality from a class-perspective.

All whites are not privileged compared to all blacks, but white people both tend to have much higher class status on average, and they tend to be much more privileged than black people of equal class standing except at the very top (where black people are extraordinarily rare) and very bottom of the social hierarchy.

The fact is that class and race are not independent because race correllates very strongly with class, to the point where people make assumptions about people&#39;s relative class status simply by their race even when those assumptions are in fact unfounded.


William

But you stil lrecognise they exist, so let me ask you, what defines a jew?

For people who aren&#39;t Zionists/Racists, its either religion (following Judaism) or inherited cultural identity, typically including being from one of several unrelated European, Asian or African ethic groups, or both. In this sense its like being Huguenot or a Catholic or Muslim in the cultural sense (people will often identify themselves as Catholics or Muslims despite not practicing either religion due to their family&#39;s background, the same is clearly true of being Jewish but not believing in Judaism, but not the case for evangelical Christians and particular protestant sects which almost necessarily refer to active adherents because they were never culturally dominate to the extent that even atheists from their communities would still be identified with them).

For people who are Zionists or practitioners of racist forms of Judaism, its having a Jewish mother.

For people who are racists but not practitioners of Judaism, it is as you seem to think, genetic.




All this said. Jews are by no measure white. In the same way it would be rediculous to call afro-caribeans white, or Asians white. It&#39;s not "racialist" it&#39;s true. You could get a white person who converts to Judaism, but we&#39;re not talking about Jews as followers of a faith, but as a "racial group" who have typical physcial characteristics that I&#39;m sure we&#39;re all aweare of. It&#39;s just perhaps not as obvious as black skin.

So some people can&#39;t identify Jewish charicteristics? Not forgeting that as some points in history, Jewish people have had children with white people and so the Jewish physical charicteristics are less. I mean, so what?

LOL You really sound like a closet anti-semite.

Western Europeans and Americans identify a type of south-eastern European, or mixed European and Arabic, look as a "Jewish" look, simply because a disproportionate number of people with that type of background who also live in Western Europe or America are also Jewish. That doesn&#39;t make them "jewish physical characteristics". Jean Reno and Mahmound Abbas look about as stereotypically "jewish" as you can get but they&#39;re not, whereas if you put a yamika on virtually any white male person&#39;s head, you&#39;d probably think they "looked Jewish."

Seriously, if you saw George Bush or John Kerry or Tony Blair or Gordon Brown or Gehard Schroder or Vladimir Putin in a yamika, would you doubt that they were Jewish? I think not. In fact, on looks alone, would you think twice if any of them claimed to be Jewish? Probably not.

[synthesis]

"White privilege" is not based strictly on income gaps. It is about opportunity. If a poor white person, Jewish or not, were to make billions from a lucky business venture, it will be far easier for him or her to assimilate into the ruling class than a poor black person.

Just because Marx believed we have to interpret the entire world in terms of class does not mean that such a view would not regularly lead to simplistic conclusions, just like any purely racial analysis. As long as the world is controlled by people of European descent then many people that are not of European descent will see the world in terms of race.

Therefore, the situation has led me to believe that for any sort of progress to be made in human society, one necessary condition is the full assimilation of non-Europeans into the worldwide ruling class. If we respond negatively to this, it is a sure bet that Communists will be perceived as more white people trying to keep non-whites "in their place".



The only people who think that Jews aren&#39;t white by virtue of being Jewish (as opposed to, by virtue of being Asiatic or Sephardic or otherwise non-European Jews) are Nazis and Zionists.

100%. Also, Rupert Murdoch is not Jewish as far as I know. The only sources I&#39;ve found which claim that he is Jewish are unabashedly ultra-reactionary.

Although I cannot slight Mr. Everard&#39;s open-mindedness with regards to that which is being propagated on Stormfront, he must remember that as racists they are dogmatically ignorant of many things and therefore their information should be presumed guilty until proven innocent.

[TC]

Originally posted by Kun Fanâ@November 02, 2007 09:26 pm
"White privilege" is not based strictly on income gaps. It is about opportunity. If a poor white person, Jewish or not, were to make billions from a lucky business venture, it will be far easier for him or her to assimilate into the ruling class than a poor black person.

:rolleyes: what a weird capitalist fairy tale. Poor people regardless of race dont&#39; have "business ventures", middle class people don&#39;t even have "business ventures", only the bourgeois proper and a small portion of the top rung of the upper-middle class have anything resembling a "business venture."

[synthesis]

So, what of "new money"? "Parvenus"? The "nouveau riche"? I think you may be the one living in a fairy tale.

The fact that it happens rarely does not mean that it does not happen, and the comparatively low number of people who have assimilated into the ruling class speaks more about the fact that a ruling class is a minority by its nature.


Poor people regardless of race dont&#39; have "business ventures"

I would have to disagree with you based on almost everything I have seen in my life. Most poor people I&#39;ve ever known without jobs (and many with jobs) have had some idea of a "business venture" in mind. Although the "rags-to-riches" stories overwhelm the much larger number of "rags-to-rags-thinking-of-riches" it still serves to create that possibility in people&#39;s minds.

I think what we are forgetting is that as capitalism progresses, it naturally starts to abandon its focus on raw labor in and of itself. The central prerogative of the most "modern" capitalist nations is not to create proletarians, but consumers - that&#39;s what modern capitalism needs to survive. Goods will not be bought if no one can afford them due to the nature of the system - and if the system does not work then it will be replaced.

I am staunchly against capitalism, and realizes that it mandates the institution of wage slavery by its very nature, but I don&#39;t think we give it enough credit as an "efficient" system, particularly for the time and place it was created. There are reasons why it has survived for so long, whether or not they are legitimate.

And if dogma does not apply to real life, then the dogma must be changed. I realize Leninists are insistent on the validity of their doctrine for all situations regardless of material conditions, but for progress to happen, we must start with an unbiased analysis of the situation.

(This post might be off-topic and deserving of a new thread, but I had to say that.)

[Forward Union]

I was speaking to a jew about this today actually. And her answer was basically that in Hebrew, there are different words for different types of jews (black jews, white jews, mediterrenian jews) but they are still ultimately, jews.

I forget the proper words.

[synthesis]

Yeah, but if a white Jew wants to just be white, there&#39;s nothing stopping them except their last name. Even if a white Jew has the stereotypical Jewish characteristics, they can claim Mediterranean ancestry and effectively be white.

[TC]

Originally posted by William [email protected] 03, 2007 09:51 pm
I was speaking to a jew about this today actually. And her answer was basically that in Hebrew, there are different words for different types of jews (black jews, white jews, mediterrenian jews) but they are still ultimately, jews.

I forget the proper words.
we&#39;ve now moved from a discussion of "jewish looks" to the specific classification of jewish sub-racial-types...wonderful.

don&#39;t hang out at stormfront it seems to be subtly influencing your thinking.

Judaism is a religion, Jews are people with Judaism dominated families regardless of whether or not they are themselves followers of Judaism. Thats *all*. Unless you&#39;re a Zionist or a Nazi.

[Cmde. Slavyanski]

Originally posted by William [email protected] 03, 2007 09:51 pm
I was speaking to a jew about this today actually. And her answer was basically that in Hebrew, there are different words for different types of jews (black jews, white jews, mediterrenian jews) but they are still ultimately, jews.

I forget the proper words.
This is the standard Neo-Nazi argument. The fact is that your claims about Jewish "characteristics" are based on stereotypes of Jews. Take a look at some photos from Israel some time and tell me they fit that stereotype. There are Jews out there who look more "white" than me(in the sense that they may have blonde or red hair, and eye-color other than brown).

[hajduk]

once i made question about racism
what if some humans by some nature effects or something else get orange colour of skin or green colour,are we have then racism and are we should keep rights of those who got orange or green colour of skin?

[Sky]

The point is that in this society white people are in most positions of power - they control the economy, the government, and the schools.

Although it is true that whites hold the most power in those areas, by no means does this mean that the vast majority of whites are in positions of such power. In West Virginia, the material position of the exclusively white population is analagous to blacks living in the city limits of Detroit.

It is not helpful to exaggerate the extent to which whites exercise power in the economy. I live in Los Angeles where eastern Asian immigrants hold a degree of economic influence comparable to whites. Justifiably, parts of the African-American and Mexican communities in Los Angeles resent the priveleged economic position of eastern Asian immigrants. Indeed, Asians in Los Angeles County have a higher median income ($69,000) than whites($68,000), Blacks ($50,000), and Mexicans ($40,000). My point is that the economic situation is a lot more complex than the idea that whites control everything.



Jews are by no measure white.

It's all a matter of perspective. The song "No Vaseline" by Ice Cube identifies Jews as white. While some whites may not consider Jews to be white, the opposite position would be held by African-Americans.



Reverse racism is a stupid concept

The concept of "reverse racism" is part of an attempt by reactionary whites to liken the political struggle of African-Americans to the very people that they have been oppressed by. As has been proven by Lenin, the nationalism of the oppressed is not comparable to the nationalism of the oppressors.

[RGacky3]

It is not helpful to exaggerate the extent to which whites exercise power in the economy. I live in Los Angeles where eastern Asian immigrants hold a degree of economic influence comparable to whites. Justifiably, parts of the African-American and Mexican communities in Los Angeles resent the priveleged economic position of eastern Asian immigrants. Indeed, Asians in Los Angeles County have a higher median income ($69,000) than whites($68,000), Blacks ($50,000), and Mexicans ($40,000). My point is that the economic situation is a lot more complex than the idea that whites control everything.

Smartest thing I've seen you say. Could'nt have said it better.

[Ultra-Violence]

^^^
ITS JUST NOT AN ECONOMIC THING! Its a fucking everything 2 million people on prison more than half of them people of color dont you see anyhting wrong with that! u get more time for crack than for cocaine! the police arent in your fucking nieghbor hoods their not busting raids in your nieghbor hoods! White kids go to better skools get better everythin its just not economic and with the asians yes the have a higher income but they have to work TWICE AS HARD! then white people This counrty was founded by white people for white people and Blacks Natives and all other Peoples are to Be the Burden bearers for the REAL! Citizens of this country Peroid.

[Peacekeeper]

Wow that's pretty fucked up.

[Ultra-Violence]

thats not even half of it and i aint making shit up either (not saying u said im making shit up)

All white people are racsit because

1.THE DIRECTLY BENIFIT FROM RACISM! (knowingly or unknowingly)
2.THEY CHOSE TO ACTIVELY DO NOTHING ABOUT IT

and i dont want yall thinking i hate white people guts cuase i dont you guys just get me angry at the crap some of you people say. honestly and i want to see more white people at anti-racist demos we need you fucking support! colored people have been making a rucus for fucking 500 yrs + it ends when you gusy want it to end PEROID.

[Lector Malibu]

All white people are racsit because


This has to be one of the most ignorant statements I've heard recently.

The word is also racist

[Dean]

thats not even half of it and i aint making shit up either (not saying u said im making shit up)

All white people are racsit because

1.THE DIRECTLY BENIFIT FROM RACISM! (knowingly or unknowingly)
2.THEY CHOSE TO ACTIVELY DO NOTHING ABOUT IT

and i dont want yall thinking i hate white people guts cuase i dont you guys just get me angry at the crap some of you people say. honestly and i want to see more white people at anti-racist demos we need you fucking support! colored people have been making a rucus for fucking 500 yrs + it ends when you gusy want it to end PEROID.

Sorry, I'm white and I don't think I'm racist. I think the concept of "whiteness" being racist has some real truth to it, but to say that all whites are racist because they benefit from it and do nothign about it is simply untrue. There could be a case made that whites who see racism benefit them and do nothing about it are racist, but it is completely ignorant to assume that all whites are specificalyl aware of racism helping them, or that their inaction is out of racist views rather than fear.

[Kami]

thats not even half of it and i aint making shit up either (not saying u said im making shit up)

All white people are racsit because

1.THE DIRECTLY BENIFIT FROM RACISM! (knowingly or unknowingly)
2.THEY CHOSE TO ACTIVELY DO NOTHING ABOUT IT

and i dont want yall thinking i hate white people guts cuase i dont you guys just get me angry at the crap some of you people say. honestly and i want to see more white people at anti-racist demos we need you fucking support! colored people have been making a rucus for fucking 500 yrs + it ends when you gusy want it to end PEROID.
Neither benefiting from racism or standing by and letting racism happen (though I imagine most here don't do that) makes you racist. You fail.
Oh, and you can stick your generalisations where the sun doesn't shine.

[Ultra-Violence]

ok sure but you are all benifiting from it try to deny it any you u want for example me and you stole a car id get a higher sentence then you would any day (not including outside factors)

and i can shove up ur fucking ass cuase its the truth its fucking reality you all benifit from it dont give a fuck what any of you say YOU ALL BENIFIT! BENIFIT FROM IT! PEROID! im sorry if it hurts your feelings but its the truth (In America that is) dont care what any of you say

[Kami]

Never denied that. Still aren't racist from it though.

[Ultra-Violence]

well sure thier im not saying every white person is a fucking nazi saying seig heil every where. But they chose to do nothin about it why? why cuasent its doesnt apply to them and they could give a rats ass thats why! (not talkig about you anti fasher over here i love you guys)

[RNK]

I agree with Ultra-Violence.

But I hope he also realizes he benefits from it too. Infact, all whites, blacks, hispanics, and everyone else living in America benefits from the international racism of colonialism and post-colonialism and the economic rape of South America, Africa, the Middle East, and Asia.

So you benefit from it too, Ultra-Violence. It's safe to say that everyone on this board does, as last time I checked there weren't any home computers in Darfur.

[RGacky3]

2 million people on prison more than half of them people of color dont you see anyhting wrong with that! u get more time for crack than for cocaine!

I see something really wrong with that. the Crack/Cocaine thing is definately hypocritical.


the police arent in your fucking nieghbor hoods their not busting raids in your nieghbor hoods! White kids go to better skools get better everythin its just not economic and with the asians yes the have a higher income but they have to work TWICE AS HARD! then white people This counrty was founded by white people for white people and Blacks Natives and all other Peoples are to Be the Burden bearers for the REAL! Citizens of this country Peroid.

First of all, you don't know where I or anyone else on this board lives. White kids go to better schools? NO, Rich kids go to better schools. (There are numerically a lot more poor white people than black people in the United States). Also police in general bust raids in places prone to crime (at least more visibal violent crime), which are poor areas, many of which are black, many of which are hispanic, many of which are white.

Also what you said about Asians, how do you know they ahve to work twice as hard? Say there is a white and an Asian born into families of the same income level, are you seriously suggesting the Asian has to work twice as hard to be successfull? Its class, not race.


All white people are racsit because

1.THE DIRECTLY BENIFIT FROM RACISM! (knowingly or unknowingly)
2.THEY CHOSE TO ACTIVELY DO NOTHING ABOUT IT

No they are not, thats the same crap logic used by some jackasses on this board to say all american voters are responsible for mass murder. Its Bull.

First of all, if white people do benefit from racism, why should they do something about it? (I'm not saying they should'nt), if they don't they are just enjoying privilege, it does'nt mean they are racist, they did'nt put the system in place, they are just enjoying it.

The fact is racism is'nt as much a factor as it was a 100 years ago, in fact its not much of a major factor.

It was a factor in the past, and that past effects the present, in the sense that proportionarely there are more poor blacks than whites. But there are many rich blacks, who are treated just as well as rich whites, why? Because they ahve money, thats what its about.


honestly and i want to see more white people at anti-racist demos we need you fucking support! colored people have been making a rucus for fucking 500 yrs + it ends when you gusy want it to end PEROID.

You think your going to get white people to anti-racist demos with slogans like "All white people are racist."? Yeah, sounds like a great way to go about that.

colored people and white people (Which should say something because fighting against racism does'nt benefit them)< ahve been making a rucus for many many years. Excactly, specifically, what would you like to change?

BTW does the phrase "THEY CHOSE TO ACTIVELY DO NOTHING ABOUT IT" sound a little oxymoronic to anyone else but me? Imagen being actively doing nothing huh?

[Lector Malibu]

ok sure but you are all benifiting from it try to deny it any you u want for example me and you stole a car id get a higher sentence then you would any day (not including outside factors)

and i can shove up ur fucking ass cuase its the truth its fucking reality you all benifit from it dont give a fuck what any of you say YOU ALL BENIFIT! BENIFIT FROM IT! PEROID! im sorry if it hurts your feelings but its the truth (In America that is) dont care what any of you say

I'm a black person moron.

I also have no quarter for people who make flat out racist generalizations as you just did , then claim to be a victim of racism them selfs.

[Plagueround]

well sure thier im not saying every white person is a fucking nazi saying seig heil every where. But they chose to do nothin about it why? why cuasent its doesnt apply to them and they could give a rats ass thats why! (not talkig about you anti fasher over here i love you guys)

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l156/phobosblack/hindenburg04.jpg

You've just invoked a popular racist justification:
"Oh, all Mexicans are lazy, but not you, you're my friend!"...

...is no different from...

..."All white people do nothing about racism except you guys here."

[RNK]

White kids go to better schools? NO, Rich kids go to better schools.

It just so happens that most rich kids are white, on account of these little things called "slavery" and "segregation" which effectively denied blacks the right to determine their own lives for, oh, y'know, 250 years or so.


(There are numerically a lot more poor white people than black people in the United States)

Wow! Maybe that's because there are numerically a lot more white people than black people in the US!

That idiotic statement is an affront to rationality. You know damned well that blacks are disproportionately poorer than whitey.


Also what you said about Asians, how do you know they ahve to work twice as hard?

The "asian tax", duh. It falls under the category of "non-white tax". For fuck's sake take a fucking history lesson or something. Asians predominantly replaced blacks in many parts of western North America as slaves and sources of extremely cheap labour.


it does'nt mean they are racist, they did'nt put the system in place, they are just enjoying it.

So if you're walking down the street and you see a bunch of guys raping some teenager, are you going to do something about it, or unzip your pants and jack off?

The legal term is being an "accomplice" to a crime, and could easily be extended to harbouring a criminal.


The fact is racism is'nt as much a factor as it was a 100 years ago, in fact its not much of a major factor.

The only thing worse than those pointy-hatted White Knights are fucking ignorant liberals like you who for one reason or another are either unwilling or unable to recognize what's going on around you.


Also police in general bust raids in places prone to crime

And they in general gun down blacks at the drop of a hat while showing much more restraint to white criminals. Black criminals on average receive much harsher, longer sentences than white criminals, for the same crimes. To top that off, most black youth today have living parents or grandparents who still remember the "No Colored People Allowed" signs in all the restaurant windows, who remember being forced to move to the back of the bus, who remember having to go to low-grade black schools (which, despite the abolition of segregation, are still predominantly inhabited by blacks and hispanics, and which are still low-grade). And then they have to deal with you ignorant white liberal fucks who can't even see the shit they have to go through to get 1/10th of what you get handed to you on a silver platter at birth. So fuck off.

[RGacky3]

Wow! Maybe that's because there are numerically a lot more white people than black people in the US!

That idiotic statement is an affront to rationality. You know damned well that blacks are disproportionately poorer

Yeah I know, my point was is that poor people suffer no matter what their race, blacks are disproportionarely poorer because of what you said, slavery and discrimination. BUT, saying that white people have it hunky Dory because they are white is rediculous. Most white people suffer just as much as Black people, because they are poor.


The only thing worse than those pointy-hatted White Knights are fucking ignorant liberals like you who for one reason or another are either unwilling or unable to recognize what's going on around you.

Those Pointy hatted White Knights, those skinheads, have about as much power and influence as my turds. I recognise whats going on around me, I just realize that the source of it is ultimately not racism, but Capitalism.


The "asian tax", duh. It falls under the category of "non-white tax". For fuck's sake take a fucking history lesson or something. Asians predominantly replaced blacks in many parts of western North America as slaves and sources of extremely cheap labour.


Yeah, but generally speaking those arn't the ones that make it to the top, not all Asians grew up in those conditions, and a lot of whites did.


So if you're walking down the street and you see a bunch of guys raping some teenager, are you going to do something about it, or unzip your pants and jack off?

The legal term is being an "accomplice" to a crime, and could easily be extended to harbouring a criminal.

BIG, BIG difference, are you saying that those not donating money to breast cancer are causing breast cancer?


And then they have to deal with you ignorant white liberal fucks who can't even see the shit they have to go through to get 1/10th of what you get handed to you on a silver platter at birth. So fuck off.

Your making big assumptions, without knowing anything.

And yeah, that goes for whites and blacks, and Hispanics that come from poor troden down backgrounds.


And they in general gun down blacks at the drop of a hat while showing much more restraint to white criminals. Black criminals on average receive much harsher, longer sentences than white criminals, for the same crimes.

Thats true, it does'nt at all explain why white people in generaly are racist.


It just so happens that most rich kids are white, on account of these little things called "slavery" and "segregation" which effectively denied blacks the right to determine their own lives for, oh, y'know, 250 years or so.

Yeah I know, but the rich black kids also get to go to those schools, poor white kids don't, its a class thing.

As I said before, I'm not saying racism has'nt effected America hugely in the past, and the effects still rub off now. But calling all white people racist, is .... racist.

[RNK]

BIG, BIG difference, are you saying that those not donating money to breast cancer are causing breast cancer?

That is a BIG BIG difference Captain Fucking J. Obvious. Breast cancer is a generically random condition brought about by thousands of unknown variables that modern science does not yet fully understand. Racism, on the other hand, is a consistent system of action and inaction which deals with the active oppression and exploitation of one man against another and which we do understand and can prevent, or at the very least actively fight.


But calling all white people racist, is .... racist.

Yeah, it is, but like I said, ignorance of racism is often times more damaging than the act of racism itself. I never said Ultra-Violence wasn't being a racist dickhead (I kind of implied that while pointing out that he too benefits from it), I said that you're being an ignorant dickhead.


I'm a black person moron.

I'm white, and I'm saying that the majority of white people are either racist or ignorant of racism. You're black, and saying that hating white people is just as bad as hating black people.. well you know what? We're at a fucking impasse. :D

[Lector Malibu]

I'm white, and I'm saying that the majority of white people are either racist or ignorant of racism. You're black, and saying that hating white people is just as bad as hating black people.. well you know what? We're at a fucking impasse. :D

RNK It's true what you have said in response to UltraViolence's post. I'm not disagreeing with your post on racism in America and in general.

I do not support UltraViolences racist assumption though that all whites are like this.

It is often the case they are not.

[RNK]

Being black yourself, can you blame him?

It's not like he's riding on a wave of 300 years of oppression and extermination against whites or embodying an actual form of repression. He's reacting naturally to what he's seen and frankly, if he went and shot RGacky to death in the middle of the night I'd fucking cheer him on all the way to the chair. The white population is sickeningly filled with ingnorant liberal fucks who think that racism no longer exists and thus imply that blacks who claim otherwise are just being irrationally *****y. Frankly I'm concerned that you think confronting Ultra's stance is more important than confronting RGacky's, particularly given your ethnic background.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

My white rabbit is racist too? :cursing:

[Lector Malibu]

Being black yourself, can you blame him?

I understand why he feels the way he does. That does not mean I condone his actions.


It's not like he's riding on a wave of 300 years of oppression and extermination against whites or embodying an actual form of repression. He's reacting naturally to what he's seen and frankly, if he went and shot RGacky to death in the middle of the night I'd fucking cheer him on all the way to the chair.That makes sense:confused:. What your really saying is he's justified to be racist back because of a history of racial oppression. Sorry, hate to break it to you he's not. I have experienced all kinds of garbage in my life concerning my race , and my sexual preference. That does not make me a person of ignorance though.


The white population is sickeningly filled with ingnorant liberal fucks who think that racism no longer exists and thus imply that blacks who claim otherwise are just being irrationally *****y. This is true but I have seen also the case of racist assumptions made without warrant or grounds. You and I are in agreement that racism is still in full throttle on many levels though.


Frankly I'm concerned that you think confronting Ultra's stance is more important than confronting RGacky's, particularly given your ethnic background.I was breaking for diner, relax . I'm not done yet.

[Lector Malibu]

As I said before, I'm not saying racism has'nt effected America hugely in the past, and the effects still rub off now. But calling all white people racist, is .... racist.

Racism is just as alive and well in America as ever. It has been cleaned up though in the image department though.

[Dean]

ok sure but you are all benifiting from it try to deny it any you u want for example me and you stole a car id get a higher sentence then you would any day (not including outside factors)

and i can shove up ur fucking ass cuase its the truth its fucking reality you all benifit from it dont give a fuck what any of you say YOU ALL BENIFIT! BENIFIT FROM IT! PEROID! im sorry if it hurts your feelings but its the truth (In America that is) dont care what any of you say

I haven't benefited from shit. I find the implication that our class system is drawn upon racial lines to be very offensive. I am part of a huge majority of white Americans: we are white trash. I'm poor as dirt, I live paycheck to paycheck, and I haven't benefited a lick from racism.

The class system hurts all people. To talk of racism as if it is some black and white thing is asinine. Just because I may get a lesser sentence than you doesn't mean I'm doing great. I don't think I'd even be able to pool the resources for bond if I was arrested. You are in no way specially oppressed. I find it wholly disgusting that the plight of a group of people is being belittled due to the color of their skin. You are the only racist I see here.

[Ultra-Violence]

But I hope he also realizes he benefits from it too. Infact, all whites, blacks, hispanics, and everyone else living in America benefits from the international racism of colonialism and post-colonialism and the economic rape of South America, Africa, the Middle East, and Asia.

So you benefit from it too, Ultra-Violence. It's safe to say that everyone on this board does, as last time I checked there weren't any home computers in Darfur.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Oh i realize i know im pretty dang lucky to be born here no doubt about it and im very aware. im also aware that im a 2nd class citizen too

You think your going to get white people to anti-racist demos with slogans like "All white people are racist."? Yeah, sounds like a great way to go about that.

colored people and white people (Which should say something because fighting against racism does'nt benefit them)< ahve been making a rucus for many many years. Excactly, specifically, what would you like to change?

BTW does the phrase "THEY CHOSE TO ACTIVELY DO NOTHING ABOUT IT" sound a little oxymoronic to anyone else but me? Imagen being actively doing nothing huh?
^^^^^^^^^^^^

Dun understand what u said their

First of all, if white people do benefit from racism, why should they do something about it? (I'm not saying they should'nt), if they don't they are just enjoying privilege, it does'nt mean they are racist, they did'nt put the system in place, they are just enjoying it.

The fact is racism is'nt as much a factor as it was a 100 years ago, in fact its not much of a major factor.

It was a factor in the past, and that past effects the present, in the sense that proportionarely there are more poor blacks than whites. But there are many rich blacks, who are treated just as well as rich whites, why? Because they ahve money, thats what its about.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Shit like this pisses me off you guys just think cuase the civil rights movement happen its all fun and games That its ok NO FUCK THAT SHIT!
how stupid are you are you even watching the Obama campiang?

First of all, you don't know where I or anyone else on this board lives. White kids go to better schools? NO, Rich kids go to better schools. (There are numerically a lot more poor white people than black people in the United States). Also police in general bust raids in places prone to crime (at least more visibal violent crime), which are poor areas, many of which are black, many of which are hispanic, many of which are white.

Also what you said about Asians, how do you know they ahve to work twice as hard? Say there is a white and an Asian born into families of the same income level, are you seriously suggesting the Asian has to work twice as hard to be successfull? Its class, not race.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

U FUCKNG MARXIST ARE FUCKING STUPID! HOW CAN YOU THROW OUT RACE! sure class is important and im not denying that but your assuming if all the blacks and browns and yellows were equal in income they theyd be treated the same AHAHa your really live in Amerikkka?

I also have no quarter for people who make flat out racist generalizations as you just did , then claim to be a victim of racism them selfs.

^^^^^^^^^^^
Dun understand

I haven't benefited from shit. I find the implication that our class system is drawn upon racial lines to be very offensive. I am part of a huge majority of white Americans: we are white trash. I'm poor as dirt, I live paycheck to paycheck, and I haven't benefited a lick from racism.

The class system hurts all people. To talk of racism as if it is some black and white thing is asinine. Just because I may get a lesser sentence than you doesn't mean I'm doing great. I don't think I'd even be able to pool the resources for bond if I was arrested. You are in no way specially oppressed. I find it wholly disgusting that the plight of a group of people is being belittled due to the color of their skin. You are the only racist I see here.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hey was up brother hey we got poor white folk in the hood too dont get that twisted

But ur driving down the road late at night u get pulled over you had a busted head light its all good the cop lets you go

i get pulled over same scenerio im asked to step out of the vehichle they searhc my car without my consent ask me if i have a warrant hand cuff me get my finger prints on the little computer shit they got fuck with me a bit come up with some bullshit charger like GTA the when they see they have notjhin on me let me go! thats my fucking reality every fcknig day of my life

and no im not being racist your all just geting butt hurt thats why ur all pissed well im sorry that the reality here in america like it or not u have specail PRIVALGES.

And thats why i stoped being a maxist your all fucking stupid you see things only down class lines when thier a whole bunch of shit going on thier colour lines too and to deny that thats fucking racist wake up people reality is hitting u straight in the face and like i said before i dont hate white folk u all just say stupid things telling me WHY MY LIFE IS THIS WAY WHEN YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA OF WAHT YOUR TALING ABOUT!

[Module]

I'm going to have to agree with Ultra-Violence.
We are all racist to a degree. It's idealistic and ignorant to suggest otherwise. We have all grown up in a society which perpetuates racialist attitudes. We are still divided by race, and groups of people, as members of 'races' are oppressed by the social attitudes which exist in our society.
As white people, as a member of a race we are barely oppressed at all. A white person may not be oppressed because of their race, but they may be oppressed because of their class, their sexuality, their gender. To say that a white person is not racially oppressed is not to say that they are not oppressed period, it is to point out that they are a part of a group of people that are in a specific way previlaged over others, such as those of ethnic minorities.
To act offended at somebody pointing this out to you, if you don't mind me saying undermines the very notion of anti-racism. It is never somebody else's fault, simply the existence of certain racial attitudes within our society which we all hold, whilst some of us choose to actively acknowledge and reject them, others do not, it's not a case of simply having them or not having them.
When one person is discriminated against in any group situation, that means the benefit of somebody who is not, period. In that way, all people who are not racially oppressed benefit from racial oppression.
Likewise, those who aren't oppressed due to their sexuality, their gender, anything will benefit from the oppression of those along those lines.

[Lector Malibu]

I'm going to have to agree with Ultra-Violence.
We are all racist to a degree. It's idealistic and ignorant to suggest otherwise. We have all grown up in a society which perpetuates racialist attitudes. We are still divided by race, and groups of people, as members of 'races' are oppressed by the social attitudes which exist in our society.
As white people, as a member of a race we are barely oppressed at all. A white person may not be oppressed because of their race, but they may be oppressed because of their class, their sexuality, their gender. To say that a white person is not racially oppressed is not to say that they are not oppressed period, it is to point out that they are a part of a group of people that are in a specific way previlaged over others, such as those of ethnic minorities.
To act offended at somebody pointing this out to you, if you don't mind me saying undermines the very notion of anti-racism. It is never somebody else's fault, simply the existence of certain racial attitudes within our society which we all hold, whilst some of us choose to actively acknowledge and reject them, others do not, it's not a case of simply having them or not having them.
When one person is discriminated against in any group situation, that means the benefit of somebody who is not, period. In that way, all people who are not racially oppressed benefit from racial oppression.
Likewise, those who aren't oppressed due to their sexuality, their gender, anything will benefit from the oppression of those along those lines.

Sorry but I'm not a white person.

[Module]

I was speaking in reference to Dean (and other white people in this thread who may've said things along those lines, though I only read the first and last page, as I was in the middle of class when I wrote it).

[Lector Malibu]

I was speaking in reference to Dean (and other white people in this thread who may've said things along those lines, though I only read the first and last page, as I was in the middle of class when I wrote it).

fair dinkum :)

[BobKKKindle$]

Many white people do make an effort to fight against racism, and so to suggest that all white people are racist, or racist to the same degree, is simply incorrect. In addition, it is also true that some black people (or people of any other oppressed ethnic group) may also possess racist views, as certain Chicano nationalist sites make clear: Example (http://www.aztlan.net/razajews.htm)

Asserting that the exercise racism is specific to white people is emotionally attractive, but does not correspond to reality.

White workers have no interest in maintaining the system of racist oppression, even if they are able to derive certain short-term advantages from being part of a privileged racist group, because racism creates division within the working class, by identifying economic problems as the result of another ethnic group, and so poses an impediment to the struggle against capitalism. There is a wage difference between white and black workers, primarily because of the prevalence of black workers in low-paying jobs, but the fact remains that, in a capitalist economy, every workers is paid less than the value of what they produce, such that all workers have a material interest in overthrowing capitalism, regardless of the color of their skin. Thus, any form of ideology which prevents or delays this overthrow, whether in the form of racism, or another form of oppression such as sexism, is necessarily negative, from a working-class perspective.

It is also wrong to equate benefiting from racism (in relative terms) to being a racist. All men benefit from the oppression of women - they are treated with greater respect in a discussion environment, and are less likely to face the threat of rape - but this does not mean that all men are sexists, or that men have an interest in maintaining sexism.

[Jazzratt]

Who the prancing fuck moves a thread in which restricted members are participating out of OI?

[RNK]

Oh i realize i know im pretty dang lucky to be born here

So you're just lucky while all of us crackers are actively benefiting, implying a malicious intent to the nature of race relations? You can't have it both ways.

And bob.. you're fucking boring.

[Dean]

Hey was up brother hey we got poor white folk in the hood too dont get that twisted

But ur driving down the road late at night u get pulled over you had a busted head light its all good the cop lets you go

i get pulled over same scenerio im asked to step out of the vehichle they searhc my car without my consent ask me if i have a warrant hand cuff me get my finger prints on the little computer shit they got fuck with me a bit come up with some bullshit charger like GTA the when they see they have notjhin on me let me go! thats my fucking reality every fcknig day of my life

and no im not being racist your all just geting butt hurt thats why ur all pissed well im sorry that the reality here in america like it or not u have specail PRIVALGES.

And thats why i stoped being a maxist your all fucking stupid you see things only down class lines when thier a whole bunch of shit going on thier colour lines too and to deny that thats fucking racist wake up people reality is hitting u straight in the face and like i said before i dont hate white folk u all just say stupid things telling me WHY MY LIFE IS THIS WAY WHEN YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA OF WAHT YOUR TALING ABOUT!
If whites have special privileges, I'm not white. You think I haven't been to jail? You think I've never felt the effects of prejudice in the legal system? You're dead wrong. You simply don't know where the lines are drawn.

[RNK]

That's right, whitey. You tell the black man how hard his life really is and isn't.

[BobKKKindle$]

If whites have special privileges, I'm not white

White workers are privileged only in the sense that they are less exploited and oppressed than black workers - but they still suffer exploitation and oppression, and so have a material interest in fighting against the system which generates exploitation and oppression, a fight which necessitates unity with black workers.

[Kami]

Dun understand what u said their
If I might presume to answer this one in the OP's place; He's stating that you can't actively do nothing; by definition, you would be passively doing nothing, which is rather less potent as a statement.


U FUCKNG MARXIST ARE FUCKING STUPID! HOW CAN YOU THROW OUT RACE! sure class is important and im not denying that but your assuming if all the blacks and browns and yellows were equal in income they theyd be treated the same AHAHa your really live in Amerikkka?
Amerikkka? Dear god, that's bad -.- you realise you're throwing in south and central, as well as the US there?
Throwing out race is not the answer, but it is no way as important as class; much racism is the result of class, and class is a much, much bigger problem.

Dun understand
He's saying you're being racist by making generalisations about white people.
You are.


Hey was up brother hey we got poor white folk in the hood too dont get that twisted

Is that some version of the "I have *insert race* friends, I'm not racist" defence?

But ur driving down the road late at night u get pulled over you had a busted head light its all good the cop lets you go

i get pulled over same scenerio im asked to step out of the vehichle they searhc my car without my consent ask me if i have a warrant hand cuff me get my finger prints on the little computer shit they got fuck with me a bit come up with some bullshit charger like GTA the when they see they have notjhin on me let me go! thats my fucking reality every fcknig day of my life

and no im not being racist your all just geting butt hurt thats why ur all pissed well im sorry that the reality here in america like it or not u have specail PRIVALGES.

Yes, you are being racist. Just because you are oppressed doesn't mean that you can then go on to "strike back" at everyone who is the same skin colour as the person who oppressed you. Why am I being linked with these racist ****s just because of my skin pigmentation?

Don't get me wrong, the cops in that scenario are ****s, but I don't see how their racism makes me racist.

Disclaimer: I've never been to the US

[Dean]

That's right, whitey. You tell the black man how hard his life really is and isn't.

I never said anything about his experiences. His life may be very hard and I'm not contesting that. I am cotnesting the assumption that just because of the color of my skin that I live in some "race war paradise." Sorry I don't think about everything from a racist standpoint.


White workers are privileged only in the sense that they are less exploited and oppressed than black workers - but they still suffer exploitation and oppression, and so have a material interest in fighting against the system which generates exploitation and oppression, a fight which necessitates unity with black workers.

Your argument is true if you talk about general tendancies. But if you're talking about it when it coems down to specific cases, you're simply wrong. There are plenty of white people which are much poorer than plenty of blacks. For them (us), the "race-directed oppression" is just an intellectual concept, and has no bearing on their conditions.

[Lector Malibu]

That's right, whitey. You tell the black man how hard his life really is and isn't.

Is racism is something that only minorities endure?

Let me tell you something. I just moved out here to New Mexico from the eastern United States. I live in a area that is very diverse racially now , moreso than where I'm from originally.

Never in my life have I seen such open blatant racial bias and bigotry from other minorites towards whites and other minorities.

I actually find it unbearable

[Ultra-Violence]

So you're just lucky while all of us crackers are actively benefiting, implying a malicious intent to the nature of race relations? You can't have it both ways.

^^^^^^^^^^^
My mom risked her life coming over here she was 18 pregnant and my dad came here first so she did the journey alone she was geting chased by immigration jumoed into some bushe hurt herself and started bleeding she almost lost me im lucky to be even born. and make my whole lifes focus to fight opression where ever we i am here or thier i aint trying to have it no way

If whites have special privileges, I'm not white. You think I haven't been to jail? You think I've never felt the effects of prejudice in the legal system? You're dead wrong. You simply don't know where the lines are drawn.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I know wtf im talking about i aint stupid i know how the poor white folk get it too i see but its not the same treatment we recieve and the same sentencing but still discriminatory

Amerikkka? Dear god, that's bad -.- you realise you're throwing in south and central, as well as the US there?
Throwing out race is not the answer, but it is no way as important as class; much racism is the result of class, and class is a much, much bigger problem
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
For you not for me and other colored people of the world cuase white supremacy is world wide you know

He's saying you're being racist by making generalisations about white people.
You are.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
no im not im speaking the truth and the truth hurts sometime get over it
you all make it seem like the shit that cmoes out of your guys mouth isnt racist?

Is that some version of the "I have *insert race* friends, I'm not racist" defence?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No cuase i live with poor white folk too they get treated bad i see it but no were near like us but the get the boot too and i acknowldge it

Yes, you are being racist. Just because you are oppressed doesn't mean that you can then go on to "strike back" at everyone who is the same skin colour as the person who oppressed you. Why am I being linked with these racist ****s just because of my skin pigmentation?

Don't get me wrong, the cops in that scenario are ****s, but I don't see how their racism makes me racist.

Disclaimer: I've never been to the US
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THen waht are you doing to actively challenge white supremacy?

Is racism is something that only minorities endure?

Let me tell you something. I just moved out here to New Mexico from the eastern United States. I live in a area that is very diverse racially now , moreso than where I'm from originally.

Never in my life have I seen such open blatant racial bias and bigotry from other minorites towards whites and other minorities.

I actually find it unbearable
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hmm let me think maybe its cuase the ICE are constantly raiding their neighbors hoods Myabe its cuase the racist cops keep fucking with them maybe cuase thier nieghborhoods wants and needs are constantly neglected. but you just live on with your life and find it unbearable you sir just proved my motherfucking point.

[pusher robot]

Idiots like Ultra-Violence are why lefists are nowhere politically. Congratulations, UV! You've done more to support capitalism than you'll ever know...because you're stupid.

[Lector Malibu]

no im not im speaking the truth and the truth hurts sometime get over it
you all make it seem like the shit that cmoes out of your guys mouth isnt racist?

You are not speaking the truth as your statement is not absolute and applicable to every white person.

You are making a racist assertion that is grouping all whites into one category.

Witch makes you no better than the racist you are talking about.

Racist generalize and make assumptions based on race. Just like you.


Hmm let me think maybe its cuase the ICE are constantly raiding their neighbors hoods Myabe its cuase the racist cops keep fucking with them maybe cuase thier nieghborhoods wants and needs are constantly neglected. but you just live on with your life and find it unbearable you sir just proved my motherfucking point.How do you know how I live my life? You really do make off base assumptions don't you.

I did not prove your point. Your acting like a racist. I'm not.

[Phalanx]

If whites have special privileges, I'm not white. You think I haven't been to jail? You think I've never felt the effects of prejudice in the legal system? You're dead wrong. You simply don't know where the lines are drawn.

Sure you may have been to jail, but the fact of the matter is you probably won't be pulled over due to your skin color. It goes beyond going to jail and extends into everyday life.

[Kami]

For you not for me and other colored people of the world cuase white supremacy is world wide you know... what? I said much racism was as a result of class. that response just makes no sense.

no im not im speaking the truth and the truth hurts sometime get over it
you all make it seem like the shit that cmoes out of your guys mouth isnt racist?You're NOT speaking the truth, because your claim that all whites are racist is falsifiable by finding one white that isn't.
And why are these people my guys again? Just because we share skin pigmentation?

THen waht are you doing to actively challenge white supremacy?Even if I were doing absolutely sweet fuck all, it would make not make me racist. You, however, are actively profiling all white people as racist; all you're fighting is the oppression of one people, not the concept that lead to the oppression

[Jazzratt]

This bullshit about "whites are racist because they benefit from racism" bollocks is exactly the same as the anti-worker bollocks that 'third worldist' leftists come out with when they say that everyone in the first world is part of their mythical "labour aristocracy".

[Ultra-Violence]

Idiots like Ultra-Violence are why lefists are nowhere politically. Congratulations, UV! You've done more to support capitalism than you'll ever know...because you're stupid.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah and ur a fucking jack ass **** mother fucker who locks up people for a living u fucking ****

You are not speaking the truth as your statement is not absolute and applicable to every white person.

You are making a racist assertion that is grouping all whites into one category.

Witch makes you no better than the racist you are talking about.

Racist generalize and make assumptions based on race. Just like you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You gusy are just talking out of your asses now like i said it doesn mean u fucking love hitler and are fucking saying sieheil every where NO!

What im saying is that all white people of all over the world benifit from racism im sorry if it hurts you feelings but its fucking true lookat at fuckign south africa fro fuckin sake people are you all that stupiD! or are you people jsut in fuckign denial!


How do you know how I live my life? You really do make off base assumptions don't you.

I did not prove your point. Your acting like a racist. I'm not.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Then why u *****ing when minoritys dont like U! its for a fukcing reason and its cuase ur a fucking jack ass *****ing about how u dont like it when we have to live it every fucking day of our lives! You people will never understand like the same way how us men will never understand how it feels to be an opresed woman


Sure you may have been to jail, but the fact of the matter is you probably won't be pulled over due to your skin color. It goes beyond going to jail and extends into everyday life.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

thank you and it this is fucking world wide white supremacy is a world wide thing! you idoits got to really open up your fucking EYES! for example look at Brazil Majority black whos in power in that counrty? hmm tell me who has the money the everything! white people and this goes on all over the world u guys are in denial

You're NOT speaking the truth, because your claim that all whites are racist is falsifiable by finding one white that isn't.
And why are these people my guys again? Just because we share skin pigmentation?
^^^^^^^^^^
Becuase your defending white privalge u act like it doesnt even exist :cursing:

Even if I were doing absolutely sweet fuck all, it would make not make me racist. You, however, are actively profiling all white people as racist; all you're fighting is the oppression of one people, not the concept that lead to the oppression
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Like i said in doesnt mean you a member of the nazi part or something but you are the benificiarys and you are all right now defending it all of you think about it you people are jsut proving my point

This bullshit about "whites are racist because they benefit from racism" bollocks is exactly the same as the anti-worker bollocks that 'third worldist' leftists come out with when they say that everyone in the first world is part of their mythical "labour aristocracy".
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No this iant bullshit this is the fucking reality and u fucking hippy liberals are now all offended and got your pantys all up in a bunch get over it you benift from it what are you goana do to change it? like i said before colored people of the world have been fighting this for ever it ends WHEN YOU ALL WANT IT TO END!(talking to white peoples)

wich seems that many of you dont or again are in denial

i mean did you gusy forget about Katrina?:cursing:


:cursing::cursing::cursing:

[turquino]

This bullshit about "whites are racist because they benefit from racism" bollocks is exactly the same as the anti-worker bollocks that 'third worldist' leftists come out with when they say that everyone in the first world is part of their mythical "labour aristocracy".
neither of those positions are anti-worker or "bollocks":confused:

in fact, neither is very controversial outside this discussion

have you read Noel Ignatiev's RAce Traitor, or seen some of the work of Love and Rage Collective?

[Plagueround]

Then why u *****ing when minoritys dont like U! its for a fukcing reason and its cuase ur a fucking jack ass *****ing about how u dont like it when we have to live it every fucking day of our lives! You people will never understand like the same way how us men will never understand how it feels to be an opresed woman


Have you noticed there are several non-whites in this thread that have told you you're being reactionary and racist?

[Kami]

Becuase your defending white privalge u act like it doesnt even exist http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies2/cursing.gif
Where? Where have I done this? I oppose privilege, but I suggested that the root cause of racism might have been Class! Excuse me, I'm obviously as racist as all other people who I have the misfortune of sharing pigmentation with!

[Lector Malibu]

What im saying is that all white people of all over the world benifit from racism im sorry if it hurts you feelings but its fucking true lookat at fuckign south africa fro fuckin sake people are you all that stupiD! or are you people jsut in fuckign denial!

What hurts my feelings is the above garbled sentence. Oh and in regards to South Africa and apartied or racism in general where have I said that those things do not exist? or that I support those things.


Then why u *****ing when minoritys dont like U! its for a fukcing reason and its cuase ur a fucking jack ass *****ing about how u dont like it when we have to live it every fucking day of our lives! You people will never understand like the same way how us men will never understand how it feels to be an opresed woman

Your an idiot.

For the second time I'm black as well. I'm also a homosexual. I have seen my fair share of bigotry and prejudice. The only one here complaining and being a racist is you.

And stop with the "you people" assumptions

[RGacky3]

BTW, when I talked about racism being diminished, I did'nt mean to imply that blacks and whites are treated equally, what I'm saying is racism in of itself, i.e. White people believing they are superior simply for their race, and discriminating accordingly. Obviously past racism, and modern biases based on patterns that come from that are still around definately.

I'll give you an example, my father grew up in a poor East LA neighborhood, and eventually became a professional and made money, now he's still a Mexican, but I guarantee you he's treated much better than a poor Mexican, I also guarantee you that he's treated on par with whites of his same social standing, I also know blacks that have made money, racism is'nt an issue for them.

Now I'm not saying that a cop is'nt going to pull over a black man in a nice car in a poor neighboorhood and harass him, I know that happens all the time, I see it happen all the time, or assume Mexican kids are gangbangers in a poor Mexican neighboorhood. Of coarse that happens, what I am saying however, is that does'nt happen because of racism in inself, it comes from the class system that has created certain patterns (poor people commit more crime out of despiration, due to the countries past there are proportionately much more minority poor people), so there we go. But I also know, that there are many black and Mexican cops that act the same way against black and mexican citizens. Blaiming racism, in itself, meaning white people deliberately picking on minorities with the reason being that they feel minorities are racially inferior, is ignoring the whole background causes, and the class system that causes it.

I'm also not saying that there are a lot of racists out there, but you know who the majority of racists are? poor whites, poor hispanics, and poor blacks, why? Because they view the others as a threat, which makes sense because, labor is static, and Capital is mobile. Rich Capitalists have no reason to be racist, now they may have ignorant biases, or preconcieved notions, but thats different than racism perse.

[Ultra-Violence]

Have you noticed there are several non-whites in this thread that have told you you're being reactionary and racist?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I dont care what the fuck they are their denying white privalage and act like it doesnt even fucking exist and are in fact DEFENDING IT!
Where? Where have I done this? I oppose privilege, but I suggested that the root cause of racism might have been Class! Excuse me, I'm obviously as racist as all other people who I have the misfortune of sharing pigmentation with!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If you opose it then why the fuck are you agruing with me then im not talking about you specifacaly

Your an idiot.

For the second time I'm black as well. I'm also a homosexual. I have seen my fair share of bigotry and prejudice. The only one here complaining and being a racist is you.

And stop with the "you people" assumptions
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thenwhy the fuck are you even wasting your time with me then jack ass

BTW, when I talked about racism being diminished, I did'nt mean to imply that blacks and whites are treated equally, what I'm saying is racism in of itself, i.e. White people believing they are superior simply for their race, and discriminating accordingly. Obviously past racism, and modern biases based on patterns that come from that are still around definately.

I'll give you an example, my father grew up in a poor East LA neighborhood, and eventually became a professional and made money, now he's still a Mexican, but I guarantee you he's treated much better than a poor Mexican, I also guarantee you that he's treated on par with whites of his same social standing, I also know blacks that have made money, racism is'nt an issue for them.

Now I'm not saying that a cop is'nt going to pull over a black man in a nice car in a poor neighboorhood and harass him, I know that happens all the time, I see it happen all the time, or assume Mexican kids are gangbangers in a poor Mexican neighboorhood. Of coarse that happens, what I am saying however, is that does'nt happen because of racism in inself, it comes from the class system that has created certain patterns (poor people commit more crime out of despiration, due to the countries past there are proportionately much more minority poor people), so there we go. But I also know, that there are many black and Mexican cops that act the same way against black and mexican citizens. Blaiming racism, in itself, meaning white people deliberately picking on minorities with the reason being that they feel minorities are racially inferior, is ignoring the whole background causes, and the class system that causes it.

I'm also not saying that there are a lot of racists out there, but you know who the majority of racists are? poor whites, poor hispanics, and poor blacks, why? Because they view the others as a threat, which makes sense because, labor is static, and Capital is mobile. Rich Capitalists have no reason to be racist, now they may have ignorant biases, or preconcieved notions, but thats different than racism perse.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You se this is what gets me pissed off im very well aware of fucking class and what it means to be lower class again im not talking about that im talking about fucking white supremacy! wich is something that is world wide and people over here are defening that institution. Thats why i stoped being a marxist you gusy see things only threw class lines THIER COLORED LINES TOO! and they exist for example My parents native country Guetemala about 50% of the population is indigenous and they are the poorest people 45% are the mestizos they are a *LITTLE bit better of and in some cases pretty well off 5% are fucking white spaniard lords who run the whole dang country and this is just not in guatemala this prevelant in MANY COUNTRIES WORLD WIDE! america being the fucking HQ

[Kami]

If you opose it then why the fuck are you agruing with me then im not talking about you specifacalyYes, you are. My skin is too pale to not be racist, supposedly.
That, and you're both wrong and horribly, horribly racist. I could hardly oppose racism and not argue with your racist generalisations, could I?

[Lector Malibu]

Thenwhy the fuck are you even wasting your time with me then jack ass

Your not taking up too much of my time if any at all.

[The Advent of Anarchy]

Jackass.
I'm white, and I'm an Antifa supporting ANARCHIST!

[RGacky3]

My parents native country Guetemala about 50% of the population is indigenous and they are the poorest people 45% are the mestizos they are a *LITTLE bit better of and in some cases pretty well off 5% are fucking white spaniard lords who run the whole dang country and this is just not in guatemala this prevelant in MANY COUNTRIES WORLD WIDE! america being the fucking HQ

That makes sense considering it was the Spaniards that colonized and conquered those countries. Thats not racism, thats history, and the effects of history, also in those countries racism is very prefelant, much more so than the United States, but being of spanish decent and living in guatemala does'nt make you racist, your views toward other races do.

I'm not a Marxist, I'm just looking at things in context and looking at the United States as it is.


Thenwhy the fuck are you even wasting your time with me then jack ass

If you opose it then why the fuck are you agruing with me then im not talking about you specifacaly


I could be wrong but, I think its because they care about reason, and true and untrue statements.

[Phalanx]

Jackass.
I'm white, and I'm an Antifa supporting ANARCHIST!

Sure you are. But you can escape it anytime you want.

[Ultra-Violence]

Yes, you are. My skin is too pale to not be racist, supposedly.
That, and you're both wrong and horribly, horribly racist. I could hardly oppose racism and not argue with your racist generalisations, could I?
^^^^^

I dunno even know waht your saying their

Your not taking up too much of my time if any at all
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
fair enough

Jackass.
I'm white, and I'm an Antifa supporting ANARCHIST!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ok ur in antifa THEN YOUR SUPOSE TO KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IM TALKING ABOUT JACK ASS!

That makes sense considering it was the Spaniards that colonized and conquered those countries. Thats not racism, thats history, and the effects of history, also in those countries racism is very prefelant, much more so than the United States, but being of spanish decent and living in guatemala does'nt make you racist, your views toward other races do.

I'm not a Marxist, I'm just looking at things in context and looking at the United States as it is.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
wow im not getting threw to any of you here go to guatemal and go to the colledges youll see nothin but white kids youll hardly ever see any native people and its straight out fucking racism when the army s goes and fucking exterminates whole towns and village full of natives! its fucking racism when not one native person has ever been in office! its a fucking instituion people! and the United States is like the fuckng capital of racism Just follow the Obama campiagn its right their in your face 25% of democrats will go over and vote for Mcain Why? Cuase hes BLACK! plain and simple

Sure you are. But you can escape it anytime you want.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly My point they dont seem to be understanding this!

another good example would be for example to lesbains ones white the other a person of color the white girl can hide her sexuality so can the colored person BUT! the colored person cant hide her skin color!

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/divided/etc/view.html
^^^^^^^^^
Watch this vidoe people this lady is my hero and i lover her to death maybe she can explain in better to u freaking stubborn ass people

and if she doesnt get to you maybe he will
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay_cRC1MgeQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa__78nwJec&feature=related
^^^^^^
THIS man speaks truth listen to him really listen to him dont get all emotional just listen and think then come back to me

*note i dont agree with this mans homophobia,anti semitesim etc...

[Kami]

and the United States is like the fuckng capital of racism Just follow the Obama campiagn its right their in your face 25% of democrats will go over and vote for Mcain Why? Cuase hes BLACK! plain and simpleerm.. that only means that 25% of democrats are racest, not the entire US.

I dunno even know waht your saying their
You were asserting that white people where racist, remember?

[Ultra-Violence]

erm.. that only means that 25% of democrats are racest, not the entire US.

You were asserting that white people where racist, remember?


They are becuase they benifit from it and chose to do nothing about now your just pulling shit out of your ass and getting of course did you even bother to read what i posted?

[Dean]

They are becuase they benifit from it and chose to do nothing about now your just pulling shit out of your ass and getting of course did you even bother to read what i posted?

Every time I drive down Jefferson Davis Highway, and I see the loads of poor whites in trailer parks, I am honestly not worried about how they may have benefiteed from some invisible apartheid system. I am much more concerned that our society wants to ignore poverty and talk about a much more controversial, though much less relevant topic: the racist elements that a few capitalists are trying to maintain in our economy.

Seriously, I find it sickening for you to talk about people this way. Poverty hits people of every ethnicity and creed. You are so small-minded and childish that you can't get past your distinctly racist, barbaric view of a very complicated capitalist system which oppresses people regardless of the color of their skin. Go somewhere else with this race-war trash.

[Ultra-Violence]

Every time I drive down Jefferson Davis Highway, and I see the loads of poor whites in trailer parks, I am honestly not worried about how they may have benefiteed from some invisible apartheid system. I am much more concerned that our society wants to ignore poverty and talk about a much more controversial, though much less relevant topic: the racist elements that a few capitalists are trying to maintain in our economy.

Seriously, I find it sickening for you to talk about people this way. Poverty hits people of every ethnicity and creed. You are so small-minded and childish that you can't get past your distinctly racist, barbaric view of a very complicated capitalist system which oppresses people regardless of the color of their skin. Go somewhere else with this race-war trash.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ur not under standing what im saying and i blame my slef for being a terrible writer and very bad at expersing my views but im trying the best i can

I know theirs poor white folk dont get and im not sayin thier car carryin nazis either
and i aint talking about a race war either but white supremacy is true its exist and is our job to chalnge it look at the links your geting your emotions all riled up for nothing if anything im the one who should be pissed

[Lector Malibu]

fair enough


No! Not fair enough. You have been hardly fair or reasonable whatsoever.

And because of your absolute refusal to refrain from making racist remarks and assumptions

I am asking at this point for the moderaters to take action as racism is not tolorated on the site in acordance to the forum guidelines.

And once again poverty and racism affect people of all colors and walks of life.

Because you are a black person does not warrant or justify you to be a racist regardless of the black experience.

[Dean]

Every time I drive down Jefferson Davis Highway, and I see the loads of poor whites in trailer parks, I am honestly not worried about how they may have benefiteed from some invisible apartheid system. I am much more concerned that our society wants to ignore poverty and talk about a much more controversial, though much less relevant topic: the racist elements that a few capitalists are trying to maintain in our economy.

Seriously, I find it sickening for you to talk about people this way. Poverty hits people of every ethnicity and creed. You are so small-minded and childish that you can't get past your distinctly racist, barbaric view of a very complicated capitalist system which oppresses people regardless of the color of their skin. Go somewhere else with this race-war trash.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ur not under standing what im saying and i blame my slef for being a terrible writer and very bad at expersing my views but im trying the best i can

I know theirs poor white folk dont get and im not sayin thier car carryin nazis either
and i aint talking about a race war either but white supremacy is true its exist and is our job to chalnge it look at the links your geting your emotions all riled up for nothing if anything im the one who should be pissed

Look, I'm sorry I went off, but I just don't know how to get through to you. Yes, people who benefit from racism and ignore the problem are guilty of perpetuating racism. Maybe they're even racist. But that hardly means that all people of a race which tends to be the "beneficiary" of racism are also racist. You ignore, for one, that many whites try to help stop racism. And this is probably much more relevent - most people in the U.S., including blacks, are lied to and believe that racism is not a real problem anymore. If I don't know about someone else's wrongdoing, how can I be held accountable for it?

You really need to understand how you are coming off here. You come here and post a very controversial statement, and when people who adamantly oppose racism argue that you are wrong in calling all people of a given racial group racist, you become indignant. It's simply wrong to say that all whites benefit from racism (I hardly think anyone really benefits from it, as it is divisive), it's wrong to say that whites are well aware of racism and choose to ignore it, and its ignorant to look at racism only as it is practiced against blacks. Jews and asians tend to do a lot better than blacks and hispanics in the U.S., are people in those ethnicities racist too for this simple fact?

[Ultra-Violence]

no they are not but you ingore the fact that Asians have a glass cienling they have to work twice as hard (meaning both spouses and lots of time kids have to work) then whites to get were they are. Also secondly Jews and asians have a better education than blacks or hispanics before they even came here kinda also how when the jews came to this counrty most of them were artisans and skilled and the italians were lands less *peasants and jews being skilled artisans becuase in europe they werent allowed to own land so they workd with thier hands making things

You ignore, for one, that many whites try to help stop racism
^^^^^^^^^^
No i dont thasts what i want to see more white people at demos its one of the most important elements that lots of times is missing in ARA

Look, I'm sorry I went off, but I just don't know how to get through to you. Yes, people who benefit from racism and ignore the problem are guilty of perpetuating racism. Maybe they're even racist. But that hardly means that all people of a race which tends to be the "beneficiary" of racism are also racist
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ok i understand what your saying here and yes your point is valid no doubt about it BUT for example the irish they were at first persecuted and then assimilated and quicly accepted into american mainstream (even tho thier are still stereotypes) Blacks and Browns have been in this country for how long? and we have recieved the boot for cenutrys and no end in site so what do i call that? i just hope u understand were we are coming from the same how we understand were your coming from and another thing is that we dont have this kinda of discussion often enough and if we did maybe we all wouldnt let our emotions get in our way and im done now this thread has drained me ahah dont even want to look at it

[RNK]

Kill whitey.

[Sky]

Racial epithets directed against those in positions of power e.g. whites are perfectly acceptable. However, there needs to be consistency. Asian merchants in southern Los Angeles arguably engage in far more oppression of the Black and Chicano communities than whites. Blacks and Chicanos must wage a struggle against all of the oppressors whether they be upper-class whites or Asian merchants.

[Kami]

Racial epithets directed against those in positions of power e.g. whites are perfectly acceptable.
What? why? If we're going to oppose racism, we can't be party to it.

[Bud Struggle]

Racial epithets directed against those in positions of power e.g. whites are perfectly acceptable.

I suppose that means it's all right to call Blacks in power the N-word?

[RGacky3]

Racial epithets directed against those in positions of power e.g. whites are perfectly acceptable.

Why? Thats like attacking arabs as a whole because of 911. Racism is wrong no matter who its directed to, either that, or its not wrong, pick a side Sky.


Asian merchants in southern Los Angeles arguably engage in far more oppression of the Black and Chicano communities than whites. Blacks and Chicanos must wage a struggle against all of the oppressors whether they be upper-class whites or Asian merchants.

So class war can be simply turned into race war huh?

[Sky]

I suppose that means it's all right to call Blacks in power the N-word?Sure. Blacks have understandably called the likes of Colin Powell a house nigga.

[Bud Struggle]

Sure. Blacks have understandably called the likes of Colin Powell a house nigga.

Sweet! :thumbup:


:rolleyes:

[Kami]

Sure. Blacks have understandably called the likes of Colin Powell a house nigga.
That people do it makes it absolutely okay; I'd forgotten that -.-

[Awful Reality]

That people do it makes it absolutely okay; I'd forgotten that -.-

By reducing the word "nigger" to things like the "n-word," etc, you dumb it down and do not allow to be shown the true brutal connotation and history of the word, which known would make the word unspoken in any case.

[MarxSchmarx]

By reducing the word "nigger" to things like the "n-word," etc, you dumb it down and do not allow to be shown the true brutal connotation and history of the word, which known would make the word unspoken in any case.

That's true for all curse words, don't you think.

I think all curse words are weirdly empowered like this. There is no place for such words in serious, much less any, discourse. I don't know why people feel an urge to curse. What does it add to the conversation? What is the value of such a word, except to be deliberately hurtful? None, I contend. People that use that kind of language, be it directed against racial groups or particular individuals or whatever, obviously have serious personal problems and deserve to be ignored.

[RGacky3]

People that use that kind of language, be it directed against racial groups or particular individuals or whatever, obviously have serious personal problems and deserve to be ignored.

I have some impressions. Ehem, heres Anarchist Tension "FUCKING **** FUCK LICK MY SMELLY BALLS YOU STUPID BAG OF COCK HEADS YOUR FUCKING IDEAS ARE FUCK POOP ASS SHIT. I HOPE YOU **** MUFFINS GET RAPED BY A HIPPO" followed by some inciteful concepts that bring the discussion to a whole nother level.

And heres Ultra-Violence "MOTHER FUCKING SHITHEAD RACIST MOTHER FUCKING CRACKER ASS WITH CHEESE AND SALAMI COCKSUCKER, I HOPE YOU RACIST CRACKER TURDFUCKS CHOKE ON A PAIR OF ELEPHANT BALLS AND YEAH." followed by a indepth look at the complex race relations in America .

[Lector Malibu]

I have some impressions. Ehem, heres Anarchist Tension "FUCKING **** FUCK LICK MY SMELLY BALLS YOU STUPID BAG OF COCK HEADS YOUR FUCKING IDEAS ARE FUCK POOP ASS SHIT. I HOPE YOU **** MUFFINS GET RAPED BY A HIPPO" followed by some inciteful concepts that bring the discussion to a whole nother level.

And heres Ultra-Violence "MOTHER FUCKING SHITHEAD RACIST MOTHER FUCKING CRACKER ASS WITH CHEESE AND SALAMI COCKSUCKER, I HOPE YOU RACIST CRACKER TURDFUCKS CHOKE ON A PAIR OF ELEPHANT BALLS AND YEAH." followed by a indepth look at the complex race relations in America .

Gacky would you kindly

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/Nateskin/shutthefuckup5gp.jpg

Furthermore neither of those examples you provided where not the slightest bit accurate

[Awful Reality]

I think all curse words are weirdly empowered like this

Definitely. But wouldn't you say that there's a difference between a word like "Shit" which refers to an unfavorable circumstance, or... excrement, literally, and "nigger" a derrogatory term used against a particular social group (I say "social group" because there's no good evidence that race is an important scientific and genetic contruct)? Obviously "shit" is empowered, but it's at least not offensive. "Nigger," so long as it is reduced to "The N-Word" will mean a lot more than it does, or should. And If people stop, it'll stop.

[Phalanx]

Racial epithets directed against those in positions of power e.g. whites are perfectly acceptable. However, there needs to be consistency. Asian merchants in southern Los Angeles arguably engage in far more oppression of the Black and Chicano communities than whites. Blacks and Chicanos must wage a struggle against all of the oppressors whether they be upper-class whites or Asian merchants.

So in Los Angeles you're saying it's alright to call all Asian Americans "Chinks" because somehow all of them are oppressors?

Faultless logic there :rolleyes:

[Sky]

and "nigger" a derrogatory term used against a particular social group

To unconditionally condemn the use of the word "nigger" is a manifestation of mindless political correctness. Black people use the word towards one another as an expression of brotherhood. Some Mexicans and Puerto Ricans also use the word, but it's acceptable for them to do so because of their understanding of the oppression that Blacks have endured.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

To unconditionally condemn the use of the word "nigger" is a manifestation of mindless political correctness. Black people use the word towards one another as an expression of brotherhood. Some Mexicans and Puerto Ricans also use the word, but it's acceptable for them to do so because of their understanding of the oppression that Blacks have endured.

I "understand the oppression that "Blacks" have endured", does that mean I can use the word? Or is my skin too white? :rolleyes:

I find the idea that only people of a darker skin colour can understand racist oppression to be racist in itself. It assigns significance to skin colour based on... what, exactly?

[RGacky3]

To unconditionally condemn the use of the word "nigger" is a manifestation of mindless political correctness. Black people use the word towards one another as an expression of brotherhood. Some Mexicans and Puerto Ricans also use the word, but it's acceptable for them to do so because of their understanding of the oppression that Blacks have endured.

What are you talking about? I don't know about other places but in LA some of the most racist people (against blacks) are Mexicans, but somehow its ok for them to use it? Also a lot of Puerto Ricans, I'd say most of them, and cubans, and Dominicans ARE black.

the word nigger against a black person is offensive, but also the word asshole is offensive to me when directed to me, words are not 'acceptable' or unacceptable' theres no such thing, it depends on if the person your saying it too finds it offensive, and what the intent of saying the word is.

Many Gay people find the word faggot offensive, but its not like they say well that word is acceptable in these cases and its not in other cases, its offensive because people use it in an offensive way, thats the nature of language, the same with nigger, its offensive because people use it offensively, and take it offensively, so if someone is going to take offense to it, just don't use it, unless thats your intent, if they are not going to take offense then its up to you.

Political Correctness is when people forget the point of things and view as offensive things that are not ment to be offensive. Like when people started taking offense at black people being called black, and they want to be called African American, thats being offended at something that is'nt being offensive, and making it no longer about racism, but pointless political correctness.

Also oppression is'nt racial, Capitalists exploit anyone they can, the easiest to exploit, be it whatever race they happend to be.

[Plagueround]

To unconditionally condemn the use of the word "nigger" is a manifestation of mindless political correctness. Black people use the word towards one another as an expression of brotherhood. Some Mexicans and Puerto Ricans also use the word, but it's acceptable for them to do so because of their understanding of the oppression that Blacks have endured.

I'm Irish and American Indian, can I use the word by your standards? :rolleyes:

[Sky]

Also a lot of Puerto Ricans, I'd say most of them, and cubans, and Dominicans ARE black
Puerto Ricans are predominantly triracial distinct from the black minority in Puerto Rico.



I'm Irish and American Indian, can I use the word by your standards?

The experience of Irish immigrants in the United States was little different from that of other immigrant groups such as Italians and Jews. Within one or two generations, these immigrant groups became indistinguishable from the mainstream Anglo-American culture. That you happen to have American Indian descendents is meaningless, for people in the U.S. (except for maybe the Eskimos) that claim to be Indians are in fact assimilated Anglos without any characteristics that distinguish them from the mainstream culture. Only in certain Hispanic countries do genuine Indian nations exist.

[Bluetongue]

Race theory is a political construct that has no basis in biology. Though variations exist in other cultures, what you are debating is meaningful only in a Euroamerican context.

Frankly, a racist is a person who accepts and uses race theory. Race theory can never result in anything but division and oppression. It is in all of our minds, via osmosis, but we can reject it and combat it.

For me, this "all whites are racists" thing is so funny I want to cry. Despite the fact that 90% of my ancestors are basically Europeans and that I speak English as my native language, I'm not "white" and I don't accept that classification. The fact that I have that choice is explicit in the political correctness that is associated with race theory. If a person has a Swedish father and a Yoruba mother, do you get to decide the child's race? You could, if you're so backwards as to accept the "one drop pollutes" definition of black. But PC can't swallow that, and based on that, I cannot be forced into any classification I don't choose to accept. And I choose "other" - my people are the realpeople.

This is the kind of thing that an American Cultural Revolution would erase. It's a mental shackle and it has to go. Have pride in your personal history and culture all you want - and know that whatever tribe you trace back to, they called themselves "realpeople" and everybody else "notpeople". It's just another way of saying "I'm me and not like anyone else". Hopefully one day we can have the realpeople and the colorpeople (that is, people who believe in race theory) as options on those little forms we all fill out. One day.

[Jazzratt]

The experience of Irish immigrants in the United States was little different from that of other immigrant groups such as Italians and Jews. Within one or two generations, these immigrant groups became indistinguishable from the mainstream Anglo-American culture. That you happen to have American Indian descendents is meaningless, for people in the U.S. (except for maybe the Eskimos) that claim to be Indians are in fact assimilated Anglos without any characteristics that distinguish them from the mainstream culture. Only in certain Hispanic countries do genuine Indian nations exist.

Take your racialist bullshit back to storm****.

[SeekingFreedom]

I feel that racism and discrimination of any kind is wrong. Wether it be based on looks, skintone, political views, religion, or anything at all. We should all have the freedom to question and criticize any of those things based on their content. We should be able to ask someone: "how do you explain the poverty in democratic states," or, "what do you think about verse whathisnumber in whatshisholybook". But it gets wrong when you, for example, deny people acces to a bar because they are black, or when you kill someone for being a woman.

Inquiry, not inquisition.

[Awful Reality]

I feel that racism and discrimination of any kind is wrong. Wether it be based on looks, skintone, political views, religion, or anything at all. We should all have the freedom to question and criticize any of those things based on their content. We should be able to ask someone: "how do you explain the poverty in democratic states," or, "what do you think about verse whathisnumber in whatshisholybook". But it gets wrong when you, for example, deny people acces to a bar because they are black, or when you kill someone for being a woman.

Inquiry, not inquisition.

I think we all agree? Except for maybe John Hagee?


Take your racialist bullshit back to storm****.

:lol: Storm**** :lol:

[Killfacer]

I fail to see what sky said that was racist? It may be wrong but it certainly is not racist. No where in what he wrote does it proclame the superiority of one race other the other.

Blue tounge, you say labelling yourself white is stupid. Thats seems ridiculous. The denial of your skin colour on some stupid moral basis is just incorrect. I assume because you said that "i am not white" that actually you are white. Your white, this doesnt give you any superiority over anybody else and nor should it. But denying it is just ridiculously apologetic and stupidly moralistic.

[Kropotesta]

I fail to see what sky said that was racist? It may be wrong but it certainly is not racist. No where in what he wrote does it proclame the superiority of one race other the other.
That's why Jazzrat said racialist not racist.

[black magick hustla]

Yeah most jews are white. They have assimilated to european populations.

[Plagueround]

Puerto Ricans are predominantly triracial distinct from the black minority in Puerto Rico.


The experience of Irish immigrants in the United States was little different from that of other immigrant groups such as Italians and Jews. Within one or two generations, these immigrant groups became indistinguishable from the mainstream Anglo-American culture. That you happen to have American Indian descendents is meaningless, for people in the U.S. (except for maybe the Eskimos) that claim to be Indians are in fact assimilated Anglos without any characteristics that distinguish them from the mainstream culture. Only in certain Hispanic countries do genuine Indian nations exist.

Most people just admit when they're wrong instead of delving into deeper and more absurd attempts at justification. The point was that many "races" have suffered hardship and oppression, but you have this incorrect assumption that only the ones with dark skin can throw around a word with impunity...all the rest would be racist if they did so. Incidentally my father lives in an area of Washington state with a large Hispanic population and is quite dark, causing him to get mistaken for a Mexican quite a bit (not that there is anything wrong with that). I'll let him know he can throw the N-word around all he wants so long as he doesn't let anyone in on his true ethnicity.

Also, while I don't play games about "who suffered more", your assessment of the Irish was hilarious since you conveniently forgot the hundreds of years of oppression at the hands of British imperialism (Protip: History doesn't start in America). Your analysis on the American Indian is equally shortsighted and certainly not based in reality. Go visit a reservation sometime and tell me American Indians have been assimilated into mainstream culture. Go tell a tribe like the Lakota Sioux they're no longer facing any hardship.

It saddens me that ethnocentric views like this are repackage and touted as being "realistic" and "rational" these days.

[Killfacer]

sorry my bad on the racialist thing, in Bristol people use the word racialist to call someone racist so i made the assumption. Although he did tell him to take it back to "storm****", which sounds as though he is accusing him of racism.

[Sky]

Take your racialist bullshit back to storm****.
I have made no argument based on race. Instead, I argue from the point of view of the Marxist theory of nationhood. Recall that I specifically reject the racialist idea of an American Indian identity solely on the basis of who one's descendents were. I consider Blacks as an oppressed nation not because of their physical appearance but because of their economic, historical, and territorial circumstances. To distinguish someone solely because of the color of their skin is racialist.

[Bluetongue]

Blue tounge, you say labelling yourself white is stupid. Thats seems ridiculous. The denial of your skin colour on some stupid moral basis is just incorrect. I assume because you said that "i am not white" that actually you are white. Your white, this doesnt give you any superiority over anybody else and nor should it. But denying it is just ridiculously apologetic and stupidly moralistic.

You don't get to decide that for me. Too bad. Besides, milk is white, and i'm certainly not milk colored. The fact that English doesn't HAVE a word for my skin tone is pretty indicative that y'all are messed up. I don't want to play that idiot game, and I'm not going to.

"It is wrong of you to assume that I am a gender with which you are familiar, but as it happens, I'm male"
-Octavia Butler

[Bud Struggle]

I have made no argument based on race. Instead, I argue from the point of view of the Marxist theory of nationhood. Recall that I specifically reject the racialist idea of an American Indian identity solely on the basis of who one's descendents were. I consider Blacks as an oppressed nation not because of their physical appearance but because of their economic, historical, and territorial circumstances. To distinguish someone solely because of the color of their skin is racialist.

Look--Blacks aren't a "nation." They are people who have a noticable physical trait of darker skin. Just as people white people have the physical trait of lighter skin. People with red hair aren't a nation--they are just people with red hair. Blacks have no nationhood to be loyal to. Blacks can be anything they want. They can be conservative or liberal or Communist, they don't HAVE to be anything they don't want.

To believe that certain people HAVE to behave in a certain way because of some pigment in their skin--is just racist. Taking away CHOICE from a person's life because of some pigment in their skin --is racist.

And if what you are saying is what Marx says then Marx is wrong.

Any social theory that takes away an individual's "personhood" and substitutes some nonsense about class or nationhood or tribe is just reactionary. The world has grown beyond that kind of thinking. Communists like you are why there will never be a Revolution.

So party on, Sky. :thumbup1:

[Killfacer]

BlueTounge that is an extremely pedantic veiw. Im not the colour of milk therfor i am not white. Thats just pathetic. White is just a generic term for fair skinned people of (generally) european origin.

[Kami]

Wow... I actually entirely agree with TomK. Give me a moment to get over this ^^

[Module]

I "understand the oppression that "Blacks" have endured", does that mean I can use the word? Or is my skin too white? :rolleyes:

I find the idea that only people of a darker skin colour can understand racist oppression to be racist in itself. It assigns significance to skin colour based on... what, exactly?
On the basis that 'white' people are not a racially oppressed group.

[Kami]

On the basis that 'white' people are not a racially oppressed group.
And this affects our ability to understand how exactly? Any of the working class can understand oppression.

[Lector Malibu]

Wow... I actually entirely agree with TomK. Give me a moment to get over this ^^


That was weird. I'm still in shock

[Bluetongue]

BlueTounge that is an extremely pedantic veiw. Im not the colour of milk therfor i am not white. Thats just pathetic. White is just a generic term for fair skinned people of (generally) european origin.



Let us consider a case. An African-American woman of primarily Yoruba stock and an Euro-American man of swedish stock have a baby. What color is the baby? Black. That baby grows up and has a kid with a Swiss girl. What color is the baby? Black? Why is it that a White woman can have a Black baby but a Black woman can NEVER have a White baby? What does "white" really mean? It means "pure". I remember watching a CSI Miami show about a couple that got married suddenly, then the husband killed the wife after he met her parents and "realized" she was Black - meaning he absolutely could not tell by looking at her.

You can go on and on. Why is that when people of Spain come to the Americas and have babies they are Latino whereas when Anglos do it they remain White?

What "white" really means is "not good enough, not pure, not us".

It's VILE. Not participating in bad-think is, in fact, revolutionary. You think I'm pedantic, I think you're a racist. YMMV.

[RHIZOMES]

I feel that racism and discrimination of any kind is wrong. Wether it be based on looks, skintone, political views, religion, or anything at all. We should all have the freedom to question and criticize any of those things based on their content. We should be able to ask someone: "how do you explain the poverty in democratic states," or, "what do you think about verse whathisnumber in whatshisholybook". But it gets wrong when you, for example, deny people acces to a bar because they are black, or when you kill someone for being a woman.

Inquiry, not inquisition.

So is discriminating against fascists wrong?

[Killfacer]

Blue tounge, skin colour isnt like a state of mind or something. It's just a fact. If someone is mixed raced, they are mixed race. I'm white so therfor i am white. If some one is black, they are black. Its simple, your talking about stupid ideas of "what is white?", white is a skin colour. Just because im not hung up on some ridiculous PC bullshit were i deny my skin colour you call me racist? Thats ridiculous. I have never claimed the superiority of one race over the other, i just admit that race does exist. And if all your gonna do is call me racist then your more pathetic than i thought.

[Awful Reality]

And now, why can't I delete my post?

I apologize preemptively.

[Robert]

Take your damned spam back to Hormel!

[freakazoid]

Sorry, this is probably going to be seen as spam but due to its nature once I get an answer I will delete this post.

I have been trying to post a thread (here in OI, of course), but I cannot because it 1) Automatically adds a tag no matter if I delete it or not, and 2) Says I cannot post because I cannot create new tags. Help?

Sorry, this is just the only way I could find out... since there's no OI tech thread and I can't create one...

Actually you can post in the Technical Support section, I recently found out about this myself. And there is a thread on that very topic, http://www.revleft.com/vb/cant-post-tags-t79238/index.html :)


Take your damned spam back to Hormel!

lol

[Module]

And this affects our ability to understand how exactly? Any of the working class can understand oppression.
No. Definitely not true.
Economic oppression and social oppression are two entirely different kettles of fish, in terms of their effects and their manifestations.
And no doubt failure to differentiate between them is the reason so many self proclaimed leftists fail to recognise oppressive attitudes within themselves and others.

Regardless, I think it's very important, when it comes to specific types of social oppression, for example racial oppression, that we acknowledge that those who can best understand racial oppression are those who are racially oppressed - those who are materially disadvantaged by racial discrimination.
They are in a much better place to understand the manifestations of negative discriminatory social attitudes, what these attitudes are and where and how they exist than those who try simply to see it from the outside.
Social attitudes are not easily observable things. It can come down to very subtle tendencies that people who are not effected by them either can't see, or simply refuse to believe the effects of.

Just because somebody is a leftist does not in itself mean that they are equipped with all the tools to fully understand the extent of the permeation of racism in our society!