Going Green?

[AAFCE]

I have been reading around, and I was thinking about trying to work my way into not eating Meat/Dairy etc. and I was wondering whats the easiest way to go through with this. Also, I was looking into making my own clothing,.

I will have to pay for the food on my own. (Income roughly $30/week)

Anyone have any tips etc. to get me started.

:wub:

[Everyday Anarchy]

Well I can't help much on the dairy, but I'm vegetarian. I did it overnight, to be honest. Just simply decide not to eat any more meat. You can order veggie pizzas (almost always you can ask for no cheese as well) and also at almost any restaurant you can order your usual but ask for no meat.

I know its on Peta2 so you may find it centered around a younger crowd, but I found this link to be very helpful: http://peta2.com/STUFF/s-recipe.asp

[AAFCE]

Thanks alot

The site helped alot :)

[Fawkes]

Don't become a vegetarian/vegan. I was one for a long time and I deeply regret it. Unless you have a lot of money to dish out, your diet will most likely be lacking very heavily in certain areas and you will grow unhealthy.

[Everyday Anarchy]

No problem, man. Good luck on your new lifestyle.

As for making your own clothes, try these out:
http://www.allthingsfrugal.com/sew.htm
http://www.craftsofchaddsford.com/sewingclothes.htm
To add spice to your clothes, try out stenciling. It's pretty easy and self-explanatory.

[Everyday Anarchy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 09:32 pm
Don't become a vegetarian/vegan. I was one for a long time and I deeply regret it. Unless you have a lot of money to dish out, your diet will most likely be lacking very heavily in certain areas and you will grow unhealthy.
Oh, don't listen to Fawkes. If you want to eliminate meat and dairy from your diet then do it! Do it for your reasons, nobody else's. Just because one person may have regretted it does not mean you will, too. As long as you can learn to understand your body and what it needs, you'll realize there are many ways to stay healthy and be happy.

[midnight marauder]

Originally posted by TheNewGuy
I have been reading around, and I was thinking about trying to work my way into not eating Meat/Dairy etc. and I was wondering whats the easiest way to go through with this. Also, I was looking into making my own clothing,.

I will have to pay for the food on my own. (Income roughly $30/week)

Anyone have any tips etc. to get me started.

Awesome! It's great that you're working your beliefs into your everyday life.

I don't know that there's any easiest way to transition into a vegetarian or vegan diet, per se, because every person is so much different from everyone else. People have different needs and can adjust at different rates, and that's perfectly OK. I became a vegan overnight, like Everyday Anarchy, but there's nothing wrong with slowly working into a vegan or vegetarian diet. A lot of people start but just trying to consume less and less meat until they've completely eliminated it altogether, and then move onto using less milk, eggs, and other animal products. The important thing to remember is why you're interested in becoming a vegan, and that should be all the motivation you need. :)

There are plenty of websites on the internet that have information on specific nutritional needs that vegans need to be aware of. As long as you keep in mind to eat a varied diet, making sure to get plenty of calcium, protein, and B12, you'll be fine. Veganism is extraordinarily healthy, and you'll feel the benefits of it almost immediately. You'll think clearer, you'll have more energy, and you'll in general be a lot more healthy than you would otherwise, as long as you're sure to keep up with the nutrients that most people get from meat and dairy products.

As far as money is concerned, that's another area where you'll also reap the benefits of a vegan diet right away. You'll save a ton of money by taking meat, dairy, and other animal products out of your diet, so don't worry about the claims people like Fawkes spout off. That's something you'll pick up on real quick: people will make up all sorts of inane bullshit on the internet to argue against you. Don't worry about it, falsehoods are pretty easy to argue against.


Don't become a vegetarian/vegan. I was one for a long time and I deeply regret it. Unless you have a lot of money to dish out, your diet will most likely be lacking very heavily in certain areas and you will grow unhealthy.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[AAFCE]

Yeah, I tried it for a few weeks and loved it, and I stopped for awhile and I decided I finally want to stick with it.

Tofu tastes like arsehole, I will never fall for that again :(

[Jude]

Yeah, I started on the whole vegetarian thing last spring. The second week, i couldn't resist a piece of bacon (and another, and another...) and the next day, my stomach was cramped up, and i never ate meat again. Yes it is slightly more expensive, and yes, it is a little hard on your health, and in the beginning on your will power, but if my mind wont stop me from eating steak, my stomach sure as hell will! :)

So go for it!

and were you talking about buying material and sewing clothes, or like being all crazy and makin the material too? just askin...

EDIT: its Only hard on ur health the first few weeks, then u feel great!

[lvleph]

Just remember it is not a competition. The best thing to do is make everything yourself. Be creative. I wanted to make blue berry muffins the other day, and realized I didn't have any oil. The recipe also called for eggs. I thought to myself what can I use to replace the oil (I was just going to leave the eggs out). Then I realized; Veganaise would work perfectly. Man those blueberry muffins were great.


Don't become a vegetarian/vegan. I was one for a long time and I deeply regret it. Unless you have a lot of money to dish out, your diet will most likely be lacking very heavily in certain areas and you will grow unhealthy.

I have been a vegetarian (no eggs) and off and on vegan for 13+ years. I have never had any troubles, except for finding food when I was in the Navy (they put meat in everything). I certainly was broke most of those years, and so I was not buying crazy meat substitutes. I don't normally use meat substitutes now. I make my own seitan and that is probably the only meat substitute I do eat. I ride my bike all the time, including 50+ mile bike rides. I don't take any vitamins, so I think you are completely off base.

[Jude]

ok... do you mean you prepare your seitan? or like you make it from scratch? if you make it from scratch, could you please provide a recipe, or a link to one, because i can't find one...

[Le Libérer]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 10:32 pm
Don't become a vegetarian/vegan. I was one for a long time and I deeply regret it. Unless you have a lot of money to dish out, your diet will most likely be lacking very heavily in certain areas and you will grow unhealthy.
My daughter was a vegan for about 3 years. She had to take supplements for anemia, and gained weight, especially in her stomach. Once she started adding some meat (she still doesnt eat chicken or pork) her belly went down without exercising.

She regretted it as well.

[Everyday Anarchy]

Originally posted by Debora Aro+November 15, 2007 11:35 pm--> (Debora Aro @ November 15, 2007 11:35 pm)
[email protected] 26, 2007 10:32 pm
Don't become a vegetarian/vegan. I was one for a long time and I deeply regret it. Unless you have a lot of money to dish out, your diet will most likely be lacking very heavily in certain areas and you will grow unhealthy.
My daughter was a vegan for about 3 years. She had to take supplements for anemia, and gained weight, especially in her stomach. Once she started adding some meat (she still doesnt eat chicken or pork) her belly went down without exercising.

She regretted it as well. [/b]
That must have been something that was present in her body before she turned vegan and then was triggered by it once she eliminated meat and dairy. I haven't heard of any cases like that before and I know vegans who have been with it for many many years.

[Fawkes]

Originally posted by midnight [email protected] 26, 2007 11:42 pm


You have no idea what you're talking about.
As someone who was a vegan for more than two years and who is well-read in nutrition and fitness, I most certainly do know what I'm talking about. Certain people's bodies, particularly those with type-O blood like myself, react very poorly to a lack of meat in their diet. You will be lacking in protein (there are different kinds of protein, and many of them are found only in animal products), fat, and calcium, among other things.

[lvleph]

Okay, Seitan Recipe.

2C. Wheat gluten
2 C. Water
1 Cube Vegetable Bullion
2 T. Soy Sauce
2 T. Peanut Butter
1/4 C. Nutritional Yeast


Dissolve vegetable bullion in water along with soy sauce. Mix all dry ingredients together. Add water mixture. Knead the heck out of you dough. I need for about 10 minutes. The seitan will be very sticky, so I use a mixer with a bread hook. Make a mound with your seitan dough. Cut into 4 equal size pieces. Wrap each piece in tin foil like a sausage, wrap as tight as you can. Bake at 300F for 2 hours.

Now, those measurements I listed are just approximations. I don't really measure except for the water and an approximate amount of seitan. The seitan dough should be similar to bread dough. If it is too wet add more wheat gluten. If it is too dry, water.

Also, I made this recipe up, so like I said earlier be creative. Try different ingredients. The two require ingredients are the wheat gluten and water. The rest is for flavor. Many seitan recipes call for boiling the seitan, but that leads to some of the seitan being mushy. This gives a nice firm texture.

For thanksgiving I am going to try putting stuffing in the middle of the dough and making a tofurky. The seitan tastes just like it, so we will see.

[lvleph]

Originally posted by Fawkes+November 16, 2007 05:46 pm--> (Fawkes @ November 16, 2007 05:46 pm)
Originally posted by midnight marauder+October 26, 2007 11:42 pm--> (midnight marauder @ October 26, 2007 11:42 pm)

You have no idea what you're talking about. [/b]
As someone who was a vegan for more than two years and who is well-read in nutrition and fitness, I most certainly do know what I'm talking about. Certain people's bodies, particularly those with type-O blood like myself, react very poorly to a lack of meat in their diet. You will be lacking in protein (there are different kinds of protein, and many of them are found only in animal products), fat, and calcium, among other things. [/b]

[email protected]
Calcium is more poorly absorbed by folks eating a high protein diet, or high phosphorus foods (such as soda pop and milk). Calcium also is not well absorbed from sesame seeds unless they are ground or pulverized. A recent study(1) compared the absorption of calcium from kale with the absorption from milk revealing absorption of calcium from kale was 40.9%, compared with 32.1% from milk.


Effects of chronic peanut consumption on energy balance and hedonics C M Alper and R D Mattes
During FF, peanut consumption elicited a strong compensatory dietary response (ie subjects compensated for 66% of the energy provided by the nuts) and body weight gain (1.0 kg) was significantly lower than predicted (3.6 kg; P<0.01). When customary dietary fat was replaced with the energy from peanuts, energy intake, as well as body weight, were maintained precisely. Participants were unaware that body weight was a research focus. Resting energy expenditure was increased by 11% after regular peanut consumption for 19 weeks (P<0.01). Chronic consumption of peanuts did not lead to a decline in pleasantness or hunger ratings for peanuts nor did it lead to any hedonic shift for selected snack foods with other taste qualities during any of the three treatments.

The &#39;Blood Type Diet:&#39; Fact or Fiction? (http://earthsave.org/news/bloodtyp.htm)

So what was that, that you were saying? Seriously, maybe you should think before you write.

[crimsonzephyr]

Ive been thinking about becoming a vegetarian for some time now, and its not the willpower thats keeping me back (i dont eat fastfood or drink pop w/o any problems) i just dont know if th pros outway the cons.

About three weeks ago a friend gave me a link to a health site that states human digestive systems are not made to digest meat, it continues the track is too short and the meat ends up roting in there.

So is it true that meat rots in you? or is it true that it is "vital" to live? it may just seem vital to some because they got used to eating meat...idk

[lvleph]

Human digestive systems are made to eat both meat and vegetables. However, only until recently did people begin eating so much meat. The meat rotting inside you thing is really nonsense, except that digestion is a form of rotting. Things rot (break down) because of bacteria, fungi, and enzymes.

[crimsonzephyr]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21, 2007 12:45 pm
Human digestive systems are made to eat both meat and vegetables. However, only until recently did people begin eating so much meat. The meat rotting inside you thing is really nonsense, except that digestion is a form of rotting. Things rot (break down) because of bacteria, fungi, and enzymes.
I never thought of it like that

but i also hear it causes cancer is thatt the meat or chemicals added?

supposedly white meat especially chicken is more prone to causing cancer...

[lvleph]

Well, there are lots of things that cause cancer. Red meat has been shown to increase risks of colon cancer, but so has soy. I think what has been shown is that too much protein can cause certain types of cancer.

[Vanguard1917]

You can order veggie pizzas (almost always you can ask for no cheese as well)

A pizza with no meat and no cheese? Fascinating.

I always used to think that Islamic dietary laws were pretty restrictive. But compared with secular middle class religions like veganism, Islam is actually freedom. At least with Islam i can have butter and honey on toast.

[counterblast]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2007 11:18 pm
I was thinking about trying to work my way into not eating Meat/Dairy etc. and I was wondering whats the easiest way to go through with this.

Do not stop both at the same time.

My suggestion is that you ween yourself off meat over a 1-2 week period by eating less and less of it, and incorporating other foods in place of it. And after you&#39;ve stopped eating meat, try slowly using less and less dairy in your meals. First by eliminating cow milk, and secondly by using less and less dairy-based products until you&#39;ve eliminated them completely.

[counterblast]

As for "vegan diets being more expensive"; that simply isn&#39;t true. They only become more expensive when you make fake meats the staple of your diet. Limit how many faux hamburgers (ect) you eat by only eating them occasionally, and instead incorporate vegetable soups, peanut butter/jelly sandwiches, and pasta dishes.

The only "specialty" item I would recommend on a daily basis is soy milk; and (at least here in Detroit) soy milk is priced about the same as cow milk.

[counterblast]

Originally posted by Fawkes+November 16, 2007 10:45 pm--> (Fawkes @ November 16, 2007 10:45 pm)
midnight [email protected] 26, 2007 11:42 pm


You have no idea what you&#39;re talking about.
As someone who was a vegan for more than two years and who is well-read in nutrition and fitness, I most certainly do know what I&#39;m talking about. Certain people&#39;s bodies, particularly those with type-O blood like myself, react very poorly to a lack of meat in their diet. You will be lacking in protein (there are different kinds of protein, and many of them are found only in animal products), fat, and calcium, among other things. [/b]
I really don&#39;t think blood type is a factor. I&#39;ve been vegetarian/vegan for close to 12 years, and I have type "O" blood.

I think the success of a vegan diet, depends upon personal philosophy, genetic factors, and/or pre-existing medical ailments, perhaps.

[counterblast]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22, 2007 03:16 am

You can order veggie pizzas (almost always you can ask for no cheese as well)

A pizza with no meat and no cheese? Fascinating.

I always used to think that Islamic dietary laws were pretty restrictive. But compared with secular middle class religions like veganism, Islam is actually freedom. At least with Islam i can have butter and honey on toast.
And you&#39;re a self-proclaimed communist? Your comparison is almost identical to the most commonly used pro-capitalist arguement. "At least with capitalism I can buy as many luxury cars as I want&#33;"

Sure, but at what expense? The expense that others should suffer because of your greed?

[Vanguard1917]

People will suffer because i have butter and honey on toast?

[Vanguard1917]

And you&#39;re a self-proclaimed communist? Your comparison is almost identical to the most commonly used pro-capitalist arguement. "At least with capitalism I can buy as many luxury cars as I want&#33;"

No. Under capitalism, only a small minority can afford to enjoy the best which society has to offer. Under communism, all will.

[lvleph]

Originally posted by [email protected] November 25, 04:53 pm
People will suffer because i have butter and honey on toast?
Actually, people do suffer from others not being vegan or even vegetarian. It is a simple fact that being a carnivore is actually detrimental to the the environment. Additionally, eating meat is not sustainable. Both of those result in human suffering.

Source to back up my claims. (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/78/3/664S)

I am not opposed to honey. Bees are very good for the environment.

[w0lf]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2007 06:02 am
Yeah, I tried it for a few weeks and loved it, and I stopped for awhile and I decided I finally want to stick with it.

Tofu tastes like arsehole, I will never fall for that again :(
Try boca burgers

[lvleph]

Boca tastes like ass. I use to like it, but then one day I realized how bad it tastes. I don&#39;t generally use meat substitutes, because there is no reason for it and most taste like crap. Tofu, by the way, is not a meat substitute and if prepared correctly can taste pretty good. And to support my local commune, Twin Oaks (http://www.twinoaks.org/) tofu is the best. It is firmer than any tofu out there. It is the only tofu that I will actually eat without anything with it.

[w0lf]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 10:10 pm
Boca tastes like ass. I use to like it, but then one day I realized how bad it tastes. I don&#39;t generally use meat substitutes, because there is no reason for it and most taste like crap. Tofu, by the way, is not a meat substitute and if prepared correctly can taste pretty good. And to support my local commune, Twin Oaks (http://www.twinoaks.org/) tofu is the best. It is firmer than any tofu out there. It is the only tofu that I will actually eat without anything with it.
Boca used to taste like ass to me. I&#39;ve never tried tofu though.

[Palmares]

If you have problems with veganism, I think freeganism is a nice alternative. Though I&#39;m more post-freegan ;).

I think the vegan diet is the most sustainible diet for the planet, and definitely is something to aim for, yet, I&#39;m not convinced its for everyone. Diet, and our abilities to be flexible with them, seems to be related to our individual places within the evolutionary process, and indeed, perhaps we are not all in the same place with this one.

Check out beyondvege.org (or .com?) for some interesting points about the complexity of different people&#39;s needs in diets etc.

[farleft]

I will never give up eating meat, even if it meant the suffering of all humanity.

Aiming for becoming vegan for the good of the planet?

I despair and some of the crap people say, this is iispective of the fact that veganism is detrimental to a humans health... unless you want to go for the "natural" option of downing a load of suppliment pills.

(I wont bother listing a load of places to find out this info, you should all have a search engine).



Just my two pence worth.

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

Yeh...I dont see the appeal of veganism. Vegies I can understand, but why not drink milk?

[lvleph]

Well there a multiple reasos not to drink milk. One reason is the environmental impact of grazing animals in large mass. There is the conditions that milk cows live in. And many other people don&#39;t believe in keeping animals as slaves. I am sure there are plenty of other reasons, such as health, but you could look them up.

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

But man made food uses humans as slaves...coffe being a bad one

Its best we just starve and die....its better for the world and it decreases the surplus population

[Vanguard1917]

Originally posted by Y Chwildro Comiwnyddol [email protected] 29, 2007 03:22 pm
Its best we just starve and die....its better for the world and it decreases the surplus population
Yes, exactly. That&#39;s what deep greens dream about every night, i&#39;m sure.

[Palmares]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2007 08:46 am
I will never give up eating meat, even if it meant the suffering of all humanity.

Aiming for becoming vegan for the good of the planet?

I despair and some of the crap people say, this is iispective of the fact that veganism is detrimental to a humans health... unless you want to go for the "natural" option of downing a load of suppliment pills.

(I wont bother listing a load of places to find out this info, you should all have a search engine).



Just my two pence worth.
Those first two sentences are selfish to say the least.

However, the latter part of your post does make valid points about what replaces the nutrients from animal products in one&#39;s diet. It appears, that giving up meat may not be so bad if one still takes the nutrients from dairy (correct me if I&#39;m wrong it cannot replace the same nutrients), but not animal products at all does point to some degree about taking vitamin pills etc. Though, plant replacements etc do exist, as far as what is the natural diet goes, perhaps what is most healthy for human beings, I really don&#39;t think a vegan diet points that way.

The point really is to me, for the survival of humanity and the environment/planet, an equilibrium must be sought.

[farleft]

Originally posted by Cthenthar+December 29, 2007 08:25 pm--> (Cthenthar @ December 29, 2007 08:25 pm)
[email protected] 29, 2007 08:46 am
I will never give up eating meat, even if it meant the suffering of all humanity.

Aiming for becoming vegan for the good of the planet?

I despair and some of the crap people say, this is irespective of the fact that veganism is detrimental to a humans health... unless you want to go for the "natural" option of downing a load of suppliment pills.

(I wont bother listing a load of places to find out this info, you should all have a search engine).



Just my two pence worth.
Those first two sentences are selfish to say the least.

However, the latter part of your post does make valid points about what replaces the nutrients from animal products in one&#39;s diet. It appears, that giving up meat may not be so bad if one still takes the nutrients from dairy (correct me if I&#39;m wrong it cannot replace the same nutrients), but not animal products at all does point to some degree about taking vitamin pills etc. Though, plant replacements etc do exist, as far as what is the natural diet goes, perhaps what is most healthy for human beings, I really don&#39;t think a vegan diet points that way.

The point really is to me, for the survival of humanity and the environment/planet, an equilibrium must be sought. [/b]
I dont care that they are selfish, veganism is a stupid idea.

Like other people are saying, for environmental issues it would be better if we killed ourselves.

Meanwhile back in the real world veganism is a stupid idea...

[lvleph]

And you based this off of what? Your feelings? Take your feelings and piss off then. It is nice to see someone in the commie club that doesn&#39;t care about the suffering of all man kind, just so they could continue to eat meat. I thought Communism was suppose to help end some suffering, but here you are saying you wouldn&#39;t care, because you are selfish. So I guess we couldn&#39;t count on you to make sacrifices for the revolution, either.

[farleft]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 03:07 pm
And you based this off of what? Your feelings? Take your feelings and piss off then. It is nice to see someone in the commie club that doesn&#39;t care about the suffering of all man kind, just so they could continue to eat meat. I thought Communism was suppose to help end some suffering, but here you are saying you wouldn&#39;t care, because you are selfish. So I guess we couldn&#39;t count on you to make sacrifices for the revolution, either.
So you prefer dictatorship?

You telling me what I can and cant do in accordance with what YOU feel is right and wrong?

I love your communism...

[lvleph]

Originally posted by farleft+December 30, 2007 01:56 pm--> (farleft @ December 30, 2007 01:56 pm)
[email protected] 30, 2007 03:07 pm
And you based this off of what? Your feelings? Take your feelings and piss off then. It is nice to see someone in the commie club that doesn&#39;t care about the suffering of all man kind, just so they could continue to eat meat. I thought Communism was suppose to help end some suffering, but here you are saying you wouldn&#39;t care, because you are selfish. So I guess we couldn&#39;t count on you to make sacrifices for the revolution, either.
So you prefer dictatorship?

You telling me what I can and cant do in accordance with what YOU feel is right and wrong?

I love your communism... [/b]
You misinterpreted what I said. What I was saying is how can you be a communist or leftist and be selfish? It doesn&#39;t make any sense. You only basis for not being a vegan is out of selfishness, you might as well be a capi, because what you said was that you would not be vegan even if the entire human population had to suffer for it. I am not getting into whether being vegan is right or wrong, all I am referring to is your selfishness.

[farleft]

Originally posted by lvleph+December 30, 2007 09:09 pm--> (lvleph @ December 30, 2007 09:09 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2007 01:56 pm

[email protected] 30, 2007 03:07 pm
And you based this off of what? Your feelings? Take your feelings and piss off then. It is nice to see someone in the commie club that doesn&#39;t care about the suffering of all man kind, just so they could continue to eat meat. I thought Communism was suppose to help end some suffering, but here you are saying you wouldn&#39;t care, because you are selfish. So I guess we couldn&#39;t count on you to make sacrifices for the revolution, either.
So you prefer dictatorship?

You telling me what I can and cant do in accordance with what YOU feel is right and wrong?

I love your communism...
You misinterpreted what I said. What I was saying is how can you be a communist or leftist and be selfish? It doesn&#39;t make any sense. You only basis for not being a vegan is out of selfishness, you might as well be a capi, because what you said was that you would not be vegan even if the entire human population had to suffer for it. I am not getting into whether being vegan is right or wrong, all I am referring to is your selfishness. [/b]
oh well

[Palmares]

I&#39;m with lvleph here.

Sounds strange to have someone to say they are for equality (by extension of believing in true communism etc), yet quite quickly is willing to drop the proverbial ball of humanity for their slice of flesh to eat.

The point really isn&#39;t at all about being moralistic about whether your actions are right or wrong here, but rather, "never give up eating meat, even if it meant the suffering of all humanity.", seems to go against the grain of an ideology that infact is for humanity.

Communism (or anarchism etc) do not explicitly elude to being vegan or similar, but certainly do pervade to being for the emancipation of the suffering of humanity.

Dogmatism won&#39;t get you anywhere buddy.

[farleft]

Well this is a bit irrelevant as we&#39;re never going to be in a situation post or pre revolution where people will be made to give up meat.

Maybe we could force vegans to give up veg and make them eat meat instead...

One of the many great things about a post revolutionary communist society is we will all be allowed to eat what the fuck we choose to eat, anyone attempting to tell someone what they can and cant eat or do should be shot on the spot.

[Bilan]

farleft, your persistantly missing the point of what they&#39;re saying.
No one is trying to coerce you into not-eating meat, or anything.
The simple fact is that, you will never give up eating meat, even if it meant the suffering of all humanity.
That&#39;s the issue.

[farleft]

That&#39;s an issue? :lol:

[lvleph]

Apparently the point is just lost on you. So...

[Bilan]

I can&#39;t tell if you&#39;re joking or not&#33; haha
If you&#39;re not joking, then yes, it&#39;s a big issue&#33;
the suffering of all humanity for ones privilege is an issue&#33;

[Palmares]

Saying never to something, in any situation is problematic to me. Its dogma. And its especially as a problem to me if someone is willing to let "all of humanity" suffer for it.

[w0lf]

Lets keep veganism/vegetarianism a personal choice not a government&#39;s choice, eh?

[Palmares]

What's with people missing the point all the time in this thread?

Noone is saying the government should make people vegan, indeed, i believe personal choice is what is being espoused here.

It's someone's selfishness, even in revolution, that's the issue.

And hell, I don't believe in government either...

[lvleph]

I am an Anarchist, so of course I don't support forced anything. I can't believe that people have missed the point either. The point was selfishness, that is all. I was hoping that people would be more self critical and realize that it may be selfish and that is neither communist nor anarchist in nature.

[farleft]

Saying never to something, in any situation is problematic to me. Its dogma. And its especially as a problem to me if someone is willing to let "all of humanity" suffer for it.

Maybe you should seek help for those problems :D

[farleft]

I am an Anarchist, so of course I don't support forced anything. I can't believe that people have missed the point either. The point was selfishness, that is all. I was hoping that people would be more self critical and realize that it may be selfish and that is neither communist nor anarchist in nature.

Eating meat is selfish? this is because its "detrimental" to the environment?

Me taking a piss and flushing the toilet is "detrimental" to the environment, should I stop doing that as well? after all it is very selfish of me...

[lvleph]

Eating meat is selfish? this is because its "detrimental" to the environment?

Me taking a piss and flushing the toilet is "detrimental" to the environment, should I stop doing that as well? after all it is very selfish of me...


I will never give up eating meat, even if it meant the suffering of all humanity.That is what was selfish



Aiming for becoming vegan for the good of the planet?

I despair and some of the crap people say, this is irespective of the fact that veganism is detrimental to a humans health... unless you want to go for the "natural" option of downing a load of suppliment pills.

(I wont bother listing a load of places to find out this info, you should all have a search engine).


Just my two pence worth.

First of all I had already debunked the notion that eating vegan or vegetarian was unhealthy. And I also showed that being vegan or vegetarian was most certainly better for the environment. Putting those two items aside we have been saying that your first statement was selfish, and that is what the whole conversation has been about.

[Palmares]

Maybe you should seek help for those problems :D

I have finally given up on the functionality of your brain.

[farleft]

Vegans jailed over death of baby (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6642543.stm)

A vegan couple have been sentenced to life in prison by a US court over the death of their malnourished baby.

Click the link to read more.

Veganism is NOT the healthy or the natural option!

[Jude]

Do you know all of the details of this case? Was this child getting enough protein, fiber, and all other nutrients necessary to human survival?

Because if you are seriously going to sit here and tell me that it is impossible to get all of the necessary nutrients with a vegan diet, please, rethink this radical position.

I know two kids (twins, actually) who have been vegans since birth. They are perfectly healthy, not malnourished, and their parents are not in any way wealthy. they have never consumed meat or any animal product, and have more energy than most people i know that eat meat.

But at least you used an example of something that was "forced" on someone instead of trashing people who assume veganism/vegetarianism as a personal lifestyle

[farleft]

Did you also read the link on the right hand side entitled: Children harmed by vegan diets (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4282257.stm)

It starts off like this (I wont copy paste the whole lot):

Putting children on strict vegan diets is "unethical" and could harm their development, a US scientist has argued. Lindsay Allen, of the US Agricultural Research Service, attacked parents who insisted their children lived by the maxim "meat is murder".
Animal source foods have some nutrients not found anywhere else, she told a Washington science conference.

[Palmares]

I think the site "www.beyondveg.com" is a good source for different ways of looking at different types of diets.

After reading some of the varied accounts on that site (along with real-life experiences), I came to the view that, though vegan/vegetarian diets are more helpful for the survival of the planet, I don't believe this holds the key to the way we should eat. People have evolved in different ways, and thus, require different things according to their different characteristics.

Perhaps vegan/vegetarian diets work for some people.

Perhaps they don't for others.

I'm not really saying non-meat eating or meat eating are the absolute ways inwhich to eat, but rather, I think we should take a non-dogmatic, socially-responsible, yet eclectically respectful approach.


Vegans jailed over death of baby (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6642543.stm)

This is irrelevant to this thread.

Noone is a veganazi here.

Do you deliberately misunderstand everything you disagree with?

[farleft]

When a topic comes up that is completely stupid and of no importance what-so-ever then yes, I like to play around a bit.

I do as you can tell disagree with veganism, if someone wants to then that’s fine because obviously as an anarchist people have the right to do what they like.

However someone saying that being a vegan is the healthy option and for the sake of the planet we should be vegans is bloody ridiculous to say the least.

[Palmares]

The problem is, you haven't actually said specifically why and how the issues are "stupid" or of "no importance".

Not to mention you're misunderstanding what I'm saying (so the points you have made aren't entirely valid).

I'm not going to bother trying to explain it again....

[w0lf]

Veganism is NOT the healthy or the natural option!


So animals that are fed hormones and kept in a tight building is natural?

Stupidity.

[Comeback Kid]

VEGANISM IS A RELIGION. ORLY.

just like straight edge is a gang.

Going to 6 months Vegan. no loss of weight, slight gain of body fat.

Also, Islam is not freedom. shutup.


B12 is the only deficiency's you should have as it is solely produced by animals. B group vitamins are obtainable through yeast based fermented products (in short. more beer and Vegemite)

Tannins which is found in most products containing caffeine inhibits iron absorption so no caffeinated beverages within 2-30 mins of a meal, and only one or so cups a day.

Read up as there are alot of things outside meat and dairy that are not vegan that may be in your diet. Gelatin is made from the joints of animals and is present in most all soft jellies and lollies . Rennet shouldn't be a problem. White sugar in the US can sometimes be made with animal bone charcoal. Most Beers (in Aus anyways) are gel filtered with a gelatin mix, (tooheys and coopers are the a-okay ones for fellow Aussies, dunno if you Americans have either of those brands), same with wines but they use Casin which comes from shellfish (i think).

[farleft]

So animals that are fed hormones and kept in a tight building is natural?

Stupidity.

Did I say that? or did you just make up some random crap and insinuate that it's my view?

Stupidity.

[Pawn Power]

So animals that are fed hormones and kept in a tight building is natural?

Stupidity.

oh, oh, you know what else isn't "natural"....ten thousand acer fields of corn, soy, and barely. You think corn you "naturally" propagates like that. Moreover, how do you think corn got to be the size it is today...to it evolve "naturally" to be a foot long??

Please define "natural" before you go throwing it about. Its a messy word.

[w0lf]

oh, oh, you know what else isn't "natural"....ten thousand acer fields of corn, soy, and barely. You think corn you "naturally" propagates like that. Moreover, how do you think corn got to be the size it is today...to it evolve "naturally" to be a foot long??

Please define "natural" before you go throwing it about. Its a messy word.
Natural: existing in or formed by nature

Plants are formed in nature, they grow in nature. It is natural for plants to grow.

From your point of view cows were always born in slaughter houses were they naturally fed on hormones.

[w0lf]

Did I say that? or did you just make up some random crap and insinuate that it's my view?

Stupidity.

You said veganism is 'unnatural' I was under the impression that you ate dead animals.

[farleft]

So are you saying that eating meat is unnatural? Are you saying that one animal eating another is unnatural?

Lock up the lions! The bastards!

[w0lf]

So are you saying that eating meat is unnatural? Are you saying that one animal eating another is unnatural?

Lock up the lions! The bastards!

We should also pick bugs out of our friends hair and eat them like monkeys.

[AAFCE]

Bah, this thread took a turn for the worse. :/

[Comeback Kid]

The higher fat content of an ominvorus diet must have clogged the brains of certain posters.