Bush wont allow Calif to put of the Fires

[Mkultra]

A top California official has criticized President Bush’s visit and called on him to order California National Guard out of Iraq to help out in their home state.

Speaking on MSNBC, California Lieutenant Governor John Garamendi said Bush’s visit would distract from the relief effort. He said: ‘What we really need are those firefighters, we need the equipment. We need frankly -- we need our troops back from Iraq.”


His comments come as California Democratic Senator Barbara Boxer said the California National Guard is operating with just the half the equipment it needs because of the war in Iraq.

[Comrade Nadezhda]

Bush disgusts me, along with his whole "the bullshit war is more important than the American people. It's sick.

do you have a source??

[Faux Real]

What good would the National Guard do in this situation anyway? Shoot at people while evacuating their homes?

[Comrade Nadezhda]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 06:37 pm
What good would the National Guard do in this situation anyway? Shoot at people while evacuating their homes?
indeed. :ph34r:

[AAFCE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 05:37 pm
What good would the National Guard do in this situation anyway? Shoot at people while evacuating their homes?
Eh, there is plenty they could do.

Such as helping people evacuate their homes with their belongings.
Bring food/water to those who are in need.


Now, I doubt they would actually do that, but there are possibilities.

My father was in the NG.

[Comrade Nadezhda]

the problem is not what they could do, but what they would actually do.

[AAFCE]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 24, 2007 06:15 pm
the problem is not what they could do, but what they would actually do.
Right

Sad thing is, the National Guard is supposed to specialize in stuff like this <_<

[Comrade Nadezhda]

Originally posted by TheNewGuy+October 24, 2007 07:18 pm--> (TheNewGuy @ October 24, 2007 07:18 pm)
Comrade [email protected] 24, 2007 06:15 pm
the problem is not what they could do, but what they would actually do.
Right

Sad thing is, the National Guard is supposed to specialize in stuff like this <_< [/b]
The national guard is controlled by the bourgeois state, so you can&#39;t get too hopeful.

[Faux Real]

Hehe, just like "America&#39;s troops" have gone into Iraq to "serve" and "liberate" the Iraqi people.

Really though, if I were in Los Angeles (or around the fire) I wouldn&#39;t feel any safer seeing a bunch of people in military uni&#39;s, unless they were dressed as civilians (including not carrying weapons).

If they were sent in it would be to make sure noone is looting, like how they did in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina.

[Comrade Nadezhda]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 07:23 pm
Hehe, just like "America&#39;s troops" have gone into Iraq to "serve" and "liberate" the Iraqi people.

Really though, if I were in Los Angeles (or around the fire) I wouldn&#39;t feel any safer seeing a bunch of people in military uni&#39;s, unless they were dressed as civilians (including not carrying weapons).

If they were sent in it would be to make sure noone is looting, like how they did in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina.
yeah exactly.

[Comrade Rage]

I think the NG is just dressed up as Firefighters when they have to put out forest/wildfires.

Most of what they do is spray flame-retardant from a helicopter, as well as provide transport for evacuees.


Originally posted by rev0lt
If they were sent in it would be to make sure noone is looting, like how they did in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina.
It was the same situation as in Cali, the NG was in Iraq--so they sent in those still here---along with a bunch of Blackwater fucks. I think it was mostly Blackwater doing the looting.

[Mkultra]

you can say the iraqi insurgents are stopping Bushs looting of Iraq

[Redmau5]

Bush probably started the Cali fires himself. :rolleyes:

Mkultra, you need to recognise that Bush isn&#39;t the sole source of all the world&#39;s problems. You really have to get over your boner for Bush-bashing.

[Mkultra]

well I noticed those Blackwater mercenaries that shot those Iraqi civilians are back in the states now I wonder if any of them have been to Cali...

[Faux Real]

In other news ICE and the State Department have called for guards at the fire shelters to check up on everyone&#39;s social security number, resulting in "scores" of "illegal" immigrant worker deportations.


SAN DIEGO, Oct. 26 — Out of the burning brush, from behind canyon rocks, several immigrants bolted toward a group of firefighters, chased not by the border police but by the onrush of flames from one of the biggest wildfires this week.

Their appearance startled the firefighters, who let them into their vehicles. But with the discovery of four charred bodies in an area of heavy illegal immigration, concern is growing that others may not have survived.

“Their hands were burned, and they were clearly tired and grateful,” Capt. Mike Parkes of the State Department of Forestry and Fire Protection reported on what his firefighting team saw.

Immigrants from south of the border, many illegal, provide the backbone of menial labor in San Diego, picking fruit, cleaning hotel rooms, sweeping walks and mowing lawns.

The wildfires, one of the biggest disasters to strike the county, exposed their often-invisible existence in ways that were sometimes deadly.

The four bodies were found in a burned area in southeastern San Diego County, a region known for intense illegal immigration. It is near Tecate, where a chain securing an evacuated border crossing was cut and people were seen flowing into the United States until the Border Patrol arrived, said Michael J. Fisher, the chief patrol agent in San Diego.

As firefighting continued on Friday, makeshift camps for immigrants in the northern part of the county stood largely abandoned. Some immigrants were said to be hiding in even more remote terrain. Others sought help from churches.

“I was pretty scared. We had to leave in the middle of the night, and we went to the church,” said Juan Santiago, a immigrant worker in the Rancho Peñasquitos neighborhood, just south of the hard-hit Rancho Bernardo area.

Terri Trujillo, who helps the immigrants, checked on those in the canyons, urging them to leave, too, when she left her house in Rancho Peñasquitos ahead of the fires.

Ms. Trujillo and others who help the immigrants said they saw several out in the fields as the fires approached and ash fell on them. She said many were afraid to lose their jobs.

“There were Mercedeses and Jaguars pulling out, people evacuating, and the migrants were still working,” said Enrique Morones, who takes food and blankets to the immigrants’ camps. “It’s outrageous.”

Some of the illegal workers who sought help from the authorities were arrested and deported. Opponents of illegal immigration, including civilian border watch groups, seized on news that immigrants had been detained at the Qualcomm Stadium evacuation center as evidence of trouble that illegal immigrants cause.

The Border Patrol also arrested scores of illegal immigrants made visible by the fires. Agent Fisher of the Border Patrol said 100 had been arrested since the fires started Sunday.

He said that the agency never abandoned enforcing the border and that agents helped with removals and rescues. Fire blocked some access points to border areas, but Agent Fisher said, “We were very conscious in making sure our border security mission was met.”

Some people have speculated, including on the Web, that immigrants might have set some of the fires, as has occurred with campfires lighted in fields.

The authorities have not given any causes linked to immigration.

Two men, one in San Diego County and the other in Los Angeles, who were arrested on arson charges, accused of setting small fires this week, are believed to be deportable, a federal immigration official said.

The San Diego police detained people suspected of stealing at Qualcomm Stadium. Six were handed over to the immigration authorities when it became apparent that they might be in the United States illegally.

The Border Patrol said the six, and at the group’s request, an American juvenile with them, were returned to Mexico.

The American Civil Liberties Union said it had received reports that people had been denied help at shelters because they lacked proper identification. Officials have been checking identification to prevent people not affected by the fires from taking advantage of the free food, clothes and other services.

The concerns of the rights group drew a rebuke from Representative Brian P. Bilbray, a Republican who represents areas along the border.

“People are dying because we can’t control our border,” Mr. Bilbray said. “That’s what they should be screaming about. Anyone who knows the land and the illegal activity in that rugged terrain knows there was no way we would avoid deaths in this.”

Wayne A. Cornelius, a political scientist at the University of California, San Diego, who studies border questions, said that if the past was a guide there would be more friction over the fires and their effects on illegal immigrants.

“San Diego likes its illegal migrants as invisible as possible,” Mr. Cornelius said. “So whenever something happens that calls attention to their presence, it is fodder for the local anti-immigration forces.”

In one sign of cooperation, a Mexican firefighting team from Baja California helped American firefighters with a major blaze along the border early in the week.

For the immigrants, the fires may have dried up some work. But some speculate on strong work prospects like cleanups. By early afternoon near a heavily damaged neighborhood in the Rancho Bernardo area, four men stood on a corner, waiting for work offers.

“It is a shame what happened,” said a man who gave just his first name, Miguelito. “But we think there will be jobs to clean or build.”

Source (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/27/us/27illegals.html?hp).

[Dominicana_1965]

As was guessed, the rich in SoCal have first dibs on wildfire emergencies. (Among others of course)


RANCHO SANTA FE, CALIF. - Bryce Carrier’s cellphone rang at 3 a.m.: Help&#33; The fire is almost to my house.Carrier hopped into his heavy-duty red Ford F-550 and sped to northeast Poway, dodging fallen eucalyptus and heading straight toward the wind-whipped blaze. He arrived to find flames marching up an embankment toward the multimillion-dollar home.1026 03

Yanking out the hose in the back of his truck, he began applying Phos-Chek fire retardant along the perimeter of the property, the shrubs and the roof. When the flames hit the milky white liquid, they stopped.

Another home saved.

Carrier is a certified firefighter, but he doesn’t work for a government agency. He’s an employee of Firebreak Spray Systems, which partners with the insurance company American International Group Inc. to protect the mansions of the moneyed.

AIG’s Wildfire Protection Unit, part of its Private Client Group, is offered only to homeowners in California’s most affluent ZIP Codes — including Malibu, Beverly Hills, Newport Beach and Menlo Park — and a dozen Colorado resort communities. It covers about 2,000 policyholders, who pay premiums of at least &#036;10,000 a year and own homes with a value of at least &#036;1 million.

Carrier and his 15 crew mates sprayed retardant on and around more than 160 homes in Malibu, Lake Arrowhead and the hardest-hit areas of Orange and San Diego counties this week. They claim to have saved a dozen homes.

Jim Moore of Malibu, for one, was grateful for their services.

“Just picture it,” said Moore, whose house was sprayed by Firebreak early Monday. “Here you are in that raging wildfire. Smoke everywhere. Flames everywhere. Plumes of smoke coming up over the hills. Here’s a couple guys showing up in what looks like a firetruck who are experts trained in fighting wildfire and they’re there specifically to protect your home. . . . It was really, really comforting.”

For the insurance company, it’s also savvy business. One saved home covers the cost of the program.

“We are saving homes that may average &#036;3 million to &#036;5 million,” said Firebreak Chief Executive Jim Aamodt. “Those are the hard dollars, money the insurance company is not paying out.”

AIG says the service is not a replacement for public fire departments; after all, the insurer did lose some houses. But like an air bag in a car crash, the company says, it’s better than nothing.

Others say that it’s just another way for the wealthy to buy their way around cash-strapped, understaffed public services. Firefighters across the region have complained this week that they simply did not have enough trucks, helicopters and airplanes.

“What we have is a dangerous confluence of events: underfunded states, increasingly inefficient disaster response, a loss of faith in the public sphere . . . and a growing part of the economy that sees disaster as a promising new market,” said Naomi Klein, whose new book, “The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism,” looks at, among other things, the response to Hurricane Katrina.

Klein said AIG offers a glimpse into the future of what she calls “disaster apartheid,” in which the affluent are better equipped for emergencies.

“You can’t fault businesses for seeing an opportunity, and you can’t fault individuals for wanting to protect their property. Pretty much anyone who could afford it would want it,” she said. “But survival shouldn’t be a luxury item.”

AIG said it did apply fire retardant to homes of some standard policyholders if they happened to be nearby, because it made financial sense. Though AIG is the only insurance company to provide emergency fire response teams, there are other fire prevention businesses that cater to the elite.

As blazes raged in Malibu this week, camera crews captured a groundskeeper at movie producer Jeffrey Katzenberg’s mansion coating the building with foam using a system installed several years ago.

Firebreak sells similar retardant systems apart from its work with AIG and says sales have tripled over last year. Installation costs about &#036;10,000 for a device that can be activated remotely or deployed automatically when sensors detect fire approaching.

More-frugal homeowners can spend &#036;1,000 to buy Phos-Chek, the same retardant used by the U.S. Forest Service but without the red coloring. The concentrate is mixed with water and applied with a hose.

AIG’s private fire service approach isn’t exactly new. In the 1800s, many firefighters worked for for-profit companies and would battle blazes only for those with insurance. Insurers in places including Richmond, Va., gave their clients plaques to alert crews that their homes had coverage.

AIG began its Private Client Group insurance in 2000, and it has since grown to almost &#036;1 billion in gross premiums.

Besides specialty fire protection, in Florida AIG offers a similar service for hurricanes, dispatching pre-disaster consultants to assess shutter protection, property storage and landscaping. Home restoration teams head in after storms to help with immediate repairs, even before claims are reported, said Todd Triano, vice president of loss prevention for AIG Private Client Group.

On Thursday, AIG and Firebreak teams fanned out across San Diego County, returning to homes they had sprayed to assess saves and losses. On one block of Zumaque Street in Rancho Santa Fe, with homes all around burnt to the ground, Aamodt surveyed two surviving homes bounded by blackened mountainside and singed trees.

“This is a classic use of Phos-Chek,” Aamodt said, pointing at shrubs that were half blackened and half green. “It chars at the edge of the Phos-Chek line and then it stops. . . . This is a great feeling. We’re ecstatic.”

One of the houses is owned by Kerry Roland, who returned home Thursday feeling lucky. Three houses to the south and one just north were gone.

Roland said she believed a number of factors contributed to the save, including firefighters who had put out a flare-up on her roof before AIG arrived; sprinklers she kept running; and the location of her house, on the crest of the ridge.

“When I packed up and left on Monday morning, I didn’t think our home would survive,” said Roland, 51. “It’s amazing, isn’t it? My property and the one opposite me, we both had fire retardant used.”

Local firefighters have mixed opinions about the value of services such as Firebreak.

Capt. Dan Froelich of San Diego Fire and Rescue said he was concerned what could happen if private companies sent undertrained, ill-equipped crews into fire zones and the crews got trapped and needed rescuing.

But Maurice Luque, a spokesman for San Diego Fire and Rescue, said fire retardant could be effective.

“The stuff works really well,” he said, noting that private companies are used more in eastern San Diego County.

In such places, he said, there are not many fire agencies and response times can be long. “The residents have to fend for themselves in these mountain or remote areas,” he said.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/26/4831/

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 08:30 pm
A top California official has criticized President Bush’s visit and called on him to order California National Guard out of Iraq to help out in their home state.

Speaking on MSNBC, California Lieutenant Governor John Garamendi said Bush’s visit would distract from the relief effort. He said: ‘What we really need are those firefighters, we need the equipment. We need frankly -- we need our troops back from Iraq.”


His comments come as California Democratic Senator Barbara Boxer said the California National Guard is operating with just the half the equipment it needs because of the war in Iraq.
dont they have regular firemen in America anyway? :blink:

The only time that the army were called on to do this job in the UK is when the firemen were on strike

[Mkultra]

these werent ordinary fires

[Comrade Nadezhda]

its comparable to any natural disaster shit that&#39;s ever gone on in america

and most of the time the response to it is just fucked up anyway

i have a friend who moved to florida and her neighborhood was basically destroyed by hurricanes a few years back. she actually called me before it hit and told me how worried she was, etc. and i didn&#39;t hear from her for weeks. next time I heard from her she called about 3 weeks after that telling me of the damage and the national guard&#39;s poor response to it.

[Mkultra]

global warming are making storms alot more Revolutionary