Firearms training opportunity in Western Mass

[ellipsis]

This Saturday and Sunday in Westfield, Mass there will be an annual Machine Gun shoot. This is your chance to train (for a price) with fully automatic rifles, heavy machine guns, handguns and shotguns. Any thing you could ever want to shoot is there (including chainguns). More info on their website. NOTE: This is a perfectly legal event. Be aware that the event is run by off-duty police officers and plan accordingly
Here is a picture of me shooting an AK in 5.56 at the shoot last year

http://lh3.google.com/therevolutionscript/RvCEhb39dTI/AAAAAAAAAOY/9sxurVAx3yI/s400/DSC01857.jpg

and my comrade in arms shooting an HK 5

http://lh5.google.com/therevolutionscript/RvCEg739dSI/AAAAAAAAAOQ/ZpFPyqRq1n8/s400/DSC01856.jpg

I will most certainly be there with several comrades, training all day Saturday. If anyone ends up come feel free to find me, the pictures of my hair will be more than enough to identify me.

[Dr Mindbender]

damn. The one reason I hate being in the UK. :(


(well that and because its a capitalist hell hole but you get my point)

[RedStaredRevolution]

This actually sounds like a lot of fun. Its to bad I live a couple hundred miles away. :(

[Comrade Rage]

I'd definitely go this year, but Megabus.com doesn't go that far, and I don't have the cash for a Greyhound or Amtrak. I'm going next year though.

How much is admission? Do you have to pay for each gun you shoot?

Please be sure to post a thread for this each year BTW.

(Not to be a stickler about questions, but you didn't post a link to the website.)

[spartan]

I love firearms!

But i live in the wussy UK where you can only get firearms if you have a license, which only rich ex-military trusted types or rich hunters can get, or illegally from organized criminals! :(

Also how does the AK feel in the 5.56x45 round?

Does it have more recoil or is it more controlable than the Soviets 5.45x39 round?

Have you shot the AK in 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 by any chance?

Are these rounds in your opinion better than the 5.56x45? (Especially in the AK series of guns).

I envy you so much! :lol:

[Comrade Rage]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2007 07:21 pm
I love firearms!

But i live in the wussy UK where you can only get firearms if you have a license, which only rich ex-military trusted types or rich hunters can get, or illegally from organized criminals! :(

Also how does the AK feel in 5.56x45?

Does it have more recoil or is it more controlable than the Soviets 5.45x39?

Have you shot the AK in 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 by any chance?

Are these rounds in your opinion better than the 5.56x45? (Especially in the AK series of guns).

I envy you so much! :lol:
The 7.62 is the NATO spec caliber right?

[spartan]

The 7.62 is the NATO spec caliber right?
7.62 NATO round has a different cartridge length (51mm) compared to the Soviets 7.62 round which has a length of 39mm.

The 7.62 NATO round is considered to be a full power rifle round which is ideally only suitable at best for self loading or semi automatic rifles or stationary machine guns as the round is virtually uncontrolable, due to the load of the round which is packed with too much propellant than needed for a fully automatic firearm, and gives bad accuracy, due to excessive recoil, in a hand held fully automatic weapon.

This was one of the main reasons why the M-14 in USA service was so shit in full auto mode and was replaced by the M16 which fired an intermediate round in the 5.56x45 which was suitable for controlable fully automatic fire in a hand held weapon just like the Soviets 7.62x39 round and their own 5mm round the 5.45x39.

The 7.62x39 round is making somewhat of a comeback as Russian troops in the recent Chechen conflicts were complaining about the poor performance and poor stopping power of their 5.45x39 round which for certain units was then replaced with the reliable old 7.62x39 round which no one complained about!

Also Venezuala has bought loads of AK-103's, which also takes the 7.62x39 round, which is a modern version of the classic AK-47.

The modern features of the AK-103 includes: The use of plastic when available instead of wood and metal as plastic is cheaper, easier and quicker to make than wooden or metal components and reduces overall weight as it is lighter, the ability to have a tactical light, laser sight, telescopic scope, sound suppressor and the GP-30 under barrel grenade launcher fiited to the gun and the AK-74's more modern flash suppressor/muzzle brake which is much better than the AK-47's old flash suppressor/muzzle brake.

[Dr Mindbender]

i've only ever fired a .22mm lee endfield (WW2 job) and an L-98 which is a single shot replica of the British army's SA-80 but the only way i got to do that was through the cadets before i became politically aware. I did fire a shotgun once, but that was only for clay pigeon shooting. Its very difficult!

Also Spartan, although it isnt easy to get shooting in the UK there are licensed gun clubs and ranges, i was once able to go shooting with my university shooting club but theyve been phasing it out ever since the Dunblane massacre.

[spartan]

i've only ever fired a .22mm lee endfield (WW2 job) and an L-98 which is a single shot replica of the British army's SA-80 but the only way i got to do that was through the cadets before i became politically aware. I did fire a shotgun once, but that was only for clay pigeon shooting. Its very difficult!
Lucky you!

I have never fired a real weapon in my life! :(

But i do know loads about firearms! :)

Also Spartan, although it isnt easy to get shooting in the UK there are licensed gun clubs and ranges, i was once able to go shooting with my university shooting club but theyve been phasing it out ever since the Dunblane massacre.
The irony is is that countries such as Switzerland which requires most of it's citizens to own a firearm, usually the current assault rifle with two boxes of ammunition which can only be opened when an emergency is declared if i remember correctly, is also one of the most crime free nations in the world!

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by spartan
Lucky you!

I have never fired a real weapon in my life! :(

Like i said you dont have to be a soldier, or a toff with loads of money to go shooting in the UK (although admittedly it probably helps :( ) there are shooting clubs scattered around, but its unlikely you'll get to fire AK-47's or mini-guns like they do in America.

[Faux Real]

I fired a shotgun, some semi-auto rifle w/a scope from the Vietnam era, and another semi-auto pistol in some woods (no animals were shot just bottles, i promise! :P ) up near the Oregon border 2 years ago.

That shotgun hurt my shoulder when it recoiled...

But boy rifles sure are fun, I was hitting my targets from quite a ways off. I wonder what firing a full auto weapon feels like.

...not that I advocate weaponry fetishism. -_-

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2007 02:55 am


...not that I advocate weaponry fetishism. -_-
why not? On the day the shit hits the fan, the counter revolutionaries arent going to be coming at us with feather dusters and harsh language you know.
:rolleyes:

[spartan]

why not? On the day the shit hits the fan, the counter revolutionaries arent going to be coming at us with feather dusters and harsh language you know.
:rolleyes:
Hopefully with my weapons knowledge i can be a big help to our revolutionary forces in the UK at the very least!

I could also possibly help in the designing of new weapons and stuff for the revolutionary armed forces weapons industry?

Eat your heart out Mikhail Kalashnikov because there is a new weapons designer in town: Spartan :lol:

[ellipsis]

sorry the website is copfirearms.com. admission is five bucks, ammo prices vary depending on what you want to shoot. last year it was 5 bucks for five rounds out of semi auto, 50 bucks for 3 clips of most full out rifle.

i have shot a semi auto AK in 762 x 39, and full auto in 5.45 not 5.56 like i said.

its every year, weekend before halloween

p.s.

god bless america

[Comrade Rage]

Excellent!

Expect to see me there next year. :ph34r:

[ellipsis]

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 25, 2007 11:28 pm
Excellent!

Expect to see me there next year. :ph34r:
they do this stuff all over the US. look online for one closer to you

[Axel1917]

I have always wanted to go to such an event, as I have never fired a full auto weapon (you have to be rich to afford legal full auto firearms over here in the USA. A typical full-auto AK-47 that would cost an army $300 or so costs a civilian with the proper federal paperwork a whopping $20K!) before. This event is too far away, but I think there is some range in a suburb near the Twin Cities that supposedly lets you rent a full-auto weapon for $60 per hour (I am assuming that you have to provide your own ammo.).

I do own firearms, but they are of course semi-auto or bolt action. My Kalashnikov (mine is a Romanian SAR-1.) is one of those civilian variants that lack full auto fire (I have heard that you can easily get them to fire in full auto with slight modification, but if the cops find out, that means 10 years in prison and/or a $100K fine from what I have heard.). I also have a scoped Ruger Mini-14 ranch rifle, two Yugoslavian SKS's (both M59/66 variants.), a GLOCK 17, a Nagant 1895 revolver, and a Mosin-Nagant M44 carbine (If you want a good plinking rifle that also feels like you are not shooting a toy-like .22 caliber, go for a Mosin-Nagant. If you look hard enough, you can find them (with the exception of the M91/30 PU sniper variant, i.e. the one used by Soviet snipers in WWII.) for around US $100 or less, and the 7.62mmX54R round is one of the cheapest military surplus rounds out there.).

I can get a full-auto like effect with my AKM by "bump firing" it from my hip, but you can't aim well doing that. Ammo isn't cheap (It keeps getting more expensive, especially .223 Remington/5.56X45mm NATO.), and I like to hit the targets properly.

I am going to have to find a suburb that has a rifle range, as some nearby ranges that are close to the Twin Cities only allow shotguns due to close proximity to city limits.

[ellipsis]

Originally posted by Axel1917+October 30, 2007 04:32 am--> (Axel1917 @ October 30, 2007 04:32 am) I have always wanted to go to such an event, as I have never fired a full auto weapon (you have to be rich to afford legal full auto firearms over here in the USA. A typical full-auto AK-47 that would cost an army $300 or so costs a civilian with the proper federal paperwork a whopping $20K!) before. This event is too far away, but I think there is some range in a suburb near the Twin Cities that supposedly lets you rent a full-auto weapon for $60 per hour (I am assuming that you have to provide your own ammo.).

I do own firearms, but they are of course semi-auto or bolt action. My Kalashnikov (mine is a Romanian SAR-1.) is one of those civilian variants that lack full auto fire (I have heard that you can easily get them to fire in full auto with slight modification, but if the cops find out, that means 10 years in prison and/or a $100K fine from what I have heard.). I also have a scoped Ruger Mini-14 ranch rifle, two Yugoslavian SKS's (both M59/66 variants.), a GLOCK 17, a Nagant 1895 revolver, and a Mosin-Nagant M44 carbine (If you want a good plinking rifle that also feels like you are not shooting a toy-like .22 caliber, go for a Mosin-Nagant. If you look hard enough, you can find them (with the exception of the M91/30 PU sniper variant, i.e. the one used by Soviet snipers in WWII.) for around US $100 or less, and the 7.62mmX54R round is one of the cheapest military surplus rounds out there.).

I can get a full-auto like effect with my AKM by "bump firing" it from my hip, but you can't aim well doing that. Ammo isn't cheap (It keeps getting more expensive, especially .223 Remington/5.56X45mm NATO.), and I like to hit the targets properly.

I am going to have to find a suburb that has a rifle range, as some nearby ranges that are close to the Twin Cities only allow shotguns due to close proximity to city limits. [/b]

[email protected] 30, 2007 04:32 am
This event is too far away, but I think there is some range in a suburb near the Twin Cities that supposedly lets you rent a full-auto weapon for $60 per hour (I am assuming that you have to provide your own ammo.).

I do own firearms, but they are of course semi-auto or bolt action. My Kalashnikov (mine is a Romanian SAR-1.) is one of those civilian variants that lack full auto fire (I have heard that you can easily get them to fire in full auto with slight modification, but if the cops find out, that means 10 years in prison and/or a $100K fine from what I have heard.). I also have a scoped Ruger Mini-14 ranch rifle, two Yugoslavian SKS's (both M59/66 variants.), a GLOCK 17, a Nagant 1895 revolver, and a Mosin-Nagant M44 carbine (If you want a good plinking rifle that also feels like you are not shooting a toy-like .22 caliber, go for a Mosin-Nagant. If you look hard enough, you can find them (with the exception of the M91/30 PU sniper variant, i.e. the one used by Soviet snipers in WWII.) for around US $100 or less, and the 7.62mmX54R round is one of the cheapest military surplus rounds out there.)

60 bucks an hour if you brought your own ammo and it was at a real range would be sick. i paid 45 bucks for 50 rounds in an MP5 in vegas. i looked around and it seemed pretty standard pricing.

thats quite the arsenal. you can buy ak kits through the mail and by or make the receiver (full auto if you wanna break the law) separately, my buddy is currently rebuilding a romanian army AK. Never shot a mini-14 but i here they are pretty. never a fan of glocks but you gotta have a sidearm. props on the SKSs, there was a militant in pakistan on the cover of the NYT yesterday:

Pakistan Militant with SKS (http://lh3.google.com/therevolutionscript/Ryyghxf77kI/AAAAAAAAAaQ/h2R5eIES_xw/02pakistan-600.jpg)

as for the nagants, never had the pleasure. I enjoy your soviet-bloc influenced collection
Me and my comrade in arms sort of own guns collectively, here is our arsenal:

Arsenal (http://lh4.google.com/therevolutionscript/RvCDEr39coI/AAAAAAAAAI8/zbIYcjNeoE4/DSC02573.JPG?imgmax=720)

from top to bottom, left to right: saiga .308, yugo sks, norinco sks, Marlin 925 in .22 WMR, mossy 500 18.5 inch with rear pistol grip, Ruger MK II, HK USP in .45. Not pictured, Savage 12 ga side by side.

I would have posted pictures in this post but they are "dynamic" which doesn't work...

[Dr Mindbender]

Irish paramilitary groups used to construct homemade automatic weapons. I dont know about the legalities or certainly how efficient they were but if you're prepared to try and outrun the arm of the law it would certainly be a way of avoiding the $20 K charge Axel1917 referred to.

[spartan]

Talking about home made weapons:Barrack Buster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrack_buster)

I also know how to make petrol bombs (Molotov Cocktails), pipe bombs and nail bombs.

But i obviously wont bother giving the details out on how to make these weapons on a forum :lol:

[ellipsis]

Originally posted by Ulster [email protected] 03, 2007 06:26 pm
Irish paramilitary groups used to construct homemade automatic weapons. I dont know about the legalities or certainly how efficient they were but if you're prepared to try and outrun the arm of the law it would certainly be a way of avoiding the $20 K charge Axel1917 referred to.
but like i was saying you can build your own AKs full auto, and you wouldn't have to fabricat eall of components. its not very hard, but then again its not exactly easy. but whats the use of building something you can use?

[Dr Mindbender]

Originally posted by theredson+November 04, 2007 03:19 pm--> (theredson @ November 04, 2007 03:19 pm)
Ulster [email protected] 03, 2007 06:26 pm
Irish paramilitary groups used to construct homemade automatic weapons. I dont know about the legalities or certainly how efficient they were but if you're prepared to try and outrun the arm of the law it would certainly be a way of avoiding the $20 K charge Axel1917 referred to.
but like i was saying you can build your own AKs full auto, and you wouldn't have to fabricat eall of components. its not very hard, but then again its not exactly easy. but whats the use of building something you can use? [/b]
building something i can use would be very useful, unless that is a grammatical error on your part.

[ellipsis]

Originally posted by Ulster Socialist+November 04, 2007 04:54 pm--> (Ulster Socialist @ November 04, 2007 04:54 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 03:19 pm

Ulster [email protected] 03, 2007 06:26 pm
Irish paramilitary groups used to construct homemade automatic weapons. I dont know about the legalities or certainly how efficient they were but if you're prepared to try and outrun the arm of the law it would certainly be a way of avoiding the $20 K charge Axel1917 referred to.
but like i was saying you can build your own AKs full auto, and you wouldn't have to fabricat eall of components. its not very hard, but then again its not exactly easy. but whats the use of building something you can use?
building something i can use would be very useful, unless that is a grammatical error on your part. [/b]
my bad *can't. i mean you could use it but all that automatic fire would attract some attention.

[Axel1917]

Originally posted by theredson+November 04, 2007 03:19 pm--> (theredson @ November 04, 2007 03:19 pm)
Ulster [email protected] 03, 2007 06:26 pm
Irish paramilitary groups used to construct homemade automatic weapons. I dont know about the legalities or certainly how efficient they were but if you're prepared to try and outrun the arm of the law it would certainly be a way of avoiding the $20 K charge Axel1917 referred to.
but like i was saying you can build your own AKs full auto, and you wouldn't have to fabricat eall of components. its not very hard, but then again its not exactly easy. but whats the use of building something you can use? [/b]
I have seen those kits you can use to build your own AK, but I have read that you need some rivets to assemble the gun, and these rivets are not exactly easy to find at times, nor are they cheap. I am not sure of the total validity of this, as I am going by what I have been told, but I do know that you need a special type of rivet to construct an AK.

Some nearby ranges do not seem too bad, but they do have restrictions on bullets that attract a magnet. Does anyone know what is meant by this - do they mean that the casing cannot attract a magnet, or just the slug? I prefer to purchase Russian ammunition, as it is cheaper (I don't reload cases.) than Western brass cased stuff (Russian ammo is steel cased.), and if the casing can't be magnetic, I will be screwed, as I have a good deal of Russian ammo lying around, and I don't want to buy that expensive Western made stuff. If it just means the slug, I should be fine, as my Russian stuff is lead core or soft tip lead. I know that Chinese 7.62X39mm has a magnetic steel core slug, but I don't buy that stuff, as it is pretty expensive and restricted in some areas, as it has an armor piercing quality. The Chinese ammo (perhaps not that newer NORINCO stuff, but the surplus stuff in the metal cans.) also has a corrosive primer, and that would be an annoyance, as I would have to really clean out the guns I fired that through. I only use corrosive ammo in my Mosin-Nagant because bolt actions are easy to clean (they don't have gas tubes or any of those wonderful places where powder gets into in semi-auto and full auto guns.).

*EDIT* Ugh. Crap. My 7.62X54R ammo would be restricted either way, as I probably have around 350-400+ rounds of Hungarian light ball in steel core slug in that caliber. I should see if other surplus 7.62X54R has steel or lead core (I do have some Russian light ball stuff, but I do not know the composition of the slug.).

*EDIT* Crap again! The Russian light ball 7.62X54R also has a steel core slug! :(

I will save my steel core stuff for an outdoor range that I can use. The problem is that after Nov. 18th, it is closed until June. :(

It would be nice to have a Romanian PSL (similar to a Dragunov in appearance, but different action inside) or a Yugoslavian M76 for long distance shooting, but those guns are not cheap - a Romanian PSL tends to sell for around $1000 to $1200, and a Yugoslavian M76 tends to sell for at least $2500.